Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tupac on February 20, 2012, 09:32:22 PM
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Had my first real emergency in a plane today. I was flying to Houston to meet a friend in a rented Cessna 210 when the cockpit started filling up with smoke. I opened up all the windows and vents to get the smoke out, and then I declared an emergency and went to San Marcos (the closest airport) I lined up to land with the runway and tried to bring the gear down, but the gear wouldn't come down. I started pumping on the hand pump to get the gear down (which I realized was hot) and managed to get the gear down and land safetly. All the firetrucks and stuff met me and I was happy to be on the ground, I didn't realize until all the adrenaline wore off that I burned my hand trying to get the gear down because the handle was so hot. Turns out a hydraulic line busted and there was hydraulic fluid all over the place (cause of the smoke and why I couldnt get the gear down)
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/399825_2720496692109_1247804014_32082460_163659111_n.jpg)
Lot's of excitement.
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All that wet stuff on the side is hydraulic fluid
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Wow Tup.. I'm glad you're okay. *shudders*
:O
Now I'm kind of freaked bro :salute
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Wow! Nothing like the possibility of bodily harm to get the blood flowing. Nice work on getting that bird back to the pavement. :cheers:
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Glad you made it down sir :salute
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Glad you made it safely!
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Well done. That sort of thing can get out of hand quickly even though it *should* be recoverable.
:aok
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WTG young Jedi warrior!
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Thanks for the kind words everyone.
Stayin' Alive!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_izvAbhExY&ob=av3e
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Really puts things into perspective when something like this happens, though. My hands are still shaking and my eyes still sting a little bit from the smoke. I had a few angels watching me tonight.
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Don't want to be a downer, but... Do you think the presence of a cockpit camera would have changed how everything went down? Would the minor distraction of the camera have affected your analysis or actions?
Obviously we'll never know, but... After going through that, what do you think about cockpit distractions? What if you had been listening to music over the intercom from an attached ipod? Any difference in the scenario there?
Just curious as to what you think about that, not trying to make judgements. I've made many flights listening to music over the intercom and I flew with a small camera in my pocket for several years, without either potential distraction being a factor in anything. Then again, the worst car wreck I've been in happened seconds after "back in black" came on the radio while my brother was driving, and he missed seeing a brand-new stopsign while jamming out to the tune and we ended up wrecking 2 rims, an axle, and 2 sets of bearings when we spun into a curb...
So, just curious as to if you have any new opinions on the subject :)
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I don't think it would have made a difference. I knew I needed to fly the plane, and the presence of a camera wouldnt have changed that. I was talking to Austin Approach getting flight following when I declared, but if I had been listening to music instead of talking I would have realized something was wrong just as quick I think.
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Glad your safe man! :aok
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Why was the gear handle hot enough to burn you?
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glad you made it down OK :salute
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Why was the gear handle hot enough to burn you?
No idea. We'll find out tomorrow though.
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Thank god you land safely, and way to go on keeping your cool. All them years of play AH must have paid off. :salute
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Inb4 golfer tells him that it was preventable and/or his fault.
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Hehehe, thats a story to tell the grand kids!
Glad your safe.
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Why would hydraulic fluid cause smoke?
Probably has something to do with the reason why the gear lever was hot. Did the problem originate with the hydraulic fluid or did something else break and cause the leak?
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Inb4 golfer tells him that it was preventable and/or his fault.
Oh yeah. :rofl
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Why would hydraulic fluid cause smoke?
Probably has something to do with the reason why the gear lever war hot. Did the problem originate with the hydraulic fluid or did something else break and cause the leak?
No idea. I'll be back out at the airport tomorrow with my mechanic helping find out/fix whatever the problem is.
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No idea. I'll be back out at the airport tomorrow with my mechanic helping find out/fix whatever the problem is.
Roger.
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Thank god you land safely, and way to go on keeping your cool. All them years of play AH must have paid off. :salute
I agree. You did a fantastic job of working a solution to the problem. I can't help but think the 1000's of hours of AH under your belt came into play when you had a real life emergency.
That and lots of adrenaline. :salute
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:)
hurrah! for a safe landing :)
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Well done Pac. Glad ya came out ok. You have your first official emergency in the books. As they say... Experience is the best teacher.
:aok
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I found me on liveatc....a friend is going to splice the feeds together so I have a record of this for posterity.
Well done Pac. Glad ya came out ok. You have your first official emergency in the books. As they say... Experience is the best teacher.
:aok
I took a handful out of my luck bag and put it in my experience bag tonight, that is for sure.
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I found me on liveatc....a friend is going to splice the feeds together so I have a record of this for posterity.
Send me a copy. :)
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WTG keeping a cool head! :aok
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All that wet stuff on the side is hydraulic fluid
Would have been a lot more wet stuff than that if it were me. Solid work, glad you're safe.
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http://www.w0cra.org/downloads/Nate-Temporary/DavidWhite_C210_Smoke_Condensed_From_LiveATC.mp3
my friend put this together for me
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Here's the real time version
http://www.w0cra.org/downloads/Nate-Temporary/DavidWhite_C210_SmokeInCockpit_KAUS_LiveATC_Feeds.mp3
00:00 starts my checkin with KAUS Approach
03:15 after vectors to San Marcos, requesting lights
04:40 phone number offer/refusal
05:40 request CTAF frequency
09:35 just the callsign?
29:45 Approach talking about me to another aircraft because San Marcos is closed then says I'm okay and airport is open.
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I'm trying to visualize where it happened and where you went. Can you give me the airport code where you landed, your intended flight path, and where you started getting the smoke?
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Good job. There's nothing else to say about a positive outcome right after the fact.
Now that it's over see what caused the fluid to get so hot. The electric pump system isn't the best in the Cessna singles which isn't the best system or really even a good system. I've heard of a pump staying on and because of the training done in the case of the Cutlass I mentioned earlier the circuit breaker being pulled/reset all the time for training didn't work as advertised. The pump overheated and supposedly the CB fused so it couldn't be popped to shut the pump off.
Hopping into all these different types of airplanes can present some hazards as well and while the 210 isn't a hugely complex machine it's certainly different from a 172 especially with the Turbo and Pressurized variants. You really do owe it to yourself a very thorough checkout which gets you a good depth of system knowledge beyond simply how to work the various systems. How to work them when they're not working as advertised is equally if not more critical.
It's been too long since I flew a Cessna single RG to really know these things but I have an idea why the pump handle may have been warm though I wouldn't think it so hot to actually burn your hand.
Inb4 golfer tells him that it was preventable and/or his fault.
Tupac has done some things that raised flags and brows and I've said as much. Mostly because he's doing things that echo mistakes I've made that resulted in stupid pilot moments or gotten airplanes/people hurt. A serious event that gets the blood flowing is a good thing but you need to temper your swell of confidence so you don't find yourself in over your head on the next abnormality. He might be a natural stick that can handle the things he's experienced with relative ease making everything else appear to have that same relative ease or build a certain level of complacency. He demonstrated that on his first solo, during his further training and has done so numerous times. I speak up because I have a genuine concern as I've been in his shoes of teenage hotshot pilot and can look back at the idiocy I survived at no help of my own.
I'd like to see him succeed and more importantly I'd like to not have those concerns in the back of my mind that one day I won't have anymore. That's not today however so until then the little hairs on the back of my neck keep talking and I'll keep listening.
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Inb4 golfer tells him that it was preventable and/or his fault.
golfer's not like that. i met the guy in person. he's a good man.....and if i were to get back into the air, i would jump in an airplane with him in a second.
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I found me on liveatc....a friend is going to splice the feeds together so I have a record of this for posterity.
I took a handful out of my luck bag and put it in my experience bag tonight, that is for sure.
it wasn't luck. it was good training, and good studenting(is that even a word?), and you keeping your cool in what could've turned real bad real fast. awesome job. :aok
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Nice work Tupac.. Glad you made it down ok :cheers:
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Good job on handling it and getting it on the ground especially without bending the bird. My guess on the smoke may be that it wasn't really smoke but hydraulic fluid that has been mixed in air as a fine mist due to the pump running it trough the leak. Depending on the fluid that can be a mite explosive or flammable too.
Given a hydraulic leak I am a bit surprised that there was enough to pump the gear down. I like having a mechanical backup but that means 2 kinds of systems then.
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Thanks for the kind words. My hand still hurts today and I have blisters on my thumb, middle finger, and ring finger from the heat. I was wearing a long sleeve shirt so I pulled my hand back inside it and tried to use it as a buffer to mitigate some of the heat.
Maverick - that's what my mechanic thinks too. We are going to go out and look at the plane today and figure out what happened.
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WTG Tupac!
All them years of play AH must have paid off. :salute
If that was the case he would have shift-x descended and belly flopped.
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Thanks for the kind words. My hand still hurts today and I have blisters on my thumb, middle finger, and ring finger from the heat. I was wearing a long sleeve shirt so I pulled my hand back inside it and tried to use it as a buffer to mitigate some of the heat.
Maverick - that's what my mechanic thinks too. We are going to go out and look at the plane today and figure out what happened.
wait? you've got,,,,,,,,blisters on your fingers??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfkVGCU_BA
:devil
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Awesome job Tupac!
I think you're a cool dude, and enjoy talking to you on the FW TS server. Happy you made it down in one piece :cheers:
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Well Done Tupac - glad all turned out ok... :salute
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http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstories/fireinthecockpit/fireinthecockpit.cfm
Another incidence of a hydraulic issue on a cessna retract
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Radio sounds like you kept a cool head. Nice job man. :salute
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glad that wet stuff on the outside was hydraulic fluid i can almost certainly guarantee if that had been me it would not have been hydraulic fluid and epa would have been notified of a toxic waste spill upon landing....great job tupac.
EZRhino
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Are those firemen brothers?
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Well done, Tupac! :aok
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Why would hydraulic fluid cause smoke?
Probably has something to do with the reason why the gear lever was hot. Did the problem originate with the hydraulic fluid or did something else break and cause the leak?
From the photo it looked like the leak was in the engine compartment...ANY oil hits hot engine parts you will have smoke.
Tupac, did it actually burn your skin? or was it just uncomfortably hot? Did you have the heat on? (wondering if the hot air was blowing on the handle warming it up)
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From the photo it looked like the leak was in the engine compartment...ANY oil hits hot engine parts you will have smoke.
Tupac, did it actually burn your skin? or was it just uncomfortably hot? Did you have the heat on? (wondering if the hot air was blowing on the handle warming it up)
I have blisters on my ring finger, middle finger, and thumb from the heat. It was hot enough that the firefighters thought there had been a fire behind there.
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Thanks for the kind words everyone.
Stayin' Alive!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_izvAbhExY&ob=av3e
Good job. Otherwise it could be......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGLZqDXau98 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGLZqDXau98)
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way to go man, stayin alive!
:cheers:
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I think had it not been for the adrenaline I wouldnt have been able to get the gear down. I didn't realize the handle was so hot until I had been on the ground for about 15 minutes and my hand started to hurt really bad.
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http://www.w0cra.org/downloads/Nate-Temporary/DavidWhite_C210_Smoke_Condensed_From_LiveATC.mp3
my friend put this together for me
Ya ever notice how that controllers voice is the voice of controllers all over the country?
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Ya ever notice how that controllers voice is the voice of controllers all over the country?
You ain't kidding. They do all sound quite similar, I can tell who it is at SAT by their voices but thats about it.
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I think had it not been for the adrenaline I wouldnt have been able to get the gear down. I didn't realize the handle was so hot until I had been on the ground for about 15 minutes and my hand started to hurt really bad.
Isn't the electric hydraulic pump aft of the baggage compartment co-located with the hydraulic reservoir? If so the pump running continuous and getting hot wouldn't heat up the manual pump handle.
I'm going to guess the next time you pre-flight the airplane you take a real close look at the hydraulic lines and fittings. <G>
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Isn't the electric hydraulic pump aft of the baggage compartment co-located with the hydraulic reservoir? If so the pump running continuous and getting hot wouldn't heat up the manual pump handle.
I'm going to guess the next time you pre-flight the airplane you take a real close look at the hydraulic lines and fittings. <G>
The hydraulic reservoir is forward of the firewall IIRC
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the mechanics didnt have time to go to San Marcos today and will head out tomorrow to get it figured out.
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The hydraulic reservoir is forward of the firewall IIRC
Ok. I haven't flown a 210. The Cardinal and Cutlass have the reservoir aft.
Let us know what you find out.
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Ok. I haven't flown a 210. The Cardinal and Cutlass have the reservoir aft.
Let us know what you find out.
Will do.
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Some of the blistering may be a skin reaction to the fluid, like a chemical burn. I'm not saying it wasn't hot enough to burn you, but the hyd fluid itself may have also contributed a chemical burn to your skin which will make any thermal burn worse.
I got some hyd fluid on my finger before a T-37 sortie a few years back, and by the time we landed 1.3 hrs later I had a nice red blister on my finger. The skin is still just a bit thicker/rougher in that one spot, and that was just one or two drops of whatever hydraulic fluid (redish stuff) was used in the T-37 brake system soaking through my nomex glove and being held against my finger for under an hour and a half.
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May have been, but I had hydraulic fluid on my pants, shoes, and shirt and my hand is the only place I'm burned. My shoes I was wearing were black but when I took my white socks off they were red with fluid. My pants smell like it and so does my shirt, that stuff is nasty.
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Toss out the contaminated clothes... Not worth risking ingestion just to save a set of clothes.
For fun, see if they catch fire or burn better or worse than you would otherwise expect :)
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Some of the blistering may be a skin reaction to the fluid, like a chemical burn. I'm not saying it wasn't hot enough to burn you, but the hyd fluid itself may have also contributed a chemical burn to your skin which will make any thermal burn worse.
I don't think 5606 (which I assume is what a 210 uses) would cause a chemical burn, and definitely not in that short of a time. It's pretty benign, I've had the stuff all over both arms for an hour and never had any ill effects.
Skydrol on the other hand can be very nasty, on hot days when your pores open up it will seep in an burn, forget to wash it off your hands before peeing and you'll know a special kind of pain :mad: get it in your eyes and you have to flush it out with castor oil. I've been told that SOP at the airlines now is if Skydrol gets into a cut or under your skin/bloodstream at all, it's an automatic emergency room visit.
Anyway, well done Tupac, glad you're safe. :aok
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Here's the real time version
http://www.w0cra.org/downloads/Nate-Temporary/DavidWhite_C210_SmokeInCockpit_KAUS_LiveATC_Feeds.mp3
00:00 starts my checkin with KAUS Approach
03:15 after vectors to San Marcos, requesting lights
04:40 phone number offer/refusal
05:40 request CTAF frequency
09:35 just the callsign?
29:45 Approach talking about me to another aircraft because San Marcos is closed then says I'm okay and airport is open.
(http://i.qkme.me/353xnp.jpg)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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(http://i.qkme.me/353xnp.jpg)
:rofl :aok
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Perhaps, and this is just me, Tup was pumping the heck out of that handle and the friction built up. I know I would have been. Of course that's just me ol Dicho soft hands and all :)
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Perhaps, and this is just me, Tup was pumping the heck out of that handle and the friction built up. I know I would have been. Of course that's just me ol Dicho soft hands and all :)
I think I figured out what happened he was pumping the old "handle" got some blisters and had to create a cover story. He made up the part where the gear handle heated up (as it makes no logical sense) and somehow broke the hydraulics. My theory is he used his shoe laces as a harness of sorts and jumped out of the 210s door. He moved his way to the engine and broke open the access door. Then used his iPhone to beat the hydraulic line into submission.
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/57/5788/REBOG00Z/posters/hardy-boys-the-great-airport-mystery.jpg)
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Oh good, autorefresh is turned on. :bhead
I had a reasonably coherent reply typed out regarding that while I have a theory I'm not convinced the hydraulic fluid would ever get hot enough to transfer enough heat through the manual extension handle to get it up to a temperature that would cause burns like you described. That and the Cessna RG system on their singles sucks
A leak at the power pack which I believe is mounted inside the cabin between the two sets of rudder pedals provided it's an electro-hydraulic airplane wouldn't necessarily have any hydraulic fluid getting ahead of the firewall but a leak at the nose gear actuator or associated lines/fittings certainly could. A GoPro shot of the ammeter during your flight and hearing the hydraulic pump kick on as it constantly tried to rebuild the required pressure to hold the gear up would be telling. The gear on the 210 like other Cessna RG singles (the system sucks) is held up by hydraulic pressure alone rather than mechanical uplocks. If a leak were to develop in the system resulting in a decrease in pressure the pump would kick on to recharge the system to whatever PSI is required to hold it up (750? It's been a long long long long long time) which is normal enough as the pressure bled down over time. The pump kicking on isn't anything that would cause alarm but should a leak develop or the pressure switch fail (this would confuse the pump into thinking the system either is fully charged all the time or always low) you could have the power pack running much more frequently than usual. There's no question it gets hot if you do this and can have the CB pop if you're doing repeated cycles of the landing gear on a hot day such as touch and go training as it's happened. Would it get so hot it burns your hand? Don't know, never tried it. At any rate, if a leak were to develop which resulted in the pressure being low enough to warrant the hydraulic pump to run continuously consequently heating the remaining fluid up to whatever temperature is required to transfer enough heat through the manual extension handle to burn your hand you're actually lucky to get the gear down at all. If the airplane was successful in pissing away all the hydraulic fluid you'd have been left with no means of extending the landing gear because the fluid you have in the system is all you've got to work with. Gravity or free fall doesn't work, the theory of using a tow bar to grab the legs doesn't work if you're solo and frankly the risk far and away outweighs the minimal hazards of a belly landing. Especially if you only were to get one leg to extend.
Not being there to smell the smoke doesn't help but it's intriguing the normal extension didn't work but the manual hand pump did over a hydraulic problem. They both do the same thing and unless the smoke was from the power pack motor burning up as a result of the separate hydraulic leak causing it to run/overheat/let out the magic smoke I can't figure off the top of my head what causes that same combination of failures and allowed the smoke to stop generating. At least not at 2am.
How frequently was the power pack charging the hydraulic pressure? Was the power packs CB popped? Was the smoke smell electric or was it the smell of hydraulic oil?
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The smell of smoke was the smell of hydraulic oil, not electrics. I should know more tomorrow and I'll let y'all know what we find. I agree, the Cessna retract system is really complicated (Im not a fan, atleast not anymore)I like the Piper design where if you lose hydraulic pressure the gear just drops.
The emergency section of the 210 POH has this to say about emergency extension of gear with fluid loss.
"The system reservoir is arranged to retain sufficient fluid to extend the gear with a hand pump if a failure between the engine driven hydraulic pump and the reservoir results in fluid loss."
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The emergency section of the 210 POH has this to say about emergency extension of gear with fluid loss.
"The system reservoir is arranged to retain sufficient fluid to extend the gear with a hand pump if a failure between the engine driven hydraulic pump and the reservoir results in fluid loss."
The pickup tube for the powered pump is higher than the pickup for the manual pump...insures a reserve. However if you break something downstream you'll just piss it overboard regardless which pump you use.
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So is your airplanes hydraulic system engine driven or electrically driven? I'm basing my assumptions on electro-hydraulic but that excerpt seems to say otherwise.
Flying an old bird.
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So is your airplanes hydraulic system engine driven or electrically driven? I'm basing my assumptions on electro-hydraulic but that excerpt seems to say otherwise.
Flying an old bird.
I actually have most of the single engine Cessna AMMs and IPCs on a flash drive. I though about looking up the hydraulic and landing gear system on a 210, just have to know the year/serial #. But I decided to be lazy instead. :aok
I'm sure Tupac and his mechanic will figure it out. :salute
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210s come either/or depending on their year as you know. I don't remember the cutoff but I think it's 70-something where the switchover from engine driven to electric power pack occurred. Based on the snippet from the POH he posted it seems like an older airplane with an engine driven pump. I don't believe I ever flew one of those but it makes more sense for a fluid leak forward of the firewall.
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Funny enough, my only hydraulic failure in the T-37 was a slow leak in the nosegear lines. It slowly bled out over an hour or so and when I tried to use the speedbrake during my enroute descent, the hyd pressure gage abruptly went to zero. I had to do an emergency gear extension that time. After landing we could see a very fine sheen of hyd fluid over most of the aircraft from the nosewheel bay, but we didn't notice it inflight and it didn't hit anything hot so it didn't smoke for us. And we were wearing oxygen masks the whole flight so we didn't smell it either.
If you don't like the 210 hydraulics, don't bother trying to figure out anything larger :) The F-15E has 3 pumps that back each other up, with (if I recall correctly) 5 separate but redundant hydraulic systems. One utility pump and 2 "PC" pumps. Each engine drove a PC pump and the utility pump was driven from a central accessory drive unit. Any one of the 3 pumps could provide enough pressure to fly the plane but you'd start losing stuff if you lost 2 pumps and had certain leaks. Like only one aileron might work or you might have to use the alternate landing gear extension and emergency brakes with no nosewheel steering, that sort of thing. The system could survive multiple leaks due to having a complicated system of backups, bypass valves, dual-input hydraulic actuators, and pressure fuses. Very complicated but the plane could absorb a lot of damage and keep flying.
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The fluid will be at engine compartment temperature.
I had a friend borrow my lawnmower and he brought it back 2 hours later with multiple blisters on his hands.
He's never performed manual labor.
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Way to stay frosty in a hot situation.
What doesn't kill you will only make you smarter and harder to kill the next time.
:salute,
Wab
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If it had been an Aces High landing he would have bellied in and re-upped a typh to make up lost time. Glad you made down ok~ careful taking that crate back up.
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Good job Tupac. Next time tighten your harness, bail out and as your floating down call the rental company and tell them they can pick up there AC at I35 and Hwy 123.
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Nice job, David :aok
Not panicking is always an important part of the process.
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May have been, but I had hydraulic fluid on my pants, shoes, and shirt and my hand is the only place I'm burned. My shoes I was wearing were black but when I took my white socks off they were red with fluid. My pants smell like it and so does my shirt, that stuff is nasty.
Don't own a mustang (the P-51 variety) then, the things (flying condition that I've seen) piss the stuff all over their territory as much as oil.
The fluid will be at engine compartment temperature.
I had a friend borrow my lawnmower and he brought it back 2 hours later with multiple blisters on his hands.
He's never performed manual labor.
Well, now, let's give Tupac the benefit of the doubt that he's at least once spent an entire day in his his vast life digging a ditch with nothing but a shovel before commenting about him having such purty soft hands. :ahand (In seriousness, I doubt you'll ever recall how really fast/hard you were pumping that lever, but in the same situation and at 2am I'd probably do it with enough gusto to develop a few blisters myself.)
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Here is the cause of this
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394046_2732404309792_1247804014_32086320_566602791_n.jpg)
A broken O-ring on the entry port hydraulic screen. The hydraulic power pack kept trying to pump to bring the hydraulic system back up to acceptable levels, and got really hot. Therefore the cause of the heat, we still arent sure how the smoke got into the cockpit. There was hydraulic fluid all over the windshield and sides of the plane, it was worse than I thought it was Monday.
I'm now a minor celebrity at redbird skyport, though.
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It's amazing how critical an O-ring can be. That's what caused the crash of the Challenger.
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I'm not subscribed to the heat being transferred through the manual extension handle much less enough to burn your hand. Friction from pumping like a teenager unlucky at the prom, yes. Hot cherry juice, nah.
At any rate:
1.) Good job
2.) You're a lucky duck for even being able to get the gear down at all with a significant hydraulic leak
The smoke is most likely from fluid cooking off the hot exhaust.
Flight Express is a freight outfit that operates a number of variants of 210s. Austin Collins was the director of training there for a long time and may still be. At any rate he and FEX produced some excellent training materials on the 210 which would be very beneficial for you to learn inside and out. This incident should show you the gaps in your systems knowledge with the 210 that need filled and while not overly complex it's the most complex thing you're currently flying.
I'd view this experience as a positive and a confidence booster that you handled a relatively minor and potentially major abnormality relatively well. I'd also encourage you temper that swelling confidence you're going to be feeling by debriefing yourself on what you didn't do as well as you could and what you can learn from this incident moving forward. What would you do in the future when the same thing happens again? What would you do different, what you'd do the same or what order you'd do them?
Write it out, talk about it with the instructor who gave you your checkout. Talk about it to others more experienced with the 210 and others in general. If you're planning on being an instructor in the somewhat near future then use yourself as your first student. Practice teaching these things to yourself and use your mistakes as items in your bag of tricks for both yourself and future students.
One of my favorite interview questions that tested systems knowledge that still pops up in recurrent events today is what are all the ways you can verify your landing gear is down. In most airplanes there can be anywhere from 3-6 ways to check separately your gear is down. Use that as a means to an end, the end being a thorough systems knowledge of the airplane you're flying. This is especially important when flying multiple types of airplanes of varying complexity.
Jeff Ethell killed himself maneuvering with an engine failed due to fuel starvation in an airplane that had fuel in it. A legal and competent pilot on paper not familiar with the systems idiosyncrasies of that specific airframe died because of something so tragically and simply avoidable.
Take this incident and use it as a learning experience about the seriousness of having a thorough checkout and knowledge of each aircraft you're flying.
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Golfer, I'm not going to argue with you about the heat of the center console, but I will say it was hot enough that the FD had thought there was a fire behind it. The mechanic even said it came from the hydraulic power pack.
There aren't many things I would do differently if I had to do it again, I had a couple instructors and the mechanic tell me that they wouldn't have faulted me had I geared it up, although if I had I would have felt very silly that it was just an O-ring (and then I would have an NTSB report with my name on it)
I didn't end up on the news, and I didn't bend any metal. That's about the best outcome one could hope for, I think.
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I'm not arguing. I'm not even saying you didn't do a great job. You did. You were successful and the airplane is going to fly again with minimal effort. BZ.
What I am doing isn't even critiquing, more specifically suggesting that you critique yourself. I wasn't there, I'm not your instructor and I've not flown a 210 with the engine driven hydraulics so I'm not even a good option to offer an insightful critique.
If you think you did great and would do everything the same way that's your prerogative. I can tell you that rarely does an abnormality happen where you'd do everything exactly the same if it happened again. That's the whole point of training and learning. Take note of what you did right and what you could have done differently is all I'm saying. No need to be defensive since I'm not being the least bit offensive. Quite the contrary in fact.
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Ok sorry, I misconstrued your post. It's easy to take things the wrong way on the internet when you can't tell someones tone of voice, etc.
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Think of Golf's reply as a "good job, here's how to do better for the next time". :aok
I still think you got them blisters from pumping the lever too hard. I'd imagine the pump/power-pack is toast too after cooking up to such temperatures (or iminutely about to be). Pics of the fried motor or hand, or it never happened. :noid :devil
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(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/dcwdavid/9ed4d346.jpg?t=1330021489)
(http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz138/dcwdavid/f1cb383c.jpg?t=1330021493)
The one on my ring finger isnt that visible and the camera isnt that good, you cant really see it.
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edit.
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As you can see the burns are on the side of my fingers where I wasnt covered by the shirt.
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At first I said that I wouldn't wish this on anyone, now I kinda wish some of yall would have had to pump that gear down. The second-guessing is seriously getting under my skin.
Hitch up your big boy britches. I know what the attachment looks like on an electric power pack. What's the engine driven one look like? How's the handle connect to the manual transfer pump on your airplane? My Google-fu is weak and haven't found a proper photo. I assume you've taken some.
You've not said definitively you're flying an engine driven or electric hydraulic system. Which is it on this airplane?
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It's an engine driven hydraulic pump.
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I didn't take any pictures, I meant to yesterday but I forgot.
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Congrats on getting it down safely!
But what did you need a 210 for lol?
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But what did you need a 210 for lol?
My plane was in the shop and I wanted to go to Houston to see my friend (Who was passing through Houston with another friend while getting his Multiengine addon)
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My plane was in the shop and I wanted to go to Houston to see my friend (Who was passing through Houston with another friend while getting his Multiengine addon)
Good enough for me lol
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It's an engine driven hydraulic pump.
The photo focus sucks, but they do seem like *cough* very minor *cough* heat burns... which is really scary, I was hoping it was pilot overeagerness and not a potentially combustable situation onboard your aircraft.
OK, now THAT could generate enough heat through the hydraulic system to burn you while also not burning it (the pump or pressure-generating device) completely out.
See, and here most us thought you were just spending too many evenings at home, alone with too much time to spend infront of your computer, and then got stuck flying a later-model 210 with an auxiliary/independent electric hydraulic pump (power pack). :aok
What's the production year/serial number on that specific 210, if you may happen to know, out of curiosity?
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They look alot better, I got an ice pack on them pretty much as soon as I got out of the airplane, that kept them from looking too bad.
It's a 1967 210H SN 21058948
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Here's a picture of it when it's clean (it cleans up real nice)
(http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/small/225/225825.jpg)
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The photo focus sucks, but they do seem like *cough* very minor *cough* heat burns... which is really scary, I was hoping it was pilot overeagerness and not a potentially combustable situation onboard your aircraft.
OK, now THAT could generate enough heat through the hydraulic system to burn you while also not burning it (the pump or pressure-generating device) completely out.
See, and here most us thought you were just spending too many evenings at home, alone with too much time to spend infront of your computer, and then got stuck flying a later-model 210 with an auxiliary/independent electric hydraulic pump (power pack). :aok
What's the production year/serial number on that specific 210, if you may happen to know, out of curiosity?
There was smoke, too, which means that there was a combustible situation hot center console or not.
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Not necessarily. A little oil leaking out of the right seal can do wonders when mixed with hot bleed air and aside from the fumes not be a real fire hazard.
Wait till you fill the cabin with flies or worse yet, wasps. I opened the cabin heat ducts one cold morning doing traffic reports when the primary airplane got back from an engine overhaul. It's like a hundred dormant flies came to life and the only solution was to open the windows and shovel them out with a chart. Wasps were worse.
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Wait till you fill the cabin with flies or worse yet, wasps. I opened the cabin heat ducts one cold morning doing traffic reports when the primary airplane got back from an engine overhaul. It's like a hundred dormant flies came to life and the only solution was to open the windows and shovel them out with a chart. Wasps were worse.
Did the wasps build a nest inside the plane?
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Ram air vents. If they were a problem in the rental fleet hangar we taped them up when not in use so not much of a nest could be built. I was doing training in someone's personal airplane in this instance.
It's not uncommon for critters to next there. I started doing more thorough checks for nests around the engine when one airplane taxied in smoking under the cowling.
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All that wet stuff on the side is hydraulic fluid
I thought it was from your bladder :D
Glad it went well :aok
:cheers: Oz
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Well done. :aok