Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: bbosen on February 19, 2012, 04:09:14 PM
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I'd like to see more activity in the Custom Arenas.
I know that there is already some mechanism to keep a Custom Arena "alive" for a few minutes after the last player leaves it. Could we adjust that timer to last longer? Could it be "tweaked" to last long enough to always keep at least 3 Custom Arenas alive? That way, the most recent 3 arenas to have ANY activity would always be available (and additional ones could be started anytime).
I think the result of this would be that the best arena ideas would tend to linger on longer than any individual has time to manage it, and might encourage the entire Custom Arena concept. If people keep coming back to a good arena, it would have a better chance to be "discovered" by others and gain in popularity. It would tend to remain visible until somebody else came along with a competing arena idea that earned even greater popularity.
....As it is right now, most of the time I check the "Custom Arena" area, there's nothing happening at all. I am left to wonder if I just missed something good that I could have joined had I checked a few minutes sooner.
:salute
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+1000
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why not just have the settings available for download and anybody that wants to use certain arena can open one at any time.
semp
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why not just have the settings available for download and anybody that wants to use certain arena can open one at any time.
semp
Guncrasher: I'm not sure I understand your meaning. It sounds like your proposal (if conveniently implemented) would make it trivial for anybody to "clone" an arena with which they are already familiar? Do I have that correct? That would be helpful, and would tend to reward good arena design concepts as I had hoped.
...But I was also hoping for some kind of "persistence", so that airfields captured would remain captured, RADAR knocked out would remain knocked out, etc.
Can your proposal give us all of that?
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"persistence"
The above recommendation is the key to seeding the custom arenas. Just imagine if the MA, Early war, mid war, AVA, DA, arenas turned off and fell off the radar.
"persistence" is the key to seeding an arena IMO. It's what most every other sim incorporates into their available arenas.
As an addition to the "persistence" wish logging capability's would go a long way to getting players and squadrons involved and connected to a custom arena, much like we see in FSO..
Perhaps this type of thing is already in the works so lets give the developers the benefit of the doubt.. :aok
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I'm sure the time out was intended to prevent 10000 custom arenas clogging up the server. Instead it seems to be preventing the capability from reaching it's potential.
I don't know the answer, but there should be some way to run a more permanent custom arena.
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As an addition to the "persistence" wish logging capability's would go a long way to getting players and squadrons involved and connected to a custom arena, much like we see in FSO..
Perhaps this type of thing is already in the works so lets give the developers the benefit of the doubt.. :aok
I like that too. I should have added that thought into my original suggestion.
:salute
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Guncrasher: I'm not sure I understand your meaning. It sounds like your proposal (if conveniently implemented) would make it trivial for anybody to "clone" an arena with which they are already familiar? Do I have that correct? That would be helpful, and would tend to reward good arena design concepts as I had hoped.
...But I was also hoping for some kind of "persistence", so that airfields captured would remain captured, RADAR knocked out would remain knocked out, etc.
Can your proposal give us all of that?
perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of user created arenas. while the capture of bases there is allowed, they were not meant to be used as win the war type of arena.
semp
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Other than a few dedicated players and terrain testors, the custom arenas seem to have less intrest than the WW1 arena. As for a genisi of arena design, I did mention terrain testors a moment ago. This looks more like a back handed attempt to let your arena stay active forever, or until you dismantle it. Semp may not be too far off on the win-Da-war motivation either.
After all the problems with the near permenant free H2H arenas years ago, making your arena dependant on realtime user intrest to keep it open is a very sound decision on managments part. Things like personal custom arenas have a bad tendancy to entital themselves and their creator to extraordinary privleges due to the precidence of it's time alive. Kind of like the longer you squat in an abandoned building the more you feel you own the property rather than the bank.
I can see the whine here in the forum: Waaaaa, Hitech how dare you delete my personal arena without asking my permission!! I pay you $14.95 a month so you work for me!!!
So why not belly up to the bar and take the risk of directness? Ask Hitech to change the custom arenas to stay alive untill each arena creator chooses to take them down to make you personaly happy? But, that approach removes all possibility of finessing any concessions from Hitech. Or gathering community peer preassure to your cause via your selflessness and concern to the utility of a process that so far shows minor community use.
If you were concerned for the process and community itself you would be speaking to the community attempting to determine why they under utilize the custom arena offering. Instead you are beseaching Caesar to grant you a personal boon by acting as Cato to the Roman mob. Got Bread??
I've always liked Hitech's assertion that what you want is not what you need.
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I've always liked Hitech's assertion that what you want is not what you need.
The idea is more like , the trick is giving people what they want, not what they ask for. Because they are very rarely the same thing.
HiTech
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All you need to do is leave your computer attached to the arena.
HiTech
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The idea is more like , the trick is giving people what they want, not what they ask for. Because they are very rarely the same thing.
HiTech
My apology for misquoting you sir.
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So why not belly up to the bar and take the risk of directness? Ask Hitech to change the custom arenas to stay alive untill each arena creator chooses to take them down to make you personaly happy? But, that approach removes all possibility of finessing any concessions from Hitech. Or gathering community peer preassure to your cause via your selflessness and concern to the utility of a process that so far shows minor community use.
If you were concerned for the process and community itself you would be speaking to the community attempting to determine why they under utilize the custom arena offering. Instead you are beseaching Caesar to grant you a personal boon by acting as Cato to the Roman mob. Got Bread??
Sort of what the wish list is for, rather than bothering HTC with direct contact, they can peruse the forum and decide what they want to respond to.
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HiTech's answer for extending the life of the arena seemed to be reasonable. It means that the creator of the setup would need to leave their computer logged on for the duration.
I have a different question, that does concern the usage of the arenas that have been asked for and now seem to be empty.
Why bother with Early War and Mid War? << Flame on! On just about every occasion that I fly there I come into a situation where the numbers are lopsided. I have NEVER had a sense that any different strategies are used there that are not present in Late War. Are folks that afraid of 262s and La7s? I JUST DON'T GET IT?
It is my belief that the addition of so many arenas, back when it first occured, almost killed the Combat Theater now named Axis versus Allies. It presented so many colorful options on the menu, that people stopped reading the menu and started going for the most popular buzz..... LW MA. Any bump in any other numbers is a result of some sort of EVENT that has caused the number on the menu to be inflated.
For instance, the LW arena is reset, and people are forced to either take a break or find another arena. During this time I have noticed WW1 numbers jump as well as other arenas.
What does all this mean, to the Custom Arena and its future? I believe that if the Custom Arenas total #s could be shown on the main menu, there would be a bump in its activity as well. As for, Early War and Mid War, I am of the opinion that they are NOTHING BUT FLUFF. They are just as detrimental to the LW MA as split arenas were. Maybe if the had a different strategic war component, they would be useful. As it is now, all I see is the addition of a few names on the front page for participation in something much less worthy than FSO, and other Special Events. Forgive my honesty.
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Why bother with Early War and Mid War? << Flame on! On just about every occasion that I fly there I come into a situation where the numbers are lopsided. I have NEVER had a sense that any different strategies are used there that are not present in Late War. Are folks that afraid of 262s and La7s? I JUST DON'T GET IT?
As for, Early War and Mid War, I am of the opinion that they are NOTHING BUT FLUFF. They are just as detrimental to the LW MA as split arenas were.
I'll bite...
How can you say the low numbers in EW, MW and Custom Arenas are detrimental to the LW arena? I think the HO's, Vulches, Ch200 crap, and overall poor sportsmanship and gameplay are more a detriment to LW than having other arena choices.
I personally prefer smaller more intimate engagements which, IMO, generate better fights than horde-on-horde HO at every merge that I see in LW...and I'm not afraid of 262s and Lalas. More choices is fine. If they aren't your thing, that's fine. If the LW arena isn't someone elses thing, that's fine - it doesn't mean they can't hack it in the LW arena, or they're afraid to fly there.
The LW arena, although most populated, isn't the end-all be-all of the Aces High experience, so please check your ego and attitude at the door.
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Bustr wrote:
"Ask Hitech to change the custom arenas to stay alive untill each arena creator chooses to take them down"
I think I've been misunderstood here.
That's not at all what I had in mind. I was hoping that the Custom Arena concept might benefit by encouraging feedback from the community of users. Under my proposal, that community feedback would be required to extend the life of a small number of arenas (I had suggested 3 of them). The idea was to count the community's activity as a kind of "vote", trusting that mechanism might create a competitive environment to cultivate better and better custom arenas.
However, HiTech has spoken. Under today's environment, a hoster can keep his arena alive by simply remaining connected. OK, that seems final enough. Full control goes to those dedicated enough to perpetuate their own arenas. Point taken. In a way, that's pretty much what Bustr proposed.
:salute
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Actually I would rather propose I would like bread. Fresh and very warm with butter on it. Just don't tell the rest of the mob...OK..
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Bustr wrote:
"Ask Hitech to change the custom arenas to stay alive untill each arena creator chooses to take them down"
I think I've been misunderstood here.
That's not at all what I had in mind. I was hoping that the Custom Arena concept might benefit by encouraging feedback from the community of users. Under my proposal, that community feedback would be required to extend the life of a small number of arenas (I had suggested 3 of them). The idea was to count the community's activity as a kind of "vote", trusting that mechanism might create a competitive environment to cultivate better and better custom arenas.
However, HiTech has spoken. Under today's environment, a hoster can keep his arena alive by simply remaining connected. OK, that seems final enough. Full control goes to those dedicated enough to perpetuate their own arenas. Point taken. In a way, that's pretty much what Bustr proposed.
:salute
the purpose of the custom arena was for people to go there and duel with custom settings different than what was available in the ma. or perhaps to practice together defending/attacking or have some kind of weird setting to do some crazy stuff. it was never meant to be a continual battle like in the ma arenas. no win the flag, capture bases, etc. that is why when the last player leaves the arena disappears.
semp
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I'll bite...
How can you say the low numbers in EW, MW and Custom Arenas are detrimental to the LW arena? I think the HO's, Vulches, Ch200 crap, and overall poor sportsmanship and gameplay are more a detriment to LW than having other arena choices.
I personally prefer smaller more intimate engagements which, IMO, generate better fights than horde-on-horde HO at every merge that I see in LW...and I'm not afraid of 262s and Lalas. More choices is fine. If they aren't your thing, that's fine. If the LW arena isn't someone elses thing, that's fine - it doesn't mean they can't hack it in the LW arena, or they're afraid to fly there.
The LW arena, although most populated, isn't the end-all be-all of the Aces High experience, so please check your ego and attitude at the door.
I will give you one thing. There is no Channel 200. What kind of sportsmanship do you call it when 8 country members roll over 2 or 3. I don't know if country limits are imposesd the same as in late war, but I always go to the "overwhelmingly" undermanned side. Is that my "ego" or just my attitude that "prefers" to give the underdog a reasonable chance? If I ever said that someone couldn't hack it in the Late War arena, I must have been speaking out of anger. In this post, I brought up the absence of 262s and La7s, which is what I do like about an earlier war setup. However, I would much rather have the late war uber rides than the lopsided land grabbing and score padding that I have always observed in those arenas. I know and highly respect the players that fly there. I simply believe the arena concept has been twisted into a land grab with milk.
Yes, I'm bothered that this kind of game play gets mentioned on the front page and not the well organized and time consuming efforts of Events like FSO and the AvA arenas. Hell, even in KOTH no one is able to dogpile on another player until he is fighting for his final victory to win.
As for my original thought that was not expressed here but in another thread, the base capture system used in late war (with the intent to drive the air battle), totally fails in these arenas. They are simply duplicate arenas with softer settings of a sort. In a smaller more "intimate" setting I would think it would be easier to have even sided battles rather than milk. Now that we have custom arenas, it would be very easy to get a bunch of guys together and capture stuff undisturbed.
Until, the attitudes or habits of those that populate those arenas change, my attitude that they are a FAILED experiment will not change. The concept was great, but it never lived up to its potential (at least not while I was there).
Put Custom Arenas on the Main Menu and their popularity should grow. As for the OP, once the attention is raised that Custom Arenas are available alternatives, popular setups might actually become more evident. In the old H2H arenas FFA (free for all) arenas had a following. With the addition of tools we might discover other favorites, for instance icon range or visibility changes, ground war only, limited aircraft, etc.
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the purpose of the custom arena was for people to go there and duel with custom settings different than what was available in the ma. or perhaps to practice together defending/attacking or have some kind of weird setting to do some crazy stuff. it was never meant to be a continual battle like in the ma arenas. no win the flag, capture bases, etc. .
semp
Who said? :)
To me custom arenas are for players to make set ups or scenarios only limited by there imagination.
Not the one dimensional picture your painting.. :eek:
The possibility for growth is huge with the custom arenas if operators are given the tools to allow the arenas to seed and germinate.. Things like logging capability as we see in FSO events or longer up times.
The custom arenas allow for diversity and offer unlimited growth potential because of the limitless possibility of settings or scenarios the operators can choose to deliver.
That's the purpose in my view..
Players would have freedom of choice and more options to choose from with more available/visible custom arenas.
With custom or dedicated arenas allowed to run 24/7 as we see in many other flight sims such as IL2, rise of flight, A10 wart hog, Cliffs of Dover to mention only a few,the chances for folks to see and try the custom choices increases their chances for populating dramatically.
Keeping you computer connected to the arena is an option for sure.... But that means leaving the computer on all the time.
The optimum would be allowing a custom to stay alive far longer or 24/7 with out the operator having to worry about baby sitting his set up or over heating his system :)
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you ever think that the problem is not that the user arenas dont stay open 24/7?
semp
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you ever think that the problem is not that the user arenas dont stay open 24/7?
semp
At this point, when I click on custom arena to see what's going on.. it's empty, as in no arenas showing up.. what else should I think?
I do understand the other piece is that many are intimidated or don't understand how to set up the custom arenas.
That said, there are those who do know how to set up a custom arena. 24/7 arenas would help to inspire others to learn.." Hey I want to make an arena".
Look at it like this, If I could see and check out a custom arena, even if empty, I could pop in and "taste test" it to see whether I like the settings and wanted to return or call my buddy's into that custom server on radio channel then and there. That scenario alone increases the chances for a server to grow.
When I compare that to the 24/7 user arenas that show up on other sim hosting platforms, like IL2 in hyperlobby. Or Rise of Flight, Lock On, A10 Warthog, or Cliffs of Dover, all displayed on Steam's user arenas hosting platform, that are always available and highly populated, it's not to hard to come to the conclusion that persistent servers work better.
I play many other sims, and have spent years hosting popular 24/7 servers on hyperlobby where servers will always show 24/7 empty or not.
I know what it takes to seed them... up time, consistency of settings, balanced plane sets, scenarios/set-ups that are interesting and immersing enough to hold folks to the arena, a reward system that measures the player and squads accomplishments. Those basic rules connect a player to an arena and keeps them returning on a regular basis.
24/7 gives a server a far better chance to seed over time and get the ball rolling. It's just like advertising, repetition and constant exposure is the key, as long as the set up or product is interesting enough to get people to buy, or in this case, hold players to the arena.
Hitech's recommendation to keep your computer connected to the arena is the best way, at this point, albeit it tends to trap the host. Many guys like to jump around from server arena to arena, or sim to sim. If you are forced to stay connected you're trapped, unless you have a second computer to play in other arenas or other sims, while your user arena is up and running simultaneously.
:salute
RaVe
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I heard the same points you make from others who wanted to increase the player base in the ew, mw, ava etc but they always fail to understand why people like the lwa better. good luck you gonna need it.
semp
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Also we have finally got back to the 2nd stage of what the Custom arenas are for, and that is playing the missions produced by the mission editor with multiple people.
HiTech
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Also we have finally got back to the 2nd stage of what the Custom arenas are for, and that is playing the missions produced by the mission editor with multiple people.
HiTech
Wow! I had heard that was coming.... but does it work ALREADY?
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Also we have finally got back to the 2nd stage of what the Custom arenas are for, and that is playing the missions produced by the mission editor with multiple people.
HiTech
That's great this is were AI will come into play? If so the AI would take the place of live players if the 16 slots are not filled?
Basically making them "cooperative missions" ?
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:banana: :aok Does it mean AI :huh ....off to check if it is available yet :bolt:
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Wow! I had heard that was coming.... but does it work ALREADY?
No, it is what we are currently working on.
HiTech
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FANTASTIC HiTech!
....Can't wait!!!
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Also we have finally got back to the 2nd stage of what the Custom arenas are for, and that is playing the missions produced by the mission editor with multiple people.
HiTech
Excellent, I hope this makes it into the SEA and AVA.
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[Referring to flying user-written missions with artificially intelligent planes in the custom arenas, HiTech wrote]
"...it is what we are currently working on."
HiTech
....any news on this development work?
:salute
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....any news on this development work?
:salute
No
HiTech