Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: bearclaw on January 27, 2012, 10:20:44 PM

Title: New jets making it fair
Post by: bearclaw on January 27, 2012, 10:20:44 PM
Gloster Meteor - First operational Allied fighter jet, entered Service July 27 1944., The first V-1 flying bombs "kill" was made by a Meteor on 4 August 1944 (another followed the same day). This was the first air downing of a jet-powered aircraft by another, although that achievement is usually ascribed to the battles between manned jet aircraft during the Korean War in November 1950.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bearclaw on January 27, 2012, 10:21:31 PM
Bell P-59 Airacomet - First USAAF jet to fly, never saw operational service, only 66 built before contract terminated
Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star - First operational jet fighter used by the United States Army Air Forces in 1945, grounded due to problems until after the war
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Pigslilspaz on January 27, 2012, 10:23:32 PM
Bell P-59 Airacomet - First USAAF jet to fly, never saw operational service, only 66 built before contract terminated
Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star - First operational jet fighter used by the United States Army Air Forces in 1945, grounded due to problems until after the war

And That's why it will never be added.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: wil3ur on January 28, 2012, 12:55:54 AM
So you want sub-par jets added to 'make it fair'?

I'd like to see the Meteor added as a plane like the 109, where it's crap in the wrong hands, but usuable for someone who knows what's going on.  I'd hardly call any WWII jets on par with the 262... and the fact it was still used into the Mid-50's by various air forces would add to the fact that it really was the premier jet fighter until the Mig15/F86 era.  Realistically, pilot to pilot, the meteor would have no chance against a 262.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Rob52240 on January 28, 2012, 03:38:32 AM
Why not just ask for 5-10k of bonus alt for fighting the dreaded deuce?
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 28, 2012, 07:34:11 AM
So you want sub-par jets added to 'make it fair'?

I'd like to see the Meteor added as a plane like the 109, where it's crap in the wrong hands, but usuable for someone who knows what's going on.  I'd hardly call any WWII jets on par with the 262
Meteor Mk III and He162 would both be somewhat competitive with the Me262, have strengths and weaknesses when compared with it.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: RTHolmes on January 28, 2012, 07:44:13 AM
Realistically, pilot to pilot, the meteor would have no chance against a 262.

I disagree, the F3 Meteor would turn much tighter and faster, have better climbrate, and better acceleration (apart from at very high speeds). The only advantages for the 262 are higher top speed, and possibly rollrate. I imagine it would be much like a Spit vs 190 fight.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: The Fugitive on January 28, 2012, 08:59:34 AM
You want jets, go play a jet game! I think we have too many jets as it is.  :mad:
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: SgtPappy on January 28, 2012, 01:39:25 PM
I'd always welcome more jets with open arms, but Fugitive reminds me of the H2H days where certain planes - like jets - could be banned.

Those were good days.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: USAF2010 on January 28, 2012, 04:14:44 PM
+1 for the Meteor. Would love it just for the fact of having an Allied jet.


Not to hijack, but this also sorta promotes having a Korea Arena  :rock
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: PanosGR on January 29, 2012, 11:21:03 AM
You want jets, go play a jet game! I think we have too many jets as it is.  :mad:
Say (http://)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/80c9c69773.jpg)

lol are you kidding me?
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: The Fugitive on January 29, 2012, 11:22:42 AM
Say (http://)(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x39/PanosGR/80c9c69773.jpg)

lol are you kidding me?

Not at all, Jets are the Devil!
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Selino631 on January 29, 2012, 11:34:49 AM
bearclaw, i like how you make a new post for every paragraph you want to type... way to try to stand out   :confused:

if your not familier with a keyboard. if you look down at it, there is something that says "Enter" if you press that key, it will


drop the words

down here

just like

that
got it?
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: 33Vortex on January 30, 2012, 06:15:01 AM
He162 would make for a interesting addition the Meteor would too, but I'm inclined to agree that more jets would take the game in a direction which is not desirable.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: MK-84 on January 30, 2012, 06:24:45 AM
He162 would make for a interesting addition the Meteor would too, but I'm inclined to agree that more jets would take the game in a direction which is not desirable.

How So?
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: 33Vortex on January 30, 2012, 06:56:11 AM
My perspective is that there are literally hundreds of props to add before taking the jets much further. While any aircraft added can be perked, there certainly are at least 100 props that have the potential to play a bigger role in scenarios and see much more use. For those of us who enjoy historical events this is much more important and rewarding than buzzing around the MA with the fastest plane in the game.

Fact of the matter is, historical events is what make AH truly unique. MMO historical events, no other game has this feature.

Examples just to name a few:

Avia B.534 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia_B-534) - Balkans
Gloster Gladiator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_Gladiator) - Finland, Africa
Ilyushin Il-4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4) - Eastern front
P-36 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_P-36_Hawk) - France 1940
MiG-3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiG-3) - Eastern front
Dewotoine D.520 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.520) France '40 & Europe '43-'44
IAR-81 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR-81) - Romania, Eastern front

I am of the opinion that each and every one of the few mentioned would add more content & flavor to the game than any jet possibly could.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Bino on January 30, 2012, 09:39:37 AM
...
and the fact it was still used into the Mid-50's by various air forces would add to the fact that it really was the premier jet fighter until the Mig15/F86 era
...

Not to argue over the relative performance of the 262 and other jets, but please cite your sources for the claim it was "used into the Mid-50's by various air forces".  

All I can find is that the Czechs (Avia) produced around a dozen - from spare parts - that were in service until the 1950's: http://www.military.cz/czech/air/avia/s92/default.htm (http://www.military.cz/czech/air/avia/s92/default.htm)

Thanks!   :salute
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: DrBone1 on January 30, 2012, 09:51:15 AM
410 First then my Gloster Meteor!  :D
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 30, 2012, 09:59:35 AM
and the fact it was still used into the Mid-50's by various air forces would add to the fact that it really was the premier jet fighter until the Mig15/F86 era.  Realistically, pilot to pilot, the meteor would have no chance against a 262.
The Meteor had completely surpassed the Me262 by 1946 with the Mk IV which was 70mph faster than the Me262 as well as retaining the better climb and turn rates.  I am skeptical of Me262s being in service into the 1950s, but even if it were, it was certainly not the premier jet fighter prior to the MiG-3.  That would have been the P-80, DeHaviland Vampire or Meteor.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: VonMessa on January 30, 2012, 10:13:13 AM
410 First then my Gloster Meteor!  :D

It is coming.

In two weeks...

 :noid
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 11:26:24 AM
i think the meteor would be a great add BUT we shouldnt get it before V1's are added because it wouldnt have anything to do otherwise. :banana:
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: MK-84 on January 30, 2012, 03:43:12 PM
i think the meteor would be a great add BUT we shouldnt get it before V1's are added because it wouldnt have anything to do otherwise. :banana:

Um...you could shoot down enemy aircraft with it...
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 03:55:53 PM
Um...you could shoot down enemy aircraft with it...
no no no, now that wouldn't have any kind of historical relevance or accuracy :) no V1 no meteor and theres no need for v1 so it is only logical that we don't have a meteor. remember in this chicken and the egg scenario the V1 came first  :banana:


also if you want to fly a jet that "DID" and "WAS" used to shoot down aircraft fly the 262

otherwise i rather see a unicorn Pegasus with 4 hispanos on it and can be refueled by grazing on our newly added lawns. here is a rough sketch of what it would look like.

(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6196/ponytime.jpg)
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 04:27:48 PM
and just think how much more flight and fight time you can get with landing anywhere and refueling on grass
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: RTHolmes on January 30, 2012, 04:41:45 PM
i think the meteor would be a great add BUT we shouldnt get it before V1's are added because it wouldnt have anything to do otherwise. :banana:

you want historical accuracy, just vulch with it  :devil
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 04:59:46 PM
you want historical accuracy, just vulch with it  :devil

well i think a "fighter" to be added should have at least as many aircraft kills as the me163. if it were a ground attack craft like the il2 it would be fine. but this is not the case. also ive heard many people say it was not allowed to fly over enemy territory, so my question is if it did "vulch" something, was it at a practice range. if thats the case id like to see meteor in training arena only :)


and can i get some credit for my sweet "paint" art. i put love into it
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 30, 2012, 05:20:39 PM
The Ta152, IIRC, has fewer kills than the Me163.

The Fi156 should pretty much be counted as a kill for the Meteor III as it dodged the attack, got on the ground and the crew jumped out before the Meteor destroyed it on the ground.  That isn't really any different than bailing out of an aircraft.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 05:55:31 PM
The Ta152, IIRC, has fewer kills than the Me163.

The Fi156 should pretty much be counted as a kill for the Meteor III as it dodged the attack, got on the ground and the crew jumped out before the Meteor destroyed it on the ground.  That isn't really any different than bailing out of an aircraft.

well from what i found 163 had 9 confirmed kills, and 152 can only claim "several" yaks and Tupolevs  and 1 tempest. which is still a lot more then strafing a fi156 on the ground with pilot jumping out and running for his life (probably blasting away at the meteor with a luger lol) though i couldnt find anything on the incident

and im still waiting for praise on my unicorn Pegasus
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 30, 2012, 05:58:14 PM
well from what i found 163 had 9 confirmed kills, and 152 can only claim "several" yaks and Tupolevs  and 1 tempest. which is still a lot more then strafing a fi156 on the ground with pilot jumping out and running for his life (probably blasting away at the meteor with a luger lol) though i couldnt find anything on the incident

and im still waiting for praise on my unicorn Pegasus
The Storch didn't start on the ground, it was forced down by the presence of the Meteor.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 06:08:13 PM
The Storch didn't start on the ground, it was forced down by the presence of the Meteor.

lol if an f-22 forced down and strafed a piper cub....does it count at a comfirmed air to air "fighter kill"
 
anyway i think its a poor addition to the game for many reasons. when so many other aircraft would be fine additions


and really no one like my pony  :cry
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 30, 2012, 06:23:28 PM
I agree that it would be a poor addition and there are many, many other things that I would like to see before it.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 06:29:41 PM
now tell me my quad 20mm unicorn Pegasus is awesome and ill love you later :pray
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: RTHolmes on January 30, 2012, 07:12:18 PM
if it were a ground attack craft ... it would be fine. but this is not the case. also ive heard many people say it was not allowed to fly over enemy territory, so my question is if it did "vulch" something, was it at a practice range.

although designed as an interceptor, it was a ground attack bird by virtue of its squadron's orders. much like the typhoon and (to a lesser extent) the jug for most of their service in europe. if included in AH i would hope you could fly it in fighter or attack modes. it would make a much better deacker and vulcher than the 262. just like RL :D

practice range? if you know enough to comment on the meteors suitability, you must know that already ...
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: bangsbox on January 30, 2012, 07:48:43 PM
although designed as an interceptor, it was a ground attack bird by virtue of its squadron's orders. much like the typhoon and (to a lesser extent) the jug for most of their service in europe. if included in AH i would hope you could fly it in fighter or attack modes. it would make a much better deacker and vulcher than the 262. just like RL :D

practice range? if you know enough to comment on the meteors suitability, you must know that already ...

i know the whole story...14 V1 kills and a couple of strafe stuff sorties. but what im not clear about is the conflicting info about it not allowed to fly over enemy turf for fear of germans/russians getting hold of it and how it attacked ground targets. so were these ground targets in friendly territory? if it was involved in a major ground battle then maybe it could be added but i feel that this was not the case. also there are many other things that should be added and talked about. im protesting/preaching for this aircraft to really never be added. there is a plethora of GVs bombers and fighter that "should" be added. so id like to see meteor if at all , sometime after 2075 along with my unicorn Pegasus. the meteor belongs in the 1946 arena or the Korean war arena.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 30, 2012, 08:22:10 PM
It was allowed to fly over German territory very late in the war.

Lyric1 posted this in a thread (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,325690.msg4294673.html#msg4294673) in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/mf3-1.jpg)
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: SmokinLoon on January 30, 2012, 08:40:54 PM
Meteor Mk III and He162 would both be somewhat competitive with the Me262, have strengths and weaknesses when compared with it.

The only thing we really know about a hypothetical match up between the Meteor Mk III and Me 262 is the top speeds and climb rates (both nods go to the Me262, iirc).  What we don't really know about the Meteor Mk III is how well it handles under high speeds (500mph+), how it accels, how it turns, etc etc.  From what I have read, the Meteor was not that far off from the Tempest in terms of sustained turn rates, but I don't have concrete figures.  If that is true, then the Meteor Mk III would only need to get the Me262 down low and below 400mph in a "turn" fight. 

Firepower is a moot point because a simple dash of either nose mounted quad 30mm or quad 20mm and it is game over for the target.

Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 30, 2012, 10:01:35 PM
The only thing we really know about a hypothetical match up between the Meteor Mk III and Me 262 is the top speeds and climb rates (both nods go to the Me262, iirc).  What we don't really know about the Meteor Mk III is how well it handles under high speeds (500mph+), how it accels, how it turns, etc etc.  From what I have read, the Meteor was not that far off from the Tempest in terms of sustained turn rates, but I don't have concrete figures.  If that is true, then the Meteor Mk III would only need to get the Me262 down low and below 400mph in a "turn" fight. 

Firepower is a moot point because a simple dash of either nose mounted quad 30mm or quad 20mm and it is game over for the target.


I seem to recall that the Meteor Mk III had the advantage in climb and peak acceleration.

While firepower is, as you say, effectively the same, the ballistics are not and the Meteor's Hispanos would help it there.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: VonMessa on January 31, 2012, 07:01:23 AM
I vote for the Pegasus with the jet blast coming from it's hind-end (or is that just a tail)?
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Bruv119 on January 31, 2012, 08:26:26 AM
+1  for sure,  I feel dirty flying a 262 for jet dweebery. 

The meteor would make up for my sins.  Don't care about fighter perks our squad would fly it en masse! 
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: mthrockmor on January 31, 2012, 08:32:30 AM
All this concern with having jets in-game. I agree with the logic of having the Meteor and possibly the He-162, as they both were in squad strength and saw limited combat. If/when they get they will be perked, meaning we will see them in-game about as much as they were seen in WW2, which was somewhat rare.

In time they should be added though plenty of other birds way ahead of them in the que.

Boo
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: MK-84 on January 31, 2012, 12:06:55 PM
For the people that are concerned about jets ruining the game, you are looking at it incorrectly.  If we had the 262, meteor, and 162, we would not see three times as many jets flying around.  There might be a slight increase due to the increased selection and personal preference from players, but that would be it.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Skull_001 on January 31, 2012, 05:25:33 PM
For the people that are concerned about jets ruining the game, you are looking at it incorrectly.  If we had the 262, meteor, and 162, we would not see three times as many jets flying around.  There might be a slight increase due to the increased selection and personal preference from players, but that would be it.

This is a point I agree with.
Since the 262 is a perk plane I rarely encounter one.
If we add the others it would only mean a variation among perk-jet flyers.
Some variation MAY NOT be a bad thing, but I'd still like a few more props before we bust out the jets.
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: The Fugitive on January 31, 2012, 05:35:54 PM
For the people that are concerned about jets ruining the game, you are looking at it incorrectly.  If we had the 262, meteor, and 162, we would not see three times as many jets flying around.  There might be a slight increase due to the increased selection and personal preference from players, but that would be it.

Personally, I think one jet is too many, and we have 3 already. Well ok, 2 and a rocket  :P
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: USAF2010 on January 31, 2012, 06:00:04 PM
Personally, I think one jet is too many, and we have 3 already. Well ok, 2 and a rocket  :P

 :huh

2 and a rocket?

Me262, Me163, and ????




Would love to find this mystery jet  :noid
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Karnak on January 31, 2012, 06:07:58 PM
Ar234
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: Rino on January 31, 2012, 06:08:37 PM
:huh

2 and a rocket?

Me262, Me163, and ????




Would love to find this mystery jet  :noid

     Mystery jet found..Me-262, Ar-234 and Me-163.

(http://information2share.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/ar234.jpg)
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: The Fugitive on January 31, 2012, 08:50:49 PM
:huh

2 and a rocket?

Me262, Me163, and ????




Would love to find this mystery jet  :noid

Looking for more new stuff and you don't even know what we have already? Is someone spending too much time in spits again?  :noid
Title: Re: New jets making it fair
Post by: USAF2010 on January 31, 2012, 11:12:44 PM
LOL wow, sorry guys, long day at work.

Was thinking purely about fighters, and totally forgot about the 234. My sincere apologies.  :salute