Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Darkdiz on February 02, 2012, 04:49:33 PM
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Any way we can get a chart (similar to climb or speed chart) that gives the maximum SUSTAINED turn radius vs speed (aka Corner Speed)? Would be useful in determining in flight your best speed to maintain if a turn fight is what you are in. I'm pretty sure it is modelled somewhere.
Thanks
Darkdiz
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That will not help you maintain an optimal speed.
You can not sustain an optimal corner speed.
As for sustained turn radius, here:
http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/
I think this is what you are looking for.
In which case...
Boing!! Wish granted :noid
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Actually, corner speed is loosely defined as that speed which you can SUSTAIN during the smallest radius turn. In a real aircraft, it can be expressed as a function of G load, but here, if say you are flying a spit, there will be a certain speed at which you can sustain a turn, and maintain that speed for the smallest radius. By definition, it is sustainable.
After takling to a few of the aerodynamic types at work, we guessed somewhere around 270 for a Spit
The site you gave me is simply awesome, lots of info, but no corner speed chart.
Thanks for taking the time to respond :)
DD
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+1
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Actually, corner speed is loosely defined as that speed which you can SUSTAIN during the smallest radius turn.
I dont think thats right, as I understand it sustained minimum turn radius is at stall speed*. corner speed is where you get maximum instantanious turn rate and is G-limited by either the aircraft or the pilot. for fighters, its limited by the pilot.
edit: * "just above stall speed"
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Your best sustained turn speed is neither the smallest radius or at stall speed. The smallest radius and fastest turn rate is at corner speed but in WW2 fighters you cannot maintain corner speed unless you're descending sufficiently.
Best sustained turn speed is the combination of G load and speed where your turn rate is highest while thrust and drag are balanced in a flat turn. You can fly slower than your best sustained turn speed but you will turn slower if you do.
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surely the only way you can sustain max turn rate is by keeping the aircraft at corner speed by descending, so the E you burn by turning is matched by the E you get from converting alt to E? :headscratch:
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surely the only way you can sustain max turn rate is by keeping the aircraft at corner speed by descending, so the E you burn by turning is matched by the E you get from converting alt to E? :headscratch:
Yes that's what I said. :aok
...in WW2 fighters you cannot maintain corner speed unless you're descending sufficiently.
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:aok
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Yes that's what I said.
Yeah! ... :lol I think there's quite a bit of misunderstanding of the term Corner Speed. Here's -MY- misunderstanding ...
Corner Speed is a very simple statement of an exact speed. This number is based on the -MOST EFFICIENT- ratio of speed / turn radius, in a FLAT TURN. The actual number represents the SPEED AT WHICH YOU ENTER THE TURN. (Note that the term flat turn refers to constant altitude, NOT angle of bank.)
E is burned during the manuver, it is NOT maintained ... The corner speed NUMBER can also be thought of as the speed at which E is USED most efficiently.
??? :aok
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38 does a nice little turn w/ flaps out about 240MPH, and you can actually climb slightly while doing it. Great thing to reel someone in at the top of a rope.
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Yeah! ... :lol I think there's quite a bit of misunderstanding of the term Corner Speed. Here's -MY- misunderstanding ...
Corner Speed is a very simple statement of an exact speed. This number is based on the -MOST EFFICIENT- ratio of speed / turn radius, in a FLAT TURN. The actual number represents the SPEED AT WHICH YOU ENTER THE TURN. (Note that the term flat turn refers to constant altitude, NOT angle of bank.)
E is burned during the manuver, it is NOT maintained ... The corner speed NUMBER can also be thought of as the speed at which E is USED most efficiently.
??? :aok
You are mistaken. Corner speed is simply the lowest speed at which you can pull max sustainable G.
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You are mistaken. Corner speed is simply the lowest speed at which you can pull max sustainable G.
I've seen this definition, it's engineering nomenclature ... And I'm sure it's valid for that purpose ... I'm not sure THAT is what the OP is about ... Pilot Jargon & Engineering Nomenclature aren't always mutually interchangable ... Now please go get me a can of prop wash from the toolroom. And Grab me a Left Handed Spanner Wrench too!
:D
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No... he's right EVZ. It's not semantics. That's the definition of it. Even for pilots.
Corner speed doesn't even come into play for WW2 planes because planes didn't have enough power until well into the jet age to STAY at corner speed (often not even in diving turns) to maintain it for more than a few brief moments.
It's not a useful measurement for this game at all.
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If you look at an EM diagram you'll see that high turn rate on the left side and it'll look like a spike or corner at a certain speed and then drop off rather quickly. There's a reason for that. As others have stated this magic speed can only be maintained in a WW2 aircraft by decending as you can't maintain that corner turn rate/speed/G pull in a level turn as you're burning energy. Drag is slowing you down quickly in a level turn. You'll generally only be able to generate "corner" for a brief period. Less than a second maybe. Serious.
Now in a level turn a plane will slow but still be able to maintain a certain highest turn rate--that is the sustained turn rate. This is always lower--by a good bit-- than the corner rate. In that level turn, no matter what you're flying, you'll be able to maintain a certain turn rate at a certain speed and a certain ammount of pull. Pull more, you induce more drag, you slow down--the rate decreases. That's how it works.
Once again that turn rate number everyone looks for is only good for a given configuration on that plane. Lighter on fuel is better than heavier. Lighter makes for better thrust to weight ratio. That way your engine can maintain a higher speed for longer. That engine efficiency is affected by altitude. Lift is affected too. Engines work better on the deck than up high. For the same reason a wing can generate more lift in the lower thicker air than up in the higher thinner air. Flaps are another factor. But it's a double edged sword. They help to a certain extent but the penalty is more drag as you extend them. Too much flap can be a bad thing too.
In short there's a lot of relative states that have to be factored in to define "corner" speed even across similar planes. Lots of things affect it.
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It's not a useful measurement for this game at all.
This oughta be a sticky. How many times does this get asked? Heck there's a post somewhere the last day or so somebody's asking for the corner for a Storch! Seriously? :rofl
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I've seen this definition, it's engineering nomenclature ... And I'm sure it's valid for that purpose ... I'm not sure THAT is what the OP is about ... Pilot Jargon & Engineering Nomenclature aren't always mutually interchangable ... Now please go get me a can of prop wash from the toolroom. And Grab me a Left Handed Spanner Wrench too!
:D
I didn't think you'd learn anything. I just posted for the players that might read your post without realizing that you don't know what you're talking about.
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Corner speed ... It's not a useful measurement for this game at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of the players in Aces High agree with you. :devil
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Knowing corner speeds and how draggy a plane is , is very very very useful in a fight. Btw it is very simple to find the speed in AH.
Climb, start fast enough that you can black out, pull to tunnel vision, the speed when the plane stalls with you in tunnel vision is your corner speed.
HiTech
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Climb, start fast enough that you can black out, pull to tunnel vision, the speed when the plane stalls with you in tunnel vision is your corner speed.
HiTech
I absolutely am not knowledgeable about such things beyond the vague notions I have gotten from online gaming/flight sims, but that doesn't sound right to me. Is 'stalls' what you actually meant?
I had thought the way to check for it was to look at the speed indicator when you're at the lowest speed where you are still capable of pulling to blackout.
By the by, is the interesting part of corner speed TAS or IAS? Looking at it logically, it would seem to me TAS would be what applies?
Wiley.
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I absolutely am not knowledgeable about such things beyond the vague notions I have gotten from online gaming/flight sims, but that doesn't sound right to me. Is 'stalls' what you actually meant?
I had thought the way to check for it was to look at the speed indicator when you're at the lowest speed where you are still capable of pulling to blackout.
By the by, is the interesting part of corner speed TAS or IAS? Looking at it logically, it would seem to me TAS would be what applies?
Wiley.
Just 2 different ways to get to the same place Wiley. Pull to tunnel vision, listen for the stall buffet ( or wait for a wing to drop), look at the speed. Once you're pulling you'll slow down fast so film might make it easier to be accurate. The lowest speed you can pull 6G is essentially the lowest speed you can fly at 6 G, the stall horn is on to tell you you're at your lift limit, so that's why it's the same point.
Corner speed is IAS. It's like stalls, the amount of lift from air speed and AOA is affected by air density, so TAS varies and IAS remains the same.
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Just 2 different ways to get to the same place Wiley. Pull to tunnel vision and listen for the stall horn.
Corner speed is IAS. It's like stalls, the amount of lift from air speed and AOA is affected by air density, so TAS varies and IAS remains the same.
Hmp. Never noticed the stall going off when I was pulling that hard. I pull that hard for that long so rarely, I just about never get my plane into that condition.
I would've thought the TAS would apply because at first glance it would seem to affect your G load, with it being how fast you're actually moving through space. However, 'at a glance' reasoning rarely applies when you get into the technical end of this stuff. <g>
Thanks for the info.
Wiley.
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If you're a little above corner speed you won't hear the stall horn because you don't need to be as close to your lift limit to pull 6 G as your speed increases.
Remember G load comes from lift not from speed. Speed just allows more load with less AOA.
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Sweet :devil Looks like I opened a bit of a can 'o worms here.
From my experience with fast jets (I do military T&E), there is a certain speed, aerodynamically-defined, where you can SUSTAIN a turn while turning in the smallest radius. For example, if a Spit is doing 350 kts and turns using max turn-rate performance, he will turn through a certain, aerodynamically-defined radius. If he is doing 80 kts and turns, again using max turn-rate performance, he will also turn through a certain radius, and that radius will be significantly different, likely significantly smaller, than that at 350 kts. But at 80kts, he will likely stall, and so therefore not be able to SUSTAIN his turn. However, at 350 kts (humour me and don't consider blackout as we are talking pure plane performance vice the carbon-based stick and rudder interface here), he will likely be able to sustain the turn. However, he will likely bleed E, getting slower, and so his turn will likely tighten (radius will decrease). Blackout would not likely be a problem at this speed. At what point, assuming a sustained turn at max performance is maintained, does the turn radius STOP decreasing, and he turn is sustained (E-neutral)? That point would be corner speed.
I realize it would be different for different configurations of any given aircraft, just as max speed and climb-rate is, but clearly there is a most efficient speed that a given aircraft turns at (I like the efficiency comment above). All I was wondering was is there a document in AH (great sim btw HT) that has this info. I suspect it would be a plot of speed vs altitude, similar to what is available for TAS and climb are.
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You're confusing corner speed with best sustained turn speed.
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At what point, assuming a sustained turn at max performance is maintained, does the turn radius STOP decreasing, and he turn is sustained (E-neutral)? That point would be corner speed.
that point would be just above stall speed. it is not corner speed, which has been explained above.
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that point would be just above stall speed. it is not corner speed, which has been explained above.
Just make sure it's at least your 2.5 G stall speed and not your 1 G stall speed. :joystick:
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Whatever it is called, is there a chart for it? Or can we get one?
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No... he's right EVZ. It's not semantics. That's the definition of it. Even for pilots.
Gee-ze Lou-eezee guys ... Will you -READ THE OP- ...? Now MAYBE he used the WRONG WORD, but is this thread about what the OP asks or is it about hi-jacking it so everyone can show of their Engineering Dictionarys ... ? As previously noted ... There SEEMS TO BE SOME MISUNDERSTANDING taking place.
:bhead
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Heck there's a post somewhere the last day or so somebody's asking for the corner for a Storch! Seriously? :rofl
Lot's of computer pilots use the term loosely to define an aircrafts BEST turning speed ... when you think about it ... this might be a nice thing to know when circling around in a storch looking for GVs ... don't you think ... ? It might be a nice thing to know when deciding which fighter you want to spend the next couple of months training in ... ? don't you think ...? It MIGHT BE a nice thing to have a comparison chart for AH aircraft ... ? seems like a reasonable request, once you're finished laughing at people for using a technical term descriptively. ???
;)
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I THINK I remember seeing one in an earlier sim (An early version of Air Warrior, pre-CD for sure?) It came in the package in a brown leaflet type book (plastic ringed). It also had the climb and speed charts.
Anyway, lots of good discussion, I'm pretty sure I know I would at least refer to it, as I try to do with the climb and speed charts (I thought they lied to me last night, until I remembered I was carryng rockets so that's why the 51 caught me quite quickly in a sprint on the deck in a Typhoon :) At the end of the day, to fly any given aircraft, one of the cardinal rules is "know your aircraft, and your enemy's" allowing you to fight the fight you want to, not him.
DD
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That will not help you maintain an optimal speed.
You can not sustain an optimal corner speed.
As for sustained turn radius, here:
http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/
I think this is what you are looking for.
In which case...
Boing!! Wish granted :noid
Good case for CS charts to be included IMO, in practice it's STILL going to be an informative resource of some value in-game, especially to new players or players interested in trying a plane they know little about (knowing the best minimum speed to aggressively maneuver is very useful offensively and defensively in AH). While yet still not of any significant or overly advantageous way to any player, however a great learning tool.... as a wise man once said, you don't learn to run without first walking and falling on your face a few times (in this case, learning that CS is near impossible to maintain amongst other valuable knife fighting lessons).
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surely the only way you can sustain max turn rate is by keeping the aircraft at corner speed by descending, so the E you burn by turning is matched by the E you get from converting alt to E? :headscratch:
Just to clarify something. 'E' is not the same as speed or velocity. You have two types of 'E', kinetic and potential. Kinetic energy is a function of velocity and mass, where Potential is a function of height/altitude and mass. A heavy plane flying low, straight and level can have the same 'E' as a plane that weighs less and is slower, but at a higher altitude.
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Just make sure it's at least your 2.5 G stall speed and not your 1 G stall speed. :joystick:
yes apologies that was very misleading, I had in mind the method for determining the best sustained turn speed. you certainly do not want to be fighting at Stall Speed.
if you want to determine the best sustained turn speed, and the corner velocity for your favorite ride its pretty simple to do, just download Badboy's (very excellent) Bootstrap Calculator (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,233819.0.html) and follow the instructions - it only takes 10mins offline if you have a steady hand :aok
I do agree that we should have access to the E-M diagrams as well as the speed/climb charts (they should be fairly straighforward to generate from the FM) like this:
(http://www.badz.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/AH2-SpitV-v-SpitVIII.jpg)
here you can see that for the Spit V, the stall speed is ~80, the best sustained turn speed is ~140, and the corner velocity is ~205.
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You'll notice that the stall speeds on BadBoy's EM diagram, multiplied by 2.44, give you the corner speeds. ;)
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sqrt(N) where N=6g ;)
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yes apologies that was very misleading, I had in mind the method for determining the best sustained turn speed. you certainly do not want to be fighting at Stall Speed.
if you want to determine the best sustained turn speed, and the corner velocity for your favorite ride its pretty simple to do, just download Badboy's (very excellent) Bootstrap Calculator (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,233819.0.html) and follow the instructions - it only takes 10mins offline if you have a steady hand :aok
I do agree that we should have access to the E-M diagrams as well as the speed/climb charts (they should be fairly straighforward to generate from the FM) like this:
(http://www.badz.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/AH2-SpitV-v-SpitVIII.jpg)
here you can see that for the Spit V, the stall speed is ~80, the best sustained turn speed is ~140, and the corner velocity is ~205.
NOW we talkin!!!
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Dang it, link is dead :cry
Can u email it to me? Darkdiz@hotmail.com
TYVM
DD
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check the last post in the thread, Badboy updated the link :)
Badboy has written some pretty definitive stuff on the technical aspect of ACM in flight sims, search netaces.org (?) for the energy fighting stuff, its excellent :aok
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Frikkin' poifict!
Now to figure out all the charts!!!
TYVM for all ur help, hopefully some kills will come my way due to it :)
DD
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Lot's of computer pilots use the term loosely to define an aircrafts BEST turning speed ... when you think about it ... this might be a nice thing to know when circling around in a storch looking for GVs ... don't you think ... ? It might be a nice thing to know when deciding which fighter you want to spend the next couple of months training in ... ? don't you think ...? It MIGHT BE a nice thing to have a comparison chart for AH aircraft ... ? seems like a reasonable request, once you're finished laughing at people for using a technical term descriptively. ???
;)
Dude why don't you try answering the question if you think you can? Problem is you're a long way away from having a clue so you can't. All you have in the tank is being argumentative and doing that without fact one. Your M.O.
All I did here was try to clarify something for a new guy. Don't you think that would be nice? You oughta try it sometime. Your problem is you don't yet have a grasp on the questions so ths answers are a long way off.
If you have something to add to this or any other thread have at it. Otherwise step the heck back.
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Gentlemen:
This is an awesome game/sim, I absolutely enjoy the crap out of it, I even rage quit on occasion :t That being said, I REALLY appreciate the help here, it is ALL good information, and enhances MY enjoyment of this even more. ALL of the good folks who replied to this thread should give themselves a pat on the back for assisting this noob, I raise a glass to you all :cheers:
Now, all sunshine aside, I downloaded the Badboy spreadsheet, it works great, but doesn't give the comparison chart I saw in a previous post on this thread. I suspect it is from an earlier version. Any chance I could get THAT version, as I think the product produced (the Spit V vs Spit8) is what I am after. (Darkdiz@hotmail.com) if you have the earlier version, I have had a heck of a time trying to find it on Badboy's site, no success as yet.
As well, if folks would provide the data, I would be quite open to making a package up of all the aircfaft and submitting it for inclusion (similar to the climb and speed charts).
Just a thought.
DD
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the spreadsheet doesnt generate charts, just the numbers you need.
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All righty then. I'm pretty sure I could rig something in XL anyway.
Thanks for all your help.
DD
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Dude why don't you try answering the question if you think you can?
If you bothered to READ THE THREAD ... ? You might find that ... Too Much Trouble ? or do you just like the taste of your toes?
:neener:
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If you bothered to READ THE THREAD ... ? You might find that ... Too Much Trouble ?
Oh I did. I've also read many, many threads exactly like this one over the years too. The difference between you and I is that I can actually help the guy with an actual understanding of his question. Clearly, he had corner velocity and sustained turn rate confused so I tried to help him out. Others helped him too for which he was thankful. (No thanks needed btw, we're glad to help).
However, you responded with this gibberish--and it IS gibberish:
"Yeah! ... Hehe! I think there's quite a bit of misunderstanding of the term Corner Speed. Here's -MY- misunderstanding ...
Corner Speed is a very simple statement of an exact speed. This number is based on the -MOST EFFICIENT- ratio of speed / turn radius, in a FLAT TURN. The actual number represents the SPEED AT WHICH YOU ENTER THE TURN. (Note that the term flat turn refers to constant altitude, NOT angle of bank.)
E is burned during the manuver, it is NOT maintained ... The corner speed NUMBER can also be thought of as the speed at which E is USED most efficiently."
What in THE HELL is THAT supposed to mean? Seriously? You think you helped that guy out with YOUR "misunderstanding" there?
As I said before--if YOU actually read it--is that you're FAR from understanding the questions here bro. So don't start acting like you're helping this or any other guy out with crap like this. Just shut thy pie hole for a while and you might find there's people on these forums such as myself that are glad to help out. You're not part of that group. You're far from that group, in fact. You're more of a harm than a help. Your "own ideal" is just plain--wrong.
A quick look at your stats over the last few months show that you spend a majority of your time in the ship guns. Really dude? That said, what might make you anything bordering on an authority on subjects like corner velocity? You hardly fly planes--which is where you'd learn about such things and when you do you tend to get the crap knocked out of you. To your credit you do fly a 38 when you do so all is not lost. Your problem with this game--and you DO have a problem with it--is you're frustrated with how difficult it is. So you lash out at people here? Sorry bro but that ain't gonna cut it. Looks to me like you could really use the help but with an attitude like yours I'd have to say--good luck with that. Keep thinking you're gonna teach yourself.
You've made statements on this forum describing your years of experience. The BS meter is flying apart on that one. Your stats don't lie. Your <cough>"understanding" of a basic flying principle like corner velocity doesn't bear that out either. Nice try.
You have a tendency to make ridiculous statements here that you never back up. An attempted attack on my reputation here not long ago among them. Fact is, you're a fool.
Suck on that.
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However, you responded with this gibberish--and it IS gibberish
I said - "Yeah! ... Hehe! I think there's quite a bit of misunderstanding of the term Corner Speed. Here's -MY- misunderstanding ..."
I'm sorry it took some of you so long to comprehend WHAT the guy was looking for ...
It's not gibberish, it's just SIMPLE ... In a turn and burn fight, few pilots have the time or inclination to pull out the old slide rule ... If you know before hand a GENRAL reference point for the best speed/energy loss ratio, a quick glance can provide a LOT of usefull insight, instantly ... I don't care what you call it ... Corner Speed was the term USED in this case, I've seen and heard it used by a lot of computer pilots interested in actual Fighting Performance rather than spread sheet graphs. AS HT NOTED - IT'S GOOD TO KNOW. Language and Lingo ... makes the difference in whether you wind up in the stew pot or sleeping with the chiefs daughter.
:lol
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A quick look at your stats over the last few months show that you spend a majority of your time in the ship guns. Really dude? - you do fly a 38 when you do so all is not lost.
A quick look at my stats tells you nothing about where I spend game time. I don't mind admitting I'm Good in Guns and when a base needs shelled or a carrier requires defending that's where I'm needed ... But it accounts for very little time really, as there is no transit involved ... just jump in and start shooting. & Yes ... I like the P-38, best ride in MWA for my $$$, but it's 2 bomb capacity tempt me to use it for attack, which it isn't well suited for. SO this tour I'm trying to stick to the 190 for attack missions.
It's sad you're so delusional ... Put a nice Picasso Print on the wall and consider other viewpoints before you -DECIDE what's going on.-
You've made statements on this forum describing your years of experience. The BS meter is flying apart on that one.
Yes ... My experience with aircraft started at the age of 14 ... I soloed at 15, in an aircraft I personally welded the NEW motor mount frame for. It's been a lot of fun ... I've known a few like you too ... they don't usually last long before they screw the pooch.
:rolleyes:
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I said - "Yeah! ... Hehe! I think there's quite a bit of misunderstanding of the term Corner Speed. Here's -MY- misunderstanding ..."
I'm sorry it took some of you so long to comprehend WHAT the guy was looking for ...
It's not gibberish, it's just SIMPLE ... In a turn and burn fight, few pilots have the time or inclination to pull out the old slide rule ... If you know before hand a GENRAL reference point for the best speed/energy loss ratio, a quick glance can provide a LOT of usefull insight, instantly ... I don't care what you call it ... Corner Speed was the term USED in this case, I've seen and heard it used by a lot of computer pilots interested in actual Fighting Performance rather than spread sheet graphs. AS HT NOTED - IT'S GOOD TO KNOW. Language and Lingo ... makes the difference in whether you wind up in the stew pot or sleeping with the chiefs daughter.
:lol
I stated that CORNER SPEED is good to know. Corner speed has ZERO to do with your statements in this thread.
HiTech
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Drano,
you are arguing with a guy who agrees with half the crap davidwales spits out.
Yeah...
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Drano,
you are arguing with a guy who agrees with half the crap davidwales spits out.
Yeah...
I said in his ramming thread I'd put him on the shelf with him. Twins separated at birth? :D
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I stated that CORNER SPEED is good to know. Corner speed has ZERO to do with your statements in this thread.
Given the the consensual ? definition that seems to have been arrived at - I would agree ... However ... the term was misused from the git-go and my comments were directed at the OP request - maximum SUSTAINED turn radius vs speed (aka Corner Speed)? Would be useful in determining in flight your best speed to maintain if a turn fight is what you are in. tho I suspect? he meant MINIMUM rather than Maximum. AND sustained speed will either Burn E or get you killed ...
PERSONALLY - In order to take full advantage of the aircraft without wasting any potential E, I want to know the best speed to START turning at, as MY interest is not focused on the gauges once the fight starts. Knowing the optimum entry speed and the expected energy decay helps with acessing options.
I DID find it interesting how the threads course changed from -stupid question that doesn't apply to AH- into, -here's where you can find what you want - after your comments. I look forward to seeing any comparison charts generated by this thread ...
:)
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sustained speed will ... Burn E.
no it wont. hence why it is called best sustained turn speed.
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It's just not gonna get through his armor plated skull Holmes. He knows he's right and we're all crazy! :rofl :rofl
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I know, its for the benefit of others reading the thread hoping to learn something ;)
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Guys... play nice in the sandbox, no need to flame each other. Differences of opinion are fine, ALL knowledge is good. Filter out what you don't need (or think you don't need) and get on with it. As the OP for this thread, I am pretty disappointed it comes down to name calling, when I only asked what I still consider a valid question, the answer to which I'm not sure I have, still checking and filtering...
I have said previously, I REALLY appreciate the dialogue, and as long as my knowledge increases from it, I am a happy camper. I can do without the flamed differences of opinions though, it is REALLY not needed, and is counterproductive.
DD
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no it wont. hence why it is called best sustained turn speed.
Please note, the - OR GET YOU KILLED ... Widen the turn enough to sustain the speed WITHOUT burning E (diving) to do so ... and your opponent WILL take advantage of your mistake and KILL YOU ... dontcha think?
:uhoh
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I have said previously, I REALLY appreciate the dialogue, and as long as my knowledge increases from it, I am a happy camper. I can do without the flamed differences of opinions though, it is REALLY not needed, and is counterproductive.
DD
Understand Diz this isn't a difference of opinion. EVZ is just dead nuts wrong about this and his "opinion" on the matter is not something that would help you or anyone else--hence the flames from the rest of us with a clue that are trying to help you out. Please tune this guy out if you wish to get any better. He showed up here a few months back with this attitude like he invented this. Which make no mistake--he didn't. As far as he's concerned his is the only opinion that matters here and he's never even slightly wrong-even when like here he's way off and even when it's been pointed out to him again and again and again. That's the difference between a guy like you and a guy like him. You I'm glad to help. Him, well--he's made it clear he needs no one's help.
PM incoming.
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Please note etc...
I discarded that because its irrelevant, this thread is about E-M charts, corner speed and best sustained turn speed for your own aircraft.
ACM is technical and confusing, and you are muddying the waters here.
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This may have already been posted, I did not read the whole thread.
I think this is exactly what you were looking for.
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_011a.html
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@Darkdiz
I assume you probably already have a copy of Shaw, the following might also interest you:
SimHQ.com:
Energy Management: Picking The Right Airplane For The Job, Leon "Badboy" Smith (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_011a.html)
CombatSim.com:
Using E-M Charts, Joseph Hong 1998 (http://www.combatsim.com/htm/nov98/energy-man1.htm) (Fig.1 and para.5 explain quite neatly why that bloody P-38 just kicked my arse :D)
E-M Charts II, Joseph Hong 1998 (http://www.combatsim.com/htm/nov98/energy-man2.htm)
Energy and ACM, Leon "Badboy" Smith, 1997 (http://www.combatsim.com/archive/htm/htm_arc1/acm2.htm)
edit: great minds think alike (or at least have the same bookmarks) Mk84 ;)
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ANYWHO.....
Frikkin' poifict!
Now to figure out all the charts!!!
TYVM for all ur help, hopefully some kills will come my way due to it :)
DD
Since you seem new around these parts and eager to digest (here's your complimentary and patnented pair of forum-blinders by the way), I want to throw a suggestion out. Keep an eye open (or PM a trainer and ask for a one on one) for the Basic ACM clinics, they're vastly informative and in the hands-on sense too. Goes great hand-in-hand with all these charts and numbers you're starting to just chew on now.
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Oh, I'm SERIOUSLY likin' it :aok
I see myself as the sponge here, suckin up all the info... keep it coming!
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I discarded that because its irrelevant, this thread is about E-M charts, corner speed and best sustained turn speed for your own aircraft.
Lets see, the OP says - "your best speed to maintain if a turn fight is what you are in." I think maybe theres some interest in HOW this info affects FIGHTING the airplane ...
And you discard "getting KILLED" as irrelevant ... Hmmmm ...
I guess anyone WANTING to get killed should probably pay attention to you ...
:eek:
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I guess anyone WANTING to get killed should probably pay attention to you ...
:eek:
Says the guy that last tour had an astounding .23/1 K/D in a fighter. Really dude? Really? You're gonna talk smack? Really? I'd say anybody wants to learn how to get killed they oughta watch you as you quite obviously got that part down!
Yeah I know--but but but those stats don't tell the whole story. RIiiightt :rofl :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :lol
Stop digging fool!
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Says the guy that last tour had an astounding .23/1 K/D in a fighter.
OH SNAP!
ack-ack
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but but those stats don't tell the whole story.
Yes and no ... I like to throw the little ones back ...
;)
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Hey bud I know you have a hard time gettin your gigantic head wrapped around this but--
<whispers>you're one of the little ones. :lol
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Knock it off.
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What Hitech said, no req for this in such an inoccuous (sp?) thread.