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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Gorf on February 23, 2000, 01:19:00 PM

Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: Gorf on February 23, 2000, 01:19:00 PM
 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Hail all,
I am very excited that the Typhoon is coming in to help deal with vehicles but there is one plane that has not been mentioned.  The IL-2 Stormavik.  Probably the most infamous Ground attack aircraft of WWII.  With its ungodly weapon config and incredable armour, this was a feared weapon.  Granted it was a sitting duck but that is what cooperation is for.

Just my 2 cents.

Gorf
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: Vermillion on February 23, 2000, 03:03:00 PM
Sitting Duck is an understatement  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

If there is actually a plane that is slower, more slovenly, and poorer accelerating than the Stuka, its the IL-2.

If you want a Russian ground attack plane, ask for the P-63 KingCobra, it can survive in the arena in either A2A or A2G roles.

Just my opinon  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: leonid on February 23, 2000, 11:26:00 PM
With regards to Il-2 powerloading  wingloading versus the Ju-87:

Il-2 Tip 3 (introduced in mid 42):

Ju-87B-1:

The Il-2 may not have been an aerial stallion, but it had more punch to it than many would suspect.




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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)

"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: juzz on February 24, 2000, 07:09:00 AM
But by 1942 the Ju87D was the standard model of Stuka, with a more powerful 1400hp Jumo 211J-1 engine and better aerodynamics.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: Gorf on February 24, 2000, 07:31:00 AM
Thanks for input guys.  The Il-2 should still be considered maybe not now but later on.  The P-63 would be an excellent choice also.

Gorf
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: funked on February 24, 2000, 01:29:00 PM
Il-2 was faster than the Ju-87 I think.  Also it was far more resistant to gunfire.
Certainly Il-2 accounted for far more tanks and vehicles than the Typhoon.  However we need something to shoot at first!
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: funked on February 24, 2000, 01:31:00 PM
BTW, If you want to talk attack aircraft, the A-26B was the king.
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: RAM on February 24, 2000, 01:47:00 PM
If as "attack" you mean medium bomber, yes...but we already have B26...If you mean interdiction aircraft, the Typhoon and 190F/G series are the rulers, only surpassed by specialliced A/Cs as Hs129, Ju87G and IL2.

The Invader had no rockets, a battery of 12.7mm MGs that was not enough to destroy armored vehicles, and it was inteded mainly for level bomber, task that did very succesfully.
 IMO, now that we have B-17, B-26 and soon Lancaster, I'd like to see JU88, Ju87 and SM79...that way we,the JG-2 would be able to escort some Schlatchgeschwaders   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)

 (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-24-2000).]
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: Downtown on February 24, 2000, 02:56:00 PM
I would like the IL-2 also, but with the current ack, it is a doomed bird.  I have tried moving mud with the 1C from 15 K diving over target to 10 K before release, and I have managed to hit the airfield.

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Lincoln "Downtown" Brown.
 lkbrown1@tir.com  
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: funked on February 24, 2000, 10:21:00 PM
RAM, You underestimate the A-26B.  Not at all like the B-26.  

   (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a4/b26b-1.jpg)  

Solid nose, no bombsight other than an adjustable head on the reflector gun sight.  Some were built for level bombing (A-26C) but the B model was much more plentiful.

Early versions had a 75mm gun.

Late model loadout (pictured above):
Sixteen internal, foward-firing .50 in guns.
Ten 5" rockets.
Wing hardpoints for fuel tanks or 500 lb bombs.
Eight 500 lb internal bombs.


355 mph at 15000 feet using water injection (clean configuration).

Massive firepower, hard to intercept, hard to bring down.

Good info on the web:
 http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a4/a4-7.htm (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/attack/a4/a4-7.htm)
 http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/a26-03.html (http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/a26-03.html)

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-24-2000).]
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: leonid on February 24, 2000, 10:51:00 PM
Sorry guys, if there's a column of tanks with a couple M16 AA HT in tow, headed to F10 from the NE, then I want my NOE Il-2 Ilya  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)


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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)

"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: Westy on February 25, 2000, 07:57:00 AM
I'm with Leonid! I too want an IL2 and with PUNCH! (unlike brand A)

but...always with a fighter escort too! (gulp)

-Westy
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: RAM on February 25, 2000, 08:24:00 AM
cc, Funked...seems I was completely wrong. that plane seems to have a great punch!!!!...anyway I still don't know how useful were the12.7s vs armored targets, but 16 MGs firing...GLUPS I dont want to be in a truck under ***THAT*** thing  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)

(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: funked on February 25, 2000, 08:32:00 AM
RAM - I have heard a couple of accounts of Fifties being used against tanks but I doubt it.  But certainly they could take care of any other vehicle like a truck, halftrack, recon vehicle, etc.

For tanks you would have to use the bombs and rockets.

So we would also need the IL-2 or the Hs 129 as tank-killer gunship.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

You weren't completely wrong by the way.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: RAM on February 25, 2000, 09:05:00 AM
I have some reference about a P-47's 12.7mm MGs killin tanks...In a mission over France,a couple of P-47 dropped the bombs against a couple of Panthers with no effect (they missed) and had no rockets on board...the Panthers were on a paved road so the 47's dived on then and fired AFT of the tanks, hoping to make the shots rebound on the paved road and hit in the down side of the tanks. Both were put on fire and killed...

So the 12.7 sometimes proved useful   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) but that was only one time I have no more references of 12.7 tank kills...

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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)

 (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-25-2000).]
Title: Well the Typhoon is coming but what about the IL2
Post by: leonid on February 25, 2000, 09:18:00 AM
Loadouts possible for the Il-2:
The main armament of the Il-2 will be a pair of the VYa cannon, firing a 23mm shell of 200g mass (the Hispano 20mm has a 130g shell).  Also, the VYa has a muzzle velocity of 900m/s, and a cyclic rate of 500rpm.

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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)

"Our cause is just.  The enemy will be crushed.  Victory will be ours."