Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: F22RaptorDude on February 03, 2012, 10:29:59 PM
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Wrote this up before the end of class but ran out of time, Teacher said she was blown away along with a few of my friends who read what I had so far on face book. I'm going to lengthen the ending to put in more detail, bell rung and I quickly added in a few sentences.
Basically we were shown a few pictures, and had to pick one to write a story about. Here's the picture I chose
(http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/ivangorod.jpg)
If they asked me why I did what I did, I honestly wouldn’t have an answer… If they asked me how many poor souls I had brutally beaten or killed I feel that I could not answer. If they asked me how I could live with myself after this horror story I could not tell for I do not have an answer. One story haunts me more than any other a woman who had used her own body for protection for her young child, I was their death sentence, they had no chance.
Before the war the idea of killing someone had never come to mind, if it had I’m sure I would have protested the idea. To think that a person could kill another person is beyond me. I mean the victim has a history in life, all that was worked up to get to where they were cut off by the brutal hand of man, the idea sickened me. Yet here I am doing the very thing I never gave a second thought about.
I worked at a sorting station at a concentration camp somewhere in Austria, I forget the name as it has been to long. Day after day hundreds and sometimes thousands of Jews would pass me, my Mp-40 at hand constantly ready to pull the trigger. I felt it was my duty to protect the world from all impurities that challenged our perfection in this world.
I had never shot anyone yet, most of the time someone got out of line I would simply kick them and shout to get back in line, sometimes I would hit them with the butt of my gun to make them cooperate. The questions that followed I had no answer for, the “Why are you doing this” they often times shouted under the blows of me and my fellow collogues. I didn’t like to think about the pain we inflicted on their frail bodies, the injuries that could end up having them die or be killed. I was a monster but at the same time attempted pity on the poor souls.
In early fall of 1944, we were done in, I was moved to another camp that demanded more brutal treatment than my previous one, We were on edge as news that the Soviet front was fast approaching and was becoming unstoppable. Brutality increased as we attempted to eradicate as much life as we could before the final blow was stuck to us. This was the first time I was ever demanded to shoot a living person. In the sorting line men were separated from young children and women, the women and children were send off to the crematoriums or shot on the spot, I was assigned to kill a woman who was on the ground huddled over her young infant who appeared to have been severely beaten. The tears strained the ground, the screams pierced the air, she begged for life.
My Superior officer dragged the two over to a dirt field and exchanged my submachine gun for a rifle, he ordered me to shoot them like dogs. I thought about asking to have someone else do it, I thought of the rebellion I would get for being soft, I grabbed the rifle and told them to stand. The woman shouted again that her life be spared along with her child. My superior walked off to go beat some other prisoners who weren’t cooperating and left me the job to do. I walked over to her and the child and kneeled down. Words refused to come out but I finally uttered “I’m sorry I have to do this, it pleases me no more than it does you” I sighed deeply of all the things I wanted to do this defiantly was not one of them.
Her shouting stopped and she looked at me, the eyes showed no sign of life just fear and despair. There was nothing I could do but assure her it would be quick and I would try to be fast about it. She begun crying again and clutched her child close to her “I don’t care about myself anymore, just please don’t hurt my baby” she managed to scream out. The child had begun to cry to over his mother’s distraught figure. These words still haunt me today. For I wish I could have saved one of them, but in the end my superior came back and asked why I had not killed them. He laughed and went over and stood them up, I had no choice. I raised my gun to her head, I’m sure she didn’t want to see her child die before her eyes. She turned around and shielded the toddler, I aimed and closed me eyes. I didn’t hear the shot, all I felt was the pat on my back as my superior told me to open my eyes and behold the scene of which plagues my dreams still. The woman had been shot in the back of the head, her figure was spread along the ground, eyes open, staring blankly at me.
The feeling of sickness filled me as I saw the infant crawl up to her and cry for her to move. I turned my head I did not wish to see this horrible scene. Gunshots rang out, my superior seeing I didn’t have it anymore to shoot again pulled out his pistol and fired at the child multiple times. They were both dead before me, this I may never forget.
Thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated
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harsh stuff for me to read, harsh for you to have to write too probably (and if you had a kid you probably wouldn't have been able to write it at all :uhoh )
compared to what you usually come out with on these forums I think it's actually not too badly written
a bit clumsy in places, and you could do with a few more commas
a solid B- from me
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harsh stuff for me to read, harsh for you to have to write too probably (and if you had a kid you probably wouldn't have been able to write it at all :uhoh )
compared to what you usually come out with on these forums I think it's actually not too badly written
a bit clumsy in places, and you could do with a few more commas
a solid B- from me
Like I said I was pressed for time, and also It kinda got to me, I was shaking around the end, I could picture it so clearly in my head... it Horrified me. Worse part is I have the make the ending a lot more detailed, my writing is the only thing thats keeping me from failing.
Thanks though, i'll add em in when I look over it again and put more detail in among the paragraphs
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You have a good imagination. Certain things will improve as you write more often. You're speaking from the Troopers point of view, so try to express it in Germanic phrases or terms. What did they call the Concentration Camps?
Also, from what I've read and was taught, the SS who did this stuff wouldn't have felt remorse. They viewed the Jews as vile animals. Writing and thinking in that frame of mind would be very distressing.
Good job though.
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my grandfather was in the 12th SS. he gave me his pistol, his iron cross, his helmet and a few other things. he always says he wants to forget about it and thats why he gave me those things. what he did was terrible but back then I'm sure he felt differently when he was holding that gun to the back of someones head that now sits on my desk.
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noticed a couple spelling/grammar issues, nothing overly large, but enough to dock points from a hard grader. I understand you were pressed for time, but double / triple check it before you hand it in. very deep. the first three paragraphs almost resemble the opening to a novel or memoir to a degree. possibly add more meat to the concluding paragraph too. The reading gets dropped, and although a the reader we know what happened, and why, it is such a short conclusion it leaves the reader wanting to read more. :cheers:
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noticed a couple spelling/grammar issues, nothing overly large, but enough to dock points from a hard grader. I understand you were pressed for time, but double / triple check it before you hand it in. very deep. the first three paragraphs almost resemble the opening to a novel or memoir to a degree. possibly add more meat to the concluding paragraph too. The reading gets dropped, and although a the reader we know what happened, and why, it is such a short conclusion it leaves the reader wanting to read more. :cheers:
I'll work on it tonight, the ending I literally had 20 seconds to make so I can do alot better, as for my grammar mistakes i'll get those checked out
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Good to see your school is open minded enough to allow you to write about ( and write ) something so harsh.......I enjoyed reading it :aok
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my grandfather was in the 12th SS. he gave me his pistol, his iron cross, his helmet and a few other things. he always says he wants to forget about it and thats why he gave me those things. what he did was terrible but back then I'm sure he felt differently when he was holding that gun to the back of someones head that now sits on my desk.
Is he still alive? It would be good to know how he felt about the whole thing. As far as I can tell, the SS weren't volunteers- they were just stronger and faster than average.
-Penguin
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Is he still alive? It would be good to know how he felt about the whole thing. As far as I can tell, the SS weren't volunteers- they were just stronger and faster than average.
-Penguin
did you read the quote? "He wanted to forget it, thats why he gave me his pistol, iron cross, helmet and a few other things". I must ask how you think he felt if he wants(ed) to forget it......
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Penguin i'm sure anyone who did what they did sure as heck would not want to talk about it today, nobody likes the idea of being that cruel and evil these days
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He may have felt it was right at the time, then changed his mind.
-Penguin
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You should proof read it before turning it in. Quite a few mistakes. Overall read was interesting.
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You should proof read it before turning it in. Quite a few mistakes. Overall read was interesting.
Thanks and I'll have those taken care of soon
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He may have felt it was right at the time, then changed his mind.
-Penguin
probably the case. even if it is the case, I highly doubt he would openly say this is so. the only ones who felt it would be right and would still be open about it would be Hitler and Himmler.....
:noid
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Tough subject. The picture stands on its own.
My concern is you put too much of yourself into the soldier. He's too human. As mentioned already the SS soldiers doing this job saw their victims as less then human and were doing their Fuhrer's bidding. In his eyes he's stomping on a bug. His stance and care in aiming seems to show an interest in his work. He's not rushing to get it over with. He's prolonging the agony for the woman and child.
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Wrote this up before the end of class but ran out of time, Teacher said she was blown away along with a few of my friends who read what I had so far on face book. I'm going to lengthen the ending to put in more detail, bell rung and I quickly added in a few sentences.
Basically we were shown a few pictures, and had to pick one to write a story about. Here's the picture I chose
(http://markhumphrys.com/Bitmaps/ivangorod.jpg)
Thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated
Finding of "guilty". Sentence is Death by Hanging. Punishment to be carried out tomorrow morning.
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Tough subject. The picture stands on its own.
My concern is you put too much of yourself into the soldier. He's too human. As mentioned already the SS soldiers doing this job saw their victims as less then human and were doing their Fuhrer's bidding. In his eyes he's stomping on a bug. His stance and care in aiming seems to show an interest in his work. He's not rushing to get it over with. He's prolonging the agony for the woman and child.
I want to believe that out of all that brutality at least a few SS troops showed some sympathy if any?
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Is he still alive? It would be good to know how he felt about the whole thing. As far as I can tell, the SS weren't volunteers- they were just stronger and faster than average.
-Penguin
terrible. hes still alive, he was in the Hitler youth..witch I have his Hitler Youth knife as well. A few years back my dad bought him a Kar98k for his birthday. when he opened it he put it down and went in his room and cried.
He didnt volunteer either, he was most definantly hardcore for Hitler's Reich. But Hitler was a god to them for making them feel proud to be Germans. people would do anything for him. He's told me of times where they went into villages and went into peoples occupied houses and sprayed everyone inside. He also fought at Normandy on D-Day. To this day he has no idea how he got out alive. He went to Russia in 42 at the age of 16. he fought in Stalingrad,D-day, the Ardennes (he was shot in the side by a sniper while going through the Falaise Gap) and back to Berlin. he ended up in a Russian prison for 2 years until he escaped and came to America. Thats about all he's ever told me about to this day. hes only talked to be about it twice
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terrible. hes still alive, he was in the Hitler youth..witch I have his Hitler Youth knife as well. A few years back my dad bought him a Kar98k for his birthday. when he opened it he put it down and went in his room and cried.
He didnt volunteer either, he was most definantly hardcore for Hitler's Reich. But Hitler was a god to them for making them feel proud to be Germans. people would do anything for him. He's told me of times where they went into villages and went into peoples occupied houses and sprayed everyone inside. He also fought at Normandy on D-Day. To this day he has no idea how he got out alive. He went to Russia in 42 at the age of 16. he fought in Stalingrad,D-day, the Ardennes (he was shot in the side by a sniper while going through the Falaise Gap) and back to Berlin. he ended up in a Russian prison for 2 years until he escaped and came to America. Thats about all he's ever told me about to this day. hes only talked to be about it twice
Thats tragic...
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I want to believe that out of all that brutality at least a few SS troops showed some sympathy if any?
I wouldn't bet one dollar on that.
You want to believe it, but you're talking about the SS in reference to killing a Jew.
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A few SS members were accualy jews. but it was hard for them to do it and I dont know why any of them would.
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Tough subject. The picture stands on its own.
My concern is you put too much of yourself into the soldier. He's too human. As mentioned already the SS soldiers doing this job saw their victims as less then human and were doing their Fuhrer's bidding. In his eyes he's stomping on a bug. His stance and care in aiming seems to show an interest in his work. He's not rushing to get it over with. He's prolonging the agony for the woman and child.
You can not speak for all of the members of the SS. Many joined the SS not because of they felt they were superior but rather as a status symbol. Be very careful when you try and tell the story of the executioner, you don't know a think about him other than her is wearing the uniform of a German soldier. I'd be willing to bet he was forced to do what he is doing in that photo. He probably didn't enjoy doing any more than you or I. Don't worry though, I don't blame you or anyone else for the knee jerk responses regarding Nazis, they are everyone's favorite bad guy to berate. After all, each and every one of the Nazis were a cold-blooded Jew-hating German, right?
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terrible. hes still alive, he was in the Hitler youth..witch I have his Hitler Youth knife as well. A few years back my dad bought him a Kar98k for his birthday. when he opened it he put it down and went in his room and cried.
He didnt volunteer either, he was most definantly hardcore for Hitler's Reich. But Hitler was a god to them for making them feel proud to be Germans. people would do anything for him. He's told me of times where they went into villages and went into peoples occupied houses and sprayed everyone inside. He also fought at Normandy on D-Day. To this day he has no idea how he got out alive. He went to Russia in 42 at the age of 16. he fought in Stalingrad,D-day, the Ardennes (he was shot in the side by a sniper while going through the Falaise Gap) and back to Berlin. he ended up in a Russian prison for 2 years until he escaped and came to America. Thats about all he's ever told me about to this day. hes only talked to be about it twice
That is a remarkable story. *searches for the proper smiley*
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The SS... The Schutzstaffel was Hitler's personal bodyguards and fanatical Nazis. The Waffen-SS were the military arm of the SS and were all fanatical Nazis who pledged their personal loyalty to Adolf Hitler. The were not just "soldiers" doing their "job". They were a political and almost religious militia.
"Ich schwöre Adolf Hitler unerschütterliche Treue. Ich schwöre ihm und den Führern, die er mir bestimmt, unbedingten Gehorsam. Adolf Hitler: Sieg Heil!"
"I vow to Adolf Hitler imperturbable loyalty. I vow to him and to the leaders, that he sets for me, absolute allegiance. Adolf Hitler: Hail victory!"
I must say I found the text somewhat distasteful. Not because of the brutality, but because of the lack of it. It painted a sympathetic picture of a heartless murderer of a woman and child (and probably many more before and after).
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I want to believe that out of all that brutality at least a few SS troops showed some sympathy if any?
I wouldn't bet one dollar on that.
You want to believe it, but you're talking about the SS in reference to killing a Jew.
None of us really know what went through their minds, and I'm happy for that. I am of the opinion that most people feel like F22Raptor does, if for no other reason than to comprehend the brutality of it. To kill without remorse, particularly unarmed women and children changes humanity in a way that most of us have never seen first hand (I'm thankful for that too).
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None of us really know what went through their minds, and I'm happy for that. I am of the opinion that most people feel like F22Raptor does, if for no other reason than to comprehend the brutality of it. To kill without remorse, particularly unarmed women and children changes humanity in a way that most of us have never seen first hand (I'm thankful for that too).
I hope no civilized person has to see anything as horrible as that, I already can't handle death in a peaceful way. When my great grandfather who served in Normandy died I couldn't get a grip on myself for weeks it hit me so hard. To see this would mentally scar me for life... as i'm sure this goes for the majority of others as well
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To kill without remorse, particularly unarmed women and children changes humanity in a way that most of us have never seen first hand (I'm thankful for that too).
But it happens all too often.
In my opinion, there is something in the human psyche that, once triggered, causes complete disregard for morality.
EDIT: What I mean by that, is that it could happen to anyone.
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It's very easy to comprehend when you dehumanize a people to the level of rats and pests. That's what they did. How many here would have moral difficulties shooting a rat, even if it had a young offspring? It happens in all wars, even today, even our wars. The Nazis just took it to an industrial level.
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When the individual is a subject of the state, all murders are possible.
Boo
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Needs work - there is some unnecessary detail like swapping his MP40 etc - and alot of what's there sounds a little too much like a Hallmark movie of the week
Your character doesn't have to be the terminator - but if he's in the SS-TV your character is not going to be standing there worrying about the act on the spot especially if hes been there for sometime.
To survive and function in such an environment its entirely likely he's reduced the selection process to no more than selecting cattle - members of the Totenkopfverbande were selected and trained to do so.
My suggestion would be your characters usual function was not selection or a KZ guard at all, but worked as a clerk in the KZ or something similar that way you can still have your story play out with little change.
Tronsky
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It's very easy to comprehend when you dehumanize a people to the level of rats and pests. That's what they did. How many here would have moral difficulties shooting a rat, even if it had a young offspring? It happens in all wars, even today, even our wars. The Nazis just took it to an industrial level.
ThisNone of us really know what went through their minds, and I'm happy for that. I am of the opinion that most people feel like F22Raptor does, if for no other reason than to comprehend the brutality of it. To kill without remorse, particularly unarmed women and children changes humanity in a way that most of us have never seen first hand (I'm thankful for that too).
And that's what they did. 6 million Jews; 12 million others. For the Master Race.
I can't comprehend the idea of thinking an entire group of people is on the same level as vermin, or subhuman, and hence should be exterminated, but that's what happened.
This isn't about the standard soldier.
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It's very easy to comprehend when you dehumanize a people to the level of rats and pests. That's what they did. How many here would have moral difficulties shooting a rat, even if it had a young offspring? It happens in all wars, even today, even our wars. The Nazis just took it to an industrial level.
I have problems killing bugs that are larger than 3 inches, just can't do it, hate the crunch they make
This
And that's what they did. 6 million Jews; 12 million others. For the Master Race.
I can't comprehend the idea of thinking an entire group of people is on the same level as vermin, or subhuman, and hence should be exterminated, but that's what happened.
This isn't about the standard soldier.
I tried to remain hopeful that maybe one thought against
Needs work - there is some unnecessary detail like swapping his MP40 etc - and alot of what's there sounds a little too much like a Hallmark movie of the week
Your character doesn't have to be the terminator - but if he's in the SS-TV your character is not going to be standing there worrying about the act on the spot especially if hes been there for sometime.
To survive and function in such an environment its entirely likely he's reduced the selection process to no more than selecting cattle - members of the Totenkopfverbande were selected and trained to do so.
My suggestion would be your characters usual function was not selection or a KZ guard at all, but worked as a clerk in the KZ or something similar that way you can still have your story play out with little change.
Tronsky
Well I made it to where he didn't care about beating the snot out of em, but he would think a little before actually killing someone
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I hope no civilized person has to see anything as horrible as that, I already can't handle death in a peaceful way. When my great grandfather who served in Normandy died I couldn't get a grip on myself for weeks it hit me so hard. To see this would mentally scar me for life... as i'm sure this goes for the majority of others as well
It has happened numerous times in the last 100 years.
Take a look at this list somebody compiled:
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html
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I tried to remain hopeful that maybe one thought against
I understand. It's squealing horrible to think about, and hope is one thing that can provide some comfort in such a sickening thought.
It's still difficult to comprehend how Hitler managed to make all of these people think a fellow person was subhuman.
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This
I can't comprehend the idea of thinking an entire group of people is on the same level as vermin, or subhuman, and hence should be exterminated, but that's what happened.
6 of my uncles served in vietnam. 2 of the 6 also in korea.1 who was a Green Beret in vietnam. I say on behalf of most vietnam vets I've spoken to.
they think that the vietnamese are rats. nothing but vermin. they felt no different killing a VC or NVA soldier then they would shooting a racoon. To this day my uncles still think that they are nothing but sewer rats
P.S didnt mean to hijack the thread :salute
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I had a 12 page essay to write back in high school for my senior year, it basically said to pick an idol - write up a biography based on my observations and then go into character and read it to the class. It was a history class, more so it was about literature, the person must write the paper well enough to pass, and the teacher was a part time college professor by night.
We were told we could use props, I bought a WW1 headgear and goggles (replica of course). To get into the character I decided to go hunting in Georgia with some family, although the deer season wasn't filling as I hoped, I did bag a turkey - which the idea was I never really "understood" this persons state of mind at the time. It was by far the worse and toughest assignment I ever written on, main reason is the bullet to the head really can't be described, frankly there isn't many to talk about the subject - let alone freely.
Basically my essay concluded when he was shot in the head, as I expressed its impossible to continue without fulling knowing how one felt, basically I lowered the bar and simply said - he couldn't be without his men.
If you didn't know by now, my essay was on Baron von Richthofen, so respected in my mind I named a german shepherd Baron.
Kudo for opening your mind and putting it on paper, however in reality its best we never try to imagine the horror, as I could not imagine taking a bullet to the head and surviving - let alone ask someone how they felt about it.
/great story btw, brought back some memories :)
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6 of my uncles served in vietnam. 2 of the 6 also in korea.1 who was a Green Beret in vietnam. I say on behalf of most vietnam vets I've spoken to.
they think that the vietnamese are rats. nothing but vermin. they felt no different killing a VC or NVA soldier then they would shooting a racoon. To this day my uncles still think that they are nothing but sewer rats
P.S didnt mean to hijack the thread :salute
The few that I've spoken to weren't like that, though they did hate. They also didn't hate the Vietnamese people as a whole. Did your Uncles and the others feel the South Vietnamese were vermin too?
One person I spoke to at lenth was one of the early Advisors, and he was very matter of fact about it. He said the first time he killed a soldier, it made him sick to his stomach, but he also realized that soldier was trying to kill him. He then said that it was not difficult from then on. But he told me this without perjoratives. He told me that he did what he needed to do.
I actually forgot about my conversation with him until you posted that. Thanks. :)
Sorry for the re-hijack.
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I have problems killing bugs that are larger than 3 inches, just can't do it, hate the crunch they make
Don't worry. The machine gun's report will drown out all crunching sounds. And whimpers. And cries for mercy.
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I had a 12 page essay to write back in high school for my senior year, it basically said to pick an idol - write up a biography based on my observations and then go into character and read it to the class. It was a history class, more so it was about literature, the person must write the paper well enough to pass, and the teacher was a part time college professor by night.
We were told we could use props, I bought a WW1 headgear and goggles (replica of course). To get into the character I decided to go hunting in Georgia with some family, although the deer season wasn't filling as I hoped, I did bag a turkey - which the idea was I never really "understood" this persons state of mind at the time. It was by far the worse and toughest assignment I ever written on, main reason is the bullet to the head really can't be described, frankly there isn't many to talk about the subject - let alone freely.
Basically my essay concluded when he was shot in the head, as I expressed its impossible to continue without fulling knowing how one felt, basically I lowered the bar and simply said - he couldn't be without his men.
If you didn't know by now, my essay was on Baron von Richthofen, so respected in my mind I named a german shepherd Baron.
Kudo for opening your mind and putting it on paper, however in reality its best we never try to imagine the horror, as I could not imagine taking a bullet to the head and surviving - let alone ask someone how they felt about it.
/great story btw, brought back some memories :)
Thanks, at first the story didn't bother me but towards the end reality was setting in and the deeper I got the worse I felt, but I wanted to show that even though i'm lazy and don't do a lot of work I can still conger up somewhat of a good story, words from my friends, my teacher, and the members on the board have really made my spirits fly the past few days
6 of my uncles served in vietnam. 2 of the 6 also in korea.1 who was a Green Beret in vietnam. I say on behalf of most vietnam vets I've spoken to.
they think that the vietnamese are rats. nothing but vermin. they felt no different killing a VC or NVA soldier then they would shooting a racoon. To this day my uncles still think that they are nothing but sewer rats
P.S didnt mean to hijack the thread :salute
I have to agree, the stuff I have read on both wars horrifies me, what they did to POW's is unacceptable
I understand. It's squealing horrible to think about, and hope is one thing that can provide some comfort in such a sickening thought.
It's still difficult to comprehend how Hitler managed to make all of these people think a fellow person was subhuman.
A lot of the people who were in the military for Hitler... I have to think, the Majority of them were what? Normal people before the war, or maybe wanted revenge for ww1, but a lot of them I know had to have been just normal citizens. I guess the offer of a brighter future made them all change their life style, to bad it back fired
Don't worry. The machine gun's report will drown out all crunching sounds. And whimpers. And cries for mercy.
:confused: Good god...
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Get off my lawn! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NelBNtNm8l0
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Kat, I was refering to north vietnamese.
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Get off my lawn! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NelBNtNm8l0
I cried at the end of that movie, we need more people in this world like his character
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some of you guys would probably find the book 'The Lucifer Effect' by Philip Zimbardo really interesting, or at least have a read up on 'The Stanford Prison Experiment'
sadly it doesn't take very much at all to bring out the worst in humanity :(
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I cried at the end of that movie, we need more people in this world like his character
No we don't. His character is very much like the other "characters" we've been discussing in this thread. He's a man who's dehumanized an entire people and reduced them to "sandbags". We do not need more people whose souls are ripped out when they're barely adults. People who struggle trough life and only regain their humanity when they're senior citizens. That's Eastwood's character.
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6 of my uncles served in vietnam. 2 of the 6 also in korea.1 who was a Green Beret in vietnam. I say on behalf of most vietnam vets I've spoken to.
they think that the vietnamese are rats. nothing but vermin. they felt no different killing a VC or NVA soldier then they would shooting a racoon. To this day my uncles still think that they are nothing but sewer rats
P.S didnt mean to hijack the thread :salute
Are you the same guy with the SS grandfather? You are full of information.
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No we don't. His character is very much like the other "characters" we've been discussing in this thread. He's a man who's dehumanized an entire people and reduced them to "sandbags". We do not need more people whose souls are ripped out when they're barely adults. People who struggle trough life and only regain their humanity when they're senior citizens. That's Eastwood's character.
Me thinks you are taking that too far, waaay too far.
That movie was awesome, btw. One f my favorite movies of all time! :rock
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Are you the same guy with the SS grandfather? You are full of information.
yep. but this is on the other side of the family
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If they asked me why I did what I did, I honestly wouldn’t have an answer… If they asked me how many poor souls I had brutally beaten or killed I feel that I could not answer. If they asked me how I could live with myself after this horror story I could not tell for I do not have an answer. One story haunts me more than any other a woman who had used her own body for protection for her young child, I was their death sentence, they had no chance.
Before the war the idea of killing someone had never come to mind, if it had I’m sure I would have protested the idea. To think that a person could kill another person is beyond me. I mean the victim has a history in life, all that was worked up to get to where they were cut off by the brutal hand of man, the idea sickened me. Yet here I am doing the very thing I never gave a second thought about.
I worked at a sorting station at a concentration camp somewhere in Austria, I forget the name as it has been to long. Day after day hundreds and sometimes thousands of Jews would pass me, my Mp-40 at hand constantly ready to pull the trigger. I felt it was my duty to protect the world from all impurities that challenged our perfection in this world.
I had never shot anyone yet, most of the time someone got out of line I would simply kick them and shout to get back in line, sometimes I would hit them with the butt of my gun to make them cooperate. The questions that followed I had no answer for, the “Why are you doing this” they often times shouted under the blows of me and my fellow collogues. I didn’t like to think about the pain we inflicted on their frail bodies, the injuries that could end up having them die or be killed. I was a monster but at the same time attempted pity on the poor souls.
In early fall of 1944, we were done in, I was moved to another camp that demanded more brutal treatment than my previous one, We were on edge as news that the Soviet front was fast approaching and was becoming unstoppable. Brutality increased as we attempted to eradicate as much life as we could before the final blow was stuck to us. This was the first time I was ever demanded to shoot a living person. In the sorting line men were separated from young children and women, the women and children were send off to the crematoriums or shot on the spot, I was assigned to kill a woman who was on the ground huddled over her young infant who appeared to have been severely beaten. The tears strained the ground, the screams pierced the air, she begged for life.
My Superior officer dragged the two over to a dirt field and exchanged my submachine gun for a rifle, he ordered me to shoot them like dogs. I thought about asking to have someone else do it, I thought of the rebellion I would get for being soft, I grabbed the rifle and told them to stand. The woman shouted again that her life be spared along with her child. My superior walked off to go beat some other prisoners who weren’t cooperating and left me the job to do. I walked over to her and the child and kneeled down. Words refused to come out but I finally uttered “I’m sorry I have to do this, it pleases me no more than it does you” I sighed deeply of all the things I wanted to do this defiantly was not one of them.
Her shouting stopped and she looked at me, the eyes showed no sign of life just fear and despair. There was nothing I could do but assure her it would be quick and I would try to be fast about it. She begun crying again and clutched her child close to her “I don’t care about myself anymore, just please don’t hurt my baby” she managed to scream out. The child had begun to cry to over his mother’s distraught figure. These words still haunt me today. For I wish I could have saved one of them, but in the end my superior came back and asked why I had not killed them. He laughed and went over and stood them up, I had no choice. I raised my gun to her head, I’m sure she didn’t want to see her child die before her eyes. She turned around and shielded the toddler, I aimed and closed me eyes. I didn’t hear the shot, all I felt was the pat on my back as my superior told me to open my eyes and behold the scene of which plagues my dreams still. The woman had been shot in the back of the head, her figure was spread along the ground, eyes open, staring blankly at me.
The feeling of sickness filled me as I saw the infant crawl up to her and cry for her to move. I turned my head I did not wish to see this horrible scene. Gunshots rang out, my superior seeing I didn’t have it anymore to shoot again pulled out his pistol and fired at the child multiple times. They were both dead before me, this I may never forget.
"Show, don't tell..." These are the words spoken to me by my Writing Lab Teacher when I was in High School way back in 1966 when I wrote a three page story based upon an actual encounter my brother had experienced in Viet Nam.
"Show" versus "Tell"...what does that mean? What I learned was that it means to paint a picture with words.
Your task was to write about a picture that you selected, and I think you did a credible job. I do have a few questions for you to think about as you look at the picture in depth: was the Soldier shooting at the woman, or something else? Is the Woman the Mother of the child, and if so, what is she doing? If the woman is not the mother of the child, what is she doing, and who is she, and whose child is she carrying? If the Soldier is not shooting at the woman and child, at what is he shooting, and why? Who is the Soldier? Is the Soldier actually shooting, or just pointing his weapon? Where is his home? Where is the woman's home? Who is the child? Why do you think the Soldier is exterminating the Woman and Child and not protecting them from an unseen threat? How could you adopt your story to reflect an unseen threat and write it from the unseen threat's point of view? Who, or what, is the unseen threat?
When you think of each question I have asked, it opens up opportunity to enhance your story; paint with words.
Keep up the good work!
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(http://idata.over-blog.com/0/60/94/13/2008/02-2008/ScreenShot001-copie-1.jpg)
This version of the image appears even less ambiguous.
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(http://idata.over-blog.com/0/60/94/13/2008/02-2008/ScreenShot001-copie-1.jpg)
This version of the image appears even less ambiguous.
Well there goes my story up in flames...
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Well F22, the photo you posted is more ambiguous so if that's the one assigned, then go with it. Apparantly the original photo is even wider angle and includes some other civilians on the right who look like they are trying to get away. At least one web location that has the photo posted said this was an Ensatzgruppen action, and that would not lend itself well to the idea of squimishness. On the other hand, a few years ago I saw a video about someone I believe was an SS officer at one of the death camps, I believe Auschwitz, and he recently went public with his story as a clerk in charge of accounting for the money taken from the victims to refute the revisionists who say that very few Jews were killed, and that Germany wasn't really guilty of this crime. He went on record to say that the usual estimated number of victims is correct, not the low numbers of the revisionists, and that he was remorseful for what he did.
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Be careful when you talk about all of revisionist history like that. Much of it cleared away the hard feelings of the time that the previous history had been written in, but others took it too far, like what you said. The SS are a tricky subject not least because of their position in history. However, there is a rational explanation for their actions. First, empathy is not distributed equally, and so some people will naturally be more disposed to acts of exploitation, violence, even genocide than others. If you take that distribution and combine it with the distributions of those who were more active in the muscle side of the Nazi party and soldiers who had good track records in combat, you get a pretty good approximation of the criteria that described most SS members. Of course there were exceptions, such as the Jewish members, but every society has an 'SS' if you substitute any violent extremist organization for the Nazi party.
-Penguin
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I think it's a good story. There has to be some people who were involved in that had some shred of humanity and would have been distressed by having to commit such an act.
It strikes a good balance between the callousness of the superior and the despair of the underling.
If the subject had looked upon it as stepping on a bug, it wouldn't be a very interesting story now would it?
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Be careful when you talk about all of revisionist history like that...
Perhaps you should send your comment to Oskar Gröning, the person I referred to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning
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You can not speak for all of the members of the SS. Many joined the SS not because of they felt they were superior but rather as a status symbol. Be very careful when you try and tell the story of the executioner, you don't know a think about him other than her is wearing the uniform of a German soldier. I'd be willing to bet he was forced to do what he is doing in that photo. He probably didn't enjoy doing any more than you or I. Don't worry though, I don't blame you or anyone else for the knee jerk responses regarding Nazis, they are everyone's favorite bad guy to berate. After all, each and every one of the Nazis were a cold-blooded Jew-hating German, right?
Not a knee jerk reaction. I've spent most of my 51 years reading and researching WW2. I've had a long time fascination with the SS and how they got to be what they were. I did not say all Germans were Jew hating Nazi's. We're talking about an SS Einsatzgruppen, who were the first in after the troops, with the sole job of rounding up and executing the Jews and other undesirables. We're talking about fanatical Nazi's whose only purpose was to serve their master.
If you want to talk SS history and their role in WW2 I'll go up, around, down and over talking about them. Do not try and lump them in with the ordinary German soldiers who fought in WW2. You didn't join that club for the perks.
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You can not speak for all of the members of the SS. Many joined the SS not because of they felt they were superior but rather as a status symbol. Be very careful when you try and tell the story of the executioner, you don't know a think about him other than her is wearing the uniform of a German soldier. I'd be willing to bet he was forced to do what he is doing in that photo. He probably didn't enjoy doing any more than you or I. Don't worry though, I don't blame you or anyone else for the knee jerk responses regarding Nazis, they are everyone's favorite bad guy to berate. After all, each and every one of the Nazis were a cold-blooded Jew-hating German, right?
Yes the Nazis were.
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All Nazis didn't hate Jews, though they were at least indifferent to the suffering the Nazi party was inflicting on European Jewry, which isn't much better.
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Perhaps you should send your comment to Oskar Gröning, the person I referred to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning
You misquoted me. I had and still do concede that some revisionist historians went too far, while most of it cleared the picture up.
-Penguin
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updated it before I turned it in today, teacher had the :O face, I felt awesome!
If they asked me why I did what I did, I honestly wouldn’t have an answer… If they asked me how many poor souls I had brutally beaten or killed I feel that I could not answer. If they asked me how I could live with myself after this horror story, I could not tell for I do not have an answer. One story haunts me more than any other, a woman who had used her own body for protection for her young child, I was their death sentence, they had no chance. Before the war the idea of killing someone had never come to mind, if it had I’m sure I would have protested the idea. To think that a person could kill another person is beyond me. I mean the victim has a history in life, all that was worked up to get to where they being cut off by the brutal hand of man, the idea sickened me. Yet here I am doing the very thing I never gave a second thought about. I worked at a sorting station at a concentration camp somewhere in Austria, I forget the name as it has been too long. Day after day hundreds and sometimes thousands of Jews would pass me, my Mp-40 at hand constantly ready to pull the trigger. I felt it was my duty to protect the world from all impurities that challenged our perfection in this world. I had never shot anyone and hoped I would never have to. Most of the time someone got out of line I would simply kick them and shout to get back in line, sometimes I would hit them with the butt of my gun to make them cooperate. I had sympathy, I was weak minded but the pressure of what would happen to me if I didn't not meet the demands of the SS was un-Imaginable. I did not want to end up like the majority of the Jews that passed before me and were beaten and killed. I wormed my way in and out tuff situations. The questions that often followed their arrival I never had an answer to, the “Why are you doing this” and "What have we done to deserve this" they often times shouted under the blows of me
and my fellow collogues. I didn’t like to think about the pain we inflicted on their bodies, the injuries that could end up having them die or be killed. I was a monster but at the same time attempted pity on the poor souls. In early fall of 1944, we were done in, the Russian front was inching close and closer every second as we lost ground to the constant barrage of bombs and bullets. I was moved to another camp that demanded more brutal treatment than my previous one, We were on edge. Brutality increased as we attempted to eradicate as much life as we could before the final blow was stuck to us. This was the first time I was ever demanded to shoot a living person. In the sorting line men were separated from young children and women, the women and children were send off to the crematoriums or shot on the spot, I was assigned to kill a woman who was on the ground huddled over her toddler who appeared to have been severely beaten. The tears strained the ground, the screams that pierced the air, she begged for life, it was all too much for me. My Superior officer dragged the two over to a dirt field and exchanged my submachine gun for a rifle, he ordered me to shoot them like dogs. I thought about asking to have someone else do it, I thought of the rebellion I would get for protesting, I grabbed the rifle and hesitantly told them to stand. The woman shouted again that her life be spared along with her child. My superior walked off to go beat some other prisoners who weren’t cooperating and left me the job to do. I walked over to her and the child and kneeled down. Words refused to come out but I finally uttered “I’m sorry I have to do this, it pleases me no more than it does you” I sighed deeply of all the things I wanted to do this defiantly was not one of them, I never wanted to have to do anything like this. Her shouting stopped and she looked at me, the eyes told the story, nothing but fear and despair. I wanted to help more than anything but there was nothing I could do but assure her it would be quick and I would try to be fast about it. She began crying again and clutched her child close to her “I don’t care about myself anymore, just please don’t hurt my child” she screamed out. The child had begun to cry too, Reality must have set in and he realized that something bad was to happen soon. The looks of hopelessness still haunts my mind to this day. I wish I could have saved one of them, I would have given anything for both, but in the end my superior came back and asked why I had not killed them. I told him I was not feeling well. He laughed and went over and stood them up, I had no choice. Mind snapped to panic mode, I tried not to show it in my face, but inside I was screaming. I slowly raised my gun to her head, I’m sure she didn’t want to see her child die before her eyes. She turned around and shielded the toddler, I aimed and pulled the trigger eyes closed. I didn’t hear the shot, all I felt was the pat on my back as my superior told me to open my eyes and behold the scene of which plagues my dreams still. The woman had been shot in the back of the head, her figure was spread along the ground, eyes open, staring blankly at me. The feeling of sickness filled me as I saw the toddler crawl up to her and cry for her to move. I turned my head I did not wish to see this horrible scene. Gunshots rang out, my superior seeing I didn’t have it anymore to shoot again pulled out his pistol and fired at the child multiple times. The toddlers body lay spear across his mother's body, face tear stained, eyes blank and dead. Never would he see happiness, nor would he experience the joy of life alongside his parents. They were both dead before me, I made no move to save them, but I felt at the same time there was nothing I could have done anyway. My superior walked off laughing, the feeling of hatred filled me. There was nothing I could do, I took one last look at the 2 bodies and got back in line, still screaming inside to this day.
The paragraphs were spaced, but on copy and paste it isn't
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All Nazis didn't hate Jews, though they were at least indifferent to the suffering the Nazi party was inflicting on European Jewry, which isn't much better.
Not all germans hated Jews.
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Let's clear this up:
Not all Germans were Nazis
Not all Nazis hated Jews or the other 'inferior' races
Not all of that subgroup of Nazis killed anyone
Not all of that sub-subgroup of Nazis was a major political player
Nazi Germany is a classical example of totalitarianism. The powerful control the weak by fear and tricks, with the tricks employed being similarl to how the Americans were able to appear to be more numerous at the Battle of the Bulge.
The same applies to the Japanese. I should have cited a source to refute your claims of fanaticism earlier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan) One can clearly see that the Japanese were moving away from the cities, and the claims of millions to die for the defense of Japan were propaganda. The fanaticism simply wasn't there- it's evident in the evacuation plans that Japan cared about its citizens' lives.
-Penguin
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Remember, their are those who swear this never happened and are still attempting to eradicate all Jews. We will see worse in our lifetime that these poor souls went through...IMO :furious
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Let's clear this up:
Not all Germans were Nazis
Not all Nazis hated Jews or the other 'inferior' races
Not all of that subgroup of Nazis killed anyone
Not all of that sub-subgroup of Nazis was a major political player
Nazi Germany is a classical example of totalitarianism. The powerful control the weak by fear and tricks, with the tricks employed being similarl to how the Americans were able to appear to be more numerous at the Battle of the Bulge.
The same applies to the Japanese. I should have cited a source to refute your claims of fanaticism earlier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan) One can clearly see that the Japanese were moving away from the cities, and the claims of millions to die for the defense of Japan were propaganda. The fanaticism simply wasn't there- it's evident in the evacuation plans that Japan cared about its citizens' lives.
-Penguin
When you want to argue a point.... never use wiki links.
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The wiki page is well cited. I don't suppose that you'd like scholarly sources?
-Penguin
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Let's clear this up:
Not all Germans were Nazis
Not all Nazis hated Jews or the other 'inferior' races
Not all of that subgroup of Nazis killed anyone
Not all of that sub-subgroup of Nazis was a major political player
The SS equated the Jews to vermin. These are not the regular soldiers, nor simply members of the Nazi Party.
Nazi Germany is a classical example of totalitarianism. The powerful control the weak by fear and tricks, with the tricks employed being similarl to how the Americans were able to appear to be more numerous at the Battle of the Bulge.
This is an absolutely terrible analogy. And again, it doesn't talk to the point of the SS, which is specifically what was depicted in the picture. The SS weren't controlled by "fear and tricks", as you used above.
The same applies to the Japanese. I should have cited a source to refute your claims of fanaticism earlier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan) One can clearly see that the Japanese were moving away from the cities, and the claims of millions to die for the defense of Japan were propaganda. The fanaticism simply wasn't there- it's evident in the evacuation plans that Japan cared about its citizens' lives.
-Penguin
If you want to cite the Japanese in a valid comparison, research their killings of the ethnic Chinese, POWs, and others in Asian countries.
Since you use Wikipedia, here's a link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Crimes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Crimes), or do a Google search for "Japanese impaling babies" and look at the link titled "The rape of Nanking: the forgotten holocaust of World War II - Google "
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The Japanese were just as bad as the Nazis (atleast he Nazis treated POWs fairly well)
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The Japanese were just as bad as the Nazis (atleast he Nazis treated POWs fairly well)
but japs didnt do all those wacky "scientific experiments" on their POWs..did they?
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The SS equated the Jews to vermin. These are not the regular soldiers, nor simply members of the Nazi Party.
This is an absolutely terrible analogy. And again, it doesn't talk to the point of the SS, which is specifically what was depicted in the picture. The SS weren't controlled by "fear and tricks", as you used above.
If you want to cite the Japanese in a valid comparison, research their killings of the ethnic Chinese, POWs, and others in Asian countries.
Since you use Wikipedia, here's a link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Crimes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Crimes), or do a Google search for "Japanese impaling babies" and look at the link titled "The rape of Nanking: the forgotten holocaust of World War II - Google "
You know what, :lol I posted this in the wrong topic. I thought that I was posting in "Barefoot Gen". My bad. :o
-Penguin
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(atleast he Nazis treated POWs fairly well)
Not on the eastern front.
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You know what, :lol I posted this in the wrong topic. I thought that I was posting in "Barefoot Gen". My bad. :o
-Penguin
*smacks*
:)
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but japs didnt do all those wacky "scientific experiments" on their POWs..did they?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
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huh, never knew about that. I never really researched it though
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The japanese killed as many chinese civilians during the Sino-Japanese war as the germans killed jews during WW2. The Japanese were worse in every way.
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Oh yeah, I knew that. they went into chinese villages and just mowed them down. worked the survivors to death afterwards
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Let's clear this up:
Not all Germans were Nazis
Not all Nazis hated Jews or the other 'inferior' races
Not all of that subgroup of Nazis killed anyone
Not all of that sub-subgroup of Nazis was a major political player
Nazi Germany is a classical example of totalitarianism. The powerful control the weak by fear and tricks, with the tricks employed being similarl to how the Americans were able to appear to be more numerous at the Battle of the Bulge.
The same applies to the Japanese. I should have cited a source to refute your claims of fanaticism earlier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Japan) One can clearly see that the Japanese were moving away from the cities, and the claims of millions to die for the defense of Japan were propaganda. The fanaticism simply wasn't there- it's evident in the evacuation plans that Japan cared about its citizens' lives.
-Penguin
The day I need you to tell me about WW2 history Penguin, I'll let you know :aok
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it is good to see that the younger generations are not forgetting,these terrible times.
pretty well written from someone so young :salute
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In the end Germany got what it deserved for repeatedly clicking it's heels.
Some try to say only a handfull of folks were responsible....... it was much larger than that.
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The day I need you to tell me about WW2 history Penguin, I'll let you know :aok
Yeah Lol, He's about one post away from my ignore list. Its one thing to be wrong, its another to just make things up and think your right.
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The day I need you to tell me about WW2 history Penguin, I'll let you know :aok
Read the post right underneath it and you'll that in my haste I had posted in the wrong thread. I'm sure that you're well aware of the facts.
-Penguin