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General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Kazan_HB on January 23, 2012, 02:00:26 AM

Title: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on January 23, 2012, 02:00:26 AM
The first preview

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1253/ahss31.png)

(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8017/ahss41.png)

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8003/ahss51.png)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Greebo on January 23, 2012, 05:56:48 AM
Looking good Kazan,.  :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: VonMessa on January 23, 2012, 06:26:27 AM
 :aok

Only thing missing is screenies of it wasting some Spitfires  :x
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on January 23, 2012, 09:02:40 AM
Nice Job :aok . Looks like she has just had a valet servicing.. :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on January 23, 2012, 10:14:58 AM
Nice choice!

I've wanted to do a white nose for a while, as well. Now with the skin cap doubled maybe I will! (too many other skins in progress though, so I won't stake any claims just yet)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: lyric1 on January 23, 2012, 02:40:49 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: bacon8tr on January 23, 2012, 09:21:46 PM
Sweet looking 109.  :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on January 24, 2012, 07:53:36 AM
thx :)
Bump mapping test.
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5483/ahss9kopia.png)
     
(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/3862/ahss8kopia.png)

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6817/ahss7kopia.png)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Raphael on January 24, 2012, 01:41:06 PM
it is looking great!
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on January 24, 2012, 01:58:42 PM
it is looking great!
THX :)

I learned from the best skinners here
thank you
 :salute

Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: DEECONX on January 24, 2012, 02:37:17 PM
Yeah, looks awesome man!  :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Devil 505 on January 24, 2012, 02:44:44 PM
Sweet looking 109.  :aok

I did notice however that the crosses on the upper wings are incorrect. You shoould use the black filled crosses with the thin white areas and black pinstripes on the outside.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on January 25, 2012, 06:49:39 AM
and again the problem is, what color was the Bf 109?
There are several information about the Bf109.
I have a book "The Great Air Battles of World War II."
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ZQJPK95VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

It is a white crosses, without white tips
White cross for me fits better for later aircraft
 :headscratch:  :bhead

Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on January 25, 2012, 10:00:04 AM
I wouldn't use that book if it says white outline crosses on a Bf109E-3.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on January 25, 2012, 11:23:25 AM
Examples:

(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/472692-2/Franz+von+Werra__s+shot+down+109)

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRFymv4wkjNiUozh-6-6zKPlSRuwl0H6w29sannh0TP4qzpk33WqF4NyNb7)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/32/pics/2_166.jpg)

skin il2 sturmovik
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/Bf-109E-JG3.2-(+-Werra/images/N8-Bf-109E-II.JG3-(+-Franz-von-Werra-1940.bmp)

but I want to make it whit black crosses :)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on January 25, 2012, 03:05:31 PM
I think white crosses are a false interpretation of the photo.

It's got some bleed out and it looks like it wasn't developed all the way. Photography chemicals and emulsions were in their infancy at the time and this is why many photos are not so clear from that time. I would say that the cross on that wing has the black on it, but the photo is of such quality that the image didn't show up too well for the upper wings. Maybe it's a combination of the film quality and perhaps sand covering the wings (it doesn't look "normal" and something covering the wing makes a bit of sense). This could be lowering the contrast and making it hard to tell the difference between the green and the black.

Go with the black in the cross. Also note the photo shows the lichtblau is sprayed up over the leading edge of the wing just a bit. This is not the first plane I've seen that on for this time frame.

You can find another example here:
http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/camo/bob/bob_camo.htm
(down a bit)


Here's a different JG3 plane from late 1940:

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/Bf-109E-JG3-(Y9+)-Lutzow/images/1-Bf-109E-JG3-(Y9+)-Lutzow.jpg)

Note the black crosses. It was the national symbol for their air force. They all followed that pattern at this time.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Devil 505 on January 25, 2012, 05:27:53 PM
Kazan, the simplified style cross you have was not introduced until 1942. I was also used in conjunction with the simplified fuselage cross which was usually filled with the darkest cammo color.

You should use type 1 cross on the upper wing.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Germancrosstypes1.jpg)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on January 28, 2012, 07:39:12 AM
update without bump mapping

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7717/ahss12kopia.jpg)

(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7384/ahss13kopia.jpg)
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1301/ahss14kopia.jpg)

Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: TwinBoom on January 28, 2012, 07:46:54 PM
 :x very good my new skin when i fly E :cheers:
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Butcher on January 28, 2012, 07:49:05 PM
Enough with the Emil porno dude, next up you will be putting "sheep" next to it on the runway and selling a calender.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on January 28, 2012, 10:44:04 PM
Erm... One thing... You've got the "underside" crosses copied to the top of the wing. They were 2 different sizes and styles for uppers/lowers. Just in case you hadn't spotted that already :)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Greebo on January 29, 2012, 01:29:45 PM
This skin is coming along great Kazan, but there are a couple of little things I've noticed about it. Shouldn't the spinner have a much bigger centre hole on an E? Also it looks like the cowl MG troughs are the wrong shade of green.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on May 18, 2012, 08:28:41 AM
Small update
bump mapping on :)

(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4628/ahss17kopia.jpg)

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/6120/ahss21kopia.jpg)

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3557/ahss23kopia.jpg)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5646/ahss24kopia.jpg)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Raphael on May 18, 2012, 11:41:21 AM
call 911 I'm having a heart attack! looking great!!! :salute
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on May 18, 2012, 11:57:52 AM
Thank you!  :cheers:
I need some time.
This is not yet finished
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Devil 505 on May 18, 2012, 01:51:00 PM
Looks great.  :aok

I do see two issues though.
1. You still have the incorrect cross on the upper wings. You need this one. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Black_Balkan_cross_of_Luftwaffe_1935-1938.svg/240px-Black_Balkan_cross_of_Luftwaffe_1935-1938.svg.png)
2. The placement of red and black on the spinner should be swapped. Look at the picture of the crashed aircraft, the band on the rear of the spinner is lighter than the wedge that runs to the tip.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on May 18, 2012, 02:47:40 PM
Also... aside from the recurring cross problems, let me ask you something:

(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lorz72wGny1qk5s5jo1_500.png)

Where are the huge massive dome rivets all over the fuselage and wings?

(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/472692-2/Franz+von+Werra__s+shot+down+109)

Even here, shot down, crashed, you don't get such massive dome-head rivets.

Those are flush rivets. If you're going to add rivets that otherwise were invisible from any angle, you have to do it in moderation. You balance it so that it adds something but not so much it takes over.

Your rivets are extremely overly done. I know this is subjective, but it looks a bit bad.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: ink on May 18, 2012, 03:01:57 PM
Also... aside from the recurring cross problems, let me ask you something:

(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lorz72wGny1qk5s5jo1_500.png)

Where are the huge massive dome rivets all over the fuselage and wings?

(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/472692-2/Franz+von+Werra__s+shot+down+109)

Even here, shot down, crashed, you don't get such massive dome-head rivets.

Those are flush rivets. If you're going to add rivets that otherwise were invisible from any angle, you have to do it in moderation. You balance it so that it adds something but not so much it takes over.

Your rivets are extremely overly done. I know this is subjective, but it looks a bit bad.

I don't want to...... :D


but I have to agree
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on May 18, 2012, 05:05:49 PM
Also... aside from the recurring cross problems, let me ask you something:

(http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lorz72wGny1qk5s5jo1_500.png)

Where are the huge massive dome rivets all over the fuselage and wings?

(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/472692-2/Franz+von+Werra__s+shot+down+109)

Even here, shot down, crashed, you don't get such massive dome-head rivets.

Those are flush rivets. If you're going to add rivets that otherwise were invisible from any angle, you have to do it in moderation. You balance it so that it adds something but not so much it takes over.

Your rivets are extremely overly done. I know this is subjective, but it looks a bit bad.

Believe me this is only the shadow. The rivets are not too big
Look at the picture my 109e. Are really too big?
This is a compromise. When I make small bump mapping. Then you can not see this.
 I know the rivets were almost flat (aerodynamics).
 This give a good question.
We need bump mapping?  :D
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on May 19, 2012, 11:10:41 AM
The shadow is part of it just as the bump mapping is. The shadow makes it look much more like giant dome head rivets.

That's just the wings, though. The non-shadowed rivets up and down on the sides seem way too dark/prominent as well.


2 other things that might be noted already:

1) You have some white line or miscoloration on the front windscreen armor.

2) Your upper cowling mottling does not tile along the seam very well. You will need to map it so that it's seamless. It's quite possible, just takes a little trial/error/checking to get right.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on May 19, 2012, 12:46:11 PM
The shadow is part of it just as the bump mapping is. The shadow makes it look much more like giant dome head rivets.

That's just the wings, though. The non-shadowed rivets up and down on the sides seem way too dark/prominent as well.


2 other things that might be noted already:

1) You have some white line or miscoloration on the front windscreen armor.

2) Your upper cowling mottling does not tile along the seam very well. You will need to map it so that it's seamless. It's quite possible, just takes a little trial/error/checking to get right.

Yes, I've just got a problem. If the UV mapping error?
No idea.  :bhead :bhead :bhead
Second problem is when two textures. The camouflage is blurred.
I still have to find a solution
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/296/uvmappingkopia.jpg)

Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on May 21, 2012, 02:54:02 AM
I hope this is better.
It was not easy  :)

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8286/ahss34.jpg)

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/899/ahss35.jpg)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Ruah on May 23, 2012, 12:33:23 AM
that is a really nice skin.

If I may ask for a small pet peeve - that the wing cross' are weathered a little. . . often people will just paste them on and they are too clear while the rest of the skin looks realistic. . . It is a big reason i really prefer the late war 'modern' cross' on the 109s.

but it is a brilliant skin
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Greebo on May 23, 2012, 12:49:37 AM
I would suggest making the black on all the markings a bit lighter, I usually use RGB 32/32/32 for black on markings and around 220 or 230 for white.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on May 23, 2012, 01:04:25 AM
Yes, I've just got a problem. If the UV mapping error?
No idea.  :bhead :bhead :bhead
Second problem is when two textures. The camouflage is blurred.
I still have to find a solution
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/296/uvmappingkopia.jpg)



I don't understand what you mean. It's not a UV mapping error. You just need to locate the actual seams and work around them.

The segment is a straight section of skin that is mapped. It has a border. You cannot rely on that border to be the demarcation of your camouflage. It's in the wrong place for typical LW camo anyway. You often have to make things look odd on the skin so that they look right on the in-game aircraft. This is due to stretching and mapping of the skin, but it's not necessarily an error.

For the section by the canopy, you have a gap, where the spray pattern on top does not match the spray patter on the side. This is one issue. That's just a matter of tweaking the spray patterns as 2 separate parts until both line up correctly.

For the section of the canopy by the cowling, what you are seeing is that your camo profile on the left/right sides simply doesn't match the upper part.

I'll give you some examples that may help you identify a better "curve" on the left/right parts, and help you identify the proper border of the parts.

Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Krusty on May 23, 2012, 01:08:58 AM
This one represents the line your camo most likely takes, and explains why you are getting the result you have.


EDIT: I see in your latest screenshot that you have solved this particular issue.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on May 24, 2012, 05:15:08 AM
update: specular and bump mapping on

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9312/ahss36kopia.jpg)

(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/6448/ahss37kopia.jpg)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: lyric1 on May 24, 2012, 09:24:49 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Raphael on May 24, 2012, 11:19:15 AM
Wow I SO wanna fly with this skin!!! I CALLED IT! I saw it first!  :noid
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Motherland on May 31, 2012, 06:55:19 PM
that is a really nice skin.

If I may ask for a small pet peeve - that the wing cross' are weathered a little. . . often people will just paste them on and they are too clear while the rest of the skin looks realistic. . . It is a big reason i really prefer the late war 'modern' cross' on the 109s.

but it is a brilliant skin
They should be clearer. The wing crosses and some other markings were done in a glossier paint that the rest of the aircraft. They always look pretty nice in photos, I think they were probably taken care of better on top of everything else. This should really be taken into account with the spec map as well.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Slash27 on June 01, 2012, 12:32:04 PM
Nice work Kazan.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Bino on June 01, 2012, 04:22:28 PM
I've always liked the '39-'40 cammo with the blue coming way up the sides of the fuselage.

Nice, Kazan.   :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: R 105 on June 07, 2012, 07:15:50 AM
 I love the paint on German war birds from both world wars. Nice work Kazan.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Ruah on June 22, 2012, 07:34:13 PM
lord, that is a beautiful skin. . .
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: LCADolby on June 24, 2012, 12:26:17 PM
If I start humping your leg, you'll know why  :D
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: VoX on July 20, 2012, 02:54:35 AM
Really nice looking skin, don't shoot me for this criticism though but I think it looks a bit odd with weathering on the leading edges of the wings and then nothing on the engine cowling? REally nice though and looking forward to flying it.

VoX.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: LCADolby on January 13, 2013, 11:27:34 PM
Any news on this skin?

 :salute
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Devil 505 on May 16, 2013, 10:59:56 PM
Hey Kazan, did you finish this one yet?
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on May 19, 2013, 08:44:48 AM
Hey Kazan, did you finish this one yet?
I sent it today
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Devil 505 on May 19, 2013, 06:29:17 PM
Most excellent.
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Latrobe on May 20, 2013, 12:34:38 AM
Not a yellow nose, but dang that looks nice!  :aok
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Franz Von Werra on June 17, 2013, 01:30:03 AM
Absolutely beautiful, thank you Kazan!   :x
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Franz Von Werra on August 12, 2013, 08:23:39 PM
Sagen sie mir, HTC, wo ist mein flugzeug!   :frown:
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on September 03, 2013, 10:10:04 PM
Rejected?!
"Skin looks like it was blown up from a smaller bitmap. Panel lines and markings are blurred from the distortion."  :headscratch:

Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on September 04, 2013, 08:26:41 AM
(http://imageshack.us/a/img20/9383/izbx.jpg)


(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/9887/k5o7.jpg)

Where is blur? Ok maybe is too clean.... but not blurred

Ghost, Show your skins please
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: VonMessa on September 04, 2013, 09:03:39 AM
 :headscratch:
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: Kazan_HB on September 06, 2013, 12:51:19 PM
Up....
what is wrong with my bf109?  :bhead
any answer?
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: VonMessa on September 06, 2013, 01:14:58 PM
Rejected?!
"Skin looks like it was blown up from a smaller bitmap. Panel lines and markings are blurred from the distortion."  :headscratch:



I was scratching my head at the same thing you were.

I'm sure there are some thing that I could pick apart upon very close inspection given enough time, as one would be able to do with any skin.

Do the panel lines line up with control surfaces, etc?
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: GhostCDB on September 06, 2013, 01:17:02 PM
(http://imageshack.us/a/img20/9383/izbx.jpg)


(http://imageshack.us/a/img22/9887/k5o7.jpg)

Where is blur? Ok maybe is too clean.... but not blurred

Ghost, Show your skins please


The 109E that I submitted ?
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: GhostCDB on September 06, 2013, 01:40:35 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/4byAnJa.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/M84VGXQ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/vRscBzP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/2qL0tNR.jpg)
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: GhostCDB on September 06, 2013, 01:42:43 PM
Maybe they confused mine with yours? I am re-doing this 109 to make it look a bit more clean.

 :salute
Title: Re: Bf109E3 skin Franz von Werra (W I P)
Post by: VonMessa on September 06, 2013, 01:43:56 PM
Skins, are half science, half art.

What is and is not good art is very subjective.

What we, as skinners, try to do is replicate someone else's art (camouflage).

I'm going to just throw my opinion out there and say that it is neigh impossible to completely and accurately repaint a 3D computer model to perfection.

The fact that we are trying to work in an environment of three dimensions but viewing it on a medium that only offers two dimensions is what precludes this.

Basically, we are only "fooling" the brain into seeing depth.  The same "depth" of a panel joint, rivet, etc that looks perfect from one angle, will probably never be perfect from all angles.  

Things that we give "depth" by shading, etc may look "real" from one perspective, especially when static yet perhaps that rivet that looks like it is sticking out doesn't cast a shadow, because it really does not have "height" in the virtual world.  Not in a skin, at least.

I know that I am not explaining myself correctly, so hopefully someone else understands me and can explain it better.   :lol