Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Lusche on January 09, 2012, 10:03:57 PM
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... and they have supplied me with valuable information:
(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1940/confidental.jpg)
Looking for more secrets? This Saturday I will unveil the truth about Aces High 2011!
:noid
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The Stat Mongrel Strikes Again! :aok
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Blasphemy! :uhoh
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mmm pie.
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... and they have supplied me with valuable information:
Looking for more secrets? This Saturday I will unveil the truth about Aces High 2011!
:noid
Now you're in trouble! You'll have to work night an day to meet that deadline. :rofl
Fixed: "In two weeks."
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I like where this is going, I cant wait!
Although for our members that like stats but want to know more...
MK-84<---
Is it possible you at some point you provide us in detail about how you go about turning numbers into data? (my question belongs in the OC, but since you brought it up...)
I mean programs (I assume excel, and formulas)
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Looking for more secrets? This Saturday I will unveil the truth about Aces High 2011!
:banana:
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:O
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Many squirrels have perished bringing you that information........
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/argilla11/The_squirrel-spy.jpg)
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spy!
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Is it possible you at some point you provide us in detail about how you go about turning numbers into data? (my question belongs in the OC, but since you brought it up...)
I mean programs (I assume excel, and formulas)
It's actually very basic stuff, no formulas to speak of. Statistically versed players know for a long time that I don't do any real 'statistical analysis' - Simply becasue I do not understand it. I suck at maths. (I'm not kidding)
So for the most part it's just an elaborate form of copy & paste, then let the chart function of OpenOffice do the work.
Data is coming from the AH plane stats page (for pure plane & GV data and to get the pilot ID's), and the Pilot Score page (for key data like base captures, time spend in the different MA's, sortie profiles and so on).
The only 'creative' part is having the idea what to look for, how to get it (programming), interpreting the data and the presentation. That's all. :joystick:
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I upped and bailed a Yak9u 1532 times because I was afraid. I hope that didn't skew the numbers any
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:noid :noid :noid :noid Im Naked!!!! :old:
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(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/491/daddkev.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/814/daddkev.png/)
:noid
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(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/491/daddkev.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/814/daddkev.png/)
:noid
:rofl
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Lol, the spit-twits top the list with their EZ mode plane. Wish I could say I didn't see that one coming. When will the community nut-up and fly a plane that take some skill to fly in the LWMA :bhead?
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Lol, the spit-twits top the list with their EZ mode plane. Wish I could say I didn't see that one coming. When will the community nut-up and fly a plane that take some skill to fly in the LWMA :bhead?
Oh, the kid that no longer plays also jumps aboard the 'anti spit' bandwagon, eh?
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I think having an account continously for well over 3 years, and playing for close to 6 years entitles me to some whining.
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Lol, the spit-twits top the list with their EZ mode plane. Wish I could say I didn't see that one coming. When will the community nut-up and fly a plane that take some skill to fly in the LWMA :bhead?
Spits are actually fairly easy to fight.
1. Look for the pilots skill level. If you have any amount of patience, you can observe how your opponent flies his spit, look for weaknesses...
2. Which is all abouth the next step. The spitfire is good at everything...but not really great at anything. Likely you are in a plane that is either faster, or turns better, or climbs better, or has superior armament. A spitfire is also not exactly known for its "toughness" particurally regarding it's wings.
3. Know your enemy...Know exactly WHAT spit it is you're facing, there is a big difference between a spit9, 16, and a seafire (i suspect this has alot to do with the "invincible status" alot of pilots tend to give it. I.E. grouping the best feature each model has to add all into one.
4. Know you're own aircraft.
A F4U-D can deploy flaps and actually has an edge Vs a spit16 in an all out turning contest, a spit9 less so, but it is faster than both.
Any model zero has superior turn performance, and you would be surprised how many spit pilots forget this.
A Ki84 has the advantage in the vertical Vs anything except maybe a spit14.
Would a Spit pilot be intellegent to headon a n1k2 or a Fw190? more importantly, how likely is he going to try (i.e. #1) and can you use that to get an edge on the merge?
Like the Brewster, which also has a strange reputation as being "uber" They are actually fairly easy to beat. especially since they are very common aircraft in the MA, a pilot should have plenty of expierence facing them.
Planes that scare me...
109K4, it's fast, is often flown by expierenced pilots, it accellerates stupidly quick, climbs like a homesick angel, and is a total speed demon down low. If I screw up against one of these, I'm not going to likely get away. By far I hate to see these.
P38's, sounds stupid, they're such an easy target it's embarrasing. Except when after the first merge and yyou're going straight for the kill and you realize the pilot actually knows how to fly a 38 :uhoh They are such a strange aircraft that I havent figured out how to counter whatever it is the ace 38 pilots have figured out.
La7's are particurally nasty. It's one of the fastest planes in the game, owns the vertical, and is very maneuverable. Thank god its guns are so bad they would almost be better off tossing a rock at you. Someone experienced in these are my biggest threat. And it's very difficult to get away even if you start with the upper hand. Kind of like the K4, except this monster can turn!
Eseentially ANYTHING flown by an expeirenced pilot will waste me, but as for spits, hurri2c's Brewsters...(U know, the cheeter aircraft :noid) Not so much, unless I screwed up somewhere these really are not much of a threat.
3.
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Lol, the spit-twits top the list with their EZ mode plane. Wish I could say I didn't see that one coming. When will the community nut-up and fly a plane that take some skill to fly in the LWMA :bhead?
Apart from the fact that postings like that one are causing a reflex to abort the stats stuff all together.... :bhead
... you are actually wrong on several levels, most notably "the spit-twits top the list with their EZ mode plane". That's simply incorrect.
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Apart from the fact that postings like that one are causing a reflex to abort the stats stuff all together.... :bhead
... you are actually wrong on several levels, most notably "the spit-twits top the list with their EZ mode plane". That's simply incorrect.
NO!!!! Don't abort!!!!
Not that I thought you were going to, but Alot of us (TOTALLY ME) really really want to see your stats.
please dont worry about a bunch of pilots who need to explain away why it is they suck.
I want to see these stats to figure out what I can do about sucking :)
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Err Edit ^
I doubt I am the only one that looks forward to your numbers every year.
So....*crappy drumroll*
THANK YOU!!!
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NO!!!! Don't abort!!!!
Of course I don't. ;) After all, the main motivation for doing that stuff is not the community (sorry folks :D), but being very curious myself :banana:
It's just that I'm somewhat fed up with all that parroted nonsense... :rolleyes:
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Lusche, a great man once said, and I think you might benefit from this... BAH! Humbug.
Keep doin' what you do, Lord Lusche, King of Snails.
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Of course I don't. ;) After all, the main motivation for doing that stuff is not the community (sorry folks :D), but being very curious myself :banana:
It's just that I'm somewhat fed up with all that parroted nonsense... :rolleyes:
What like this? :D
"My country ALWAYS gets ganged!" (what do you think the other two countries are saying)
"I HATE THE HOARDEZZZZZZ!!!" (But I totally want to join that 30 person mission)
"SPITS ARE NEWBIE PLANEZZZZ" (yet we'll still try to turn them in our P47's..because we arn't newbs ourselves)
"NO WAY THAT PLANE COULD HAVE CAUGHT ME!!!!!!!!!!" (because E states, and acceleration have nothing to do with a planes absolute top speed)
"BOMTARDZZ!!!" (It's ok though, when defending a base, but not cool when I'm attacking one)
and..
and...
and....
"HO'ERS....RGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!" (not even going there...we all do it :aok"
* indignant look* You certainly would not mean THAT would you :eek:
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Spits are actually fairly easy to fight.
1. Look for the pilots skill level. If you have any amount of patience, you can observe how your opponent flies his spit, look for weaknesses...
2. Which is all abouth the next step. The spitfire is good at everything...but not really great at anything. Likely you are in a plane that is either faster, or turns better, or climbs better, or has superior armament. A spitfire is also not exactly known for its "toughness" particurally regarding it's wings.
3. Know your enemy...Know exactly WHAT spit it is you're facing, there is a big difference between a spit9, 16, and a seafire (i suspect this has alot to do with the "invincible status" alot of pilots tend to give it. I.E. grouping the best feature each model has to add all into one.
4. Know you're own aircraft.
A F4U-D can deploy flaps and actually has an edge Vs a spit16 in an all out turning contest, a spit9 less so, but it is faster than both.
Any model zero has superior turn performance, and you would be surprised how many spit pilots forget this.
A Ki84 has the advantage in the vertical Vs anything except maybe a spit14.
Would a Spit pilot be intellegent to headon a n1k2 or a Fw190? more importantly, how likely is he going to try (i.e. #1) and can you use that to get an edge on the merge?
Like the Brewster, which also has a strange reputation as being "uber" They are actually fairly easy to beat. especially since they are very common aircraft in the MA, a pilot should have plenty of expierence facing them.
Planes that scare me...
109K4, it's fast, is often flown by expierenced pilots, it accellerates stupidly quick, climbs like a homesick angel, and is a total speed demon down low. If I screw up against one of these, I'm not going to likely get away. By far I hate to see these.
P38's, sounds stupid, they're such an easy target it's embarrasing. Except when after the first merge and yyou're going straight for the kill and you realize the pilot actually knows how to fly a 38 :uhoh They are such a strange aircraft that I havent figured out how to counter whatever it is the ace 38 pilots have figured out.
La7's are particurally nasty. It's one of the fastest planes in the game, owns the vertical, and is very maneuverable. Thank god its guns are so bad they would almost be better off tossing a rock at you. Someone experienced in these are my biggest threat. And it's very difficult to get away even if you start with the upper hand. Kind of like the K4, except this monster can turn!
Eseentially ANYTHING flown by an expeirenced pilot will waste me, but as for spits, hurri2c's Brewsters...(U know, the cheeter aircraft :noid) Not so much, unless I screwed up somewhere these really are not much of a threat.
3.
READ: I will wait until the Brew or Spit gets tangled up with someone else, use my E and hammer him while he's busy.
I'll test your theory MK....you can fly any plane you want and I'll fly none of the Spits you mentioned...I'll fly the Spit V. Co-alt merges 25% fuel....I'm just curious if your assessment is correct. Bingo fuel ditch/crash is considered a loss...
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Is it Saturday yet?
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I'll test your theory MK....you can fly any plane you want and I'll fly none of the Spits you mentioned...I'll fly the Spit V. Co-alt merges 25% fuel....I'm just curious if your assessment is correct. Bingo fuel ditch/crash is considered a loss...
That's a bit unfair since a duel doesn't really reflect the MA environment, and the Spit V is a beast of a dueling plane. Under very restricted dueling rules, the Spit V holds serious advantages against K4s, La7s, F4Us, etc. This is particularly true if you know that the other guy in the F4U is very likely to be dumping speed/dropping flaps/using air brakes to gain quick angles after the merge. In the MA environment, most of the time you don't know if that guy's gonna hit the brakes or keep on going.
Spits aren't "fairly easy" to fight, but many planes are highly survivable against them. You might not get a kill against a well-flown Spit in a 109K4 in the MA, but the odds are very unlikely that a co-E or lower E Spit will turn the tables. The K4 should be able to dictate the fight, put the Spit on the defensive, and egress if necessary.
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Many squirrels have perished bringing you that information........
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/argilla11/The_squirrel-spy.jpg)
You lie, that squirrel does not have a camera. At least not one that I can see anyhow... :noid
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That's a bit unfair since a duel doesn't really reflect the MA environment, and the Spit V is a beast of a dueling plane. Under very restricted dueling rules, the Spit V holds serious advantages against K4s, La7s, F4Us, etc. This is particularly true if you know that the other guy in the F4U is very likely to be dumping speed/dropping flaps/using air brakes to gain quick angles after the merge. In the MA environment, most of the time you don't know if that guy's gonna hit the brakes or keep on going.
Spits aren't "fairly easy" to fight, but many planes are highly survivable against them. You might not get a kill against a well-flown Spit in a 109K4 in the MA, but the odds are very unlikely that a co-E or lower E Spit will turn the tables. The K4 should be able to dictate the fight, put the Spit on the defensive, and egress if necessary.
Levi,
My point precisely however, I was going to test the "know your opponent " part which you don't address. Furthermore, any plane is survivable in the MA....it requires that the pilot only engage when he has the advatange and disengage when he doesn't and I submit that any plane can be flown that way....which mitigates just about any advantage any plane has except planes with speed...because you cannot disengage from them unless they allow you to do so.
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mine can't ... if you can see me...I can not disengage hahahaha...
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That's a bit unfair since a duel doesn't really reflect the MA environment, and the Spit V is a beast of a dueling plane. Under very restricted dueling rules, the Spit V holds serious advantages against K4s, La7s, F4Us, etc. This is particularly true if you know that the other guy in the F4U is very likely to be dumping speed/dropping flaps/using air brakes to gain quick angles after the merge. In the MA environment, most of the time you don't know if that guy's gonna hit the brakes or keep on going.
Spits aren't "fairly easy" to fight, but many planes are highly survivable against them. You might not get a kill against a well-flown Spit in a 109K4 in the MA, but the odds are very unlikely that a co-E or lower E Spit will turn the tables. The K4 should be able to dictate the fight, put the Spit on the defensive, and egress if necessary.
I disagree with all the evaluations thus far...
* The single most important factor is the initial e states of the two engaging planes, against anyone worth their salt, the initial situation and 'e' states will make all the difference.
* In regards to the 'k4' vs the spit 16/8/9, if they enter at the same 'e' state, given equal sticks, the spit16 will win most of the time. Why? Guns with better trajectory, better turn, very similar climb rate. Furthermore, spit 16 accelerates faster in a dive, and if at merge they are co-e, well then the spit can get the shot off long before the k4 is at a higher e state if the k4 chooses to climb away to bnz.
* The analysis of the spit vs f4u is mostly true, except I would argue a well flown f4u doesn't need to be at the same 'e' state, again because of the guns. I have seen many 'expert' toon pilots in f4us make shots off from 600+ out with 50 cals, so as long as they can get their nose in a position to take a shot they can get you. Also, I would argue that the f4u-4 is the best prop plane in the game and will be able to maintain 'e' with the spits.
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I disagree with all the evaluations thus far...
* The single most important factor is the initial e states of the two engaging planes, against anyone worth their salt, the initial situation and 'e' states will make all the difference.
* In regards to the 'k4' vs the spit 16/8/9, if they enter at the same 'e' state, given equal sticks, the spit16 will win most of the time. Why? Guns with better trajectory, better turn, very similar climb rate. Furthermore, spit 16 accelerates faster in a dive, and if at merge they are co-e, well then the spit can get the shot off long before the k4 is at a higher e state if the k4 chooses to climb away to bnz.
* The analysis of the spit vs f4u is mostly true, except I would argue a well flown f4u doesn't need to be at the same 'e' state, again because of the guns. I have seen many 'expert' toon pilots in f4us make shots off from 600+ out with 50 cals, so as long as they can get their nose in a position to take a shot they can get you. Also, I would argue that the f4u-4 is the best prop plane in the game and will be able to maintain 'e' with the spits.
Ardy,
I agree with everything except the last assessment. If the Spit driver can get the dash 4 slow he'll own him for one reason: the 16 can accelerate faster and bring the vertical back into play. Dash 4 is much too heavy to get vertical quickly once it's slow. The trick is getting him to commit to getting slow and the good sticks won't do it.
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Many squirrels have perished bringing you that information........
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/argilla11/The_squirrel-spy.jpg)
(http://cmsimg.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=D9&Date=99999999&Category=NEWS10&ArtNo=110111018&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Fate-Secret-Squirrel-bombers-crews) :salute one of the Few.
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Getting a little nostalgic here but espionage is part of the real game. I know during Battle Over Germany I personally used some misinformation tactics. I don't know how well it worked overall though I've always felt Frame 2 worked to a charm. In any case, I just don't see too much of a problem, and it is almost impossible to stop.
For those that get a second account, nothing to do. For those who have buddies in another country and PM them, nothing to do. For those who side switch, 12 hour penalty? Considering the first two are impossible to stop side switchers should either get a 48 hour penalty for being boneheaded enough not to figure out the first two options, or only penalize them like 5 minutes so they can still play.
In any case, meh...
Boo
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NO!!!! Don't abort!!!!
Not that I thought you were going to, but Alot of us (TOTALLY ME) really really want to see your stats.
please dont worry about a bunch of pilots who need to explain away why it is they suck.
I want to see these stats to figure out what I can do about sucking :)
Really 84, a suckage accusation? I would have expected better from you.I ate spits for breakfast when I bothered to play it smart. But since I was just playing for fun, I always dove fight in, or spent most of my time plinking tanks from 2300yds, like a real man :airplane:.
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Really 84, a suckage accusation? I would have expected better from you.I ate spits for breakfast when I bothered to play it smart. But since I was just playing for fun, I always dove fight in, or spent most of my time plinking tanks from 2300yds, like a real man :airplane:.
Then why did you complain about them being so "EZ-Mode" if you can kill them so easily?
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Then why did you complain about them being so "EZ-Mode" if you can kill them so easily?
It is the common refrain of fans of German equipment. That was why Lusche said "It's just that I'm somewhat fed up with all that parroted nonsense...", because that is all that it is. It is pretty much a reflexive comment to anybody who is a fan of German stuff.
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Many squirrels have perished bringing you that information........
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc274/argilla11/The_squirrel-spy.jpg)
Many bothans died...
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I disagree with all the evaluations thus far...
* The single most important factor is the initial e states of the two engaging planes, against anyone worth their salt, the initial situation and 'e' states will make all the difference.
* In regards to the 'k4' vs the spit 16/8/9, if they enter at the same 'e' state, given equal sticks, the spit16 will win most of the time. Why? Guns with better trajectory, better turn, very similar climb rate. Furthermore, spit 16 accelerates faster in a dive, and if at merge they are co-e, well then the spit can get the shot off long before the k4 is at a higher e state if the k4 chooses to climb away to bnz.
* The analysis of the spit vs f4u is mostly true, except I would argue a well flown f4u doesn't need to be at the same 'e' state, again because of the guns. I have seen many 'expert' toon pilots in f4us make shots off from 600+ out with 50 cals, so as long as they can get their nose in a position to take a shot they can get you. Also, I would argue that the f4u-4 is the best prop plane in the game and will be able to maintain 'e' with the spits.
One basic way to sum this up it comes down to pilot skill level, one mistake is all that is needed.
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One basic way to sum this up it comes down to pilot skill level, one mistake is all that is needed.
:headscratch: or was this a troll attempt?
The best pilot in the world could be caught at a lower 'e' state because he can't control someone coming in above him.
For example, Pilot B gets killed by Pilot A, so knowing pilot A is still there fighting other planes without a possibility of disengaging, pilot B can up again, get above pilot A and fight from an advantaged e state. Infinite lives means infinite opportunities to reset the fight.
Furthermore, despite what some will tell you, the best human minds can only keep track of about 7 different things at once, so the opportunity for the above to happen is a regular occurrence.
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Then why did you complain about them being so "EZ-Mode" if you can kill them so easily?
Because they're easier to fly than a 109 or a 190, and they're easier to fly well in combat. They don't have quite the growth potential that the 109 or 190's do (IMO), but it takes less skill to fly decently in combat.
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Because they're easier to fly than a 109 or a 190, and they're easier to fly well in combat. They don't have quite the growth potential that the 109 or 190's do (IMO), but it takes less skill to fly decently in combat.
I believe that is an accurate depiction of history as well...its why the Germans didn't take England...same pilot in both planes and the Spit wins anyway, more often than not, so why complain about it being and easy ride. Hell, jump in a Brewster then...that's easier-mode and it is quickly becoming vogue with the base-defenders and it was so crappy we sold them to Wmaker's relatives, they completely remodeled the flight characteristics by removing crappy guns, putting in heavier guns and ammo, removing the pilot armor, removing the heavy CV landing gear and installing toothpicks with tires on them and vwalla!!! Magic, turny bird with K4 like diving tendencies without the compression!!!
Complaining about the Spitfires is like complaining about how the war turned out...BTW, have you flown the 51D lately? And people call the Spit easy-mode, lmao...I guess the a/c designers did their job...easy to fly, responsive, fast and dependable. Did you really want the allies to have crappy planes? lmao
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I believe that is an accurate depiction of history as well...its why the Germans didn't take England...same pilot in both planes and the Spit wins anyway, more often than not, so why complain about it being and easy ride. Hell, jump in a Brewster then...that's easier-mode and it is quickly becoming vogue with the base-defenders and it was so crappy we sold them to Wmaker's relatives, they completely remodeled the flight characteristics by removing crappy guns, putting in heavier guns and ammo, removing the pilot armor, removing the heavy CV landing gear and installing toothpicks with tires on them and vwalla!!! Magic, turny bird with K4 like diving tendencies without the compression!!!
Complaining about the Spitfires is like complaining about how the war turned out...BTW, have you flown the 51D lately? And people call the Spit easy-mode, lmao...I guess the a/c designers did their job...easy to fly, responsive, fast and dependable. Did you really want the allies to have crappy planes? lmao
Its also very important that in AH we fly planes taken out of their intended context. AH 'war' is all about <15k alt, turny burny, 25mile flights. WW2 had much more challenging contexts to fly in. A spit 16 could not fly from England to Germany and back. Also, the planes were intended to fight different planes... ie an f4u was never designed in mind to fight a spit9 nor was 109 designed to fight a zero etc....
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Its also very important that in AH we fly planes taken out of their intended context. AH 'war' is all about <15k alt, turny burny, 25mile flights. WW2 had much more challenging contexts to fly in. A spit 16 could not fly from England to Germany and back. Also, the planes were intended to fight different planes... ie an f4u was never designed in mind to fight a spit9 nor was 109 designed to fight a zero etc....
Agreed but a plane's performance envelope is its performance envelope...To complain about someone's skill level because they choose to fly a plane with attractive flight attributes is ridiculous. I submit for discussion that someone who can fly a K4 inside a Spit's flight envelope shouldn't be flying a Spit anyway....because he would kill EVERYTHING in sight!!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Agreed but a plane's performance envelope is its performance envelope...To complain about someone's skill level because they choose to fly a plane with attractive flight attributes is ridiculous. I submit for discussion that someone who can fly a K4 inside a Spit's flight envelope shouldn't be flying a Spit anyway....because he would kill EVERYTHING in sight!!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl
agreed.
Given that a spit's flight envelope fits our MA environment much better than many other planes. Its important to note that there is a huge difference between complaining about someone flying a spit and someone who is flying a spit to feel like they are 'better' than another pilot because they killed someone who chose to fight them with a plane less suited to the environment.
I think when most people complain about 'spit pilots' its because the other in some way rubbed in their face that they beat them in their spit..
example...
Pilot A = p40
Pilot B = spit 16
Pilot B kills pliot A.
Pilot B "I own you newb, go back to the TA"
Pilot A "youre in a easymode spit newb, come back to me when you learn how to fight without training wheels"
Lets face it, landing 5 kills in a p40 is much more challenging and requires greater skill than landing 5 kills in a spit 16.
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Kinda got blown out of proportions and turned into a sort of argument.... but point is that I don't like spitfires. They're easier to fly, are everywhere, and really shouldn't be flown if you're trying to push yourself :ahand.
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Easy is contextual and people ignore other types of "easy". The other day I was flying a Spitfire Mk VIII and a Spitfire Mk IX kept running from me, even when he started with the advantage. While my Spitfire Mk VIII was faster, it wasn't enough faster to overtake him before he could run to his base's AA. So I grabbed a Mosquito Mk VI, something that is not usually seen as "easy mode" and I killed him with ease because when he tried to run I simply ran him down. Compared to the Spitfire Mk VIII the Mosquito Mk VI was "easy mode" for that situation.
Many people just ignore things like speed when talking about a plane being easy or not. Speed is just a trait of the Bf109K-4, but they act like that doesn't make it easier in some situations, like it is just an incidental part of the Bf109K-4, while the Spitfire's turning ability isn't incidental, it is "easy mode". People focus on where their opponent is stronger than they are and forget where they are stronger than their opponent. Because the basic beginners move is to roll a plane onto its side and pull the stick back to turn as tight as you can planes that turn well are stigmatized even though the advantage of being able to turn well is largely eroded by a skilled opponent.
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Easy is contextual and people ignore other types of "easy". The other day I was flying a Spitfire Mk VIII and a Spitfire Mk IX kept running from me, even when he started with the advantage. While my Spitfire Mk VIII was faster, it wasn't enough faster to overtake him before he could run to his base's AA. So I grabbed a Mosquito Mk VI, something that is not usually seen as "easy mode" and I killed him with ease because when he tried to run I simply ran him down. Compared to the Spitfire Mk VIII the Mosquito Mk VI was "easy mode" for that situation.
Karnak, you are forgetting context again....
How long have you played this game?
How long had the other guy?
I bet you would have killed him in just about anything, provided you could get to him.
EDIT: More similarly skilled matched opponents, the plane better suited to the fight, would win.
But back to what I originally said, the initial 'e' state and position of the two planes is the single most important factor. A p40 could kill a p51, given the p40 arrived with enough alt, and dove with the sun to its back.
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Given equal e states and equal pilots, no advantage either way, I'd be willing to bet that
the guy who knew how to fly the mossie would win every time against the guy who knew how to fly the spit.
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Speed can help you escape combat, or initiate it, but once combat has started, speed isn't as much of an asset.
Once combat has started, the more important factors are manuverability, acceleration, and climb.
The spitfire is easier to fly in combat, because it requires less pilot skill to be sucessfull in combat, because it doesn't require you to know how to use climb, acceleration, roll, or anything other than turning to beat an opponent (as long as you aren't dumb and don't try turning with zekes or anything).
1) I don't like hordes, boring after a while, and they're the only source of a longer engagment
2) I don't like ho'ing, says virtually nothing about whos the better pilot
3) I don't like turning birds that when a less skilled pilot see you can out climb them, out roll them, or out fly them, they imediatly start the low down in the weeds turning defense
combine all 3 of those into one plane, and you get the spitfire. Easy to see why I don't like them, Sam I Am.
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Speed can help you escape combat, or initiate it, but once combat has started, speed isn't as much of an asset.
Once combat has started, the more important factors are manuverability, acceleration, and climb.
Of course, speed doesn't affect a single one of those variables you mention. Naw, of course not.
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I'ze can make a 109K turn real good. And I'ze can go up reel fast. Thit's why I'ze better then the stoopid Spitfire dummys.
Get back in the game and put up or shut up Son.
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Of course, speed doesn't affect a single one of those variables you mention. Naw, of course not.
I said its not as great of an asset, not that it isn't an asset. I swear, people don't pay attention to implyed meanings anymore :bhead.
As for Mr Melvin over there, you seem to be one of the standard issue BBS trolls, and you just messed up a well known quote. Now of to bed there boy.
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I see we have Krusty's prodige at hand here, boys.
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As for Mr. Melvin over there, you seem to be one of the standard issue BBS trolls, and you just messed up a well known quote. Now off to bed there boy.
Which quote did I mess up?
Was it the "put up or shut up" one?
Or was it the one where I called you out as the prototypical Luftwhining wiener boy that doesn't play the game, yet feels the need to interject with ridiculous ramblings?
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Which quote did I mess up?
Was it the "put up or shut up" one?
Or was it the one where I called you out as the prototypical Luftwhining wiener boy that doesn't play the game, yet feels the need to interject with ridiculous ramblings?
Im going with your option C. Was I correct?
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On the spit issue. I've decided I do not like it. Here is whay.
It is not very good when super slow.
It is not very good when super fast.
It has decent, but light armament. (Ammo load, lethality)
It is not a very strong airframe (in terms of dmg taken)
So what I see is an aircraft that is ok at everything, but not really great at anything. This (to me) makes flying it very very difficult. You must REALLY understand your situation, and your enemies to be good in it
Last month the spit16 had a total of kills of 15822, and losses of 13554 for a K/D of 1.17 This really does not put it anywhere near the top of its class for "uber fighters"
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On the lethality, it may have a lightish ammo load, but the Spitfire XIV and XVI both have firepower to match the P-47's in terms of guns.
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On the lethality, it may have a lightish ammo load, but the Spitfire XIV and XVI both have firepower to match the P-47's in terms of guns.
No they do not
Convergence is different
Ballistic properties is different
Effect from range shots is different
ammo load is different (which certainly would effect how one fires on a target)
Did you include stability?
Did you include speeds at which each aircraft typically fires its guns? Or it's range? or style of flying?
These planes can not be compared. as equals.
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Many years ago, someone produced an actual rank order of plane lethalities based on data that included muzzle velocities, ballistics, rates of fire, calibers, ammo loads, number of guns, etc. I don't remember who that was (Dinger maybe?), but it's pretty silly to argue subjective lethality when there's actual information out there that can show the relative lethality of German planes to British planes.
If I recall, they're closer than you think.
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No they do not
Convergence is different
Ballistic properties is different
Effect from range shots is different
ammo load is different (which certainly would effect how one fires on a target)
Did you include stability?
Did you include speeds at which each aircraft typically fires its guns? Or it's range? or style of flying?
These planes can not be compared. as equals.
True, the Spitfire produces more concentrated damage and so probably has greater firepower than the P-47 due to "six" of its "eight" .50s worth of firepower hitting two locations rather than bring spread out in six locations.
Ballistics are so close to the same as to be a non-factor at anything resembling realistic shooting ranges. Browning .50s and Hispano Mk IIs pair up better than any other two guns in a mixed armament situation.
Stability is fine on the Spitfire Mk XVI and the P-47s. I'll grant the Mk XIV has issues there. P-47s tend to be BnZ fighters, Spitfires can do either BnZ or TnB with aplomb and the range at which the player wants to fire is entirely up to them in both aircraft's cases.
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Oh man, I -LOVE- the graphs/charts you work up in here, Lusche.
They all make for fascinating reading. You have my thanks for
all the time and effort you put into 'em. <S>
Regards, Oddball