Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on February 13, 2012, 01:14:35 PM
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Comparing K-61 vs. P-40f:
1. Which turns better at low altitude?
2. Which dives better?
3. Which climbs better (from low altitude)?
Thank you,
Slade :salute
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P-40F on all, I'd wager, though the Ki-61 dives pretty well.
the problem is the Ki-61 has an unhistorically wide turn radius and has a nasty terrible stall at slow speeds. It's in dire need of a revisit. It should be able to turn with a FM2 but it doesn't.
That said, as it is in AH the Ki will be a threat, but the P-40F would probably hold the advantage in all but top speed, maybe?
EDIT: Assuming a "light" load on the P-40F so that it turns better. Forgot to mention that.
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Thanks Krusty.
>> It should be able to turn with a FM2 but it doesn't.
Wow! Never knew that. :eek:
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Ki-61 has a significant climb rate advantage over the P-40F:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=118&p2=47&pw=2>ype=2&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
Speed is closer, but still in the Ki-61's favor:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=118&p2=47&pw=2>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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Don't forget the guns! The Ki-61 has those 20mm cannons in the nose!
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Ki-61 has a superior roll rate than the P40s, use a rolling scissor to your advantage. He slips up once, that 20mm is gonna tear him apart.
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Why is the P-40F climb rate so low? Is that a fully decked out version?
From memory and past discussions I'm sure folks provided info with much higher rate of climb on that puppy.
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Instantaneous and sustained with no flaps KI-61 has the edge in level turn, but with full flaps the P-40 turn slightly better at 500ft and 25% fuel.
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The F is the fastest of the P40's (minus vs the P40N down low while WEP is engaged), but it is still sluggish. It is also the heaviest of the P40's in AH.
The best P40 climber in AH on military power is the EW C model version, believe it or not.
Concerning the P40F vs the Ki-61 "Tony", in the hands of equal pilots I'd give the edge to the Tony. The attribute that separates those two aircraft most is the acceleration rate, the Tony leaves the P40F in the dust. The Tony can also climb a lot better. I'm not sure of the turn radius for each aircraft, but whatever it is the Tony can do it faster so even if the P40F can turn tighter, the Tony will keep up with it. Oh, and flaps are a non issue with P40's with the new models since they can not deploy until 160mph or lower.
The P40's also dip that left wing real easy after the re-model. It does not pull out of a dive nearly as well as it used to.
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the KI only needs one fleeting/passing shot and the gun package is fantastic (2x20mm in the center is win) so my money is on the KI. . .if you have a bit of alt and can control its strange stalling behavior.
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I flew the Ki-61 in a number of FSO and snapshot events, it certainly doesn't get the credit it deserves in Aces High. It's sluggish at slower speed, faster it goes it becomes a gem of the orient, given it faces its historical setup I've seen it against F4u's, P-47s, F4Fs, P40s and P39s.
It cannot compete in the Late War Arena, however that doesn't mean its totally useless - it can dive at very high speeds and turn without a problem, armored and its gun package is extremely deadly. Thus being said I haven't seen a P-40F vs a Ki-61 however, I would put my money on the Ki-61.
I've flown a P-40F in FSO and its a completely a dog at 20-25k, no where to compete against a 109, this doesn't say much because the Ki-61 is in the same class - its totally useless going above 16-17k where its speed drops and a P-40F becomes a little faster.
Taken down below 15k I believe the Ki-61 holds the advantage, given its flown correctly and uses its acceleration and roll rate, it can
be a nifty little plane - one of the few furballers i've ever seen (kermit) used it quite well in the late war main arena.
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P-40F on all, I'd wager, though the Ki-61 dives pretty well.
the problem is the Ki-61 has an unhistorically wide turn radius and has a nasty terrible stall at slow speeds. It's in dire need of a revisit. It should be able to turn with a FM2 but it doesn't.
That said, as it is in AH the Ki will be a threat, but the P-40F would probably hold the advantage in all but top speed, maybe?
EDIT: Assuming a "light" load on the P-40F so that it turns better. Forgot to mention that.
I have knife fought many times at speeds below 150. When you use common sense and keep the wings unloaded, there is no nasty stall. I never encountered such a thing.
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If you keep the wings unloaded, you're basically never turning? :headscratch:
Others HAVE experienced it. I believe even Widewing has been very critical of the Ki-61 stall.
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If you keep the wings unloaded, you're basically never turning? :headscratch:
Others HAVE experienced it. I believe even Widewing has been very critical of the Ki-61 stall.
It is all about angles in the turn. I never said sustained, nor did I do sustained turns, but it was fun to do. The only time I stalled was when it was deliberate and it was no worse than many of the other planes.
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FM-2 is 7486 lbs wing area 260 sq. ft for 28.79 ft/lbs wing loading.
Ki-61 is 7650 lbs (pretty much the same) and wing area 215 sq. ft (only 83 percent of an FM-2s) for 35.5 ft/lbs wing loading.
I don't see why it should turn with it? Just because its Japanese does not make it able to out turn every other plane. Its not an A6M or Ki-43. Its as heavy as a Spitfire VIII with less wing area.
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Historic tests showed it to, Squire. That's all.
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Wing loading gives a rough gauge, but it is not the be all, end all data point for determining turning ability.
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Historic tests showed it to, Squire. That's all.
The Ki-61 tested against FM-2 in that test wasn't the variant included in AH but an earlier lighter variant.
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That makes some sense the earlier Ki-61-1 varients of @6500 lbs were in the same ballpark for wing loading at least. "Out turning" varies with alt and speed as well so I could see it comparing favorable to an FM-2 in some flight regimes.
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We have the most poor performance version of the "hien"...though it has good 20mm cannons on the nose.
I hope HTC will release more Ki-61 variants...
The Ki-61-I-Ko/Otsu (this early version is 250kg lighter than Ki-61-I-Tei, flight performance is better. 591km/h at 5000m, 5min31sec to 5000m)
The Ki-61-I-Hei (MG151/20 in the wings.) has good punch against buffs with some flight performance loss.
The Ki-61-II-Kai is better than Ki-61-I-Tei at speed/climb/accel with 1500hp HA-140 engine. 610km/h at 6000m, 6min to 5000m. and its 20mm is increased to 200 rounds each (Tei is 120 rounds).
The Ki-100-I is much better than Ki-61 at turn and accel with Ki-61-II's armament.
:salute
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Historic tests showed it to, Squire. That's all.
Was that broken out into degrees/sec of sustained turn, or just one of those general ubiquitous "out turned" statements that test flights of the era were famous for? And that's an honest question, not a troll...
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It wasn't listed in feet, but it said they had the same turn radius and rate as each other. Neither could be listed as superior to the other in the turn, that kind of thing.
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I think we established with documentation from three separate sources during our last Ki-100 debate that AH's Ki-61 had unaccountable extra weight, if memory serves.
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Was that broken out into degrees/sec of sustained turn, or just one of those general ubiquitous "out turned" statements that test flights of the era were famous for? And that's an honest question, not a troll...
Here's a link to that test: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Tony-I.pdf (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/japan/Tony-I.pdf)
There's no numerical data given. The report states the following: "The minimum turning radius was equal to that of the FM-2."
The weight of the Ki-61 is question was 6150lbs. So, as I mentioned, the Tony in question is a significantly (1500lbs) lighter earlier variant than the Ki-61 which can be found from AH. And the normal take off weight of the earlier variant was 6504lbs so the Tony in the fly off wasn't fully loaded.