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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: USBP1969 on February 15, 2012, 06:24:10 AM

Title: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: USBP1969 on February 15, 2012, 06:24:10 AM
Another "oldie" I suspect, but...when Pearl Harbor was attacked the first thing (according to what I have read) hit was the PBY field / ramps.  The sailors jumped into the PBY's and fired their defensive machine guns while parked on the ramp.

Real?  Yes?

Provide some degree of cover on takeoff roll?  Yes.

USBP1969
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: olds442 on February 15, 2012, 07:23:19 AM
i don't want B17's acting like flak units.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: MAINER on February 15, 2012, 07:34:35 AM
i don't want B17's acting like flak units.

so I cant tell you how many times I have been vulched in bombers taking off and have wanted to blast them. Happened in real life let it happen in game
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: guncrasher on February 15, 2012, 08:33:39 AM
dave has many forms.



Semp
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: Karnak on February 15, 2012, 11:10:24 AM
This capability was specifically removed in AH because people were using B-17s and B-26s as emergency light AA batteries.  I doubt very much that it would be added back in.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: Pigslilspaz on February 15, 2012, 05:46:55 PM
I think it should be implemented but with one major requirement, plane needs to hit a certain speed before you can fire. Maybe 50-75mph?
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: GNucks on February 15, 2012, 06:32:53 PM
What is anybody taking off from a flashing field (much less heavy (much much less in a four-engine bomber)) for anyway? If you got shot on takeoff you shouldn't be asking yourself why you couldn't defend yourself, you should be asking yourself why you were there in the first place.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: thndregg on February 15, 2012, 06:58:19 PM
The limitation the game features is fine. Better tactical planning and awareness is recommended.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: colmbo on February 15, 2012, 07:13:04 PM
The gunners were not at their stations for takeoff or landing.  In the B-24 there is a placard that specifically prohibits being in the tail turret during takeoff and landing.  I know someone who sat in the tail during a landing in the B-24, the fuselage kind of "whips" around on touchdown -- it slapped him around enough he had to hand on -- he stated he would never do it again.  :lol

The crew were in the radio room and cockpit on the B-17, in the waist and behind the cockpit on the B-24 for takeoff and landing.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: Butcher on February 15, 2012, 08:18:35 PM
This is a video game not real life, if this was the case then a dozen B-17s could up on a runway and provide flak - so the answer is hell no.

If you can't manage to get off the runway then you should of upped earlier.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: B-17 on February 15, 2012, 09:22:53 PM
A number of times, I provided flak cover in my big beautiful B-17s-- I upped with 25% fuel, dropped my bombs on the runway, and used full flaps to get in the air quick. Some dirty vulcher tried to get me... he put a hole in my fuel tank, but I shot him down :devil
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: BERN1 on February 15, 2012, 09:28:07 PM
this was a major problem is FA.
they even made it so the guns wouldn't fire unless you were rollin ,then I think changed it back again.
it was  a major sticking point/whine in the fa forums,was kinda cool to dropa couple of bombs with a 30 second fuse delay and wait for the bombers to re up.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on February 15, 2012, 10:56:53 PM
What is anybody taking off from a flashing field (much less heavy (much much less in a four-engine bomber)) for anyway? If you got shot on takeoff you shouldn't be asking yourself why you couldn't defend yourself, you should be asking yourself why you were there in the first place.

 :aok
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: USBP1969 on February 19, 2012, 09:31:49 PM
So much of what I see are comments here that are "game oriented" and not realism oriented. Yes - I do indeed know it's a game, other wise I would have been dead years ago in Fighter Ace 1.5  The question is therefore what's more important, realism or gameism?

The example I gave in my initial post concerning Pearl Harbor and the Catalina sailors manning their guns is a matter of history.  That was real.  IMO AH should desire to make their Combat Flight Sim as real as possible.

USBP1969
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: B-17 on February 19, 2012, 09:47:08 PM
Maybe only if you've upped one plane rather than a formation.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: Vadjan-Sama on February 19, 2012, 11:01:09 PM
So much of what I see are comments here that are "game oriented" and not realism oriented. Yes - I do indeed know it's a game, other wise I would have been dead years ago in Fighter Ace 1.5  The question is therefore what's more important, realism or gameism?

The example I gave in my initial post concerning Pearl Harbor and the Catalina sailors manning their guns is a matter of history.  That was real.  IMO AH should desire to make their Combat Flight Sim as real as possible.

USBP1969


We could do that long time ago and HTC take it off, so I don't think so they are goin to put it back again cuz im pretty sure they have a long long thinking about it and then was gone, be sure they got a reason for that.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: phatzo on February 19, 2012, 11:23:56 PM
The gunners were not at their stations for takeoff or landing.  In the B-24 there is a placard that specifically prohibits being in the tail turret during takeoff and landing.  I know someone who sat in the tail during a landing in the B-24, the fuselage kind of "whips" around on touchdown -- it slapped him around enough he had to hand on -- he stated he would never do it again.  :lol

The crew were in the radio room and cockpit on the B-17, in the waist and behind the cockpit on the B-24 for takeoff and landing.
just in case anyone missed it the first time
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: RedBull1 on February 20, 2012, 01:01:14 AM
personally I'd say yes... I mean if he wants to act like a Wirb and navigate a B-17 through trees hills, etc....Well...Good luck! Otherwise act like it's a M16, 1 distracts him, 1 kills him, just my opinion...  :bolt:
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: Rob52240 on February 20, 2012, 04:46:27 AM
dave has many forms.

Semp

 :rofl

I think Dave has transcended to being an Idea now and thus impossible to ban.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: EVZ on February 21, 2012, 02:15:24 PM
So much of what I see are comments here that are "game oriented" and not realism oriented.  IMO AH should desire to make their Combat Flight Sim as real as possible.
They have ... The Pearl Harbor example you mention is a RARE example of heroism in planes that were being serviced for imminent takeoff during a suprise attack ... Those circumstances are quite different from the unrealistic scenario of players repeatedly upping formations of bombers to the runway as ack batteries ... THAT is PURE gamisum and has NOTHING to do with reality ... So I guess we can file YOUR request along with all those other "GAME ORIENTED" ones you ? SEEM ? to take exception to ???
:lol
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: USBP1969 on February 22, 2012, 12:34:16 PM
EVZ - It's kinda basic.  If was possible in real life, that's real.

FWIW RedBull I don't fly bombers and don't plan to do so, just trying to make it real. 

Been around a while (pushing 70 years as I write this) and I have watched PPC, IPSC and SASS go to the dark side (realism to gamism) and it was sad to see.  But... this is a game while those were initially designed to simulate reality.

And, again for the record, AH is #1, regardless.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: EVZ on February 23, 2012, 10:32:48 AM
EVZ - It's kinda basic.  If was possible in real life, that's real.
Sorry...no, quite a bit of what CAN BE DONE in this world is NOT ALLOWED ... your name may be Rumpleb17skins but you can't turn Bombers into ACK guns ... REALITY OBJECTS! and the world is safe for another day or 2 anyway.
:cool:
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: phatzo on February 23, 2012, 05:00:33 PM
Guys, a guy who flies a b-24 has stated in this thread why although it may be possible it is improbable.
Title: Re: Bomber Defensive Machinguns
Post by: Chalenge on February 25, 2012, 02:49:43 PM
-1

The major difference between this and historical use is the endless supply of aircraft and pilots in AH.

NO!