Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lulu on March 11, 2012, 06:04:44 AM
-
More high is your speed approach to the target, more less gunnery convergence must be.
It's right?
:salute
-
it sorta makes sense.. do you mean that the fast you are going, the closer the guns will converge?
-
More high is your speed approach to the target, more less gunnery convergence must be.
It's right?
:salute
Not significantly, no.
-
"it sorta makes sense.. do you mean that the fast you are going, the closer the guns will converge?"
i thought yes
:salute
-
More high is your speed approach to the target, more less gunnery convergence must be.
It's right?
:salute
I would not agree with this as a "simple rule".
-
if you fire on a target that is D400 out...and you are going 500...they will still converge at D400.
if you fire on a target that is D400 out and you are going 200..they will converge at D400.
assuming your convergence is set to 400
it just means you will be closer to your target when they converge and hit
-
if you fire on a target that is D400 out...and you are going 500...they will still converge at D400.
if you fire on a target that is D400 out and you are going 200..they will converge at D400.
assuming your convergence is set to 400
it just means you will be closer to your target when they converge and hit
This is the way I think it is. I'm pretty sure I am right too. Seems to me if your convergence is at D400 out the bullets will ALWAYS cross at D400 out no matter your plane's speed, if that speed is kept constant and you are flying level.
F = bullet speed when leaving your plane using the ground as a reference frame
p= speed of plane
m= muzzle velocity of your bullet
F = p + m
-
This is the way I think it is. I'm pretty sure I am right too. Seems to me if your convergence is at D400 out the bullets will ALWAYS cross at D400 out no matter your plane's speed, if that speed is kept constant and you are flying level.
F = bullet speed when leaving your plane using the ground as a reference frame
p= speed of plane
m= muzzle velocity of your bullet
F = p + m
no matter what it will always converge at D400 from where ever the position of the plane is and where the bullet leaves the muzzle. thats because at that exact point the bullet starts its "life" its "life" is to converge with the other guns at D400.
so if :airplane: is flying at 500 MPH and is aiming at a target D400 (with convergence at D400 of course) those bullets will converge with eachother D400 out from where they left the muzzle.
really all speed has to do with gunnery is how big your window of opportunity is to hit the target as he's passing into your pipper.
-
I think the convergence is a function of speed, assuming no aerodynamic affects.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7041/6976290589_e3d9d52243_z.jpg)
-
I think the convergence is a function of speed, assuming no aerodynamic affects.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7041/6976290589_e3d9d52243_z.jpg)
Yes but this is from the point it was fired not from the relative point of the plane.
In the .419 secs of travel time ,the plane traveled. 102 yards. I.E. they still crossed at 400 yards relative to the plane.
______________
With drag taken into account as the plane travels faster the bullets deceleration is greater because it is a function of V^2, hence it takes longer to reach the convergence point. So they will converge at less then 400 yards relative to the plane as your speed increases.
HiTech
-
Yes but this is from the point it was fired not from the relative point of the plane.
In the .419 secs of travel time ,the plane traveled. 102 yards. I.E. they still crossed at 400 yards relative to the plane.
______________
With drag taken into account as the plane travels faster the bullets deceleration is greater because it is a function of V^2, hence it takes longer to reach the convergence point. So they will converge at less then 400 yards relative to the plane as your speed increases.
HiTech
True. Thanks for the calrification. :salute
Many answered that it 400 "from the point fired, regardless". I just wanted to correct that. I think the original question was for attacking a stationary target from planes at various speeds, so I answered relative to a fixed object. It would matter, but I don't recommend waiting to pull the trigger at 400ydrs if you are travelling at 500mph when pointing at a ground target. :D
-
Yes but this is from the point it was fired not from the relative point of the plane.
In the .419 secs of travel time ,the plane traveled. 102 yards. I.E. they still crossed at 400 yards relative to the plane.
______________
With drag taken into account as the plane travels faster the bullets deceleration is greater because it is a function of V^2, hence it takes longer to reach the convergence point. So they will converge at less then 400 yards relative to the plane as your speed increases.
HiTech
So if your going fast enough... you can shoot yourself down :neener:
-
no matter what it will always converge at D400 from where ever the position of the plane is and where the bullet leaves the muzzle. thats because at that exact point the bullet starts its "life" its "life" is to converge with the other guns at D400.
so if :airplane: is flying at 500 MPH and is aiming at a target D400 (with convergence at D400 of course) those bullets will converge with eachother D400 out from where they left the muzzle.
really all speed has to do with gunnery is how big your window of opportunity is to hit the target as he's passing into your pipper.
No they won't cross D400 out from where the left the muzzle. They with cross D400 out from the muzzle of the gun. Meaning the speed of the plane is added to the speed of the bullets.
-
Yes but this is from the point it was fired not from the relative point of the plane.
In the .419 secs of travel time ,the plane traveled. 102 yards. I.E. they still crossed at 400 yards relative to the plane.
______________
With drag taken into account as the plane travels faster the bullets deceleration is greater because it is a function of V^2, hence it takes longer to reach the convergence point. So they will converge at less then 400 yards relative to the plane as your speed increases.
HiTech
Another thought on Aerodynamics: I actually wondered if the bullet would "slide" that distance or if Aero forces would cause it to curve onto the path which it is pointing along.
-
No they won't cross D400 out from where the left the muzzle. They with cross D400 out from the muzzle of the gun. Meaning the speed of the plane is added to the speed of the bullets.
yes. thats what I was saying..I wasnt talking about the muzzle of the landing gear LOL
-
This is why all of you have to aim on average 10Mil high while flying level 6 and shooting past 200 to about 600.
Drop Compensation
When you pick your convergence in game your gunsight center is zeroed to that distance.
In real life your armourer would average the center of the gunsight against your harmonization patterning of vertical impact and horizontal convergence so your drop was compensated for 200-400 with wing mounted guns. The N9 gunsight in the P51 had a Hi/Low mounting for straffing and air to air along with whatever your armeror could accomplish if he went outside of regs.
In WW2 pilots were able to place the pipper on the target 200-400 becasue of this adjustment. In Aces High unless you build your gunsight with a drop compensation shadow line or other markings, you have to remember to include the loft calculation along with your lead calculation during your "Kentucky Windage" personal moment.
Hitech is very kind to us with motor mounted cannon by not locking them level with the airscrew shaft. You get to tilt them UP to zero their IP at your chosen convergence range in the hanger to verticaly harmonize with the hood MG. Other wise in real life the round had no loft leaving the prop HUB but, instead archs downward. Even at game convergence 150 the rounds go up slightly at first then arch down. If he locked the HUB cannon like real life, with 20mm and Ns-37 it just means you shoot low by about 8-12 inches out to 400. MK108/30 by 12 feet low. Bf109's with HUB mounted MK108 had their Revi gunsight centered to (-366cm) at 400M. The Ta152 was probably set this way also.
Our gun barrels are right hand spiral. So your rounds are affected to some degree by right hand "spin drift". At most maybe 6-12 inches at 1000 yards on avereage for .30, .50 and 20mm munition in our fighters. I've been reassesing some documents for the MK108/30mm and I beleive it has an 18 inch right hand spin drift at 400 meters with an average 12 foot(3.68m) drop. 27inches(68.376cm) right hand drift at 550M with an average 24 foot(7.68m) drop. I finally ran a modern spin drift calculator against the MK108 (physical structure),Mass,Msec,RoT and it showed the german values to be in centemeters. At least I've kept beating my head against my own bias over the past few years.
Blasted german ballistics techs in WW2 use .xxx for mm, xx.xxx for cm and xxx.xxx for M. Not mm, cm, M. But they use mm, cm, M in aircraft ariframe, engine and armerours manuals. I've been using xxx.xxx to interprit a spin drift chart for the MK108 for some years now becasue the values are input to the chart as xx.xxx while the ballistic drop values in meters were entered as xx.xxx by the same techs. Buttt, in the armeours manuals the distances are in meters and drop in centemeters..........
Go figure...... :headscratch:
-
More high is your speed approach to the target, more less gunnery convergence must be.
It's right?
:salute
Your speed relative to your target mostly just changes the timing of when you shoot. If you set your convergence at max distance then there is a little more time to concentrate fire on a target but with a close convergence you are likely to shoot more accurately at the convergence point and may get more hits even with a shorter burst. I wouldn't change convergence for different mission profiles, it's best to get used to one distance. There are enough variables in gunnery already.