Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: USBP1969 on February 26, 2012, 08:42:06 AM

Title: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: USBP1969 on February 26, 2012, 08:42:06 AM
When Warbirds came up with the ".dfuse" command a lot of things changed.  Attack fighters could set the fuses before takeoff for 5,10,15, or 20 second delays.  They would then make a low, very high speed pass and drop. (That's a whole new skill set) Then "x" number secomnds later, ""BOOM!"

I hate to use this word again due to being pounced upon by some folks, but delayed fuses were "real" in WW-II.  I remember one "History Channel" presentation that duplicated a B-24 run where delayed fuse bombs were dropped at very low level.  Some of them were set for as much as 24 hours!  BIG surprise!

I first noticed the .dfuse addition when following a 190D at low level.  I was about 1,000 yards in trail at tree top height and saw a puff of dust below the 190.  I figured he has just jetesoned his bomb load, but seconds later my fighter blew up!(?)  After that, any dust puffs under a fighter at low level meant an immediate pullup.

It's real, it's was fun, and in fact, it's was real fun.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Karnak on February 26, 2012, 10:19:09 AM
Delayed fuses were common on the anti-Gestapo raids done at extremely low levels by Mosquito fighter-bombers.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: B-17 on February 26, 2012, 11:09:03 AM
I'd like to see them in AH, but think about the GVs. Small puff of dirt beside you? .ef

:( it's what would happen.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: icepac on February 26, 2012, 11:25:21 AM
I'm still tired of watching jabos in warbirds drag belly across the ground to drop bombs like a dragonfly sipping water from a pond because they lack the skill to properly use jabo.

Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: FLOTSOM on February 26, 2012, 12:31:33 PM
I'm still tired of watching jabos in warbirds drag belly across the ground to drop bombs like a dragonfly sipping water from a pond because they lack the skill to properly use jabo.



and our current lanc-stuka's are any better?
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: AHTbolt on February 26, 2012, 01:00:32 PM
I will have to try and find the picture of B-25s at low level dropping delayed action bombs, in the picture the bombs have no fins attached and are bouncing at odd angles.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Butcher on February 26, 2012, 01:14:46 PM
I will have to try and find the picture of B-25s at low level dropping delayed action bombs, in the picture the bombs have no fins attached and are bouncing at odd angles.

I know para-frag bombs were very commonly dropped by B-25s over enemy airfields in the Pacific, the idea is they could drop quite a few small bombs in which would be used to damage/destroy aircraft.

The Japanese had a very huge problem with logistics when it comes to repairing aircraft, for example if 1 fighter was missing an engine, and they had 5 destroyed aircraft with working engines they were not allowed
to simply "Swap out" the engines, and fix up the plane without an engine.

This is what made the para-frag bombs so extremely valuable over the Pacific, I believe Wewak was one of the first airfields hit, I remember some 15x Ki-43s were disabled by one flight of B-25s on a low level pass.

Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Brownien on February 26, 2012, 02:51:29 PM
+1      :aok
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: smoe on February 26, 2012, 03:12:05 PM
I would say (and from what I've seen on tv) delayed bombs were used mainly to protect the low flying planes from blowing themselves up.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: icepac on February 26, 2012, 05:05:24 PM
and our current lanc-stuka's are any better?

Huge difference.


DFuse will be abused by having planes drop bombs with the belly 4 inches above the ground.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Karnak on February 26, 2012, 05:32:58 PM
Huge difference.


DFuse will be abused by having planes drop bombs with the belly 4 inches above the ground.
Easy to fix.  Still require the bombs to travel through a certain distance of air.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: FLOTSOM on February 26, 2012, 05:37:15 PM
Huge difference.


DFuse will be abused by having planes drop bombs with the belly 4 inches above the ground.

and they would become even easier targets for the anti-aircraft tankers. besides having a delay works both ways, you drop to far or set the fuse to long your target drives away before it detonates, you belly in for the drop and you are now at risk of hitting ground debris and the earth in the MA's has perfect ACM, and i am certain that the bounce would be modeled in...hell if i pop a tater into an enemy fighter and i am too close i get hit by the back blast....so if the plane is too low when it drops the bomb the bouncing baby will hit the plane that dropped it.

besides, if you really think on it, having to set your fuses at take off helps remove some of the gamey characteristics of the bombs. additionally until we have some kind of real infantry or similar targets added to the game delay blast bombs will have very little use. they will be a novelty at best...
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Wiley on February 26, 2012, 05:49:35 PM
and they would become even easier targets for the anti-aircraft tankers. besides having a delay works both ways, you drop to far or set the fuse to long your target drives away before it detonates, you belly in for the drop and you are now at risk of hitting ground debris and the earth in the MA's has perfect ACM, and i am certain that the bounce would be modeled in...hell if i pop a tater into an enemy fighter and i am too close i get hit by the back blast....so if the plane is too low when it drops the bomb the bouncing baby will hit the plane that dropped it.

besides, if you really think on it, having to set your fuses at take off helps remove some of the gamey characteristics of the bombs. additionally until we have some kind of real infantry or similar targets added to the game delay blast bombs will have very little use. they will be a novelty at best...

When I came over from the othe sim 2 years ago, I believe I can say without hyperbole that over half of jabo was done using dfuse.  If the bounce was modeled, I agree it would be a novelty because it would be unreliable.  Now if you could bounce it into a building and it would stop fairly reliably, that might change things a bit.

I personally didn't care for it too much because in the other game it seemed to lead to way more NOE bombing.  However, object hardness over there was significantly different than here.  I don't think it would have that much of an impact on things here.  I personally really like the idea of skip bombing ships, and think it would add to the game, but that's just me.

Wiley.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: B-17 on February 26, 2012, 06:35:05 PM
Well, I still think it's not gonna matter for GVs.

As soon as the bomb hits the ground, the GV will simpley /.ef
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: MAINER on February 26, 2012, 06:52:38 PM
+1
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: DMVIAGRA on February 26, 2012, 07:33:42 PM
Well I want BALOON WARS!!!   :banana:

But I can't have it...
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: MK-84 on February 26, 2012, 07:54:21 PM
I am very concerned about how this would be "gamed"  I believe that delay fuses were used to either deny an enemy access to the target area, and so that a second wave attack could be made. (or I'm totally wrong)

I remember a neat trick in AW3 was that if you were being chased to the deck by an enemy you could drop your bomb and it could be timed just right as to destroy the person chasing you.

Now adding timed fuses is silly, either you could do exactly what I just described but easier, or you could drop at spawns, and get "free" kills, or you could carpet an area again for "free kills"

In our game there is no point in delaying when a target is destroyed, it is always better to destroy it at once.  Adding a delay fuse would ONLY be used in ways to "game the game"  which removes the whole point of adding them.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: phatzo on February 26, 2012, 10:36:48 PM

I remember a neat trick in AW3 was that if you were being chased to the deck by an enemy you could drop your bomb and it could be timed just right as to destroy the person chasing you.

exactly what happens in warbirds too.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Karnak on February 27, 2012, 12:40:28 AM
The delay would need to be set on the runway before turning the engines on or even in the hangar.  The maximum delay would need to be relatively short too, no more than 15-30 seconds.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: phatzo on February 27, 2012, 12:44:25 AM
The delay would need to be set on the runway before turning the engines on or even in the hangar.  The maximum delay would need to be relatively short too, no more than 15-30 seconds.
1 second is about all you need to blow up the guy chasing you on the deck.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Ruah on February 27, 2012, 07:22:37 AM
would be great

+1
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Karnak on February 27, 2012, 09:44:30 AM
1 second is about all you need to blow up the guy chasing you on the deck.
Yes, but if you can only set it in the hangar you can't customize it at the time.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: MAINER on February 27, 2012, 09:46:06 AM
Yes, but if you can only set it in the hangar you can't customize it at the time.

That sounds like a good idea. In real life I dont think you could have set it in flight either.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Wiley on February 27, 2012, 10:25:16 AM
Yes, but if you can only set it in the hangar you can't customize it at the time.

About 2 seconds will cover most fragging situations.  I saw it used to great effect by some on the unwary.

I don't know.  On the one hand it was used IRL.  On the other, in WBs it meant a lot of people stopped divebombing and just dropped their bombs from treetop height.  Very accurate, no effort.

Now, in WBs, it was like the bombs had glue on them.  They hit, and stopped immediately.  No bounce at all.

IMO it is EZMode for divebombing and adds the possibility for fragging pursuing planes.  Whether that's a good thing is up to the individual I guess.  I didn't miss it at all when I got here.

Wiley.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Arlo on February 27, 2012, 10:40:19 AM
If the setting could be set for minutes (up to an hour) then one player could fly 2 or 3 passes on a target and set the bombs to go off as simultaneous. ShruG
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Karnak on February 27, 2012, 11:07:44 AM
About 2 seconds will cover most fragging situations.  I saw it used to great effect by some on the unwary.

I don't know.  On the one hand it was used IRL.  On the other, in WBs it meant a lot of people stopped divebombing and just dropped their bombs from treetop height.  Very accurate, no effort.

Now, in WBs, it was like the bombs had glue on them.  They hit, and stopped immediately.  No bounce at all.

IMO it is EZMode for divebombing and adds the possibility for fragging pursuing planes.  Whether that's a good thing is up to the individual I guess.  I didn't miss it at all when I got here.

Wiley.
The bombs should still need to travel through ~1000ft of air before arming.  That should fix the treetop altitude drops unless going very fast.

As to using them to frag aircraft behind you, that seems kinda like crippling your aircraft's air-to-air capability to have a small defensive chance when running, slower than if you hadn't taken the bombs, on the deck.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Wiley on February 27, 2012, 11:24:44 AM
The bombs should still need to travel through ~1000ft of air before arming.  That should fix the treetop altitude drops unless going very fast.

Yeah.  It would.  From my perspective, that was the only reason to dfuse.  Making the requirements the same IMO would leave Dfusing at the point of 'why bother?'  Literally the only difference would be that the bomb blows up later than it does now.  Actually now that I think about it, in WB the bomb blast radius more or less forced you to drop above 1000' AGL.  Here, the bomb just needs to travel 1000'.  Really the net effect is the same, and is probably why the 1000' rule was implemented.  I don't tend to drop very low, but I can't recall ever fragging myself here.

Quote
As to using them to frag aircraft behind you, that seems kinda like crippling your aircraft's air-to-air capability to have a small defensive chance when running, slower than if you hadn't taken the bombs, on the deck.

Oh, people who were intent on dogfighting didn't do it.  It was more used when NOEs were discovered.  There are a lot of differences in the ground target stuff between here and there that would make it far less effective here than it was over there.

Wiley.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Bino on February 27, 2012, 12:19:06 PM

I like the idea of delayed-action fuzes, so long as the following still applies:

Easy to fix.  Still require the bombs to travel through a certain distance of air.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 27, 2012, 01:05:47 PM

I remember a neat trick in AW3 was that if you were being chased to the deck by an enemy you could drop your bomb and it could be timed just right as to destroy the person chasing you.


Can be done in here as well, just takes better timing as the bomb needs to travel a 1000ft as opposed to the 500ft in AW.

ack-ack
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: icepac on February 28, 2012, 07:45:53 AM
I remember skip bombs in existing in warbirds so it should be easy to code the bombs to skip if they are dropped at a shallow angle.
Title: Re: D-Fuse Bombs
Post by: 321BAR on February 28, 2012, 08:40:30 AM
I'd like to see them in AH, but think about the GVs. Small puff of dirt beside you? .ef

:( it's what would happen.
thats when you would keep the fuse to contact :aok