Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: oakranger on January 13, 2012, 04:19:05 PM

Title: Do-335
Post by: oakranger on January 13, 2012, 04:19:05 PM
I have been reading up a little bit on the Do-335. Quite impressive machinery of its time. However, I wonder how are the thrust works between the two engines. Do they work together by running on the same % thrust given by the pilot? Or does the anterior engine gives 80% thrust while the posterior engine gives 75% thrust. I understand that the anterior practice on the "pull" motion while the posterior practice on the "push" motion.  Just wondering how they work together in that setup.
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 13, 2012, 08:11:03 PM
I have been reading up a little bit on the Do-335. Quite impressive machinery of its time. However, I wonder how are the thrust works between the two engines. Do they work together by running on the same % thrust given by the pilot? Or does the anterior engine gives 80% thrust while the posterior engine gives 75% thrust. I understand that the anterior practice on the "pull" motion while the posterior practice on the "push" motion.  Just wondering how they work together in that setup.

I'm guessing they operate at the same power settings.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: MK-84 on January 13, 2012, 08:49:03 PM
I'm guessing they operate at the same power settings.

ack-ack

Wouldnt the thrust generated still be different due to the location of the props?
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: MachFly on January 13, 2012, 08:51:26 PM
I assume it should be the same. I don't see a reason to run those engines at a different power settings.
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: oakranger on January 13, 2012, 11:31:52 PM
Wouldnt the thrust generated still be different due to the location of the props?

Both engine are the same from the information I read (Powerplant: 2× Daimler-Benz DB 603A 12-cylinder inverted engines, 1,287 kW, 1,726 hp (1,750 PS) each) hoping that somebody will answer that question.

I assume it should be the same. I don't see a reason to run those engines at a different power settings.

I would guess that both engines respond to a single throttle control. 
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: mthrockmor on January 13, 2012, 11:42:48 PM
Engines rotated opposite so torque didn't 'auto-gyro' them into the ground?

Boo
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: oakranger on January 14, 2012, 12:10:09 AM
Engines rotated opposite so torque didn't 'auto-gyro' them into the ground?

Boo

Never thought of that, thanks for sharing on that fact of information.
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: MachFly on January 14, 2012, 12:17:25 AM
I would guess that both engines respond to a single throttle control.  

That can't be right. If you need to throttle down one of the engine for what ever reason you need a have the capability. Just like all 2 engine aircraft of the time it's supposed to have 2 throttle levers, 2 prop pitch levels, and 2 mixtures levels.
Most of the time the engine will run at the same power settings but what if one of the engines starts overheating and you need to reduce the power. You can have two things to do that, direct control of each engine or an advanced computer that was capable of it. 190 had a mechanical computer that would do that but if wasn't very precise, when flying in formation it was not easy for them to set the power the same way. I'm not aware of any other aircraft of that time that had one throttle level. 
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: wells on January 14, 2012, 12:20:29 AM
There were two sets of engine controls, like any other multi-engined airplane.  The rear propeller was smaller ( 3.3 m vs 3.5 m ), presumably due to ground clearance considerations.  The airplane had greater performance on the rear engine than the front engine ( single engine flight ).  There are a couple of reasons for this,

A.  No additional drag over the airframe from the propwash
B.  Airflow entering the prop is slowed somewhat from airframe drag, resulting in greater thrust at any given speed

see "Wings of the Luftwaffe" by Eric Brown
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: oakranger on January 14, 2012, 12:32:53 AM
There were two sets of engine controls, like any other multi-engined airplane.  The rear propeller was smaller ( 3.3 m vs 3.5 m ), presumably due to ground clearance considerations.  The airplane had greater performance on the rear engine than the front engine ( single engine flight ).  There are a couple of reasons for this,

A.  No additional drag over the airframe from the propwash
B.  Airflow entering the prop is slowed somewhat from airframe drag, resulting in greater thrust at any given speed

see "Wings of the Luftwaffe" by Eric Brown

Ah, you gave the answer I was looking for. Makes sense now. :salute

So, both posterior and anterior engines are the same, but the posterior had greater performance for the two reasons?
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: wells on January 14, 2012, 12:59:05 AM
This is strictly from a theoretical standpoint, but,

With both engines running, the front propeller probably gives more thrust, and the proportion will vary with speed, becoming almost equal at high speeds.  This is because the rear propeller is operating in the propwash from the front propeller.  Calculations give the following at sea level,

Static conditions ( 1375 hp )
front propeller ~ 46300 N thrust ( 62.5% )
rear propeller ~ 27800 N thrust ( 37.5% )

360 mph ( 1375 hp )
front propeller ~ 10020 N ( 50.4% )
rear propeller ~ 9850 N ( 49.6 % )

Greater performance was reported from the rear engine, when the front engine was shut down, as compared to the other way around.  To what degree, I don't know.
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on January 14, 2012, 01:40:45 AM
I read that early 335 models were prone to very high vibrations, i cant remember how they fixed it,but they did. And the aircraft was able to be made into a useful tool for its time.


For the size weight and firepower it could have, the dang thing was faaast. :rock
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: lyric1 on January 14, 2012, 02:07:27 AM

I would guess that both engines respond to a single throttle control. 

Not Sure it looks like two bottom left corner?

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW10/Do335_V3-78af+s.jpg

http://www.luftwaffephotos.com/ldo3355.htm
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: Seadog36 on January 14, 2012, 05:45:12 AM

Not Sure it looks like two bottom left corner?

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW10/Do335_V3-78af+s.jpg

http://www.luftwaffephotos.com/ldo3355.htm

Interesting website lyric :aok
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: MK-84 on January 14, 2012, 05:55:53 AM
This is strictly from a theoretical standpoint, but,

With both engines running, the front propeller probably gives more thrust, and the proportion will vary with speed, becoming almost equal at high speeds.  This is because the rear propeller is operating in the propwash from the front propeller.  Calculations give the following at sea level,

Static conditions ( 1375 hp )
front propeller ~ 46300 N thrust ( 62.5% )
rear propeller ~ 27800 N thrust ( 37.5% )

360 mph ( 1375 hp )
front propeller ~ 10020 N ( 50.4% )

Awesome, thats exactly what I was wondering
rear propeller ~ 9850 N ( 49.6 % )

Greater performance was reported from the rear engine, when the front engine was shut down, as compared to the other way around.  To what degree, I don't know.
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: icepac on January 14, 2012, 08:21:51 AM
(http://members.fortunecity.com/skymaster/n1cd.jpg)
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: wells on January 14, 2012, 01:37:49 PM
This is strictly from a theoretical standpoint, but,

With both engines running, the front propeller probably gives more thrust, and the proportion will vary with speed, becoming almost equal at high speeds.  This is because the rear propeller is operating in the propwash from the front propeller.  Calculations give the following at sea level,

Static conditions ( 1375 hp )
front propeller ~ 46300 N thrust ( 62.5% )
rear propeller ~ 27800 N thrust ( 37.5% )

360 mph ( 1375 hp )
front propeller ~ 10020 N ( 50.4% )
rear propeller ~ 9850 N ( 49.6 % )

Greater performance was reported from the rear engine, when the front engine was shut down, as compared to the other way around.  To what degree, I don't know.

The above figures are actually doubled as I had set 2 engines for each case.  Corrected values are,

static
front ~ 23150 N ( 67.2 % )
rear ~ 11300 N ( 32.8% )

360 mph
front ~ 5010 N ( 50.4% )
rear ~ 4930 N ( 49.6% )
Title: Re: Do-335
Post by: oakranger on January 14, 2012, 04:10:16 PM

Not Sure it looks like two bottom left corner?

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW10/Do335_V3-78af+s.jpg

http://www.luftwaffephotos.com/ldo3355.htm
Thanks.  Sure looks like a advance equipment from the looks of the cockpit.