Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SAJ73 on January 12, 2012, 12:19:44 PM
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I wish it was possible to land next to a downed wingman who has survived the crash, and pick him up.
Say if he walked to within a few feet of the plane, and a button appeared up in left corner of screen JOIN PLANE. Much like it does when you get LOAD SUPPLIES when you are in a gv. And once onboard the plane he would be attached as joined. Once back at home base such a rescue could be rewarded with a small perk for the rescuer, and a safe return message for the passenger instead of being captured.
Just a little wish to sprite up the realism part. Not that I think it will be used much, but I think it should be possible to do it anyway..
And to take it further, a Jeep, M3 or even a goon could be used to pick up multiple people. As many as they can carry troops.. Say if an entire squad ditched out in enemy territory.. :rofl
I know most people would just end sortie and up a new plane, but if there was some small reward in the rescue.. And there is always those who just want to do it because that's what we would do IRL.. Right? :confused:
I don't know.. Discuss, throw inputs, add ideas.. :aok
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not to be the devil's advocate here, but what about the downed pilot's kills? would he still get credit (name in lights)?
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not to be the devil's advocate here, but what about the downed pilot's kills? would he still get credit (name in lights)?
No, I'd say that would be to push it.. I know, it's a difficult wish I come with. But there must surely be a way that would suit all parts?!
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Where would the downed pilot sit?
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Where would the downed pilot sit?
Where does people sit when they join your plane? They sit on your lap offcourse.. ;)
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The passengers view would be the same as the pilot's, only the passenger can't steer the plane. He can only be a passenger, and look around himself.
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One way of giving credit would perhaps be just the name in lights.. "SYSTEM: Rinzler rescued Essay73 in a P38J..." Just as an example.. :)
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Why? Why would the downed pilot wait half an hour to get picked up and picked up by something that there is no assurance will actually survive to get him home? Any talk of score or keeping perks can be dismissed as he lost the airplane already and that isn't coming off his record. So, what is his motivation to wait instead of just .efing and getting a new plane?
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Why? Why would the downed pilot wait half an hour to get picked up and picked up by something that there is no assurance will actually survive to get him home? Any talk of score or keeping perks can be dismissed as he lost the airplane already and that isn't coming off his record. So, what is his motivation to wait instead of just .efing and getting a new plane?
As much as I would like to see pilot rescue included, this ^^^ is the biggest problem working against it. Most people (especially in the MAs) come to AH to play a air combat game and have no interest in essentially doing nothing while waiting for possible rescue that may or may not be successfull.
Karnak, even though you might not support pilot rescue; you should still be able to see the motivation some players would have to sit and wait for a rescue. I would fly pilot rescue for the challenge and would wait for rescue for the thrill and the step closer to realism it would be. Personally, other than the time and effort it would divert from work on new planes and vehicles, I see no reason not to include pilot rescue into the game. The players who don't like it, wont use it and the players who do like it would; just like any/all the other features or play options available to the players of AH. Throw in a dedicated vox/text channel for pilot rescue (similar to the country, help or room channels) to help keep "please somebody come pick me up" requests from flooding other high use channels or from bugging those players who don't want anything to do with it. Do I think every plane should be able to pick up a downed pilot? - no. Would I have a blast trying to rescue downed pilots even if I fail? - Yes.
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what if the rescuer is dadkev, he flies naked. would you sit on his lap :uhoh.
semp
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Why? Why would the downed pilot wait half an hour to get picked up and picked up by something that there is no assurance will actually survive to get him home? Any talk of score or keeping perks can be dismissed as he lost the airplane already and that isn't coming off his record. So, what is his motivation to wait instead of just .efing and getting a new plane?
Why would a pilot up a plane when there is no assurance he will actually survive and get home.
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Karnak, even though you might not support pilot rescue; you should still be able to see the motivation some players would have to sit and wait for a rescue. I would fly pilot rescue for the challenge and would wait for rescue for the thrill and the step closer to realism it would be. Personally, other than the time and effort it would divert from work on new planes and vehicles, I see no reason not to include pilot rescue into the game. The players who don't like it, wont use it and the players who do like it would; just like any/all the other features or play options available to the players of AH. Throw in a dedicated vox/text channel for pilot rescue (similar to the country, help or room channels) to help keep "please somebody come pick me up" requests from flooding other high use channels or from bugging those players who don't want anything to do with it. Do I think every plane should be able to pick up a downed pilot? - no. Would I have a blast trying to rescue downed pilots even if I fail? - Yes.
I don't think such a system would be used enough anywhere, MAs or scenarios, to justify the work HiTech would have to do to create it. I think that most people when posting wishes never think beyond the "Golly gee, this sounds like it would be fun!" to the "What possible effects, positive and negative, would this change have on the game? aspect of game design. I do understand why they think it would be cool, but I'd be willing to bet a $20 bill that 90%+ of the people who post in support of such a thing would use it less than 5 times after the reality of it failed to live up to its excitement in their imaginations.
Why would a pilot up a plane when there is no assurance he will actually survive and get home.
To have fun and to try to shoot down other aircraft. Doing so does not involve sitting on a hillside for half an hour waiting for your rescuer to maybe show up.
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To have fun and to try to shoot down other aircraft. Doing so does not involve sitting on a hillside for half an hour waiting for your rescuer to maybe show up.
There's your problem Karnak.
You are trying to get people to conform to your perception of what fun is.
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There's your problem Karnak.
You are trying to get people to conform to your perception of what fun is.
No, I am being realistic. Very, very few people will find sitting on a hillside waiting for possible rescue in a video game to be fun. You're looking at it with your rose colored "Golly gee, this sounds like it would be fun!" glasses on and not trying to view it objectively.
My best shot at looking at it objectively can see a good bit of fun to be had in trying to sneak in there with a Jeep or Fi156 to pull a compatriot out. This is why I didn't ask why the rescuer would be doing this in my first post that started with "Why?". The rescuee is the person not having any fun in this scenario as all they have to do is get under some cover and then wait and wait and wait. It is too passive.
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Yeah it would be too passive for most, but not all. Similar situation is climbing a set of bombers to 30k. That is pretty dull, passive and completely optional; yet players still do that for their own reasons.
To be clear, I am not arguing the point about if a pilot rescue feature would justify the work it would take to include it; I happen to agree with you on that one, Karnak. I am just trying to point out that the arguments of "its too passive or boring so it shouldn't be included" or the undescriptive "why?" are poor reasons to strike down an idea on a wishlist forum. There are plenty of things to do already in game that are passive or slow or boring up to a certain event happening, just like being a rescuee would be until the event of the plane showing up; and the argument of "why?" can easily be countered with "why not?".
I do have to disagree with you about the small usage of such a feature in scenarios. I think that pilot rescue would see the most use in scenarios and FSO (especially when compaired to possible MA use), for the simple fact that scenarios and FSO are scored setups designed to push players to "win the battle" with just one life per frame, spread out over a set number of frames. Pilot rescue could easily be used to change that 25 point bonus (random point value) the other team got for shooting down your squad mate to just a 15 point bonus (random point value) because the pilot of the downed plane was able to return to friendly lines. As close as some of the final scores are (for FSO at least), I could see players putting in the effort to find success as both the rescuer and rescuee far more often than they would in the MAs.
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Yeah it would be too passive for most, but not all. Similar situation is climbing a set of bombers to 30k. That is pretty dull, passive and completely optional; yet players still do that for their own reasons.
At least in bombers the player has a goal and is working towards something. There would be no goal for sitting on a hillside other than the very minor switch of a capture to a bailed out. It is also probably not in the game's best interest to add an incentive to make players sit on a hillside rather than reup and join the fight again.
To be clear, I am not arguing the point about if a pilot rescue feature would justify the work it would take to include it; I happen to agree with you on that one, Karnak. I am just trying to point out that the arguments of "its too passive or boring so it shouldn't be included" or the undescriptive "why?" are poor reasons to strike down an idea on a wishlist forum. There are plenty of things to do already in game that are passive or slow or boring up to a certain event happening, just like being a rescuee would be until the event of the plane showing up; and the argument of "why?" can easily be countered with "why not?".
Arguing the merits of a wish is what the forum is for. "Why not" was answered in that it would take HiTech effort to create a system that wouldn't be used, effort that could better be put to other improvements. In addition, should somebody suggest it, modifications to the game to encourage people to use the rescue feature would, from most people's perspective, be bad for the game as it would take players out of the game for extended periods of time, players who would otherwise be involved in the fight.
I do have to disagree with you about the small usage of such a feature in scenarios. I think that pilot rescue would see the most use in scenarios and FSO (especially when compaired to possible MA use), for the simple fact that scenarios and FSO are scored setups designed to push players to "win the battle" with just one life per frame, spread out over a set number of frames. Pilot rescue could easily be used to change that 25 point bonus (random point value) the other team got for shooting down your squad mate to just a 15 point bonus (random point value) because the pilot of the downed plane was able to return to friendly lines. As close as some of the final scores are (for FSO at least), I could see players putting in the effort to find success as both the rescuer and rescuee far more often than they would in the MAs.
I disagree. I don't think that scenarios would add a "Everybody who didn't get shot down sit in the tower and wait while those that did get rescued" stage. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it happening.
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No, I am being realistic. Very, very few people will find sitting on a hillside waiting for possible rescue in a video game to be fun. You're looking at it with your rose colored "Golly gee, this sounds like it would be fun!" glasses on and not trying to view it objectively.
My best shot at looking at it objectively can see a good bit of fun to be had in trying to sneak in there with a Jeep or Fi156 to pull a compatriot out. This is why I didn't ask why the rescuer would be doing this in my first post that started with "Why?". The rescuee is the person not having any fun in this scenario as all they have to do is get under some cover and then wait and wait and wait. It is too passive.
i agree with karnak for a change. they only time it will be used is if you auger almost on top of the field. flying an airplane for 1 or 2 sectors and back to rescue some pilot so he can save his two perks will will be stupid.
hell if it gives perk points I would have my shade shemp auger next to the field, i would just get a jeep and collect beaucoup perks as he augers for the 1000 time. on second thought i would just switch to the bishops and and scoop up the vtards up as they auger almost on top of the field because their goons got shot down that would be like 100s of perkies right there.
semp
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i agree with karnak for a change. they only time it will be used is if you auger almost on top of the field. flying an airplane for 1 or 2 sectors and back to rescue some pilot so he can save his two perks will will be stupid.
hell if it gives perk points I would have my shade shemp auger next to the field, i would just get a jeep and collect beaucoup perks as he augers for the 1000 time. on second thought i would just switch to the bishops and and scoop up the vtards up as they auger almost on top of the field because their goons got shot down that would be like 100s of perkies right there.
semp
It wouldn't even save any perks. The pilot still lost his airplane and will not get the 25% "you landed successfully" bonus. All other situations, killed, captured and bailed, result in the guy getting 100% of the perks earned. It would not save the perks lost when their Me262 or B-29 was shot down as, once again, they lost the airplane. All it would do, realistically, is change a "captured" into a "bailed".
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It wouldn't even save any perks. The pilot still lost his airplane and will not get the 25% "you landed successfully" bonus. All other situations, killed, captured and bailed, result in the guy getting 100% of the perks earned. It would not save the perks lost when their Me262 or B-29 was shot down as, once again, they lost the airplane. All it would do, realistically, is change a "captured" into a "bailed".
but for score purposes it is the same thing.
semp
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I don't know about the MA but this would be a cool thing for events. Especially one that had a character role playing aspect, where if your character survives he keeps his rank, if not, you have to start over as a replacement pilot.
If the system tracked kills of and deaths in chutes more than it does now, you could have a designated rescue plane that had forward firing guns. One not elsewhere used in the event. Then you could "rescue" a downed pilot by shooting him.
That would prove that the rescuer found the pilot.
Then the logs would show so and so was killed in a chute by a B25C, and you would consider that pilot rescued.
Let's say your RPG event was single life. If you died, you could have a second life as a rescuer. Monitor a designated emergency channel and try to rescue downed pilots for some sort of points or award.
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At least in bombers the player has a goal and is working towards something. There would be no goal for sitting on a hillside other than the very minor switch of a capture to a bailed out. It is also probably not in the game's best interest to add an incentive to make players sit on a hillside rather than reup and join the fight again.
For some people that minor switch would be enough of a goal and a great opportunity to use the bathroom and grab another beer.
(this is for the abova and below quote) As far as the games best interst goes you are probably right on that one when considering the main arenas and the fact that most of HTC subscriptions come from players who spend most of their time in the MAs
Arguing the merits of a wish is what the forum is for. "Why not" was answered in that it would take HiTech effort to create a system that wouldn't be used, effort that could better be put to other improvements. In addition, should somebody suggest it, modifications to the game to encourage people to use the rescue feature would, from most people's perspective, be bad for the game as it would take players out of the game for extended periods of time, players who would otherwise be involved in the fight.
I agree that that arguing the merits of a wish is part of what this forum is for, I was just pointing out that your original post on the first page was little more than a "why would someone want this?" used in such a way as to try to discredit the OPs idea quickly. I wouldn't have made this point if the original argument against this thread was more of a "this is a bad idea and here are several reasons I think so" I have no problem with argument or debate.
I disagree. I don't think that scenarios would add a "Everybody who didn't get shot down sit in the tower and wait while those that did get rescued" stage. I could be wrong, but I just don't see it happening.
I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't suggesting that people who land safely would have to wait around while the others tried to rescue or be rescued. The way I see it working is like this: Squad alpha has 5 people flying in FSO tonight, during alphas mission 3 of their pilots are gunned down. One of these downed pilots in alpha squad or one of the pilots who safely rtb in alpha squade can reup in a storch or a c47 or a jeep (if close enough to a GV spawn point) and perform rescue duties. If the rescue pilot is shot down or killed then thats it for squad alpha, no more reups. Now the downed pilots of squad alpha can log off and take the capture or they can put out a call to another squad who still has a rescue bird/gv up. Any other pilots who land safely (friendly or enemy) are free to log off at anytime just like they can now. pilots also have the option of protecting the score they earned for their side by hunting the rescue birds down, and conversly the other side can rearm planes that safely rtb and try to protect the rescue ops. As far as run time goes I wouldn't change the run time for any of the FSOs or scenarios (at least in the begining) unless it became obviouse that more time was needed for some reason. Log books on the event would still close at whatever time listed by the event CMs and any planes still in the air at that time would be treated just like they are now (even rescue birds) when the log books are closed. In short, if you did rtb safely and have no desire to, or are not able to assist with rescue ops feel free to log off if you are done playing; just like it is now. Rescue ops would be optional and wouldn't have an effect on those players who don't want to participate in them, beyond maybe altering their earned score if a pilot they shot down is successfully rescued.
As far as MA use for pilot rescue goes. too much would have to be changed to make it a usable feature; including core game rules (scoring/perks); and these I think are the real reasons pilot rescue wont be included in the game.
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Limiting the discussion to the MA, how would it be good for the game to reward somebody for not participating in the game and instead sitting on a hill waiting for a taxi? The more people in the air or in vehicles on the ground the more stuff there is going on for other players to interact with. It strikes me that anything that was enough of a bonus to get people to sit and wait to be rescued would be bad for the game.
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This idea would be good for saving perk pionts also. +1
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or how about a C47 or troop transport. and i wish you could land your plane when outta gas and have a goon fly you some go-go juice
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This idea would be good for saving perk pionts also. +1
How would it save perk points? You lost the plane, you wouldn't get the perks back.
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Adding new playable features is counter to the wants of people who have self-limited themselves and thier gaming experience.
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Limiting the discussion to the MA, how would it be good for the game to reward somebody for not participating in the game and instead sitting on a hill waiting for a taxi? The more people in the air or in vehicles on the ground the more stuff there is going on for other players to interact with. It strikes me that anything that was enough of a bonus to get people to sit and wait to be rescued would be bad for the game.
nah, I can't really justify pilot rescue in the MA; but I have said that before. I do think the negative effect of players doing nothing while waiting for possible rescue would be small at best, simply because so few players would choose to wait for rescue over using end flight and reuping; but those few players who do wait will always be seen as a detriment to game play by those who measure their "fun factor" by the number of kills they get or the size of the furballs they can find.
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Players can only join you from the tower. To change that would likely require a major rewrite of the game, Hitech will correct me if I'm wrong, for a very minor benefit.
If you truly want to rescue a pilot just for the fun of it all you have to do is land next to them, wait for them to exit to the tower and join you, then fly them home.
If you want to improve your score there are other ways to do that which don't require rewriting the game code.
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nah, I can't really justify pilot rescue in the MA; but I have said that before. I do think the negative effect of players doing nothing while waiting for possible rescue would be small at best, simply because so few players would choose to wait for rescue over using end flight and reuping; but those few players who do wait will always be seen as a detriment to game play by those who measure their "fun factor" by the number of kills they get or the size of the furballs they can find.
I agree that it would be a small and negligible number unless, as some have advocated, significant rewards were added. My position is that without those rewards to make people use the system the system would be a waste of programming time and with those rewards the system would be bad for the game. If only a few people were using it then it wouldn't matter, just be a waste of effort by HTC.
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I agree that it would be a small and negligible number unless, as some have advocated, significant rewards were added. My position is that without those rewards to make people use the system the system would be a waste of programming time and with those rewards the system would be bad for the game. If only a few people were using it then it wouldn't matter, just be a waste of effort by HTC.
If we are still just talking about the MAs, then agreed on all points.
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Players can only join you from the tower. To change that would likely require a major rewrite of the game, Hitech will correct me if I'm wrong, for a very minor benefit.
If you truly want to rescue a pilot just for the fun of it all you have to do is land next to them, wait for them to exit to the tower and join you, then fly them home.
If you want to improve your score there are other ways to do that which don't require rewriting the game code.
you can join as a gunner from the tower.
semp
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You can join any aircraft as an observer. There doesn't need to be a gunner's position.
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but for score purposes it is the same thing.
semp
zing
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I think it would be kinda cool to pull the dumbo duty near a furball, When I land, start offloading all the guys who's plane didn't make it back.. Their kills start showing up as they step off the dumbo.. See a long column of kills landed in the buffer, you know the Dumbo made it home..
I think Dumbo and Rescap would be a cool addition to the game.. Some players don't care about gamedeath.. And others don't like dying.. This would be an option, instead of disappearing into the vast pacific, never to be seen again..
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I think it would be kinda cool to pull the dumbo duty near a furball, When I land, start offloading all the guys who's plane didn't make it back.. Their kills start showing up as they step off the dumbo.. See a long column of kills landed in the buffer, you know the Dumbo made it home..
I think Dumbo and Rescap would be a cool addition to the game.. Some players don't care about gamedeath.. And others don't like dying.. This would be an option, instead of disappearing into the vast pacific, never to be seen again..
pilots who bailed cannot land successfully, and a bail/ditch is the same thing for scoring purposes it only makes a difference on the perks earned I believe.
second of all do you see anybody actually opening their chute when they bail? you seen anybody not shooting at the chute when it opens :D. you going with the assumption that a pilot will open the chute, then nobody will kill the chute, then that the enemy fighters would all leave and then you can go in a pick up the pilots and come back untouched. wont happen very often.
semp
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I think it would be kinda cool to pull the dumbo duty near a furball, When I land, start offloading all the guys who's plane didn't make it back.. Their kills start showing up as they step off the dumbo.. See a long column of kills landed in the buffer, you know the Dumbo made it home..
I think Dumbo and Rescap would be a cool addition to the game.. Some players don't care about gamedeath.. And others don't like dying.. This would be an option, instead of disappearing into the vast pacific, never to be seen again..
As the rescued pilots would still have been shot down and lost their aircraft, there is no reason to think that HTC would allow them to "land successfully."
Any bonus large enough to make it worth it to those pilots, having been shot down, to sit on a hillside and wait for a slow vulnerable taxi to maybe take them home instead of .efing and rejoining the fight would be bad for the game.
pilots who bailed cannot land successfully, and a bail/ditch is the same thing for scoring purposes it only makes a difference on the perks earned I believe.
It makes no difference for perks. In both cases you earn 100% of the perks you had gotten prior to being shot down. You get 125% of the perks you earned if you land successfully.
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I like the idea, except for one big problem
the channel flooded with "pick me up, pick me up"
This slows down gameplay, and would be an annoyance on country chnl.
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As the rescued pilots would still have been shot down and lost their aircraft, there is no reason to think that HTC would allow them to "land successfully."
Well then, I guess that the oldest of Aviation wisdom just doesn't apply to Aces High huh???
"Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!" And if I am not mistaken, gettin fished out of the drink didn't nullify any medals, kills, or anything else for the pilot.. Just another act of heroic endurance and perseverance.. Atta boys all around!
Oops forgot to move the cursor before I started typing.. Oh well..
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Well then, I guess that the oldest of Aviation wisdom just doesn't apply to Aces High huh???
"Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!" And if I am not mistaken, gettin fished out of the drink didn't nullify any medals, kills, or anything else for the pilot.. Just another act of heroic endurance and perseverance.. Atta boys all around!
AH is a game and has to have scoring rules. Reality is not a game and does not need clear scoring rules. In reality, pulling a pilot out of the drink or from behind enemy lines allows him to rejoin the fight. In AH doing so will delay his rejoining the fight because he could have just instantly been back at the tower and back in the game.
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I know what you are sayin Karnak, I'm just looking for something new and different in the game..
The new doodads in game are cool, but haven't resparked my interest as I had hoped..
I hunger for new tactical problems to be solved..
New combat scenarios, new processes to work through,
Something NEW TO DO! But it's just not here, bummer..
While I was gone, game got some great new "Items"..
Outstanding work on the new tank controls and gunsights!
But alas, there is really only the same old objectives..
Still waiting patiently.. :bhead :lol
Hell, the way things are going, I may not ever get back to this game again..
I know, who cares right, lol!
PAK
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Wanting new things is fine, I have posted such requests too, but we have to do our best to be sure that the new thing we ask for will be good for the game. Making it something that will be used would be good too.
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Very good idea!