Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TheRapier on March 11, 2012, 08:59:07 PM
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Since this is a WWII combat game, you have to ask, how well does it replicate the experience?
One major indication that things are out of whack is when bombers can successfully go around and hunt fighters with near impunity. Yes it takes good timing and skill but you have to do things that wouldn't really happen in WWII. Bombers can now make manuevers that would plaster the entire crew against the ceiling and floor in negative and positive G manuevers and still fire accurately. 4 engine bombers regularly dive bomb. Their tracers don' t work. They can fire all their guns with absolute accuracy on a single point. You have to ask, in what world is this ok for a game like this?
Combine it with puffy ack that models a cloud of your own personal ack that can follow you anywhere you go and you have a game that really has veered away from its roots.
Seems like we've tipped over. Its not just the bombers, the whole game balance now favors horde warrior. The game should really be able to span the skillless and the skilled but it seems its going to the unreal. Since the last update, its hardly been worth messing with. Let's call it Arcade High! Then all that can't fly will be attracted and those who are looking for a facsimile of WWII air combat can know what to expect.
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We should find ways to limit the arcade. You covered Lanc-stukas.
HOing, another case in point. Yes it happened in real life but not too common. In game the only harm is to ones ego, which leads to it being a regular tool. In real life it strikes me a half decent pilot would work for something more then a Vegas style, 50/50 shot, life or death. I don't know how to stop it though what if we had a similar algorithm as collisions and if the 'gods of AH' determine you've HO'd you have a 5 minute penalty. It will tick people off though in time they will begin to replicate real life.
Flame on!
Boo
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This game has to appeal to the xbox gamers in order to stay afloat. The flight sim guys don't matter anymore.
Just hop in your favorite ride and tag along with 50 of your countrymen and kill whatever you can, by any means possible and you can be a top ranked ace in no time. :aok
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You guys really need to get the HOing is bad attitude out of your mind. Just because AW didnt allow it didn't mean it was right, good or correct. Yes I flew back then and I dealt with it but crap get over it and move on.
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well... there are a number of things that the bombers in AH do, or rather "can do" that they didn't in WWII.
First, the typical level bombing speed in AH is far greater than in WWII. B24's and B17's typically dropped at less than 220 TAS. In AH, it is full throttle and why not??? There is no accuracy penalty for high speeds. I can not vouch for the B29 or the Mossi B Mk XVI. I can show you hand written records from my grandfather's flight logs on where, alt, speeds, etc for B24D bombing runs in the south PTO.
Second, there is no altitude or angle restriction for when a bomber is able to let loose their ordnance. Now obviously there are some aircraft that were designed, built, and utilized in both dive bombing/shallow dive bombing and level bombing. The B5N, Ju88, B25, and even the supposedly the Lancaster (although I can not find actual literature to show it was designed to dive or shallow bomb), were all dual purpose. There must be some latitude in labeling bombers if ever there were any restrictions placed on which model could drop bombs outside of the bomb sight.
There are a couple more, but those two are the biggest issues I have with the bombers in AH: there are no restrictions. Use them as dog fighters, spawn point carpet bombers (from 500ft), etc etc There is nothing stopping the use of an aircraft far outside the realm of what it truly was capable doing.
FWIW: the Head On pass takes TWO, it **always** takes 2 to "HO". It is a viable tactic and an inevitable tactic as well. With the goal being to get your guns on the enemy, sooner or later each pilot will be aiming as well a being targeted at the same time. If you choose to partake in the Mexican stand off then be prepared to get shot down and consider yourself very lucky if you manage to stay in the air. Once you accept that fact the sooner you will stop crying about it and deal with it.
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Hoing is not the issue. That can be avoided fairly easy. I think the flight model is what is in question here, along with the hoarding aspect.
I can't say I disagree with the OP. Brewsters seem to gain E in a turn, spitfires and 190s can flop all over the place, lancs can dive like stukas.................
The hoarding, i don't know if that can ever be fixed as long as we have multi wing squads and the ability to post huge missions with as many people as they can get to join up.
Then there's the broken point system. I don't look for any of it to get better anytime soon.
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It's been a few months since I was actually in the game, but I never found dog-fighting bombers to be that much of a problem. Sure, some people do it, but it always seemed like such a small minority (including dive bombing bombers) that it never bothered me. I'd much rather shoot at a B-17 making maneuvers than one flying strait and steady and when I know he's sitting in his turret looking at me.
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Hey guys? Exactly what you are describing happened in WWII. Read a book sometime okay? :devil
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Too many people over 500 tonight, but people 'the majority' like playing that way and thats what counts I'm afraid. I agree with pretty much all of the OPs statment.
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The problem isn't bombers doing crazy maneuvers, it's them doing them while in formation and not losing their drones. Since there is no danger of friendly collisions, buff drivers can immelman, barrel roll and negative g stick stir. Then when you line up for a shot, they hit X and drill you with the defensive guns of three bombers. A single bomber should be allowed anything it's flight model permits, but the leash on the drones needs to be tightened up.
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Hey guys? Exactly what you are describing happened in WWII. Read a book sometime okay? :devil
The 40 plus Mustangs taking out an airfield and a town? I missed that one in the books I've read :)
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How the same people can come on daily, hour after hour and do the same thing over and over is beyond me. Mass up, overwhelm a base, capture..next! Yuck. Its like a job to some of them.
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The 40 plus Mustangs taking out an airfield and a town? I missed that one in the books I've read :)
1000 Destroyed by Grover Hall ring a bell? 16 April 1945?
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1000 Destroyed by Grover Hall ring a bell? 16 April 1945?
Not lugging bombs and rockets of course :)
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How the same people can come on daily, hour after hour and do the same thing over and over is beyond me. Mass up, overwhelm a base, capture..next! Yuck. Its like a job to some of them.
Each to their own.
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you are doing 300mph, d800 and going away from the bombers? No issue for the laser magic turrets, here goes your blood and oil/rad
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The flight sim guys don't matter anymore.
Naaaaa, that's dead wrong. Flight-sim guys are just a piece of the pie. Granted, and ever smaller piece. But HTC wouldn't make enough to buy lunch if they catered to "flight-sim guys". Catering to flight-sim guys would create an atmosphere that takes WORK to make stuff happen. How ya think that would work out? Gamer guys have and always will be a royal pain in the butt to anyone trying to take AH seriously as a "combat flight sim". Ya just gotta learn to put up with'em.
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What the heck are you guys talking about? Nothing has changed in the flight model. Dive bombing Lancs are lame yes, but thats been going on a long time now. If you let a bomber shoot you down, it is totally your fault.
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This game has to appeal to the xbox gamers in order to stay afloat. The flight sim guys don't matter anymore.
Just hop in your favorite ride and tag along with 50 of your countrymen and kill whatever you can, by any means possible and you can be a top ranked ace in no time. :aok
So very true.....XBOX generation rules anymore........"I don't know how to use a joystick" puff.....A,S,W,D tells part of the story.
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How the same people can come on daily, hour after hour and do the same thing over and over is beyond me. Mass up, overwhelm a base, capture..next! Yuck. Its like a job to some of them.
A horde is only a problem if you are in it.
If you are in it, your are the problem.
If you are the type like to win the war, then rolling bases is how that's done. How many players should an attack be limited too? Should there be a limit on defenders?
If you're not into winning the war, then who cares who's rolling bases and who wins the war?
The game ebbs and flows when it comes to numbers. It's balanced over time, not in every situation. If you don't like the numbers just wait a minute, they'll change, or go to another part of the map and start a fight. Go find an empty base and fly to it. Some will up and you can 1v1, 2v1 all night. :salute
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well... there are a number of things that the bombers in AH do, or rather "can do" that they didn't in WWII.
First, the typical level bombing speed in AH is far greater than in WWII. B24's and B17's typically dropped at less than 220 TAS. In AH, it is full throttle and why not??? There is no accuracy penalty for high speeds. I can not vouch for the B29 or the Mossi B Mk XVI. I can show you hand written records from my grandfather's flight logs on where, alt, speeds, etc for B24D bombing runs in the south PTO.
Second, there is no altitude or angle restriction for when a bomber is able to let loose their ordnance. Now obviously there are some aircraft that were designed, built, and utilized in both dive bombing/shallow dive bombing and level bombing. The B5N, Ju88, B25, and even the supposedly the Lancaster (although I can not find actual literature to show it was designed to dive or shallow bomb), were all dual purpose. There must be some latitude in labeling bombers if ever there were any restrictions placed on which model could drop bombs outside of the bomb sight.
There are a couple more, but those two are the biggest issues I have with the bombers in AH: there are no restrictions. Use them as dog fighters, spawn point carpet bombers (from 500ft), etc etc There is nothing stopping the use of an aircraft far outside the realm of what it truly was capable doing.
FWIW: the Head On pass takes TWO, it **always** takes 2 to "HO". It is a viable tactic and an inevitable tactic as well. With the goal being to get your guns on the enemy, sooner or later each pilot will be aiming as well a being targeted at the same time. If you choose to partake in the Mexican stand off then be prepared to get shot down and consider yourself very lucky if you manage to stay in the air. Once you accept that fact the sooner you will stop crying about it and deal with it.
German pilots came in from the front because the combined speed caused the canon to hit harder. Granted they did not all came from the front. Records show some even rammed bombers if they had to.
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I remember when Fonzie jumped sharks w/ water skis :old:
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Well, ya can't see their tracers, but they can see them while they are firing. This changes everything and nothing. If you are correct in your approaches, it does not matter whether you can see him firing or not, make your pass and get the kill. There is a difference also not seeing tracers when you and a mate are double-teaming a buff, now ya can't see who the buff is focused on untill you hear the hits or your mate calls them out.
The bottom line is it is a change, and it is more of a challenge to the attacking fighter. Bigger challenge = more satisfaction from the kill.
The advantage is still far and away to the quality fighter jock.
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I thought the "no bomber tracers" change was a bug.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,330000.0.html
BTW, I also agree that a maneuvering buff is easier to shoot down (unless he has separate players as gunners, which is not usual).
MH
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I like when the bombers soak all the damage just by switching plane.
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To make the ask here clear. HTC can make any game they want to, it's their development money. My subscription is MY money. What is asked is a clear statement of what kind of game is this. It's stated on the home page, "High fidelity flight simulation is the heart of Aces High but it doesn't end there."
The truth is that bombers in this game clearly don't behave like WWII bombers, not by any stretch of the imagination. They may make great Corellian battlecruisers that appear as a B17 or a B24 or Lanc, but their behavior shows something else. A person who has learned to exploit these seams in the game has a clear advantage. A fighter has to make a perfect attack run to have a chance of surviving against this and survival depends on the bomber not pulling max Gs. As a consequence the balance is changed. The ask of HTC is a statement, is this what you intend? If it is, it tells us whether this is a game we want to invest in or not. Personally, I own an Xbox, if this is what this becomes then there is no need for separate subscription. I'm sure there are a lot of other folks like me.
I don't think this is a choice between Xbox Arcade play and simulation. I think its a choice between accurate modeling or not. Both the hard core ACM person and the newby should be able to find a place here. I can see how the changes might have been made to make individual bombers more survivable but given the new horde warrior trend in arena, you have unstoppable Corellian battlecruisers with escorts that are only escorting to pick up kills from the bombers. That is clearly not WWII.
Simple solution seems to be, look at the G load. If a gunner could not stand (1.5 gs or should do it) or manuever their gun, the guns should not shoot. If the plane is upside down or sideways, they shouldn't shoot. If the plane is diving beyond a certain angle, bombs should not drop.
BTW there is acknowledgement in the thread Deacon references that this is a bug.
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The truth is that bombers in this game clearly don't behave like WWII bombers, not by any stretch of the imagination. They may make great Corellian battlecruisers that appear as a B17 or a B24 or Lanc, but their behavior shows something else. A person who has learned to exploit these seams in the game has a clear advantage. A fighter has to make a perfect attack run to have a chance of surviving against this and survival depends on the bomber not pulling max Gs. As a consequence the balance is changed. The ask of HTC is a statement, is this what you intend? If it is, it tells us whether this is a game we want to invest in or not. Personally, I own an Xbox, if this is what this becomes then there is no need for separate subscription. I'm sure there are a lot of other folks like me.
Huh? You are getting owned by bombers in a turn fight? :huh
The most lethal bombers are the ones that can make deviations in course to set up unfavorable angles for assaulting fighters, and the ones that have lethal accuracy, which requires the bomber to be flying on autopilot.
If you are losing turn fights to B26's and light bombers of sorts, then that is just hilarious.
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I out flew both draggon and Hoagi in a JU88, please someone lock me up and throw away the key!
It is also well noted that Alex Henshaw barrel rolled a Lancaster light. Try telling your Guy Gibson's that you can't do anything but fly straight and level that is NOT how dams get blown up! :old:
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I agree, I think a lot of people "game the game" with buffs, but it is what it is.
Obviously that's the way HTC wants it or it would be changed. I'm sure coding G load and dive angle wouldn't be that big a deal for people like they have at HTC to add in. While there are instances of buffs doing dive bombing in the war it wasn't the norm. Here it is becoming more of the norm than high alt level bombing. I'm all for people getting rewarded for using the equipment the way it was intended, as well as punishing those that use them not as intended.
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A fighter has to make a perfect attack run to have a chance of surviving
you have unstoppable Corellian battlecruisers with escorts that are only escorting to pick up kills from the bombers. That is clearly not WWII.
+1 on my quotes
Shouldn't the bombers have a max calibrated speed? Skillfull pilots should still be able to compensate manually.
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I've seen bombers do a roll and keep their wings on, but I've also seen bombers go from level flight to auto-climb and rip their wings off.
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+1 on my quotes
Shouldn't the bombers have a max calibrated speed? Skillfull pilots should still be able to compensate manually.
The problem with that is, at least for me, I cant keep a drop calibrated at a less then Max speed. Its either my stick or my USB but i get angle drift if I calibrate using and RPM or manual setting. Since I notice no group of bombers stay at exactly the same speed, while in formation, no matter what the setting. I assume Im not the only one with this issue.
Biggest thing I see different, from years ago, is that there isnt the amount of skilled bomber hunters in the game that there used to be. Frankly also there are also far less, and fewer, bomber sticks and squads that fly the big friends in Historical correct ways then there used to be.
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I've seen bombers do a roll and keep their wings on, but I've also seen bombers go from level flight to auto-climb and rip their wings off.
Well, historically the Lancaster was capable of a full roll without shedding parts. An A-20G pilot told me that they were not allowed to roll inverted in the A-20 due to wing loss. I don't know if that is true or just something they were told to keep them from trying it.
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Grizz, please . . .
Huh? You are getting owned by bombers in a turn fight?
Nothing was said about a turn fight. I'd "think" you'd know better than that but then maybe?
If you've been flying lately you have to have seen one of these guys. The bombers are diving to put you onto their tail guns, then shred you that way or go level and really shred you. They pull Gs in a pull out ya see :).
So you can rest assured that you are the smartest/most qualified/best ACM person in the room :). No need to prove it here.
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If you've been flying lately you have to have seen one of these guys. The bombers are diving to put you onto their tail guns, then shred you that way or go level and really shred you. They pull Gs in a pull out ya see :).
Respectfully, two questions: How often are you seeing this? Secondly, why are you walking into their six? The guys that do this eventually run out of sky and you can slash them to death.
The no tracers thing is a legitimate gripe, but the rest of the stuff you described... The only thing that I find difficult when a guy immelmans a buff is getting some rounds onto his drones so I get perks for the kills instead of the proxy.
It would be cool if buffs couldn't gun above a certain G load, but I can't think of a single instance in the last month... actually 'ever' where a guy barrel rolled his B24 and shot me down on the way through...
Wiley.
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Shame on these bombers for not flying strait and level for you to shoot at. Nosing down to get a better shot!! Unheard of!
There are a few extremes, I really hate to see 4-engine bombers making a 90 degree drive strait down. However, it's just so rare of an occurrence, I don't think it's a problem.
How do you know how many Gs are being exerted on the bomber when you're flying in your fighter? Though there are legitimate complaints, I think most of these are simply fighters crying that the big bad bomber guy got them. "The bomber turned when I shot at him!? Unrealistic!!!"
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As somebody you will regularly find in a group of B-17s, let me say that maybe 2 in 10 fighter jocks in this game know how to make an attack against a box of bombers. Most of those bad-oscar fighter jocks I shoot down are just mindlessly attacking my tail like sheep coming to the slaughter. Since there is no "penalty" for getting blasted from the sky by 12 50-cals when you saddle up under the tail of a box of B-17s, they don't care if they lose a fighter just to get one of my drones. I am amazed how many people take the time to climb directly over me, and then figure a good place to be is sitting 200 yard off my tailguns blasting away at a drone.
<S> those of you that actually learn how to make a slashing attack on a B-17 and live.
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<S> those of you that actually learn how to make a slashing attack on a B-17 and live.
I've said it before and ill say it again - A good gunner is going to whip your butt regardless, 999000 is one of those you just don't get to many free shots with him.
I took n00fer into a custom arena to do some B17s vs 262 practice, showing him how to slash attack, he got the hang of it after 2-3 tries, however most just won't listen/learn like this.
The most patient fighter I know is Snailman, who will hunt your buffs and wait for that perfect time to attack, taking his time and executing it.
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I've said it before and ill say it again - A good gunner is going to whip your butt regardless, 999000 is one of those you just don't get to many free shots with him.
I took n00fer into a custom arena to do some B17s vs 262 practice, showing him how to slash attack, he got the hang of it after 2-3 tries, however most just won't listen/learn like this.
The most patient fighter I know is Snailman, who will hunt your buffs and wait for that perfect time to attack, taking his time and executing it.
When you're a snail, patience is not an option.
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So if I'm flying my B25Cs in formation and you attack from my low 6 where I'm defenseless, it's therefor considered wrong and unfair if I put my bombers in a shallow climb and roll to give the top turret downward depression?
Granted I realize it's dweeby, but if I feel like the fighter pilot I'm facing in my bombers is a decent stick I will make them work for my kill(s). This means I may climb, I may dive, I may turn...hard, I may chop throttle, I may firewall throttle, the point is I will make them work for it. Remember it's a game, not life.
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The most patient fighter I know is Snailman, who will hunt your buffs and wait for that perfect time to attack, taking his time and executing it.
Snailman was always a lot of fun to run into while in a set of bombers, I ran into him a few times while he was in bombers as well. Top notch guy! :aok
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I want to thank everyone for chiming in. I do appreciate all the effort to reinterpret this into something it isn't, or something I've said into something I didn't say :). Makes for good communication and an enjoyable experience.
After 22 years of online air combat, even in my little brain, I've figured out a few things about flight games. I know how to knock down bombers, and I know how to stay off of their six if they are flown realistically. Patience is not a problem for me. You can believe that or not but that's not what I'm bringing forward. It's not really important what I do or don't do in game.
Bottom line, the issue is:
- Does the modeling in the game force these planes (and the fighters of course) to be flown realisitically?
- Is the gunnery model realistic?
I'd have to say there is reasonable evidence that it fails on both of those accounts. I'm asking HTC, is this what they intend? If it is, it tells us the kind of game being made. If it isn't it would seem that rectifying those problems would be something that hits a "to do" list somewhere.
Back to your regularly scheduled evisceration . . .
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I want to thank everyone for chiming in. I do appreciate all the effort to reinterpret this into something it isn't, or something I've said into something I didn't say :). Makes for good communication and an enjoyable experience.
After 22 years of online air combat, even in my little brain, I've figured out a few things about flight games. I know how to knock down bombers, and I know how to stay off of their six if they are flown realistically. Patience is not a problem for me. You can believe that or not but that's not what I'm bringing forward. It's not really important what I do or don't do in game.
Bottom line, the issue is:
- Does the modeling in the game force these planes (and the fighters of course) to be flown realisitically?
- Is the gunnery model realistic?
I'd have to say there is reasonable evidence that it fails on both of those accounts. I'm asking HTC, is this what they intend? If it is, it tells us the kind of game being made. If it isn't it would seem that rectifying those problems would be something that hits a "to do" list somewhere.
Back to your regularly scheduled evisceration . . .
A lot of posts are simply general posts, not directed at you personally.
I think the big thing we disagree on is "reasonable evidence" that there is problem. I'm sure it's not perfect, I wouldn't mind seeing some changes. But, overall I don't think bomber flight dynamics are any more "unrealistic" than fighters.
What is your issue with bomber guns?
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I want to thank everyone for chiming in. I do appreciate all the effort to reinterpret this into something it isn't, or something I've said into something I didn't say :). Makes for good communication and an enjoyable experience.
After 22 years of online air combat, even in my little brain, I've figured out a few things about flight games. I know how to knock down bombers, and I know how to stay off of their six if they are flown realistically. Patience is not a problem for me. You can believe that or not but that's not what I'm bringing forward. It's not really important what I do or don't do in game.
Bottom line, the issue is:
- Does the modeling in the game force these planes (and the fighters of course) to be flown realisitically?
- Is the gunnery model realistic?
I'd have to say there is reasonable evidence that it fails on both of those accounts. I'm asking HTC, is this what they intend? If it is, it tells us the kind of game being made. If it isn't it would seem that rectifying those problems would be something that hits a "to do" list somewhere.
Back to your regularly scheduled evisceration . . .
I believe that both are true. The problem comes to the for when you add in the ability to arise from the dead instantly.
I believe the real planes that the cartoon ones are modeled after would, and could perform as they do in the game. The biggest difference is our planes don't get wear and tear and while you could do these maneuvers in the real planes you wouldn't get away with it for ever, and one mistake could be your last.
Here on the other hand, we can do these maneuvers over and over with out fear of the plane failing, nor, should we screw the pooch, dieing. HTC has used the data they think is most accurate and this is what we get. This being a game, people who CAN not or WILL not try to excel with training and skill instead look for the "short cuts" to get around that whole issue of "learning" and "practicing" to build a "skill". So instead of flying with a friend or two to create bigger buff groups that can protect each other they fly alone and count on ridiculous evasive maneuvers, or just don't care whether or not they get shot down as so use them as dive bombers and ground straffers.
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I want to thank everyone....
I'm sorry if I came off wrong Rapier as I have the up most respect for you in this community.
To answer your question with my opinion.
Does the modeling in the game force these planes (and the fighters of course) to be flown realisitically?
No it doesn't, and IMO never should. Many planes in AH could be pushed harder and do things IRL that no sane crew would ever do unless their life was on the line. Bombers could do some pretty incredible things but like you said most of these maneuvers would throw the crew around or cause other problems.
HTC has modeled these aircraft according to their information and they've given us a sandbox to play in and do whatever we want with these planes within the rules of the game. Some of this stuff can be seen as dweeby to some while for others it's their source of fun. When the B29's came out one of the first things I did was take off and find a tank battle to dive bomb with it. Why? Because I'm not sane, and everyone that was around got a great laugh out of it.
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/GenBeef/Dweeb1.png)
One reason I love AH is the fact that I get to take planes and push them in ways they were never used, BUT, had the ability to do. My favorite past time is flying the B25C into furballs and dogfighting, something it was NEVER ment to do. I die 99.8% of the time when I do this, but there is that 0.02% chance that I will get multiple A2A kills with the thing and get a change to land them....that is what I play the game for.
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq278/GenBeef/B25CvsNIKI.png)
If HTC were to restrict bombers to only flying certain ways and only being able to drop bombs in certain ways it would most likely kill the game for me.
Secondly....
Is the gunnery model realistic?
Yes and no. The guns fire like they should and with trajectories like they should, however, bomber gunners never were "in-tune" with one another like they are here. What you have to remember is the pilot of a bomber is doing the jobs of multiple men, I mean when flying a B17 formation 1 player is doing the jobs of 30 men! If the player could only fire 1 gun at a time it would mean the death of a bomber as the fighter pilot would only be facing a fraction of the firepower the plane had IRL. Secondly even though bomber defensive fire wasn't as concentrated IRL like it is in here, it was still a pretty big threat.
Although not completely realistic I feel that bomber gunnery in Aces High is a good balance. Yes a player controlling 36 x .50s on a set of B17s is a bit much, however, you should be attacking those bombers with a wingman anyway. Seriously, two fighters attacking a set of bombers GREATLY increases the chances of killing them by splitting their defensive fire, even with a gunner on board.
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I believe that both are true. The problem comes to the for when you add in the ability to arise from the dead instantly.
I believe the real planes that the cartoon ones are modeled after would, and could perform as they do in the game. The biggest difference is our planes don't get wear and tear and while you could do these maneuvers in the real planes you wouldn't get away with it for ever, and one mistake could be your last.
Here on the other hand, we can do these maneuvers over and over with out fear of the plane failing, nor, should we screw the pooch, dieing. HTC has used the data they think is most accurate and this is what we get. This being a game, people who CAN not or WILL not try to excel with training and skill instead look for the "short cuts" to get around that whole issue of "learning" and "practicing" to build a "skill". So instead of flying with a friend or two to create bigger buff groups that can protect each other they fly alone and count on ridiculous evasive maneuvers, or just don't care whether or not they get shot down as so use them as dive bombers and ground straffers.
This ..... many of us have more sorties under our belt the entire score of pilots of each country combined during the WWII days .... this combined with the lack of real death we can push the FM which is from what I can gather as close to the real parameters of each planes flight envelope as you can with 1's and 0's ...... had the pilots of the day had unlimited lives and planes I'm sure they would have been doing some of the so called Unrealistic' stuff we see in game .... not to mention that many would just get comfy and a feel for one particular plane type then get told no...that one is no good now...we have a bigger better one for you ....
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MA is for fun.
If you want less MA antics play in FSO or Scenario's. That's what they're for.
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In the last full tour, the B-17G in the LWA had 4316 kills and 12452 deaths, a ratio of .35 kills per death.
The B-24J had 3294 kills and 9699 kills, .34 kills per death.
The B-26B had 2038 kills and 6756 deaths, .30 kills per death.
The Ki-67 had 208 kills and 764 deaths, .27 kills per death.
The Lancaster Mk III had 3849 kills and 17743 deaths, .22 kills per death.
The Ju88A-4 had 440 kills and 3190 deaths, .14 kills per death.
The only bomber to get more kills than deaths was the massively perked B-29A which had 225 kills and 204 deaths. 1.10 kills per death.
None of those stats make me think bombers are racking up the kills or that they have excessive impact on the game.
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LOL Rap,
I agree 100%
You might get
"I shoot Doves" or "I like Lamb" though as an answer to a sincere question. :lol
Old Shark,
<S>======]----------------------------
PS. I always loved the swords
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If only the hordes were into bomber flying, I could call for an end to formations.
:rofl
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I dont think bombers have jumped the shark. I can say there have been some changes from when I played in 2k4 -2k8. The one thing that kills me is this.
1. IF you have not been in the military, then you most likely have no clue as to what you should expect out of the .50 cal. With that, if you dont know, dont speculate, and dont think that reading a book makes you an expert.
2. IF your going to attack a bomber, dont engage your tractor beam, and sit off my tail at 800 yds, and expect I cant kill you.... I CAN. With that, dont whine how the bombers are over modeled....your flying was under modeled...just sayin.
3. Bomber Pilots, TIP for you....Learn how to shoot at slashing aircraft....its not easy, but, with the right lead, you can kill. That top turret can be your friend.
Also, learn to shoot for yourselves. I know you cant shoot while your calibrating or dropping bombs, but, if you cant gun for yourself, dont expect another to gun for you and be alot of help.
I believe myself to be a descent bomber pilot, and have have my share of turret kills. There are some that are far better. One of the best tactics I have seen is this.... In stead of slashing, I had a 109k4 pull loops. They started off high and behind, built up his speed during the first run. Passed low and to my front extending about 1k to my front then pulling into a loop, when he came back down, this was his second attack...and continue this process till I was all dead....that was one of the best attacks I have seen.
Thats my two cents...
Twsted72
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What is asked is a clear statement of what kind of game is this
It is exactly what you make it. An environment, a sandbox, to do what you will in.
This game has more options in it than most players take advantage of. We each log in for our own reasons. To entertain ourselves. That means different things to different people. Anyone coming in with an expectation of what someone else should do is doomed to be disappointed and unhappy with the game play.
You have the main arena which by it's design is a free for all. Play for the benefit of teams, countries or your individual glory. You have the WW1 arenas, you have arenas that have limited plane sets to accommodate those who don't want to fly early war against late war, you have AvA arena, you have the entire broad brush of the CM's with the Scenarios, FSO, Snapshots, Races, and a multitude of specialized events.
What more would you like it to be when you can make it whatever you want?
At least, that is a clear statement of what this game is to me. Of course, with that, your original question and continued effort to get an answer is what makes the game go the way you want, and that's ok too :aok