Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on January 22, 2012, 09:42:54 AM
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:salute :pray
http://news.yahoo.com/fired-penn-state-coach-joe-paterno-dead-85-151950813--spt.html (http://news.yahoo.com/fired-penn-state-coach-joe-paterno-dead-85-151950813--spt.html)
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Rest easy JoePa.
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:cheers: :rock :x :banana: :lol :rofl
Rot in hell you useless p.o.s.
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:cheers: :rock :x :banana: :lol :rofl
Rot in hell you useless p.o.s.
Get your facts straight handsomehunk. Joe pa never touched a kid in that way. He did what he had to. You look like a complete love muffin by your comment. Go look and how his players talked about. EVEN after he was fired, he gave ONE MILLION DOLLARS to the unversity.
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Get your facts straight handsomehunk. Joe pa never touched a kid in that way. He did what he had to. You look like a complete love muffin by your comment. Go look and how his players talked about. EVEN after he was fired, he gave ONE MILLION DOLLARS to the unversity.
Yeah he just repeatedly covered for a guy he knew to be a serial pederast. Other then that he was a great guy.
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:cheers: :rock :x :banana: :lol :rofl
Rot in hell you useless p.o.s.
Uncalled for, JoePa was a straight up man. He was caught up in everything
that's happened. Penn State was headhunting, Joe was easy target near the top.
He did a lot for the University, nothing alleged or proven wrong.
He did no covering for anyone, he told his bosses what he knew, expecting them to act.
BTW WTF is a Pederast?
:cheers: Oz
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You guys defending him are pathetic. Why did he not call the cops immediately? Hopefully it wont be one of your kids in a similar situation. F JoPa and all you supporters. I hope it was a slow painful death.
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Get your facts straight handsomehunk. Joe pa never touched a kid in that way. He did what he had to. You look like a complete love muffin by your comment. Go look and how his players talked about. EVEN after he was fired, he gave ONE MILLION DOLLARS to the unversity.
He put the football program ahead of a 10yr old being raped.. standup guy you are defending.
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:cheers: :rock :x :banana: :lol :rofl
Rot in hell you useless p.o.s.
This.
He was an enabler worried about "image".
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Yeah he just repeatedly covered for a guy he knew to be a serial pederast. Other then that he was a great guy.
No he did not cover, he turned it over to people that were supposed to do their job. Joe did his job. Could he have done more..yes, but did he tell the President, AD, and campus Police, he sure did.
He put the football program ahead of a 10yr old being raped.. standup guy you are defending.
Yea, check the facts, he turned it over to people that were supposed to handle situations like these.
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This.
He was an enabler worried about "image".
Yea, he defiantly enabled. :rolleyes:
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Uncalled for, JoePa was a straight up man. He was caught up in everything
that's happened. Penn State was headhunting, Joe was easy target near the top.
He did a lot for the University, nothing alleged or proven wrong.
He did no covering for anyone, he told his bosses what he knew, expecting them to act.
BTW WTF is a Pederast? :cheers: Oz
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pederast
Plenty alledged. Nothing proven. That will take years as more and more victims come out. Nobody at Penn State was head Hunting. In fact they, and JoePa, were all obstructing justice in covering for this scumbag. Then ole JoePa, smelling the Heat coming round the corner, put his house and all his money into his wifes name so none of the victims could get any of it when they started sueing. Maybe ole JoePa should have made sure the Police found out about this rat instead of just covering his rump and telling his Boss. Nobody ever told the Campus Police.
And in 2002, Kelly said, a graduate assistant saw Sandusky sexually assault a naked boy, estimated to be about 10 years old, in a team locker room shower. The grad student and his father reported what he saw to Paterno, who immediately told Curley, prosecutors said.
The two school administrators fielded the complaint from the graduate assistant and from Paterno. Two people familiar with the investigation confirmed the identity of the graduate assistant as Mike McQueary, now the team's wide receivers coach and recruiting coordinator. The two spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the names in the grand jury report haven't been publicly released.
McQueary's father, John, said his son was out of town on a recruiting trip Sunday, and he declined to comment about the case or say whether they were the two named in the grand jury report.
"I know it's online, and I know it's available," John McQueary told the AP. "I have gone out of my way not to read it for a number of reasons."
Curley and Schultz met with the graduate assistant about a week and a half after the attack was reported, Kelly said.
"Despite a powerful eyewitness statement about the sexual assault of a child, this incident was not reported to any law enforcement or child protective agency, as required by Pennsylvania law," Kelly said.
There's no indication that anyone at school attempted to find the boy or follow up with the witness, she said.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/11/07/penn-state-officials-head-to-court-amid-cover-up-allegations-sex-abuse-scandal/#ixzz1kCwBanNy
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I have alot more respect for Joe than I do for you know-it-all losers castigating a man for "not doing enough".
Apparently there are no sex offenders living in your neighborhoods....why don't YOU do more?
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I have alot more respect for Joe than I do for you know-it-all losers castigating a man for "not doing enough".
Apparently there are no sex offenders living in your neighborhoods....why don't YOU do more?
There is a very large difference between living in a neighborhood where somebody is a convicted sex offender who to the best of everyone's knowledge has not broken the law since being released and not immediately calling the police when a molestation is brought to your attention. If you know that the sex offender in your neighborhood is offending again and you don't call the police then you'd have a similar situation.
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Yeah he just repeatedly covered for a guy he knew to be a serial pederast. Other then that he was a great guy.
This.
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Silver, you are a grade A dirtball.
R.I.P Joe Paterno, one of the best coaches to ever play the game. :angel: :salute
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Does being a great icon and role model to many, oversee that he did not notify police of known sex abuse?
I don't care how great of a coach he was... I do not care what he did for the University... am I doubting he did not care for those students? Of course not... what am doubting are his morals... you know sex abuse is going on and you do not notify authorities... you are covering up something that you do not want the public to know, regardless if he actually did anything... if you knew your kid was being abused and his/her coach did not tell the police... how would you feel then?
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BTW WTF is a Pederast?
:cheers: Oz
Shut the F*** up Donny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQxM9XEyQPI
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Looks like football was all he was living for.
Like a lot of other retirees you see they tend to die very shortly after they stop working.
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You would think a person who spent his life and career helping and building kids athletic goals would understand that the college president is not a law enforcement official. You would think that a person of those same credentials would make sure that more was done other than to ban him from the stadium facility. You would think that a person who spent his life in and around educational facilities would understand that not insuring the safety of children is the equivalent to facilitation of acts against children when confronted with a direct eye witness account from a trusted employee and assist in making sure that the PROPER LAW ENFORCEMENT authorities were contacted rather than just treating it like a rumor to be passed on to the boss. You'd think that an educator would place the welfare of children ahead of the reputation of a sports facility and help to safeguard that reputation by making sure nothing like that was tolerated in or around that sports program. You'd think that at the least that the same educator would take concrete steps to make sure that there were no employees of that sports program involved in abusing children to maintain either employment or ability to enter the grounds of that educational facility or have anything to do with the facility in any capacity.
Old Joe let the school down, the program down, his reputation down and worse enabled the continued abuse of children by a pedophile by not taking the proper, reasonable or effective action to stop it or even to investigate it. Because of his lack of action that is the legacy he left behind. He may have been the worlds greatest coach but he let that ego trip prevent him from taking action to protect children. In other words, he tripped off of the bridge of the school and fell into a lifeboat and did not do what he was supposed to have done. He wasn't the only one either. :mad:
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Rest in peace, Joe.
He was a good man, he is not deserving of any of the negative BS in this thread, show some respect.
Show some respect for yourselves, as well.
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Rest in peace, Joe.
He was a good man, he is not deserving of any of the negative BS in this thread, show some respect.
Show some respect for yourselves, as well.
He didn't notify police of known sex abuse.... sorry, but "respect" is not in my vocabulary for people like that.
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Even if he DID enable, or overlook a sex abuse situation, flaming him and bringing all this crap back up now that he has passed is just plain disrespectful.
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Silver, you are a grade A dirtball.
R.I.P Joe Paterno, one of the best coaches to ever play the game. :angel: :salute
you can bet your sorry butt, this "grade a dirtball" would have called the police ASAP. you clearly don't have children or your opinion may be different. no matter what he did in his life he is a pos for sweeping this under the rug.
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Rest in peace, Joe.
He was a good man, he is not deserving of any of the negative BS in this thread, show some respect.
Show some respect for yourselves, as well.
He deserves every single word. What wasn't deserved was what happened to those boys in the shower at Pedd State.
How about showing them some respect?
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I don't have a horse in this race, not being a sports fan I didn't follow the whole story as close as many. However these kind of statements...
Even if he DID enable, or overlook a sex abuse situation, flaming him and bringing all this crap back up now that he has passed is just plain disrespectful.
Just annoy the crap outta me. Respect has to be earned, and death does nothing toward earning it. If someone hasn't earned my respect in their life, then their death does nothing to change my opinion of them.
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Lots of assuming individuals in this thread, and lots of people who know the entire story and all the facts and all that there is to know about the allegations, it even appears as if there were people in this thread that were there in the showers at the time of the abuse, and in the AD's office when Joe was there as well.
You dont show the victims respect, buy verbally jumping on the bandwagon and proclaiming someone's guilt, or lack of innocence, etc, especially if you were not there. Typical ignorance and typical pathetic-ness abounds in here. For shame for shame.
Let the good man rest in peace and start another thread if you want to try and lynch a person who is dead for something he allegedly did or did not do, and wasn't even on trial for.
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Gone. Hopefully forgotten soon.
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Lots of assuming individuals in this thread, and lots of people who know the entire story and all the facts and all that there is to know about the allegations, it even appears as if there were people in this thread that were there in the showers at the time of the abuse, and in the AD's office when Joe was there as well.
You dont show the victims respect, buy verbally jumping on the bandwagon and proclaiming someone's guilt, or lack of innocence, etc, especially if you were not there. Typical ignorance and typical pathetic-ness abounds in here. For shame for shame.
Let the good man rest in peace and start another thread if you want to try and lynch a person who is dead for something he allegedly did or did not do, and wasn't even on trial for.
Just because your not convicted or put on trail does not mean he didn't call the police when he knew all about it...
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Lots of assuming individuals in this thread, and lots of people who know the entire story and all the facts and all that there is to know about the allegations, it even appears as if there were people in this thread that were there in the showers at the time of the abuse, and in the AD's office when Joe was there as well.
You dont show the victims respect, buy verbally jumping on the bandwagon and proclaiming someone's guilt, or lack of innocence, etc, especially if you were not there. Typical ignorance and typical pathetic-ness abounds in here. For shame for shame.
Let the good man rest in peace and start another thread if you want to try and lynch a person who is dead for something he allegedly did or did not do, and wasn't even on trial for.
We know because we can read:http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/22/justice/pennsylvania-coach-abuse-timeline/index.html
Giving a man "God" status because he coached a sports team is ignorant and pathetic. Ridiculing him for allowing a pedophile to active abuse kids because he don't want bad press is called for.
Do you have any quotes from the press conference he called after first discovering Sandusky was a child rapist in 2002? Paterno brought this on himself.
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I have alot more respect for Joe than I do for you know-it-all losers castigating a man for "not doing enough".
Apparently there are no sex offenders living in your neighborhoods....why don't YOU do more?
Actually the analogy would be more like "you" knowing some neighbor man "a friend" sexually abused a little boy in the neighborhood and all you did was notify some bosses, not the police, in order to help cover up the abuse and then stay silent for years. The analogy would be closer to the truth if it happened at your workplace and you covered for the guy for reasons of career.
I cant answer for you but for sure you can bet I'd report the guy to the Police immediatly. BTW your statement has to be amongst the dumbest Ive ever seen in an internet forum and thats saying a lot.
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Even if he DID enable, or overlook a sex abuse situation, flaming him and bringing all this crap back up now that he has passed is just plain disrespectful.
[/b]
perhaps he didnt respect the kids by not doing more to help them while they were being raped. he had knowledge, he had a position where if the university policy had done nothing she should've gone to the press. by not acting he allowed more children to be molested. he also had the power to kick the scumbag out or remove him from his potions. but he didnt. he may have been a great coach but he it all comes down to he allowed by not doing more children to be raped. that is note being disrespectful that is being truthful.
semp
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perhaps he didnt respect the kids by not doing more to help them while they were being raped. he had knowledge, he had a position where if the university policy had done nothing she should've gone to the press. by not acting he allowed more children to be molested. he also had the power to kick the scumbag out or remove him from his potions. but he didnt. he may have been a great coach but he it all comes down to he allowed by not doing more children to be raped. that is note being disrespectful that is being truthful.
semp
Yep.
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We know because we can read:http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/22/justice/pennsylvania-coach-abuse-timeline/index.html
Giving a man "God" status because he coached a sports team is ignorant and pathetic. Ridiculing him for allowing a pedophile to active abuse kids because he don't want bad press is called for.
Do you have any quotes from the press conference he called after first discovering Sandusky was a child rapist in 2002? Paterno brought this on himself.
I didnt give him "god" status, now did I? I certainly do not condone what he supposedly did (or didnt?) do, but I'm not so feeble minded as to burn the fellow at the stake just yet. I respect him for not for him being a good coach, but rather the life *he* lead, he gave more of his money and time to charity that most lynchers can even fathom. That doesn't make what he supposedly did (or didn't?) do alright, but we're talking about 2 different things. The guy is dead. If you or anyone else wants to speak lowly of the fellow then pull up the old thread that was started when the news broke, but not here. Like I said, show some respect to the dead by shutting your pie hole, and show that you have some dignity.
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Yikes, looks like you have to take a side on this one.
A exceptional career does not not negate the huge mistake he made.
A huge mistake does not negate an exceptional career.
Humans, you take the good with the bad.
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Sorry for posting this whole thread. I do not care what people think or feel about the whole child molestation case, but to come on to this thread and troll with hate words is childish and disrespectful. Perhaps common sense of using "have nothing nice to say then don't say anything" not a common saying anymore. Sigh, sigh.
GROWE UP PEOPLE!
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I didnt give him "god" status, now did I?
No, you didn't. But, Pedd State did. Remember the riot when he was fired?
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I'll reserve the right to not pass judgement on the man since as a man, I have no right to condemn him.
I hope he is at peace.
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As coarse as I can tend to be, I am hard-pressed to speak ill of he deceased.
As a coach and a member of the community, Joe Pa did wonders. All of that is eclipsed by the atrocities that happened there and it is a crying shame.
I firmly believe that when good men stand idle, evil will triumph. I also firmly believe that when one keeps a secret like this to one's self, it will eat you alive from the inside-out. Case in point...
If I were in that position that he was, I would have called the police myself. If only to cover his arse, he should have called. There would have been no blow-back on him. It would certainly have not jeopardized his career. It would have made him an even bigger pillar of the community. I think that events panning out as they did would have been the only way that Jo Pa could have ever gotten fired. If Sandusky were to be found innocent, there may have been some bad blood between them, but it would have been best to err on the side of caution.
If he had done nothing at all, perhaps I would have a different opinion if he had done nothing at all. I still think that, once he realized that the police were NOT being involved, he should have called them himself. Hell, as far as I know, the police WERE informed, but they were as much a part of covering this up as the school was. There is a lot of revenue to be generated by having a juggernaut of a University in your town.
For those of you that don't know, State College, PA was a pretty dull, broke and sleepy little town before Joe Pa came along. I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, but the following (which I have posted before) IS a bit strange...
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/DA-Who-Never-Charged-Sandusky-Has-Been-Missing-Since-2005-133615093.html (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/DA-Who-Never-Charged-Sandusky-Has-Been-Missing-Since-2005-133615093.html)
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Rest in peace Joe. You will be remembered for being a coaching legend and having a great impact on people's lives. A true example of loyalty to an ideal and institution. :salute
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If he had done nothing at all, perhaps I would have a different opinion if he had done nothing at all. I still think that, once he realized that the police were NOT being involved, he should have called them himself. Hell, as far as I know, the police WERE informed, but they were as much a part of covering this up as the school was. There is a lot of revenue to be generated by having a juggernaut of a University in your town.
All he did was take part in a conspiracy with several School Presidents to cover the matter up. He/they NEVER called ANY Police. Not campus police, not ANY Police.
I could basically live with anything else the guy could have done. Smack the wife, beat the dog, rob a bank, but to help cover up for a serial child molester???? You gotta wonder what JoePa and the rest of these fools were thinking. Obviously it was their own images and careers they put over the welfare of these helpless children. And this Loony tune Jerry Sandusky doesnt even think he didnt do anything wrong.
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All he did was take part in a conspiracy with several School Presidents to cover the matter up. He/they NEVER called ANY Police. Not campus police, not ANY Police.
I could basically live with anything else the guy could have done. Smack the wife, beat the dog, rob a bank, but to help cover up for a serial child molester???? You gotta wonder what JoePa and the rest of these fools were thinking. Obviously it was their own images and careers they put over the welfare of these helpless children. And this Loony tune Jerry Sandusky doesnt even think he didnt do anything wrong.
Someone informed officials. The DA knew about it.
I'll try this again...
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/DA-Who-Never-Charged-Sandusky-Has-Been-Missing-Since-2005-133615093.html (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/DA-Who-Never-Charged-Sandusky-Has-Been-Missing-Since-2005-133615093.html)
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All he did was take part in a conspiracy with several School Presidents to cover the matter up. He/they NEVER called ANY Police. Not campus police, not ANY Police.
I could basically live with anything else the guy could have done. Smack the wife, beat the dog, rob a bank, but to help cover up for a serial child molester???? You gotta wonder what JoePa and the rest of these fools were thinking. Obviously it was their own images and careers they put over the welfare of these helpless children. And this Loony tune Jerry Sandusky doesnt even think he didnt do anything wrong.
Hmm, where are you getting your info that JoePa helped cover a serial rapist? What I read, is that all he knew is that there was inappropriate showering with one boy, which he took to his higher ups. It was inconclusive what was actually going on, i don't think the grad student told him any graphic detail of what he thinks he saw. So aside from that one incident, which JoePa took to his superiors, what else was there that warrants the sheeple to demonize him? I'm honestly asking, I might have missed it. Was there other stuff that people told Joe that he sat on? A link would be nice to show how deep he was in this grand cover up.
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Hmm, where are you getting your info that JoePa helped cover a serial rapist? What I read, is that all he knew is that there was inappropriate showering with one boy, which he took to his higher ups. It was inconclusive what was actually going on, i don't think the grad student told him any graphic detail of what he thinks he saw. So aside from that one incident, which JoePa took to his superiors, what else was there that warrants the sheeple to demonize him? I'm honestly asking, I might have missed it. Was there other stuff that people told Joe that he sat on? A link would be nice to show how deep he was in this grand cover up.
From part of Paterno's deposition:
"He (McQueary) had seen a person, an older person, fondling a young boy," Paterno testified. "I don't know what you would call it, but it was of a sexual nature. I didn't push Mike to describe it because he was already upset, but it was something inappropriate to a youngster."
"I didn't want to interfere with their weekends, (so) either Saturday or Monday, I talked to my boss, Tim Curley, by phone, saying, 'Hey we got a problem' and I explained the problem to him," Paterno said.
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From part of Paterno's deposition:
"He (McQueary) had seen a person, an older person, fondling a young boy," Paterno testified. "I don't know what you would call it, but it was of a sexual nature. I didn't push Mike to describe it because he was already upset, but it was something inappropriate to a youngster."
"I didn't want to interfere with their weekends, (so) either Saturday or Monday, I talked to my boss, Tim Curley, by phone, saying, 'Hey we got a problem' and I explained the problem to him," Paterno said.
Yeah that's what I had read.
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Hmm, where are you getting your info that JoePa helped cover a serial rapist?
There were incidents dating back as far as 1994, while Sandusky was on the payroll for Penn State. One of these incidents even happened on the campus in 2000! This wasn't unheard of behavior for Sandusky when the house of cards came tumbling down after the 2002 incident. The Administration of Penn State is largely to blame and brought down Paterno with them. Paterno isn't innocent, he didn't follow through as he should of.
The really sad part is no one would give a crap if Paterno was an English professor that was fired, but since he was the head of the almighty football program, there is weeping in the streets.
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He did no covering for anyone, he told his bosses what he knew, expecting them to act.
BTW WTF is a Pederast?
And when they did not do anything, he fired the bad guy and called the cops. Oh wait, he didn't, he just covered for him, but since he was a coach for a college he is a saint and should not be spoken bad of in any way of form. What exactly did he contribute to man kind? Another hero :lol Anyone ever remembers sergeants that save lives (even yours) everyday? Nop. But hey, win a bunch of games for a school and you are a national hero that could be allowed to turn your head the other way when crimes against children are committed.
As for what Pederast means, I am sure your vast knowledge will allow you to do a google search or at list take a guess.
So, in your opinion, he could not have fired his assistant and call the cops? What kind of person keep someone around after that?
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:confused: :uhoh
My 2-cents: How long now have authorities recorded every single call made to 911 or police dispatchers?
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:confused: :uhoh
My 2-cents: How long now have authorities recorded every single call made to 911 or police dispatchers?
A quick search makes it seem that the standard was reached in 1995, by APCO and Project 33, so I'd venture to say then. Perhaps other places started sooner.
http://www.apco911.org/
Then it appears record retention varies from state to state. In Florida, it's anywhere from 30 days to 7 years.
http://archive.flsenate.gov/data/Publications/2001/Senate/reports/interim_reports/pdf/2001-036ca.pdf
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As a individual that works and lives in State College Pa, I cant even begin to explain to you people the atmosphere that is here in Happy Valley. I work as a Correctional Officer at the prison that is 5 miles down the road from Beaver Stadium and have grown up in the area all my life. I have seen all the good that Joe Pa has done for this community and the spirit he has brought to the community.
I have seen and read stuff you people of the general public have not seen nor will see, as I am on the front lines with this entire Sandusky scandal. I have had what some of you might think of as an interesting experience having to talk, doing a strip search when Sandusky was brought to jail and escorting Sandusky during all this media crap that has surrounded this great area.
I do agree with most of you that Joe Pa should have "done more" with what information he was provided. But he was never told all the information that everyone else was told including the District Attorney. Information was withheld from Joe and if you all can remember, the DA that was involved in not pressing the charges was no other than the mysterious Gricar who went missing with out a trace along with all his files from the incidents of Mr Sandusky.
Do I think there was some kind of cover up?........you bet ya.........but it went WAY beyond Joe Paterno. Hopefully the truth comes out about the entire scam and Joe Pa name is cleared once and for all about exactly how much he really knew..........you will all be surprised.
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A story most have never read..........
Joe Paterno’s first interview since the Penn State-Sandusky scandal
By Sally Jenkins, Published: January 14
STATE COLLEGE, PA. — Joe Paterno sat in a wheelchair at the family kitchen table where he has eaten, prayed and argued for more than a half-century. All around him family members were shouting at each other, yet he was whispering. His voice sounded like wind blowing across a field of winter stalks, rattling the husks. Lung cancer has robbed him of the breath to say all that he wants to about the scandal he still struggles to comprehend, and which ended his career as head football coach at Penn State University. The words come like gusts. “I wanted to build up, not break down,” he said.
Crowded around the table were his three voluble sons, Scott, Jay, David, daughter Mary Kay, and his wife of 50 years, Sue, all chattering at once. In the middle of the table a Lazy Susan loaded with trays of cornbread and mashed potatoes spun by, swirling fast as the arguments. “If you go hungry, it’s your own fault,” Paterno likes to say. But Paterno, 85, could not eat. He sipped Pepsi over crushed ice from a cup. Once, it would have been bourbon. His hand showed a tremor, and a wig replaced his once-fine head of black hair.
Paterno’s hope is that time will be his ally when it comes to judging what he built, versus what broke down. “I’m not 31 years old trying to prove something to anybody,” he said. “I know where I am.” This is where he is: wracked by radiation and chemotherapy, in a wheelchair with a broken pelvis, and “shocked and saddened” as he struggles to explain a breakdown of devastating proportions. Jerry Sandusky, his former assistant coach at Penn State from 1969 to 1999, is charged with more than 50 counts of sexually abusing young boys over a 15-year period. He maintains his innocence. If Sandusky is guilty, “I’m sick about it,” Paterno said.
How Sandusky, 67, allegedly evaded detection by state child services, university administrators, teachers, parents, donors and Paterno himself remains an open question. “I wish I knew,” Paterno said. “I don’t know the answer to that. It’s hard.” Almost as difficult for Paterno to answer is the question of why, after receiving a report in 2002 that Sandusky had abused a boy in the shower of Penn State’s Lasch Football Building, and forwarding it to his superiors, he didn’t follow up more aggressively.
“I didn’t know exactly how to handle it and I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was,” he said. “So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did. It didn’t work out that way.”
Former athletic director Tim Curley and school vice president Gary Schultz face charges of perjury and failing to report suspected child abuse, based on their inaction. They have pleaded innocent. Though he is not charged with a crime, Penn State president Graham Spanier was fired on Nov. 9, along with Paterno.
Paterno is accused of no wrongdoing, and in fact authorities have said he fulfilled his legal obligations by reporting to his superiors. Nevertheless, the university Board of Trustees summarily dismissed him with a late-night phone call four days after Sandusky’s arrest. At about 10 p.m., Paterno and Sue were getting ready for bed when the doorbell rang. An assistant athletic director was at the door, and wordlessly handed Sue a slip of paper. There was nothing on it but the name of the vice chairman of trustees, John Surma, with a phone number. They stood frozen by the bedside in their nightclothes, Sue in a robe and Paterno in pajamas and a Penn State sweatshirt. Paterno dialed the number.
Surma told Paterno, “In the best interests of the university, you are terminated.” Paterno hung up and repeated the words to his wife. She grabbed the phone and redialed.
“After 61 years he deserved better,” she snapped. “He deserved better.”
The firing provoked a riot on campus that night.
To Penn State students, Paterno was less a person than a beloved monument. He had arrived at a “cow college” in 1950 as an assistant coach armed with a flathead haircut, a Brooklyn accent and a degree from Brown. As the head coach from 1966 on, he struck an austerely iconic pose, managing to be both fierce and bookish, with his black cleats and his thick black-framed glasses. To his rivals, he was a holier-than-thou prig who intimated he was more principled than they were.
Under his leadership Penn State football became a kind of gross national product as he won more games than any other coach in history, yet regularly posted high graduation rates — his team was ranked No.1 academically out of the top 25 football teams in 2009 and 2011 by the New America Foundation’s Academic Bowl Championship Series. The “cow college” grew into a public research university with $4.6 billion in revenue and buildings as large as airplane hangars. Beaver Stadium was renovated and enlarged six times during his tenure.
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But after 61 years on the campus, Paterno cleared out his office in the space of one day. It was an end he was unprepared for. Yet it came with the realization that as the face of the university, people assign him greater responsibility than other officials.
“Whether it’s fair I don’t know, but they do it,” he said. “You would think I ran the show here.”
Over two separate conversations on Thursday and Friday, Paterno discussed his career and his actions relating to Sandusky. His attorney Wick Sollers of the Washington law firm King & Spalding, and a communications adviser, Dan McGinn of TMG Strategies, monitored the conversations, in part to be sure Paterno was lucid, since he has experienced fogginess from his chemo treatments, one of which he underwent the day before the first interview.
Since the scandal broke, Paterno has been largely silent while dealing with his health issues, despite scathing criticism that included accusations that he protected Sandusky and wielded more power in the cloistered community known as Happy Valley than the university president.
Paterno was initially reluctant to speak because “I wanted everybody to settle down,” he said. But he is so eager to defend his record that he insisted on continuing the interview from his bedside Friday morning, though ill. He was hospitalized for observation later in the day due to complications from the chemo but, according to the family, had improved by Saturday morning.
Mostly he sat in his wheelchair covered by a blanket, surrounded by pictures of his children and grandchildren, in the modest stone-and-plate-glass home he bought for $9,000 in 1966. The home, and the fact that his address and phone are still listed in the State College phone book, have oft been cited as evidence of his regular-Joe values. A good deal of what he earned has gone back to the university, in the form of donations to a library that bears his name and a campus spiritual center.
“My father said about money: ‘You have to have some. But you don’t have to have all of it. Just be honest with yourself.’ ”
He displays only a few mementos of his football career, jumbled in a glass case in a dark corner of his old study, a small, woody space. Most of the items in the case are personal souvenirs. Tucked in one corner is a card that says, “This marriage is interrupted for football season.” There are game balls, the most prominent one from Oct. 29, 2011, when the Nittany Lions defeated Illinois, 10-7, to make Paterno the winningest coach in the annals of major college football, with 409 victories.
Sandusky was arrested just a week later.
What Penn State officials knew about Sandusky and when is the subject of no fewer than five formal investigations. They range from state Attorney General Linda Kelly’s criminal investigation of Sandusky, to an NCAA inquiry, to Penn State’s in-house inquiry led by former FBI director Louis J. Freeh. The best-case scenario is that the institutional leaders were guilty of blindness, and an unfeeling self-absorption. The worst case is a criminal cover-up to protect a wealthy university’s reputation.
This is Paterno’s own account:
On a Saturday morning in 2002, an upset young assistant coach named Mike McQueary knocked on Paterno’s door to tell him he had witnessed a shocking scene in the Penn State football building showers. Until that moment, Paterno said, he had “no inkling” that Sandusky might be a sexual deviant. By then Sandusky was a former employee, with whom Paterno had little to do. Although Sandusky had been his close coaching associate and helped fashion Penn State defenses for three decades, their relationship was “professional, not social,” as Paterno described it. “He was a lot younger than me.” Sandusky had been out of the program for three years, and in fact, Paterno said he cannot recall the last time he had seen or spoken to Sandusky. “I can’t,” he said.
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Sandusky retired in 1999, shortly after Penn State made the Alamo Bowl. The timing was curious. Paterno’s understanding was that Sandusky took early retirement on his recommendation after Paterno told him frankly that he would not become his successor. The state was offering 30-year employees a handsome buyout, and Paterno believed Sandusky should take it. Paterno was frustrated that Sandusky spent so much time working on his youth foundation, The Second Mile, that he was not available to help in recruiting and other coaching duties. Authorities now say Sandusky used Second Mile to meet and groom his alleged victims.
“He came to see me and we talked a little about his career,” Paterno said. “I said, you know, Jerry, you want to be head coach, you can’t do as much as you’re doing with the other operation. I said this job takes so much detail, and for you to think you can go off and get involved in fundraising and a lot of things like that. . . . I said you can’t do both, that’s basically what I told him.”
Paterno insists he was completely unaware of a 1998 police investigation into a report from a Second Mile mother that Sandusky had inappropriately touched her son in a shower. The inquiry ended when the local prosecutor declined to bring charges. “You know it wasn’t like it was something everybody in the building knew about,” Paterno said. “Nobody knew about it.”
Paterno contends that ignorance was the context with which he heard McQueary’s disturbing story in 2002. McQueary, sitting at Paterno’s kitchen table, told him that he had been at the football building late the evening before when he heard noises coming from the shower.
“He was very upset and I said why, and he was very reluctant to get into it,” Paterno said. “He told me what he saw, and I said, what? He said it, well, looked like inappropriate, or fondling, I’m not quite sure exactly how he put it. I said you did what you had to do. It’s my job now to figure out what we want to do. So I sat around. It was a Saturday. Waited till Sunday because I wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing. And then I called my superiors and I said: ‘Hey, we got a problem, I think. Would you guys look into it?’ Cause I didn’t know, you know. We never had, until that point, 58 years I think, I had never had to deal with something like that. And I didn’t feel adequate.”
At that point, Paterno set up a meeting for McQueary and Curley, the athletic director, and Schultz, who oversaw university police. McQueary has testified that he gave both men a far more graphic description of what he witnessed, which he believed to be Sandusky sodomizing a boy of about 10, who had his hands against the shower wall. At the preliminary hearing for Curley and Schultz on Dec. 16, McQueary said he had been reluctant to go into similar “great detail about sexual acts” with Paterno, out of respect for the coach, who was 75 at the time.
Schultz and Curley have maintained that McQueary failed to impart the seriousness of what he saw to them as well. They never told police about the allegation, instead informing Sandusky he could no longer bring children to university facilities. Prosecutors say Sandusky continued to abuse boys for six more years.
Paterno has said, “In hindsight, I wish I had done more.”
Paterno’s portrait of himself is of an old-world man profoundly confused by what McQueary told him, and who was hesitant to make follow-up calls because he did not want to be seen as trying to exert any influence for or against Sandusky. “I didn’t know which way to go,” he said. “And rather than get in there and make a mistake . . .”
He reiterated that McQueary was unclear with him about the nature of what he saw — and added that even if McQueary had been more graphic, he’s not sure he would have comprehended it.
“You know, he didn’t want to get specific,” Paterno said. “And to be frank with you I don’t know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it.”
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Paterno declined to judge Sandusky, or his other Penn State colleagues. “I think we got to wait and see what happens,” he said. “The courts are taking care of it, the legal system is taking care of it.”
According to Sollers, the attorney, Paterno has no legal exposure in the Sandusky case. Paterno has cooperated fully with the investigation, and has “met on multiple occasions voluntarily” with representatives from the attorney general’s office, Sollers said. “In my judgment Coach Paterno has no legal liability in this matter. In fact, he acted completely appropriately in reporting the only allegation he received to his superiors and had every expectation that the allegation would be investigated thoroughly.”
Paterno has felt smaller repercussions.
His son Scott says Paterno has been “shunned” by many in the university, though he did hear from current Penn State President Rodney Erickson last week when he made a $100,000 donation to the school. His name has been removed from trophies. The Maxwell Football Club of Philadelphia has discontinued its Joseph V. Paterno Award, which was to be given to coaches who made a positive impact. A nomination for the Presidential Medal of Freedom was withdrawn.
But Joe Paterno is not the victim here, he reminds you.
“You know, I’m not as concerned about me,” he said. “What’s happened to me has been great. I got five great kids. Seventeen great grandchildren. I’ve had a wonderful experience here at Penn State. I don’t want to walk away from this thing bitter. I want to be helpful.”
The Paternos say they think about the real potential victims every time they look at their own children. “I got three boys and two girls,” Paterno said. “It’s sickening.” His knee-jerk response is to go back to Flatbush. “Violence is not the way to handle it,” he said. “But for me, I’d get a bunch of guys and say let’s go punch somebody in the nose.” Sue Paterno is more blunt. “If someone touched my child, there wouldn’t be a trial, I would have killed them,” she said. “That would be my attitude, because you have destroyed someone for life.”
She sighed. “It’s a bad scene for this happy valley.”
The Sandusky investigation has torn apart a cloistered town-and-gown community where everyone knows everyone — including Sandusky. Old friends cannot talk to each other because criminal trials are imminent. Recently Sue went to the funeral of Tim Curley’s mother. The Paternos have known John Surma for years — Paterno recruited his brother. Underneath the tension is the complicated knowledge that if Sandusky is guilty, he was as good at seducing the adults as he was the children.
If nothing else, the Paternos say, perhaps the Sandusky case will raise consciousness in other communities the way it has been raised in theirs. “We are going to become a more aware society,” Sue said. “Maybe we will look for clues.” She wonders what signs she missed all those years, when they felt so successful and sure of themselves.
“I had no clue,” she said. “I thought doctors looked for child abuse in a hospital, in a bruise or something.”
It remains to be seen, barring any new revelations, whether there will be a reappraisal of Paterno’s life and record at Penn State. Eventually, his family hopes, there will be healing and forgiveness in the community, and the outlines of the man they insist Paterno is, and not the monument or monumental target, will reemerge: A modest, decent, fundamentally devoted coach who always loved books more than money.
His starting salary was just $20,000. In 1972 the New England Patriots offered him $1.3 million to become coach and general manager. But at 5:30 a.m. on the day he intended fly to Boston to accept, Paterno woke up and realized it was mistake. He said to his wife: “You went to bed with a millionaire but you woke up with me. I’m not going.” He stayed at Penn State, though he was making just $35,000. In 2008 his salary of $1.03 million was still fractional compared to peers, some of whom now make $4 million.
Paterno’s record is not perfect. Anyone who won on his scale has an ungenerous competitive streak and nascent ego. His love for higher learning — he likes to name-drop Puccini and Virgil — could tip over into superiority. He could show a temper, as he did in 1995 when a camera caught him delivering a profane on-field tirade.
His football program was not immune to the problems of big-time college athletics. An ESPN inquiry found that from 2002 to 2007, 46 Penn State football players faced criminal charges. But he liked working with problem cases and turning them around. “Hotshots,” he still calls them today. The 2007 team had 19 players who earned Academic all-Big Ten honors. “The bigger the problem the guy was, the more I enjoyed it when we had success,” he said.
Over the course of his career, 47 of his players made Academic all-American, the third-highest total among institutions playing at the championship level.
He loved his work. “They were all days I looked forward to,” he said. His philosophy was simple. “My thing was play as hard as you can, don’t be stupid, pay attention to details, and have enough guts in the clutch that you’re not afraid to make a play,” he said. “Some things I thought were important for a young man to know.”
Early on, Paterno vowed that he would try to never lose perspective. In 1968 he said: “We’re trying to win football games, don’t misunderstand that. But I don’t want it to ruin our lives if we lose. I don’t want us ever to become the kind of place where an 8-2 season is a tragedy.”
Asked if he succeeded in keeping the vow, he said: “I stayed on the track I wanted to stay on. I don’t think I deviated from what I’m all about and what I thought was important. Whether you want to call that a legacy, or whatever you want to call it.”
These are the things Paterno would prefer to reminisce about. Instead, he is tying up the loose ends of the abrupt end to his career. There are mounds of mail to deal with, 12,000 letters (his grandchildren counted them). Former Penn State running back Franco Harris, the Pittsburgh Steelers Hall of Famer, checks in regularly and is leading a furious campaign to depose the Board of Trustees for their handling of the scandal and Paterno’s dismissal. Paterno tries to play peacemaker, although he admits his first reaction was, “Raise hell.” There are still details to work out with the school, because he remains a tenured professor. On Jan. 2 the university sent him a retirement letter.
“Right now I’m trying to figure out what I’m gonna do,” he said. “Cause I don’t want to sit around on my backside all day.” He grins and there is a light behind his glasses. “If I’m gonna do that I’ll be a newspaper reporter.”
Nevertheless, sitting is mostly what he does, surrounded by the photographs that have accrued on the walls for almost a half-century. They provoke memories. His father, Angelo, studying late at a kitchen table to become a court clerk, impressing on him the open-endedness of learning. His deep pride at being admitted to Ivy League schools, followed by chagrin when he visited Princeton and no one in the eating clubs would speak to him. “Bunch of stuffed shirts,” he said. His wound when frat boys at Brown frowned at him for wearing sweaters instead of tweeds and said, “How did that dago get invited?” His mother, when he called to tell her that he was finally ready to wed at 34, to a young woman he had met, of course, in the library.
“I’m getting married.”
“To who?”
“Susie. You know Susie.”
“That big German girl?”
“Yes, Ma, she’s German.”
“What the hell are you gonna eat?”
The big German girl is in fact slender as a schoolgirl and still has world-class cheekbones at 75. She tends to Paterno gently, ushering him from kitchen table to bedroom and back again, clasping his hand when it trembles. “Speak up,” Sue tells him. Paterno smiles and rasps, “Ordinarily she tells me to shut up.”
Every little while, Sue pulls a picture from a wall and shows it to Paterno or shares it with one of his many visitors. They are invariably photos of children, of sons and daughters and grandchildren. The children are captured in time and they are all beautiful. They are new, unmarked, angel-faced, radiant. These are the images the Paternos cling to, through all the levels of distortion, the press maelstrom, the impending trials, the grotesqueries described on witness stands. Whenever someone in her family loses their emotional way, and sits at the kitchen table weeping for something that’s been lost or torn down, Sue holds a frame out to them and shows them a photograph of unspoiled familial innocence.
“Look at this picture,” she tells them. “This is who we are. And no one can take us from us.”
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"Joe Paterno doesn’t walk into a police station…C’mon, that’s a good one!”
ack-ack
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So that backs the claim he failed to pursue the issue.
How did he perform his legal duty... no police were called.
He was concerned about school procedure? What procedure does the school have regarding sex with a child. Is this more common place at penn state or state college?
It does not make any sense that any person with the slightest intellegence would not call the police.
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Three things.
One: Once he realized the people above him who should have done the right thing didn't, he should have done it himself. He knew a ten year old was raped and did the "correct" thing, not the "right".
Two: He was a damn great coach but he screwed up badly. refer to part one as to why.
Three: He took 100% of the blame when he shouldn't have had to and accepted responsibility when many others weren't in the limelight.
---No matter what he did or didn't do he still owned up to being at least partially at fault for Sanduski staying out of trouble. In my mind he should Rest in Peace a little more than a certain senator Ted did.
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---No matter what he did or didn't do he still owned up to being at least partially at fault for Sanduski staying out of trouble. In my mind he should Rest in Peace a little more than a certain senator Ted did.
Yeah, once he got busted he admitted fault. :rofl So do most criminals. They plead guilty in hopes for leniency :lol He kept his mouth shut so he could keep collecting from the school. Really simple. If he was anything other than a sports figure, you guys would have been asking for his head in platter :lol
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but did he tell the campus Police, he sure did.
No police report, he didn't tell the police.
Yea, check the facts, he turned it over to people that were supposed to handle situations like these.
That would be the police, and no he didn't. :bhead
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No police report, he didn't tell the police.
That would be the police, and no he didn't. :bhead
Are you 100% sure?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html)
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One act can't outweigh the legacy, not for me anyway.
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One act can't outweigh the legacy, not for me anyway.
That one act is his legacy. :old: What exactly did he do to better human kind? :lol
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Are you 100% sure?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html)
Strange piece there. If true it makes me believe that state college may be no place for children and a great place for pedofiles. That is if it is correct..... it is the NY Times after all.
Paterno himself said he did not report the incident to police.
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Strange piece there. If true it makes me believe that state college may be no place for children and a great place for pedofiles. That is if it is correct..... it is the NY Times after all.
Paterno himself said he did not report the incident to police.
It does appear, however, that someone did. Why it did not progress from that point, whether from Paterno's involvement or lack thereof, is what creeps me out the most.
The fact that the DA did not "find enough evidence to prosecute" coupled with the fact that he "committed suicide" a few years later is eerie, as well.
He was found dead in his car. His laptop, however was found in the river, sans hard drive... :noid
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That one act is his legacy. :old: What exactly did he do to better human kind? :lol
I can say that because of him my life is better. I'm going to leave it at that, except to say that I met him and he was an awesome guy.
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It does appear, however, that someone did. Why it did not progress from that point, whether from Paterno's involvement or lack thereof, is what creeps me out the most.
The fact that the DA did not "find enough evidence to prosecute" coupled with the fact that he "committed suicide" a few years later is eerie, as well.
He was found dead in his car. His laptop, however was found in the river, sans hard drive... :noid
No my friend Ray Gricar was NEVER found......He still missing
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Let Dedalos judge, I'm sure he has lived an absolutely honor filled life where he is in a position to cast stones at the recently passed. :P
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Let Dedalos judge, I'm sure he has lived an absolutely honor filled life where he is in a position to cast stones at the recently passed. :P
Nop, but people don't go around telling everyone that I am untouchable and a national hero either, nor do I claim to be one.
Now, lets let Grizz judge everyone based on how many wins they have. According to Grizz, If you have enough wins you can let child abuse and molestation continue and carry no responsibility fro your non actions what so ever.
Glad to see where you stand on the mater though. For the record, even though I have not "lived an absolutely honor filled life" I would have never let something like that go. I have no respect for people (dead or alive) that are abusing or have abused kids and the ones that support them :P
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Are you 100% sure?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sports/ncaafootball/aftermath-of-1998-sandusky-investigation-raises-additional-questions.html)
That NYT article is about a 1998 investigation, which is completely separate from the 2002 shower incident that Paterno knew about (From the firsthand account of assistant coach McQueary)
By Paterno's own admission, he relayed this information to campus administrators, not to a police officer, which would have generated a police report.
So yes, I feel reasonably sure about that.
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Have you heard the good news?
He is risen.
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Yeah, once he got busted he admitted fault. :rofl So do most criminals. They plead guilty in hopes for leniency :lol He kept his mouth shut so he could keep collecting from the school. Really simple. If he was anything other than a sports figure, you guys would have been asking for his head in platter :lol
hence the reason i said he deserves RIP just a lil more than our drunk driving woman killing senator :ahand
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One act can't outweigh the legacy, not for me anyway.
one act cannot outweigh the legacy, but it creates a new one itself to taint said legacy forever
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According to Grizz, If you have enough wins you can let child abuse and molestation continue and carry no responsibility fro your non actions what so ever.
Haha, I never said anything close to that. I'm a level headed person Ded, one who can see through the overdramatic and misleading fog that the media creates to sell a juicy story. The common sheeple cannot do that. They instead grab pitchforks and storm the castle with the other sheeple. :P
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Haha, I never said anything close to that. I'm a level headed person Ded, one who can see through the overdramatic and misleading fog that the media creates to sell a juicy story. The common sheeple cannot do that. They instead grab pitchforks and storm the castle with the other sheeple. :P
I'd like to know the opinion of someone who can see through the fog. In your opinion, did he or did he not do anything wrong?
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I'd like to know the opinion of someone who can see through the fog. In your opinion, did he or did he not do anything wrong?
Here's how I see it:
He was told in non graphic detail what the grad assistant saw in the shower. The grad student said that he did not go into detail with respect for the 75(?) year old Joe Paterno. Joe Paterno has never dealt with anything like this in his 75 year old life and simply does not know what to do. So he waits a couple days to make the right decision, and then goes to his higher ups and reports the incident to them. They tell him they will look into it. Joe does his part and assumes the "wheels are in motion", afterall the legal process is a slow process. At this point he has done his duty. Now this is where things get weird. Just look at some of the posts von Messa posted. Was campus security contacted by JoePa's higher ups, following protocol? Was it looked into? Was a DA murdered over it? I really have no clue.
Could JoePa have done more? I don't know, I suppose he could have shouted it from the largest mountain, but honestly I think he handled it the right way given the extremely delicate nature of the situation. He went to his superiors who may or may not have done their duty in reporting it to police, it seems they might have. From Joe's perspective, he did his job and could only assume the "wheels were in motion". A year later he might have come to realize nothing ever happened of it due to lack of evidence or shady business, but honestly he is just a football coach with absolutely no experience dealing with this stuff. He did his duty, as did the grad assistant.
Unless there is more information that I am missing in regards to other incidents that JoePa knew about, in particular, while working with Sandusky, in that he knew he was a child pedophile but did not care, then yes, this is extreme negligence and I would question JoePa's legacy as a moral man, but I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe this. And this line of thought, is exactly what the sheeple take from this whole thing without actually taking the time to use their pea brains to think about how it actually went down.
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Here's how I see it:
He was told in non graphic detail what the grad assistant saw in the shower. The grad student said that he did not go into detail with respect for the 75(?) year old Joe Paterno. Joe Paterno has never dealt with anything like this in his 75 year old life and simply does not know what to do. So he waits a couple days to make the right decision, and then goes to his higher ups and reports the incident to them. They tell him they will look into it. Joe does his part and assumes the "wheels are in motion", afterall the legal process is a slow process. At this point he has done his duty. Now this is where things get weird. Just look at some of the posts von Messa posted. Was campus security contacted by JoePa's higher ups, following protocol? Was it looked into? Was a DA murdered over it? I really have no clue.
Could JoePa have done more? I don't know, I suppose he could have shouted it from the largest mountain, but honestly I think he handled it the right way given the extremely delicate nature of the situation. He went to his superiors who may or may not have done their duty in reporting it to police, it seems they might have. From Joe's perspective, he did his job and could only assume the "wheels were in motion". A year later he might have come to realize nothing ever happened of it due to lack of evidence or shady business, but honestly he is just a football coach with absolutely no experience dealing with this stuff. He did his duty, as did the grad assistant.
Unless there is more information that I am missing in regards to other incidents that JoePa knew about, in particular, while working with Sandusky, in that he knew he was a child pedophile but did not care, then yes, this is extreme negligence and I would question JoePa's legacy as a moral man, but I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe this. And this line of thought, is exactly what the sheeple take from this whole thing without actually taking the time to use their pea brains to think about how it actually went down.
Making "assumptions" that things are okay when an innocent child's well-being is at stake is irresponsible. Being a coach for so many years in a large institution such as that should make him aware of the hidden motives and inefficiencies of bureaucracies. Based on that and the nature of the true "extremely delicate nature of the situation" - a child's well-being and not the University's (a second-class one at that I might add), he should have done more than "assume it is all taken care of".
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Here's how I see it:
He was told in non graphic detail what the grad assistant saw in the shower. The grad student said that he did not go into detail with respect for the 75(?) year old Joe Paterno. Joe Paterno has never dealt with anything like this in his 75 year old life and simply does not know what to do. So he waits a couple days to make the right decision, and then goes to his higher ups and reports the incident to them. They tell him they will look into it. Joe does his part and assumes the "wheels are in motion", afterall the legal process is a slow process. At this point he has done his duty. Now this is where things get weird. Just look at some of the posts von Messa posted. Was campus security contacted by JoePa's higher ups, following protocol? Was it looked into? Was a DA murdered over it? I really have no clue.
Could JoePa have done more? I don't know, I suppose he could have shouted it from the largest mountain, but honestly I think he handled it the right way given the extremely delicate nature of the situation. He went to his superiors who may or may not have done their duty in reporting it to police, it seems they might have. From Joe's perspective, he did his job and could only assume the "wheels were in motion". A year later he might have come to realize nothing ever happened of it due to lack of evidence or shady business, but honestly he is just a football coach with absolutely no experience dealing with this stuff. He did his duty, as did the grad assistant.
Unless there is more information that I am missing in regards to other incidents that JoePa knew about, in particular, while working with Sandusky, in that he knew he was a child pedophile but did not care, then yes, this is extreme negligence and I would question JoePa's legacy as a moral man, but I have not seen anything that would lead me to believe this. And this line of thought, is exactly what the sheeple take from this whole thing without actually taking the time to use their pea brains to think about how it actually went down.
Wow :lol I detect no bias in your post lol. Look, I can make excuses for him all day long. If you are really going to argue that he did not know right from wrong, he thought the wheels were in motion, blah blah blah there is nothing I can say. You honestly believe that that was all he knew about? His duty was to go to the cops. Here is how a not so level headed person sees it:
If he went to the cops, the program might have been done. Without the program there is no money or fame for him, not to mention that he would be the one that destroyed the program. So, he did just enough to cover his arse by telling the people he knew would cover it all up. The fact that he could continue working with a guy he believed was doing these things tells a lot about him (I said he believed because if he didn't he would not have reported it right?)
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If he went to the cops, the program might have been done. Without the program there is no money or fame for him, not to mention that he would be the one that destroyed the program. So, he did just enough to cover his arse by telling the people he knew would cover it all up. The fact that he could continue working with a guy he believed was doing these things tells a lot about him (I said he believed because if he didn't he would not have reported it right?)
You clearly aren't informed on the story, because if you were, you would know that Sandusky was already retired and had been for some time when this happened. JoePa was not working with him in the least bit when this happened, or after.
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Maybe his superiors just told someone else like paterno did. I mean why call the cops... right?
Everyone failed the kids involved in this event. Child molesters depend on folks like this to pretty much look the other way or ignore the obvious.
From the outside this has coverup written all over it. Add the disappearance and death into the kettle and it looks like the ol' high and mighty holier than thou penn state was actually a rat hole of wrong doing.
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You clearly aren't informed on the story, because if you were, you would know that Sandusky was already retired and had been for some time when this happened. JoePa was not working with him in the least bit when this happened, or after.
Ahh, that makes it all better then. Did I get the rest of it right though? He did not call the cops right? And I think I know why.
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Ahh, that makes it all better then. Did I get the rest of it right though? He did not call the cops right? And I think I know why.
Why would you think you know anything when you do not even know the details of the story as you have proven?
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grizz... isnt it obvious that dedalos is not going to allow you to call the sky blue most of the time? No matter how much information you present, no matter how well you show him or anyone who is assuming, they will not yield to the fact that Joe did was he was supposed to do under the circumstances he was presented with.
People are very quick to use hind sight and they forget that they've not walked in someone else's shoes. They are very quick to jump on the soap box and preach righteousness.
Joe didnt need the money, he didnt cover anything up. He would still have been a legend in 1998 if he would have hung it up then, of "if his program would have went south", etc etc. Joe did nothing wrong, he doesn't deserve to be character lynched.
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anybody can ignore when somebody tells him/her about a child being molested and do nothing or very little and do nothing wrong. that is not the point. the point is he knew that somebody was molesting a child, graphic details or not, he knew. he told his higher ups, but in the position that he was in he should've done more. I am pretty sure he knew the guy was still showing up at the university so he knew that things were not being "take care of".
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. he is guilty of not doing more to help a child, just like the guy who told him and didnt pursue it any further. this is one of those things that you cannon just sit idle and not take sides.
you guys are right he did nothing wrong. but he should've done more, specially in his position.
semp
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Why would you think you know anything when you do not even know the details of the story as you have proven?
So he did call the cops? I am obviously confused :lol You discarded everything I said and you only kept my knowledge of them working together or not after he found out? (I bet you given time we will find out that the rumors were around anyway) My knowledge of that does not change any ones actions, does it? So did he call the cops or do anything to stop it? You know teh answer, right? He did just enough to cover his arse and keep his job. The difference between us Grizz is that I could care less about who he was and I am not willing to say it is ok just because he was a sports figure. If he was a politician we would have been in agreement taking turns at him with our pitchforks. :lol
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grizz... isnt it obvious that dedalos is not going to allow you to call the sky blue most of the time? No matter how much information you present, no matter how well you show him or anyone who is assuming, they will not yield to the fact that Joe did was he was supposed to do under the circumstances he was presented with.
Are you guys mature adults? What information? The fact is he did not inform the authorities. He only informed the people he knew would cover it up and then he continued to cover it up himself. There is only one thing you do under these circumstances. Call the cops. They deal with crimes, not his bosses. How is that so complicated for some of you?
As far as information, unless you guys were involved in this you only know what you read and hear and then choose to retain what you like and repeat it. So, please don;t explain to me how edumakated you are on the subject.
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So he did call the cops? I am obviously confused :lol You discarded everything I said and you only kept my knowledge of them working together or not after he found out? (I bet you given time we will find out that the rumors were around anyway) My knowledge of that does not change any ones actions, does it? So did he call the cops or do anything to stop it? You know teh answer, right? He did just enough to cover his arse and keep his job. The difference between us Grizz is that I could care less about who he was and I am not willing to say it is ok just because he was a sports figure. If he was a politician we would have been in agreement taking turns at him with our pitchforks. :lol
It wasn't his responsibility to report anything to the police. He did not witness a crime. If anyone had a responsibility it was the grad student that witnessed the crime. If JoePa was negligent, it was in not pushing McCreary into going to the police to tell his story but then again, I think they felt the wheels were in motion and things were being taken care of, since they both met with penn state officials to report the incident.
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It's everyone's responsibility to watch out for kids.
I'm sure sandusky was glad that it was business as usual after being caught. He probably appreciated folks simply ignoring him so he could keep on using children.
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He only informed the people he knew would cover it up and then he continued to cover it up himself.
Bingo...
Sandusky was witnessed on Penn State property, by someone employed by Penn State, in 2000 and the allegation is he was seen performing oral sex on a young boy. This is in addition to a bunch of other incidents off Penn State property!
This individual didn't belong any where near kids, and Penn State should of restricted or even outlawed his access permanently. Administration is at fault mostly, but Joe Paterno is at fault for letting it slide 2 days (with a KNOWN past) and not ensuring the police would be notified. Again, for almighty football, the victims should of kept their mouths shut so poor old Joe wouldn't suffer during his last days on earth.
I don't give a crap if you find a cure for cancer, perfect cold fusion and give it away for free, or adopt all the homeless kids in the world if you fail to protect one child from monsters like Sandusky.
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Well, at list we know where we all stand and some guys have moved way up on my respect list. (I know I know, no one cares about my list but me :lol )
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Wait, I was wrong... Sandusky was witnessed several times and 1998 is another event.
If you think for a moment that Paterno didn't know one of his coaches working under him didn't have a history of abusing kids (before 2002) ON Penn State property, you would have to be a complete moron. Frankly, the more I look at the documents, the less I think of Paterno.
It looks like the kids that were effected can sue Penn State (it doesn't necessarily fall under government ownership, per the lawyers) and I hope they sue Second Mile, Penn State, and the football program until they are so broke they are playing without pads.
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Well, at list we know where we all stand and some guys have moved way up on my respect list.
I think the list is divided by parents vs people without kids/Penn State fans.
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I think the list is divided by parents vs people without kids/Penn State fans.
Nah, not quite. Do not be so assuming. I have a 9yo son who enjoys playing AH and a 6yo daughter who pokes fun at dad and brother when they get shot down in AH. I'm also an Iowa Hawkeye fan, certainly not a Penn State fan. But I have the utmost respect for Joe Paterno and Penn State's football program (and the entire institution, really). The alleged actions of a former coach (however much of a dirtbag he may be), the perceived "lack" of actions by a few people (namely Joe) in running to the police, and the first hand knowledge and experience of NEVER jumping to conclusions on an issue because of the variables that are %100 unknown, forces me to not jump on the "lynch him" bandwagon like those obvious in this thread. If you or anyone else on that bandwagon were mature enough and experienced enough you'd know that too.
If Joe would have been put on trial, found guilty of the XYZ charge in relation to the alleged crime, then sure. Scar his cheek and lock him up. But until then, learn to accept that you and anyone else simply does not know the intricate details, and find the courage to realize that jumping on the "lynch him" bandwagon is wrong. Now go forth and be at peace. ;)
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I think the list is divided by parents vs people without kids/Penn State fans.
Heh, and how much being a celebrity can buy you in this world or how shallow people can be. They are talking about Joe's (talking about him using his first name as if they are some how buddies, lol) accomplishments as if he actually did something for man kind, however most would have to Google Louis Pasteur to figure out who he was even though he has probably saved their lives a few times :lol
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Nah, not quite. Do not be so assuming. I have a 9yo son who enjoys playing AH and a 6yo daughter who pokes fun at dad and brother when they get shot down in AH. I'm also an Iowa Hawkeye fan, certainly not a Penn State fan. But I have the utmost respect for Joe Paterno and Penn State's football program (and the entire institution, really). The alleged actions of a former coach (however much of a dirtbag he may be), the perceived "lack" of actions by a few people (namely Joe) in running to the police, and the first hand knowledge and experience of NEVER jumping to conclusions on an issue because of the variables that are %100 unknown, forces me to not jump on the "lynch him" bandwagon like those obvious in this thread. If you or anyone else on that bandwagon were mature enough and experienced enough you'd know that too.
If Joe would have been put on trial, found guilty of the XYZ charge in relation to the alleged crime, then sure. Scar his cheek and lock him up. But until then, learn to accept that you and anyone else simply does not know the intricate details, and find the courage to realize that jumping on the "lynch him" bandwagon is wrong. Now go forth and be at peace. ;)
I know he said in court papers that he should have done more. I think your going to find the unknowns are just going to be worse than what is already known.
We know paterno did not go to the police. We know he did not follow through. We know he thought he did not do enough.
We know his type are a blessing to child molesters.
How anyone can have kids and not be highly concerned at this type behavior is frightening.
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How anyone can have kids and not be highly concerned at this type behavior is frightening.
Agreed. I am sure the opinion of the other poster would be FAR different if his son was raped by Sandusky and then covered up by the college.
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How anyone can have kids and not be highly concerned at this type behavior is frightening.
Agreed. I am sure the opinion of the other poster would be FAR different if his son was raped by Sandusky and then covered up by the college.
No doubt...and the fact that I agree with RPM and ded in one thread makes me a little sick to my stomach.
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No doubt...and the fact that I agree with RPM and ded in one thread makes me a little sick to my stomach.
:lol
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Agreed. I am sure the opinion of the other poster would be FAR different if his son was raped by Sandusky and then covered up by the college.
You made a key statement right there: Sandusky and covered up by the college. My question is why is there such a movement to lynch Joe and not McQueary, or the AD, or college president, etc. The focus seems to be targeted at Joe, he was one link in the chain and he did what he was supposed to do with the info he had presented to him.
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You made a key statement right there: Sandusky and covered up by the college. My question is why is there such a movement to lynch Joe and not McQueary, or the AD, or college president, etc. The focus seems to be targeted at Joe, he was one link in the chain and he did what he was supposed to do with the info he had presented to him.
Because no one in here wrote anything about the others, making excuses for them, and explaining to us why they should get a free pass on this. The fact that others (non national heroes) were involved does not remove his responsibility.
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You made a key statement right there: Sandusky and covered up by the college.
That statement was to include Paterno, not exclude him.
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You made a key statement right there: Sandusky and covered up by the college. My question is why is there such a movement to lynch Joe and not McQueary, or the AD, or college president, etc. The focus seems to be targeted at Joe, he was one link in the chain and he did what he was supposed to do with the info he had presented to him.
Paterno failed just like the others. He is the only one being put on a pedestal in this thread. A place he no longer should hold in anyone's eyes.
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I think the list is divided by parents vs people without kids/Penn State fans.
im 21 and i dont agree with what he did?
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Excellent speeches going on currently at the public funeral. Its on ESPN right now if anyone cares too watch.
So much love to the man, excellent role model, and a hero for kids trying to do it the right way. :aok
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"If there is a villain in this tragedy, it lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno's response," -Phil Knight, Nike CEO
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You guys defending him are pathetic. Why did he not call the cops immediately? Hopefully it wont be one of your kids in a similar situation. F JoPa and all you supporters. I hope it was a slow painful death.
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Excellent speeches going on currently at the public funeral. Its on ESPN right now if anyone cares too watch.
So much love to the man, excellent role model, and a hero for kids trying to do it the right way. :aok
This is a hero http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,327666.0.html But no one knows him and I did not see a parade or any speeches on TV for him. Not enough wins I guess? How dare you compare a sports figure (any sports figure) to people like him?
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This is a hero http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,327666.0.html But no one knows him and I did not see a parade or any speeches on TV for him. Not enough wins I guess? How dare you compare a sports figure (any sports figure) to people like him?
I'd like to know where I compared Joe Paterno to a Veteran of war. I'm offended that you would think that I would put sports figures above our veterans...considering that my father was a marine and was in Grenada, had 3 great great uncles die in WW2, 4 great Uncles that fought in Vietnam, and 2 grandfather that served in the Army. But you make assumptions before you know the full story.
Why I think Joe Paterno is a excellent hero and role model for kids of today.
Joe Paterno preached to do more than yourself, to commit to excellence. Joe Paterno donated millions on millions of dollars to Universities, charities, special olympics, etc. He preached that you are a student-athlete, not an athlete. Most of the buildings, books in the libraries, and many of the things you see at that institution today are because of Joe Paterno. Did he win a lot of games? He sure did, but he changed many many more lives than people are giving credit for, more than any single one of us that bash/converse on this forum will ever do.
The child abuse case will forever haunt his legacy, and quite frankly it should, but it should not hold a dark shadow of the 60+ years of work that he did. Phil Knight, CEO of Nike said it best at the funeral today at State College, "If there is a villain in this tragedy, it lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno's response." Could Joe Paterno could've done more, yes he could, but he did what probably any of us would've have done. If you say you would've done more, hopefully you will never know how you will face a situation as quite as bad as the one at Penn State.
You can go ahead and say I'm supporting a child abuser and Joe Paterno is going to hell. In my own opinion, Joe Paterno will always be a hero of mine as I aspire into my football coaching career.
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I'd like to know where I compared Joe Paterno to a Veteran of war. I'm offended that you would think that I would put sports figures above our veterans...considering that my father was a marine and was in Grenada, had 3 great great uncles die in WW2, 4 great Uncles that fought in Vietnam, and 2 grandfather that served in the Army. But you make assumptions before you know the full story.
Why I think Joe Paterno is a excellent hero and role model for kids of today.
Joe Paterno preached to do more than yourself, to commit to excellence. Joe Paterno donated millions on millions of dollars to Universities, charities, special olympics, etc. He preached that you are a student-athlete, not an athlete. Most of the buildings, books in the libraries, and many of the things you see at that institution today are because of Joe Paterno. Did he win a lot of games? He sure did, but he changed many many more lives than people are giving credit for, more than any single one of us that bash/converse on this forum will ever do.
The child abuse case will forever haunt his legacy, and quite frankly it should, but it should not hold a dark shadow of the 60+ years of work that he did. Phil Knight, CEO of Nike said it best at the funeral today at State College, "If there is a villain in this tragedy, it lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno's response." Could Joe Paterno could've done more, yes he could, but he did what probably any of us would've have done. If you say you would've done more, hopefully you will never know how you will face a situation as quite as bad as the one at Penn State.
You can go ahead and say I'm supporting a child abuser and Joe Paterno is going to hell. In my own opinion, Joe Paterno will always be a hero of mine as I aspire into my football coaching career.
:lol You still using the word hero
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:lol You still using the word hero
Your point is what?
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It wasn't his responsibility to report anything to the police.
He was not legally obligated to report anything to the police (though that is debatable).
IMO he had a moral responsibility to do so and I think a majority of people do as well, but it is a judgement call. People who hide behind the 'legal argument' are just equivocating.
Why McQueary wasn't fired as well I don't understand.
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respect to dedalos, del, etc.
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I think I can sum this up for those having trouble understanding:
If you even suspect child molestation you should contact the police... END OF STORY! If you're wrong then you just have to live with the embarrassment. If you just tell someone who isn't in law enforcement you aren't much better than the person doing the crime. It's really not that complicated.
If this was any other person, everyone on here would be saying what an idiot he was. But since he was famous, people try to defend this behavior. It's kind of scary actually. For his sake I think he's lucky to have passed and not have to face what will be revealed.
Will add I agree with an above post. If you don't have children it's much harder to understand. The thought of someone doing that to my kid would make me want to go all wookie on them. It's deplorable and any excuse made doesn't make up for it.
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Yes he was agreat football coach
did anyone mention that jerry Sandusky had an office on campus until he was arrested?
I am confused some people say JoePa was a great guy and that he did not know the details of the "horse play" going on.
some of those same people talk about whata great leader he was and how he had great power and knew everything that happened on Penn state grounds.
my feeling is they all tried to keep it hush hush to protect the football program,and JoePa was right in the thick of it he was afterall the most powerfull guy on campus.
sad really that everyone has forgotten the multiple young boys that were violated and tossed aside.
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Why I think Joe Paterno is a excellent hero and role model for kids of today.
You do realize that Paterno knew about the accusations about Sandusky as early as 1998, right? You do realize the idolized hero, Joe Paterno, waited to report it, not to police but to Administration? In Paterno's own words, "“I didn’t want to interfere with their weekends" . What a great hero! He should be idolized by everyone as a pillar of society! Paterno clearly puts the needs of himself, Administration, and the football program ahead of a child. Yes, it is a shame that one event (or one person like Sandusky) can tarnish a good career and the life of Paterno, but if Paterno had done the right thing and followed through in making sure the police were involved, none of the black cloud above his past would exist right now.
While we are talking about villains, Mike McQreary is still a bigger villain than Paterno. He didn't stop Sandusky in the middle of the act, waited to report it to his boss, Paterno, and never made sure it was followed through upon. So, instead of removing him for a complete lack of proper protocol and character, he STILL has a job at Penn State. In fact, in addition to coaching, he is also doing some of the recruiting for the college. How can someone with a complete lack of common sense and moral character assess applicants that wish to attend the college. Oh, that is right, football trumps it all, including the welfare of children.
Even bigger villains than Paterno or even McQreary is Admiistration; Curley and Shultz, who lacked not only good moral character, but were willing to use kids as fodder to keep their jobs and the football program intact. I am not a vengeful person, but part of me wishes they get their just rewards in the shower room in prison.
A lot of villains in this unfolding drama, even the fans are willing to put football or idolized hero-worship ahead of the truth. Too bad, this event could of been a spring board in a push to protect children instead of the same status quo.
edit: I wish I had proof read that before I posted; grammatical errors were corrected.
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I know I'm not making any friends in this thread, and perhaps my comments have been a bit strong but I wouldn't take any of them back.
I've seen too many kids destroyed and many of those abused have stories much in common. Pedophiles tend to perform their nefarious acts and often aren't caught long after they have abused many kids. The reason for it is they often go unreported and/or people tend not to completely trust the victim or fail to take the allegation seriously. I will bet good money Sandusky has been abusing kids most his life, but never had to face justice. Watching a teaching institution allow one of these monsters to skate numerous times (and therefore abusing more kids) and seeing people defend the actions of even one person involved is absolutely revolting to me.
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Well it does not surprise me that those who would so easily demonize Joe Paterno, would quickly jump to demonize posters in this thread who would even think to defend him. :rolleyes:
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Well it does not surprise me that those who would so easily demonize Joe Paterno, would quickly jump to demonize posters in this thread who would even think to defend him. :rolleyes:
what are you defending him from?
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Well it does not surprise me that those who would so easily demonize Joe Paterno, would quickly jump to demonize posters in this thread who would even think to defend him. :rolleyes:
Oh there you are. I thought you made a run for it. So, yeah, what are you defending him from?
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Excerpt from an article online:
"In the morning Thursday, I met Jack Harris, a retired Air Force colonel from Colorado, in the hotel lobby over breakfast. He graduated from Penn State in 1969, and talked about meeting with Paterno. It was 1966, Harris’ sophomore year, and he was homesick and a little lost at Penn State. His mother, worried he would drop out of school, had called an adviser to keep an eye on him.
Then one day, he was walking to the football game and, "All of a sudden, I hear this high, squeaky voice," Harris said, "'Hey, where you going?'"
Harris said he and Paterno walked together for half an hour, by happenstance. And Harris talked about missing home, getting a pep talk from Paterno. Harris credited that moment, in part, for turning him around, showing him that someone cared about him.
Even if it was a football coach he would never talk to again.
Eventually, Harris went on to his career in the Air Force, he said, and always made a point to talk with young soldiers to help."
Not everything the guy did was to cover up some crime or to promote the football program. Some of us remember things like this and choose to focus on them right now and not the things he did wrong. Doesn't mean we aren't sad or angry, but there's a time and place for it and in my opinion it isn't right after the guy died.
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I know I'm not making any friends in this thread, and perhaps my comments have been a bit strong but I wouldn't take any of them back.
Or maybe you are making some friends and you are finding out who you don;t want to be friends with?
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Oh there you are. I thought you made a run for it. So, yeah, what are you defending him from?
I already said my 2 cents, as did others. Would you like me to copy and paste posts for you?
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I already said my 2 cents, as did others. Would you like me to copy and paste posts for you?
No thank you, I was just asking just in case you came up with new evidence of his Sainthood
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No thank you, I was just asking just in case you came up with new evidence of his Sainthood
:lol
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It is always easy to demonize someone when they are not around, especially when there is no possible chance of hearing what they have to say about it. Speaking ill of the deceased doesn't really make the one heaving the insults any more classy or morally pious than the person you are speaking ill about. Disagreeing with how things were handled is understandable but refusing to acknowledge the goods things that he did do, or saying that bad things that happen in one's career negate the good things is just plain ignorant. Regardless of how he may involved in this scandal, refusing to acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of happy, successful, morally sound people walking around whose inspiration came from Paterno or the Penn State institution is the sign of a small, ignorant, feeble minded and uneducated individual. These are the same people that throw all Germans that were alive during the 30's and 40's under the bus with the Nazi's. This is not to say that one outweighs the other, but there are too many folks that are too quick to discount any of the good when something bad happens.
Again, I will state that I would have probably contacted the police myself in that position (after taking time to think about it) and because I am not one to respond well to having my career held over my head, but why so much focus on Paterno, especially in the media? Is is just because he is the face of Penn State? There are many other players in this tragedy who are far more to blame that he is. This is not to say that he must not share some of the blame or that he is a saint of any kind, but to be vilified in the media, internet forums or at dinner conversations is the weak and easy way out, especially since he is deceased. It is very easy to heap as much blame as possible on the dead guy.
We know that Sandusky did it, but what about the others? I speak of McQueary, especially. How a younger, stronger and more physically fit (I would assume) person could walk into a scene like that in the shower and NOT grab that old-arse child molester by the back of the neck and introduce his face to the tiles on the shower wall at a high rate of speed is absolutely beyond me. I could possibly understand a slight pause from the shock of stumbling upon a scene such as that, but not reacting to it physically, with aggression towards someone doing that to a child totally boggles the mind.
Also, there is all this talk of how folks with kids have a different stance on the matter. Well, I have kids and there are questions that I am obliged to ask with regard to the victims that had parents (I know some of these kids were foster children)...
Why would you let your kids sleep at a strange man's, or any other person's house that did not have children of their own the same age as your, alone, without it being a "team" slumber party?
Why would you have not educated your children about the dangers of pedophiles, how to react if it were to happen to them and the dire importance of telling you (as the parent) if anyone had tried to get fresh with them?
Why did the parents of the children that had the police and DA confront Sandusky not push the issue further than a preliminary investigation/interview after all of the authorities in Happy Valley threw their hands in the air and said "Oops, sorry, not enough to proceed with this" If they believed their kids, why was the situation not pressed any more?
Lastly, and just some food for thought. If anyone in this community were in put in Paterno's position, and had to choose between providing for your family or risking your career for some anonymous, homeless children that you would probably never meet and says that they would have acted without weighing out the consequences of their actions first is either a complete fool or a liar.
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First you defended those Philly fans, now this. Congratulations to you sir, you are a grade A scum bucket.
Lastly, and just some food for thought. If anyone in this community were in put in Paterno's position, and had to choose between providing for your family or risking your career for some anonymous, homeless children that you would probably never meet and says that they would have acted without weighing out the consequences of their actions first is either a complete fool or a liar.
Seriously, this has to be the dumbest thing I've read on the entire interwebz. I would explain why, but you're far too stupid to comprehend so I'll save the electrons.
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First you defended those Philly fans, now this. Congratulations to you sir, you are a grade A scum bucket.
Seriously, this has to be the dumbest thing I've read on the entire interwebz. I would explain why, but you're far too stupid to comprehend so I'll save the electrons.
Looks evil when you take it out of context, doesn't it? :)
Nice name-calling and excellent straw-man. I'll admit, I almost bought it.
You certainly took the bait, didn't ya? Hook, line, and sinker. I couldn't have done better on the opening day of trout season in a stocked stream being the only angler there. I suppose you have never heard of a Devil's advocate? The sheer speed of your response was the best part. I didn't think I could control the way someone reacted to what I wrote so quickly.
Congrats :aok
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Lastly, and just some food for thought. If anyone in this community were in put in Paterno's position, and had to choose between providing for your family or risking your career for some anonymous, homeless children that you would probably never meet and says that they would have acted without weighing out the consequences of their actions first is either a complete fool or a liar.
What an idiotic thing to say, in addition to being a false dilema. Nobody gets fired for reporting child rape to the police, what flipping planet do you live on. And as if some homeless child is less deserving of protection from sexual abuse.
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Excellent speeches going on currently at the public funeral. Its on ESPN right now if anyone cares too watch.
So much love to the man, excellent role model, and a hero for kids trying to do it the right way. :aok
Blinded by the light.
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"If there is a villain in this tragedy, it lies in that investigation, not in Joe Paterno's response," -Phil Knight, Nike CEO
Blind leading the blind.
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Blinded by the light.
Seriously
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First you defended those Philly fans, now this. Congratulations to you sir, you are a grade A scum bucket.
Seriously, this has to be the dumbest thing I've read on the entire interwebz. I would explain why, but you're far too stupid to comprehend so I'll save the electrons.
Paterno didnt make the choice he did because he thought he was at risk, he made the choice he did because he thought that was what he should have done (take it up the ladder). Joe simply did not know of the severity of the issue at the time it was told to him.
and Tec.... be smarter than the average guy and hold fast your tongue! Calling someone stupid brings you down to their level. ;)
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What an idiotic thing to say, in addition to being a false dilema. Nobody gets fired for reporting child rape to the police, what flipping planet do you live on. And as if some homeless child is less deserving of protection from sexual abuse.
Where did I say anything about being fired? There are worse thing than being fired. Also, never did I say that that homeless children should not be afforded protection.
It was a hypothetical question, never once did I advocate either choice. It was to prove the point that what how some folks claim they would react is a complete load of crap because, until one is in that situation, one cannot know how exactly they would react and that acting without thinking, in any situation is foolish.
In addition,I prefer the term false dichotomy over false dilemma, but to each his own. In either case you are wrong, there were not other options to choose from. Only two, telling the police or not telling the police, which does not make it a false dilemma.
Thanks for playing :aok
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Why I think Joe Paterno is a excellent hero and role model for kids of today.
Joe Paterno preached to do more than yourself, to commit to excellence. Joe Paterno donated millions on millions of dollars to Universities, charities, special olympics, etc. He preached that you are a student-athlete, not an athlete. Most of the buildings, books in the libraries, and many of the things you see at that institution today are because of Joe Paterno. Did he win a lot of games? He sure did, but he changed many many more lives than people are giving credit for, more than any single one of us that bash/converse on this forum will ever do.
In the end he failed himself and penn state. He ended up not doing more than himself and no committing to excellence. He ended up contributing to some kids being hurt for life.
As for donating to all the charities... I see folks who screw people all week then go to church on sunday and they think all is well. A person is what he is.... not what he does. I imagine if you check on sandusky you'll see he donated millions and we know he opened a charity that "helped" children.
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Blinded by the light.
Got my sunglasses on and can see clearly.
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Got my sunglasses on and can see clearly.
Obviously rose colored.
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What an idiotic thing to say, in addition to being a false dilema. Nobody gets fired for reporting child rape to the police, what flipping planet do you live on. And as if some homeless child is less deserving of protection from sexual abuse.
What if you're wrong? I would be extremely hesitant to report to the police anything of this gravity if it's not something I witnessed personally or had some other form of proof.
You're guilty until proven innocent with stuff like that and even if you ARE innocent, you're still guilty for being accused. Would you throw someone you've worked professionally with for that long under the bus because of something an up and coming bright eyed kid says?
I'd think twice and can see how one would go through channels. Accusations like that are more dangerous and far reaching than a loaded gun in the wrong hands. I can't say how I would react had I been in Paternos shoes since I wasn't there. I bet the "call the police immediately" crowd would have some thinking to do as well.
It's one thing to say what you'd do, it's another to actually do it when you're playing for keeps. If you can't see how Paterno did what he did, which SHOULD have been enough, then you're not looking at this objectively. I certainly can and I don't believe his own personal career or "the program" weighed into the equation nearly as much as the delicate gravity of the accusations.
Demonize those who did investigate and cover up. Those ultra melons disappeared a DA! That order doesn't come from a football coach fellas. Much bigger works at play here.
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What if you're wrong? I would be extremely hesitant to report to the police anything of this gravity if it's not something I witnessed personally or had some other form of proof.
You're guilty until proven innocent with stuff like that and even if you ARE innocent, you're still guilty for being accused. Would you throw someone you've worked professionally with for that long under the bus because of something an up and coming bright eyed kid says?
I'd think twice and can see how one would go through channels. Accusations like that are more dangerous and far reaching than a loaded gun in the wrong hands. I can't say how I would react had I been in Paternos shoes since I wasn't there. I bet the "call the police immediately" crowd would have some thinking to do as well.
It's one thing to say what you'd do, it's another to actually do it when you're playing for keeps. If you can't see how Paterno did what he did, which SHOULD have been enough, then you're not looking at this objectively. I certainly can and I don't believe his own personal career or "the program" weighed into the equation nearly as much as the delicate gravity of the accusations.
Demonize those who did investigate and cover up. Those ultra melons disappeared a DA! That order doesn't come from a football coach fellas. Much bigger works at play here.
+1
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What an idiotic thing to say, in addition to being a false dilema. Nobody gets fired for reporting child rape to the police, what flipping planet do you live on. And as if some homeless child is less deserving of protection from sexual abuse.
No but people do get sued for making false accusations. Or accusations based on hearsay. Big time coaches and colleges are particularly susceptible.
Had he reported it and the report turned out to be false. that is what he was leaving himself and the school in for.
Its not like something like this would have been kept quiet.
We all look at the situation and say he should have done this or that. Or we would have done this or that.
But. We have the benefit of hindsight knowing already how its turned out. so it quite easy for all of us to say "shoulda,coulda woulda".
But as the saying goes. "Hindsight is always 20/20"
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It is always easy to demonize someone when they are not around, especially when there is no possible chance of hearing what they have to say about it. Speaking ill of the deceased doesn't really make the one heaving the insults any more classy or morally pious than the person you are speaking ill about. Disagreeing with how things were handled is understandable but refusing to acknowledge the goods things that he did do, or saying that bad things that happen in one's career negate the good things is just plain ignorant. Regardless of how he may involved in this scandal, refusing to acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of happy, successful, morally sound people walking around whose inspiration came from Paterno or the Penn State institution is the sign of a small, ignorant, feeble minded and uneducated individual. These are the same people that throw all Germans that were alive during the 30's and 40's under the bus with the Nazi's. This is not to say that one outweighs the other, but there are too many folks that are too quick to discount any of the good when something bad happens.
I always told my grandma not be upset with the Germans. They were just following orders and most of them were good. It was the mad man that did everything. When they put the women and children in a church and set it on fire after they machine gunned all men over 12 (I guess if you are under 12 you can only get burned, not shot) it was the mad man doing it. They had no responsibility them selves. Good to see that you compare garbage to garbage though. I am sure someone would stand up for them also explaining how the mad man did it and they just followed orders and they were good family men, blah bla bla.
So, in your example, please state the good that came out of the Germans in WWII that makes up for the the bad things the mad man made them do. Thank you in advance.
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What if you're wrong? I would be extremely hesitant to report to the police anything of this gravity if it's not something I witnessed personally or had some other form of proof.
You're guilty until proven innocent with stuff like that and even if you ARE innocent, you're still guilty for being accused. Would you throw someone you've worked professionally with for that long under the bus because of something an up and coming bright eyed kid says?
I'd think twice and can see how one would go through channels. Accusations like that are more dangerous and far reaching than a loaded gun in the wrong hands. I can't say how I would react had I been in Paternos shoes since I wasn't there. I bet the "call the police immediately" crowd would have some thinking to do as well.
It's one thing to say what you'd do, it's another to actually do it when you're playing for keeps. If you can't see how Paterno did what he did, which SHOULD have been enough, then you're not looking at this objectively. I certainly can and I don't believe his own personal career or "the program" weighed into the equation nearly as much as the delicate gravity of the accusations.
Demonize those who did investigate and cover up. Those ultra melons disappeared a DA! That order doesn't come from a football coach fellas. Much bigger works at play here.
No but people do get sued for making false accusations. Or accusations based on hearsay. Big time coaches and colleges are particularly susceptible.
Had he reported it and the report turned out to be false. that is what he was leaving himself and the school in for.
Its not like something like this would have been kept quiet.
We all look at the situation and say he should have done this or that. Or we would have done this or that.
But. We have the benefit of hindsight knowing already how its turned out. so it quite easy for all of us to say "shoulda,coulda woulda".
But as the saying goes. "Hindsight is always 20/20"
The above are prime examples of why I proposed the "food for thought" question (aside from trying to see who the true drama queens are).
Anyone that wants to proclaim what they would do in a situation like that, has either never had to make a hard life decision or is a person that doesn't examine all facets and consequences of a situation before taking action, which is a dangerous way to live, at best. For me at least, the decision to alert my superiors would have been automatic. The decision to call the police however, would have been been something warranting some serious thought for all the reasons stated above. Once you report it to the police, you can't take it back. The media gets wind of it and runs like hell with it. In this modern age where the media plays a huge role in public opinion and if you are a prominent media figure, if you are wrong, it not only affects you but it affects your wife, children, grandchildren, etc. It is not a decision that one should make lightly, especially if you have already made your immediate superiors aware of it and were not a witness to the act, itself. Now, by the same token, if he did indeed know with 100% certainty that this behavior was continuing and continued to do nothing, he is every bit as guilty as Sandusky. Alas, he is gone and as the old saying goes, "Dead men don't tall no tales". Perhaps Paterno already got his, nobody will ever know the entire truth.
It is so easy to target a large media figure like Paterno since, regardless of whether or not he was at the top of his chain of command (which he wasn't), he has become, after 60 years, the face of Penn State. Up until now, I would wager that 99% of the people on the street, whether football fans or not, would not recognize the names of any Penn State officials but they would surely recognize the name Joe Paterno.
What I have to keep dwelling on is the guy that has gotten the least media coverage out of all this, but should be gracing an 8 x 12 with Sandusky, is McQueary. Why is he not being crucified in the media? I would bet that it is because it is not nearly as big of a scoop as slinging the name Joe Paterno around. It should have ended right then and there. That would have been an excellent exception to the think first, act second rule. He should have beaten the guy within an inch of his life and called the cops. Then there would have not been a need to worry about him being wrong or whether or not his superiors could have threatened him with his career if they indeed have a wish to try to sweep it under the rug. The police would have came, it would not have been hearsay, and it would have been documented right then and there without a good chance of getting covered up. The only problem I would have had with controlling my actions in a situation like that would have been whether or not I could have stopped beating the guy long enough to call the police.
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Where did I say anything about being fired? There are worse thing than being fired. Also, never did I say that that homeless children should not be afforded protection.
It was a hypothetical question, never once did I advocate either choice. It was to prove the point that what how some folks claim they would react is a complete load of crap because, until one is in that situation, one cannot know how exactly they would react and that acting without thinking, in any situation is foolish.
In addition,I prefer the term false dichotomy over false dilemma, but to each his own. In either case you are wrong, there were not other options to choose from. Only two, telling the police or not telling the police, which does not make it a false dilemma.
Thanks for playing :aok
Tedious...
Regarding being fired, you says "providing for one's family and risking a career". That's just another way of saying losing your job, or that your job is at risk. There is no need to hedge around the word 'fired', because the result is the same, and it is the intent in your missive.
You go on to say "for some homeless children you would probably never meet". Rather than just say 'children' or victim, you chose to qualify it with 'homeless' and 'probably never meet'. The implication being that a homeless child you never meet somehow has less value, or isn't worth the risk of a career.
Lastly, the false dilemma lies where you attribute a risk of career vs telling the police. There is no risk to ones career for relaying a first hand account of a child rape to a police officer. That would not be a lie, that would not bear false witness, nor for that matter is it even a false accusation. (And frankly, if Paterno was fired for reporting a child rape, instead of unruly protest there would have been a lynch mob)
It is apparent to me that Paterno chose a path to protect the institution rather than that of a child victim. I mean, why let a little shower rape get in the way of all the football fun, right?
I'm sorry if peoples' loyalties to the man or organization prevent them from seeing that.
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I always told my grandma not be upset with the Germans. They were just following orders and most of them were good. It was the mad man that did everything. When they put the women and children in a church and set it on fire after they machine gunned all men over 12 (I guess if you are under 12 you can only get burned, not shot) it was the mad man doing it. They had no responsibility them selves. Good to see that you compare garbage to garbage though. I am sure someone would stand up for them also explaining how the mad man did it and they just followed orders and they were good family men, blah bla bla.
So, in your example, please state the good that came out of the Germans in WWII that makes up for the the bad things the mad man made them do. Thank you in advance.
I'll commend you on the point that you are really good at trying to put words into other folk's mouths. Again, an easy thing to do when taking someone out of context. Again a perfect example of a straw man. Instead of debunking anything that pertains to this discussion, you attack a completely different subject, make a whole paragraph out of it and make demands that I defend a position that has no bearing on the current discussion. Good job <golf clap>
I used that analogy as an example of an Inductive Argument and of how folks are much to quick to make judgments upon a situation that they have secondhand knowledge of, at best. Failing to acknowledge that the good deeds that someone has done in life are completely negated by the bad things that they have done is a notion borne of ignorance. If there are people that have benefited from good that someone has done in this world, that does not mean that once that same person (reaping the rewards of the benefits he has received) suddenly loses those benefits. All the football players Paterno has coached do not suddenly become crappy players because of his involvement in this situation. I also does not mean that the amount of good he has done will excuse or "even out" the bad things.
It was simply an example of once someone screws up, lots of folks tend to discount and not acknowledge any good that that person has ever done in their life as if it magically vanished all of a sudden. This is very ignorant and narrow-minded to think in this fashion.
But, to answer you question, I think that the autobahn and Volkswagons are pretty cool :aok
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I'll commend you on the point that you are really good at trying to put words into other folk's mouths. Again, an easy thing to do when taking someone out of context. Again a perfect example of a straw man. Instead of debunking anything that pertains to this discussion, you attack a completely different subject, make a whole paragraph out of it and make demands that I defend a position that has no bearing on the current discussion. Good job <golf clap>
I used that analogy as an example of an Inductive Argument and of how folks are much to quick to make judgments upon a situation that they have secondhand knowledge of, at best. Failing to acknowledge that the good deeds that someone has done in life are completely negated by the bad things that they have done is a notion borne of ignorance. If there are people that have benefited from good that someone has done in this world, that does not mean that once that same person (reaping the rewards of the benefits he has received) suddenly loses those benefits. All the football players Paterno has coached do not suddenly become crappy players because of his involvement in this situation. I also does not mean that the amount of good he has done will excuse or "even out" the bad things.
It was simply an example of once someone screws up, lots of folks tend to discount and not acknowledge any good that that person has ever done in their life as if it magically vanished all of a sudden. This is very ignorant and narrow-minded to think in this fashion.
But, to answer you question, I think that the autobahn and Volkswagons are pretty cool :aok
And now you know how bad your analogy was. Then again, you think the autobahn outweighs the death of my uncle? Or did I put words in your mouth again?
I know you are probably kidding, but can you see why that analogy is bad? Yeah, VW are cool, but millions of people dead is so bad we could have done just fine without the VWs.
Yes Joe had done some good things but the thing he did not do outweighs those. We could have done with out his good things if one of those kids was speared. Then again, maybe you think that he did so much good, a child molested here and there was probably worth it.
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And now you know how bad your analogy was. Then again, you think the autobahn outweighs the death of my uncle? Or did I put words in your mouth again?
I know you are probably kidding, but can you see why that analogy is bad? Yeah, VW are cool, but millions of people dead is so bad we could have done just fine without the VWs.
Yes Joe had done some good things but the thing he did not do outweighs those. We could have done with out his good things if one of those kids was speared. Then again, maybe you think that he did so much good, a child molested here and there was probably worth it.
:huh
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Tedious...
Regarding being fired, you says "providing for one's family and risking a career". That's just another way of saying losing your job, or that your job is at risk. There is no need to hedge around the word 'fired', because the result is the same, and it is the intent in your missive.
You go on to say "for some homeless children you would probably never meet". Rather than just say 'children' or victim, you chose to qualify it with 'homeless' and 'probably never meet'. The implication being that a homeless child you never meet somehow has less value, or isn't worth the risk of a career.
Lastly, the false dilemma lies where you attribute a risk of career vs telling the police. There is no risk to ones career for relaying a first hand account of a child rape to a police officer. That would not be a lie, that would not bear false witness, nor for that matter is it even a false accusation. (And frankly, if Paterno was fired for reporting a child rape, instead of unruly protest there would have been a lynch mob)
It is apparent to me that Paterno chose a path to protect the institution rather than that of a child victim. I mean, why let a little shower rape get in the way of all the football fun, right?
I'm sorry if peoples' loyalties to the man or organization prevent them from seeing that.
I will concede that using those terms may have been a bit different of what my meaning was. It was more about bringing on Stigma from the media before finding out the whole truth
Well, because most of them were, under the "gentile wing" of Sandusky, hence his easy access to vulnerable and easily impressionable children that would more likely than not, have anyone that they could confide in about the molestations
If you are referring to a false dilemma in the context of a fallacious argument, this would not be an example. A false dilemma would be forcing a black or white decision upon a situation where there were other options available. In this case, there were only two options; tell the police or not. Unfortunately for a lot of folks, least of all the children, he chose poorly
Now you are just being facetious, which is unbecoming of someone of your apparent intellect
I really have no loyalty to Penn State, but speaking ill of the dead is always in bad form, and coming to conclusions when the only knowledge that most casual observers have has been given them by an over bloated, sensationalist media is ludicrous.
Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see.
When a panel of 12 or judge makes a conclusion after due-process has been followed, I will surely have my bucket of stones ready to throw. Until such time, I refuse to have my opinion formed by cut and pasted video and audio clips that the media is trying to force-feed me.
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And now you know how bad your analogy was. Then again, you think the autobahn outweighs the death of my uncle? Or did I put words in your mouth again?
I know you are probably kidding, but can you see why that analogy is bad? Yeah, VW are cool, but millions of people dead is so bad we could have done just fine without the VWs.
Yes Joe had done some good things but the thing he did not do outweighs those. We could have done with out his good things if one of those kids was speared. Then again, maybe you think that he did so much good, a child molested here and there was probably worth it.
Perhaps it was bad and of course I was kidding, but if one focuses on the bad, one will only see the bad and vice versa. To be serious, if humans have realized the warning signs and used the Nazi way of life as an example of what not to do, then yes some good has come of it.
Good and evil acts do not negate each other. The good should stand on its own and not be forgotten and the bad should be used as an example to of what not to do the next time. If we do not learn from our mistakes we are doomed to failure.
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An awful lot of mudslinging and fancy words going on here just to say Paterno was a lowlife for what he did! :headscratch:
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well... this conversation spiraled out of control. :bolt:
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An awful lot of mudslinging and fancy words going on here just to say Paterno was a lowlife for what he did! :headscratch:
he's not a lowlife, he screwed up for sure but calling him a lowlife is out of order. I have no respect for the guy as I dont even know who he is nor do I care to know. but it pisses me off that somebody that should know better didnt do more to protect kids, specially somebody in the public eye like him. he didnt want to get involved is what really happened, understandable but not excusable. a low life he's not but he isnt a hero either. his reputation is tarnished in the eyes of many not because of what he did but because of what he didnt do. he did nothing wrong but he didnt do the right thing either.
semp
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See Rules #2, #4, and #10