Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SmokinLoon on March 18, 2012, 09:43:51 AM
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The focus here is to give the Ju88's some attention. I think the Ju88's could use a tweak in its OBJ score, especially when it is compared to other bombers. First, some comparative OBJ scores:
Ju88: 11 (same as Ar234)
B17: 12
B24: 9
B26: 18
Manyof us know the Ju88 has the ability to carry more ordnance weight than the B17 (6600 lbs vs 6000 lbs). However, that can be very misleading. The Ju88's useful ordnance is in the 4/500 kg bombs (4400 lbs), the 20/50kg (20/110 lb) bombs it can carry can be useful in few ways, mostly by using them to carpet bomb a town but that requires multiple passes. Outside of the 600 more pounds of ordnance weight, the B17 is vastly superior to the Ju88 in every category. Range, speed, climb, defensive armament, useful bomb load, operating altitudes, and structural integrity all are drastically in favor of the B17.
The B26 is arguably a more effective bomber because again the effective bomb load is the same (4000 lbs vs 4400 lbs), speed, climb, range, defensive armament, and structural integrity are all vastly superior, and the B26 has an OBJ score of 18.
Yet, the B17 and B26 will earn more perk points for destroying/damaging the same amount of OBJects when compared to the Ju88. I would like to petition HTC to re-evaluate the OBJ of the Ju88 and give it a boost to perhaps 15 or so. Give the poor thing its due! :)
FYI: the OBJ score is a modifier (more/less than the standard 1.0) for how many perks you will earn. I do not know the exact formula, but compare the P51D with a standard 10 OBJ score to the Ju88 with a 11 OBJ score, the Ju88 will earn %10 more in perk points. Compare the B29 to that same P51D, and that will score about 1/3rd the perk points for destroying OBJ and causing damage. [OBJ = town buildings, ammo bunkers, radar, fuel tanks, barracks, hangers, ack guns, convoys, barges, etc)
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I don't think that speed, climb, guns, durability or range have any place in the OBJ calculation, those are all covered in the ENY. P-51D is a fighter and fighter OBJ may be considered differently than a bomber's OBJ.
That said, I agree that the Ju88's effective load is 4400lbs and it is likely that its OBJ should be in the 16-17 range.
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Have to +1 this and think that maybe Karnak the right number. In calculating the obj score for bombers I definitely think that the relative strength in other areas (speed, defensive firepower) should be considered just as much as bombload.
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In calculating the obj score for bombers I definitely think that the relative strength in other areas (speed, defensive firepower) should be considered just as much as bombload.
I can't agree with that. It would reduce variety as the only reason to take the Ki-67 is its OBJ coupled with its speed and guns.
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It is apparent to me that the OBJ score, like the ENY score, is a highly arbitrary number. If HTC has a base formula that they apply when assigning a value only they know it.
Even if the Ju88's 6600 lbs of ordnance weight is taken in to consideration, 2200 lbs of it is not usually dealt with in one drop, a guy cant even get the entire string of bombs on to a hanger or shore battery in 1 pass. So again, to make use of the 20/50kg bombs the Ju88 needs to make multiple passes and expose itself more so than the other bombers, typically. If the Ju88 is not armed with the 20/50kg bombs then it is nothing more than a slower in climb and speed, less defensively armed, and weaker structurally B26.
A bombers ability to destroy targets is not solely dependent on the amount of ordnance it can carry, imo. If the amount of time vested in getting to typical heavy bomber altitude, the speed it is able to travel, and the effectiveness in which it can defend itself is all at the bottom of the barrel on the comparison chart (heavy bombers), then the Ju88 is certainly not being given its due.
If HTC is trying to award more perk points to bombers/ground attack planes that possess challenging traits (as shown in the B5N, SBD, D3A, Boston III, G4M, etc), then the Ju88 certainly falls in line albeit on top of that pile. Regardless of the ENY/OBJ debate, I fail to see how the Ju88 earns fewer perk points than the B17 when it comes to bombing.
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The Ju88 could use some love, (especially since it's also a torpedo-plane role, but that might be OT).
German bombers overall currently need a lot of love (He-111. Ju-87s. Ju-88s. Ar234...... ..............)
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20x 50kg bombs on the Ju 88 - how shall this work ?
According to manuals you either have 10 of them in the rear bomb bay, 18 in the forward bomb bay or 28 in both.
No option for 1000kg bombs or the heavy load of 2x1000 + 2x500kg?
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The ord loadout will probably change when she get's updated (I hope). Till then, we are stuck with it. :(
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OBJ and ENY are way down on the list for many here.
First on the list is whether a plane is the correct job for the mission.
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moin
did someone sayed the ju 88 do have a weaker structur ? Compleatly doesn t agree. Its hard struckture is one of its best defens options. i will say after the ju87 the ju 88 is one of the strongest bombers in game.
for the taktikal use against a V-field for example the ju 88 is the best choise because you can easy kill 2 Vhs, 4 Vihicles and 4 Acks with its loadout. A B17 or B24 for example can t do it easy like that. And the better manöverability of the ju 88 helps for that job.
cu christian
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I think you are carrying forward with a lot of assumptions that are unknown quantities. Way back five or six years ago I thought I read that OBJ and ENY are adjusted according to use and success versus failure in the game. So possbily in order to reach true enlightenment on the subject you need to get with the guy that does the pie charts and see how things have proceeded over the years. I dont believe that one instance in time (meaning where we are today) can give a clear picture as to why things are the way they are. Instead you need the course of events and aircraft usage since each aircraft or vehicle was introduced.
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moin
did someone sayed the ju 88 do have a weaker structur ? Compleatly doesn t agree. Its hard struckture is one of its best defens options. i will say after the ju87 the ju 88 is one of the strongest bombers in game.
for the taktikal use against a V-field for example the ju 88 is the best choise because you can easy kill 2 Vhs, 4 Vihicles and 4 Acks with its loadout. A B17 or B24 for example can t do it easy like that. And the better manöverability of the ju 88 helps for that job.
cu christian
I like the 88's, personally. With it's current load out, I can take 7 hangers with no problems, even have a couple of bombs left over for an ord or guns. :aok She will also take one hell of a beating to boot. :D
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I like the 88's, personally. With it's current load out, I can take 7 hangers with no problems, even have a couple of bombs left over for an ord or guns. :aok She will also take one hell of a beating to boot. :D
Oh I'd like to see that. You carry enough ords for.... 4 hangers. 5 if you're good enough to go slow enough to drop enough of the 50kg bombs on top of the hangers. :aok
The Ju88 is tough in terms of being able to take G forces, but not in terms of being able to take enemy gun fire. She flames up almost as easy as the B24.
No matter how ya present it, it is leagues behind the B17 with exception is total bomb weight. In terms of useable bomb load, the Ju88 is 2k behind the B17.
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Oh I'd like to see that. You carry enough ords for.... 4 hangers. 5 if you're good enough to go slow enough to drop enough of the 50kg bombs on top of the hangers. :aok
The Ju88 is tough in terms of being able to take G forces, but not in terms of being able to take enemy gun fire. She flames up almost as easy as the B24.
No matter how ya present it, it is leagues behind the B17 with exception is total bomb weight. In terms of useable bomb load, the Ju88 is 2k behind the B17.
I've done it more than a few times, though I will admit that I have not done it in several months. It requires recalibration for each pass. Also, salvo 6 of the 50kg's will take a hanger, but not only does your calibration NEED be precise, but so does your drop, or you just create fancy puff/crater display on the ground. I've done this with a little alt, around 8-10k and at full speed. I would land 10-12k damage doing this and the perks weren't too bad to boot. It really isn't that hard to recreate, so unless there was a change in the bombs, you are just off on your drops. :aok
As for it's durability, not sure why she catches fire on you so easy. Sure you aren't stocking liquor instead of ammo and bombs. :D I use to fly her a lot, and I rarely caught fire nor have I found her ability to take punishment to be in question, which is why I flew her a lot. :D
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moin
i fly the ju88 alot, and i canot say that the ju 88 flames up almost as easy as the B24. mayby jes but because your bird are much smaler you got some oportuniti.
comparing b17 and ju88 is alidel bit hard. these birds are made in reality and in game for coplet diverent jobs and taktikal use.
if you fly a ju 88 as a you will fly a b17 she will be killed fast and easy. if you will fly a b17 like a ju 88 it is the same.
for me the ju88 is one of the best alaround bombers in game, i always use this bird. i only use sometimes other bombers if we do a long range attack on enemy strat targets and must fly very high, than the ju88 isn t a good choice. but for taktikal use against filds, ships, gvs... no other bomber can be evective like the ju88.
cu christian
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And the ju88 can dive bob putting 500 kg bombs very precisely where you want Em.
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I can see you all are misusing the JU88
It's most honorable roll in AH is to humiliate spitfires :aok :O
The only thing it requires is a reasonably effectictive forward firing gun!
:pray :pray
JUGgler
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The Ju88 is helpless meat to any Spitfire that is not incompetently flown. All the Spitfire has to do is take the fight up.
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They had some sort of night-time bomber-killer version with an upward-firing cannon....t'would be fun to play with
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Has my vote :aok