Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: usb777 on March 11, 2012, 05:19:27 PM
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Any pointers on range and settings would be helpful. When I do get a shot, not many, I really need to make it count. Thank you for getting me in though, this program is the greatest most real ever! Most aircraft show three trajectories. Do they all need to be the same or different?
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With multiple cannons, you can spread them out a little bit because of the damage they deal out. That gives a greater chance of hits. With machine guns, it's usually better for all of them to converge at a single point to concentrate the damage. Try for something in the 250-400 range - whichever is closer to the type of shooting opportunities you typically get. If you are a BnZ type flyer, start at 400. If you TnB more, go for a closer setting. Nose mounted guns can be set out further than wing guns and still get good results. Whatever the setting, take most of your shots close to the range you choose.
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You can read more here http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/convergence3/convergence3.htm
Basically guns are tied in pairs, one on the left with one on the right. When setting convergence each line you are dragging in and out is a pair of guns. The point is where the guns cross...or converge. You set them where you fire. It is better to fire closer 300-400 than farther out 600.
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As a Sgt long ago, Army Infantry, I gave the class on the M-16. You have given me the refresher course I needed. Again thank you and when you see bear777 in your gunsites, please think well of me.
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As a Sgt long ago, Army Infantry, I gave the class on the M-16. You have given me the refresher course I needed. Again thank you and when you see bear777 in your gunsites, please think well of me.
thank you for your service in the armed forces. Your one of many vets in this game that has my highest respect :salute
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One or two more questions. Does it matter when staggering the distance of the guns which order say outer most gun at 300, middle at 275, inner at 250 or opposite outer at 250, middle at 275, inner at 300 considering all guns are of the same cal? Also, the line of vertical site I believe is preset in the program since we have no rear aperture or front site post to adjust and the plunging fire effect is based on Kentucky windage depending if one is within the range of say 225-325 yd. Am I correct? Other then that practice and experiment using the .target feature with the radio?
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Personally I don't like to stagger my guns. I have all of mine set at 300. When the range maker for each plane drops from 400 to 200 you are at 300 out. (200=100-300, 400=300-500) At 300 with 50s I feel they have a good punch, some of which you lose at 400 and farther out. With my guns at the same convergence I hit with a bunch of rounds in a single small area. With the convergence staggered you creating a "shot gun" effect and spreading you rounds out. Thats ok if you can stay on a target for a good amount of time like a buff or something. With a fighter they WILL be jumping all over the place and that single burst for a half second may be all the shot you get. There is also an amount of "drop" in the round due to gravity that you have to take into account for.
Try it both ways and see which way you like it, and yes practice practice, practice!
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Forward momentum requires drop compensation to place rounds in the path of the cons travel. Most of your combat shooting in this game is 200-400 dead 6 or Low-G-Angle OFF turns. Set your guns in wing mounted all to the same distance, even hood guns untill youhave gained experience. Begin with 300 to learn, read this linked AH post. Play with the linked gunsight offline with drones to understand drop compensation and lead. It won't hurt to download "Bag the Hun" that is linked to in the POST to understand Angle-Off.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,329131.0.html
Different rate of fire from different automatic whepons will require experimenting with your time of fire offline with the drones. One to two second bursts are the average. Nose mounted only guns are more like the combat pistol concept of Point and shoot. Your drop compensation is less in trailing 6 shots and you more often need to unload G to perform lead and snap shots. Either your ACM is good enough to force him into your shooting line or you are able to manuver to place your shots in his path as you choose.
In turns your wing mounted guns are shooting a bit up into the turn by how they are oriented in the wing. Nose mounted basicly are shooting behind you in a turn which causes many inexperienced players to miss in a turn fight becasue they underestemate how much lead is required. Enter the concept of unloading G with nose mounted. Placing your nose ahead of where the con will turn to and ease off on the turn while firing or even level your wings.
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One or two more questions. Does it matter when staggering the distance of the guns which order say outer most gun at 300, middle at 275, inner at 250 or opposite outer at 250, middle at 275, inner at 300 considering all guns are of the same cal? Also, the line of vertical site I believe is preset in the program since we have no rear aperture or front site post to adjust and the plunging fire effect is based on Kentucky windage depending if one is within the range of say 225-325 yd. Am I correct? Other then that practice and experiment using the .target feature with the radio?
There's been a debate on this forever now, ol squady flew his P47N with 4 guns at 350 and 4 at 375.
Personally I keep every gun under 350 range max, anything below 30caliber rounds I keep at 300. Frankly I don't fire beyond 300 yards either, I wait until the Target goes from D400 to D200 then rip a burst.
Reason being I believe in conserving ammo and scoring the max hits for my shots, I can say this has been extremely successful on my end, however most won't like the fact you can't shoot at D400/D600 range.
Its really a coin toss in the end how you want to set it up, some have guns setup for D650, etc.
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You guy's are great! Thanks, you probably know I already need all the help I can get after my first real experience this past weekend. I think I need a good wing man to.
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I fly on Saturdays from about 2 pm eastern until 11pm. Im rook most of the time, I'd be happy to fly with ya.
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I think I would like that. I am in Reno . I believe three hours behind you? I have been placed in the arena as a Knight last weekend. How would I change to a Rook? Oh, did I say I'm really good at following orders.
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To change countries, there is an 'O'Club' option in the Clipboard menu (press Escape). Once you've clicked O'Club there should be an option to change country to Rooks
You can change every 12 hours so you won't be stuck there forever
Glad to hear you're enjoying the game so far :)
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Depends on what type of guns too. Allied planes (.50 Cals, Hispanoes), are almost like lasers and have little drop in their trajectory.
MG151s, MK108s, and 13mms all have pretty bad ballistics and require more lead if you do not fire at the same range your convergence is at.
D300 is the optimum range almost every gun except maybe the P39s 37mm which unlike most cannons, have a very flat trajectory and can be set at D650.
My .50s are set at 350, my hispanos at 400, my MK108s at 200, and every other gun at 300.
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Depends on what type of guns too. Allied planes (.50 Cals, Hispanoes), are almost like lasers and have little drop in their trajectory.
MG151s, MK108s, and 13mms all have pretty bad ballistics and require more lead if you do not fire at the same range your convergence is at.
D300 is the optimum range almost every gun except maybe the P39s 37mm which unlike most cannons, have a very flat trajectory and can be set at D650.
My .50s are set at 350, my hispanos at 400, my MK108s at 200, and every other gun at 300.
Don't you mean the Yak-9T? The 37mm on the P-39 drops like a meteor.
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Don't you mean the Yak-9T? The 37mm on the P-39 drops like a meteor.
D200-D225 for 37MM on Yak-9T and P-39 has been favorable for me
D250 for 109K4 works, heard some have it at 200-300.
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Don't you mean the Yak-9T? The 37mm on the P-39 drops like a meteor.
I might have them mixed up, don't fly either that much.
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If you set any motor cannon to 200 then fly offline at a level steady speed of about 250ta at the offline target. You will be surprised how littel drop there is in the ShVAK20mm, MG151/20, MK108/30mm, M4-37 and NS-37 between 200-400. About 5Mil average.
The ballistic issues many players experience with the MK108 and M4 are due to their slow initial velocity from the barrel which translates into a slow time to target. Many forget that the round is slowing down as it travels. With the 30mm and M4 from 0-200 you are firing dead on to a 2-3Mil dispersion/drop and 200 to 400 your ballistic drop is about 5-10Mil dispersion and 10Mil. By 400 the 30mm and M4 have dropped about 12 feet. After 400 both are worthless for air to air shooting becasue of the drastic dropoff to 600 and increasing time to target. By 600 the MK108 is down to 370m/sec. You will notice offline at 400 all of these 20-37mm cannon have abismal dispersion which limits their effective range to under 400.
Over the years there are always a few dedicated players who spend the prodigious amount of time to learn the drop and lead timing for these kinds of big guns MK108 & M4. Or have a natural affinity for them. They are the exception not the rule. But, will probably chime in here anyway as though they are the normative player group. Shooting takes the time to practice.
MG151/20.......720m/s
ShVAK 20mm...770m/s
Mk108 30mm...500m/s
M4-37mm........610m/s
NS-37 37mm....900m/s
If the NS-37 which had a short stroke action, is modeled correctly in the Yak9T, then a 735gHE projectile at 900M/sec, recoil induced dispersion should make hitting anything with it past 3 round bursts problematic to near impossible.
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Bustr whats a ballistic?
dood you know I couldnt contain it!!
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Ballistic:
It's that snakey lizardy thing that petrifies you with it's gaze. Remember Harry Potter and the "Chamber of Secrets"? Well in this game it petrifies you with it's slowness and most of the time is so near sighted it misses you. Then you recover after it passes by you.
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Ballistic:
It's that snakey lizardy thing that petrifies you with it's gaze. Remember Harry Potter and the "Chamber of Secrets"? Well in this game it petrifies you with it's slowness and most of the time is so near sighted it misses you. Then you recover after it passes by you.
Isn't that a basilisk from like greek mythology aswell? Whats the connection in name? And I never read/watched Harry potter. Seriously tho bustr may be really "in depth" but if you read his wall of text it does help alot. I know he's helped my gunnery alot and I haven't even applied all his teachings or techniques.
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If you set any motor cannon to 200 then fly offline at a level steady speed of about 250ta at the offline target. You will be surprised how littel drop there is in the ShVAK20mm, MG151/20, MK108/30mm, M4-37 and NS-37 between 200-400. About 5Mil average.
The ballistic issues many players experience with the MK108 and M4 are due to their slow initial velocity from the barrel which translates into a slow time to target. Many forget that the round is slowing down as it travels. With the 30mm and M4 from 0-200 you are firing dead on to a 2-3Mil dispersion/drop and 200 to 400 your ballistic drop is about 5-10Mil dispersion and 10Mil. By 400 the 30mm and M4 have dropped about 12 feet. After 400 both are worthless for air to air shooting becasue of the drastic dropoff to 600 and increasing time to target. By 600 the MK108 is down to 370m/sec. You will notice offline at 400 all of these 20-37mm cannon have abismal dispersion which limits their effective range to under 400.
Over the years there are always a few dedicated players who spend the prodigious amount of time to learn the drop and lead timing for these kinds of big guns MK108 & M4. Or have a natural affinity for them. They are the exception not the rule. But, will probably chime in here anyway as though they are the normative player group. Shooting takes the time to practice.
MG151/20.......720m/s
ShVAK 20mm...770m/s
Mk108 30mm...500m/s
M4-37mm........610m/s
NS-37 37mm....900m/s
If the NS-37 which had a short stroke action, is modeled correctly in the Yak9T, then a 735gHE projectile at 900M/sec, recoil induced dispersion should make hitting anything with it past 3 round bursts problematic to near impossible.
I would agree that it's all about "feeling" the round, I guess I played with taters too much that now I'm used to it. As long as they're not making erratic movements past d400, I can land a hit within 2-3 tracers shells. I switched over from the K4 to a P39Q the other day and had a MUCH more successful time with landing hits. Perhaps it was the 1 bullet = 1 tracer that helped me, but I played around against CV planes and knocked them out of the sky D400+ away. The M4 is slightly faster and maybe that's why, but IMO, the tracers helped a lot more.
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Dood here I thought this was a Harry Potter thread....dern and I like ballistics the way they slither on the ground and hiss and give that stink eye.
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If you want to, have a look here.
http://www.fw190.org/training2.htm
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When I hear the word ballistic I think of Mythbusters' ballistic gel projects.. :)
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Convergence settings are overrated imo.
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Convergence settings are overrated imo.
I used to agree, and if you mean in terms of small changes like say, point convergence at 325 versus 300, I agree completely.
However recently I thought I'd experiment a bit and shortened my convergence on my .50 cals from 450 to 300. I had it at 450 in case I wanted to reach out to 800-1000 to get someone to turn and felt the damage was good enough in closer. I wanted the ability to have best accuracy and damage as they're pulling away from me at 400 icon.
The reason I brought the convergence in is I've found myself lately not doing any shooting outside of icon 600 because I've come to the realization the .50s out there haven't got near the punch they do in close, and unless you're getting a newish guy to turn, it's not worth wasting the bullets.
I have always done most of my shooting in between 400 and 200 icon. My ability to hit hasn't changed in my opinion, but subjectively it feels like when I hit something now, I am way more likely to knock something off. Snapshots feel like they work much better now too.
I believe the explanation for this is that it's on wing mounted .50s, the type of gun setup that benefits the most from hitting at convergence versus all other gun setups. If I flew nose mounted stuff primarily I doubt the difference would be as noticable.
I believe the answer for convergence is truly 'where you do most of your shooting at.'
Wiley.
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I believe the answer for convergence is truly 'where you do most of your shooting at.'
Wiley.
This is what I usually suggest,then explain how the icon counter works. When the icon changes to D200 the plane is actually about 300 yards away. Personally I keep my convergences in close,275 would be the furthest out I set any gun and like to see D0 before I shoot!
:salute
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I have the convergence for my f4u 50.s set at 325. And I can still aim and make parts come off at 800 range if I just make the correct lead and get about 1sec burst in at one spot. If I follow someone that is attempting to rope me and he's 800 above me like a big cross in the sky, I just aim a good plane length infront of him while I give him that 1sec burst. If the burst hits a wing the wing will come off.
I have seen ailerons and elevators come off, and fuel leak at 1000 range with my convergence set at 325. But once the range icon turns to 1k it is pointless to waste more ammo, atleast that is my experience.
So even if I might do a bit more damage further out with higher convergence, I don't see the point. The way I fight I usually fire at 200-400, the long range shots I only use to show some that they are not necessarily safe at 800 range from me if it is obvious that they are believing that.. :devil
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This is what I usually suggest,then explain how the icon counter works. When the icon changes to D200 the plane is actually about 300 yards away. Personally I keep my convergences in close,275 would be the furthest out I set any gun and like to see D0 before I shoot!
:salute
Don't you fly through alot of debree doing that, D0.. ?? :uhoh :D
I have to try that.. If I can restrain myself to hold fire that long that is.. :noid
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Don't you fly through alot of debree doing that, D0.. ?? :uhoh :D
I have to try that.. If I can restrain myself to hold fire that long that is.. :noid
Sometimes..... :furious But I dont see well so I have to get that close to hit anything! :bhead
:salute
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Hey morfeind, you ever looked into the (aircraft.cfg) file and divided the first 3 digits by 3? Don't worry if the forth number down in many of them says 975. It only seems to matter in P47's.
Still wish Hitech would give us control over both (x & y) when we set convergence. Heck even give us a (y) setting for the gunsight reflector glass or at least (High, Medium, Low). Heck the engine deck down slope of the 109's allows a Revi line of sight down to -11 feet at 437 yards. Thats only 8.4Mil or about the same adjustment the Tiffie's MkIIL gunsight had for rocket firing. MkIIL is the spitfire gunsight you see occasionaly with a dial knob on it. Used them for rockets and the 40mm.
Can you see the complaints after players set their Tiffy gunsight for rockets in the hanger and don't remember to shoot high with the cannons after they use up the rockets? Though it would be close to the drop compensation I put in my wing gun gunsight. A 5 degree tilt would get you about 10Mil. The Revi could tilt about 14 degrees.
Can you see the conversations you would have with new players trying to first determine how they setup thier (x, y, z) to help them correct their gunnery problems?
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Trainer: Hmmmm, OK, use High for shooting long range at bombers with a 650 convergence. Use Medium to furball with a..Hmmmm, 350 convergence. And yes...Low for rockets. Got that nadsmasr??
nadsmasr: I jess wants to shoot em realll good. Quit confusin me with all that knowlege. I jess wanna point at em and they go boom.
Trainer: You have your gunsight set to High don't you??
nadsmasr: If you say so. You the trainer. I thought High was for High Powered, sumthin like that or another. I juss want them to go boom when I point it at them!!
Trainer: You wanna share one of those shooters?? What are you using for a chaser?? Realistic gunnery, yeah, someone just got old and lost their mind. Realistc gunnery my bippy.......This is a bleeping game not WW2 on a popsickel stick. They couldn't smack a bull in the rump with a banjo in the old model. Now they can't hit the floor dropping their pants in the doctor's office. If I ever meet that IDIOT with all that Mil math from the BBS. I'll smack the floor with him and use a banjo to give him a bleeping exam......
nadsmasr: Is it something I said??
Mrs. Trainer: Mr. nadsmasr....Mr. Trainer just walked out the front door mumbling something about Texas, Mil Idiots and Banjos. Do you know why he's running around the yard flapping his arms and shouting piu, piu, piu, stick that where the Banjo don't shine??
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If you take the D9 up offline with the 20mm set to 275 and fly reasonably level about 285 TA against the offline target. You will notice you get a pattern from the 20mm zero'd at 275 and then again at about 550. Now if we could set the 20mm crossing at 550 but leave the 275 point alone.
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Bustr,
Actually I never mess with any files in the game! But if you'd like to go into some more detail on that plz pm me,not sure I understand what your trying to get at.
:salute
PS: your "trainers" sketch was pretty close to home...... :o
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<snip>
PS: your "trainers" sketch was pretty close to home...... :o
Indeed!!
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Lots of pics of my favorite convergences. http://thesquad.forumotion.net/t39-convergences
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss64.jpg)(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss153.jpg)
D200 is 101-300feet, D400 is 301-500, and D600 is 501-700.
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Now that's what I'm looking for! How do I set up this shot on my screen?
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This is what I usually suggest,then explain how the icon counter works. When the icon changes to D200 the plane is actually about 300 yards away. Personally I keep my convergences in close,275 would be the furthest out I set any gun and like to see D0 before I shoot!
So when the icon is showing 600 the actual range is actually somewhere in between 700 and 500?
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yes
But it's actually supposed to be in yards not feet as I originally typed it on that site.
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Thank you Tool :salute