Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Rich52 on March 19, 2012, 05:59:49 PM
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Want to get players out of P-51s? Run-90s? LA's? Spixteens? and into the rest of the plane set?
Then perk em! There, Ive said it.
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for once I agree that sheep could possibly make gameplay more interesting.
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I really don't think HTC wants to get people out of those planes. If they didn't not want people flying them they would just not put them in the game originally.
The reason why we perk planes is because they are much better than all the others and not because people fly them a lot.
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Want to get players out of P-51s? Run-90s? LA's? Spixteens? and into the rest of the plane set?
Then perk em! There, Ive said it.
Better yet, learn ACM and tactics and you won't need to perk those planes you mentioned.
ack-ack
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Better yet, learn ACM and tactics and you won't need to perk those planes you mentioned.
ack-ack
:aok :rofl
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Want to get players out of P-51s? Run-90s? LA's? Spixteens? and into the rest of the plane set?
Then perk em! There, Ive said it.
Why are we trying to get the new players out of planes that might make the steep learning curve a little more fun for them?
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Had to check the OP date..
We endured this same subject 6 - 10 years or so ago, didn't we?
And by that, I mean, All throughout the 6 - 10 years ago.. lol
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If i can die in the 51D it's not worth the perk.. granted i die in tempests too but this is a different discussion :ahand
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They don't need to be perked, they need their ENY lowered so the least bit of imbalance shuts 'em down, especially the la7, P51D, and Spit16.
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They don't need to be perked, they need their ENY lowered so the least bit of imbalance shuts 'em down, especially the la7, P51D, and Spit16.
all three to be used correctly need a bit of skill to pull off. they dont need anything done to them. ive killed many a spit16 and la7 because of noob flyers
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hate the la7 :bhead
just sayn' :lol
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the only thing I would ask to change - and this is what Karnak was saying awhile ago is to take 1000x2 bomb load away and force non attack dedicated planes to use 500s. And sure, the running high speed stuff is annoying for sure, but no matter what, there will always be a fastest non-perked plane, and no matter what, there will always be a range of options there. But the 51 with its 1000 pounders is a bit off. . .
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the only thing I would ask to change - and this is what Karnak was saying awhile ago is to take 1000x2 bomb load away and force non attack dedicated planes to use 500s. And sure, the running high speed stuff is annoying for sure, but no matter what, there will always be a fastest non-perked plane, and no matter what, there will always be a range of options there. But the 51 with its 1000 pounders is a bit off. . .
I think that's okay. Their significantly slower while carrying the 2X1000lb so it doesn't bother me.
Plus I don't think that change would do anything. You can still dogfight in attack mode so if all I needed to do in order to take a fast plane with lots of ord was click the attack button then I would have no problem doing it.
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I think that's okay. Their significantly slower while carrying the 2X1000lb so it doesn't bother me.
Plus I don't think that change would do anything. You can still dogfight in attack mode so if all I needed to do in order to take a fast plane with lots of ord was click the attack button then I would have no problem doing it.
No, my suggestion was to perk the 1000lb bombs on things like the F4Us, F6F-5, Fw190s other than the Fw190F-8, P-51D and Typhoon. Maybe the P-47s too. Clicking the Attack button wouldn't make the bombs available. Dedicated attackers would be things like the P-38s, Bf110s and Fw190F-8.
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I say turn their ENY down to 2.0. More perks for me when I kill them. :D
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No, my suggestion was to perk the 1000lb bombs on things like the F4Us, F6F-5, Fw190s other than the Fw190F-8, P-51D and Typhoon. Maybe the P-47s too. Clicking the Attack button wouldn't make the bombs available. Dedicated attackers would be things like the P-38s, Bf110s and Fw190F-8.
Oh that's a different story.
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I am of the opinion that the ENY's are right where they should be based on usage and kills associated with each of the aircraft in the entire inventory. In the past HTC has edited ENY for certain planes based on the effect they are having on the game and will do so again I am sure. So all is as it should be... :aok
Now perking ords, I am still thinking about... :headscratch:
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No, my suggestion was to perk the 1000lb bombs on things like the F4Us, F6F-5, Fw190s other than the Fw190F-8, P-51D and Typhoon. Maybe the P-47s too. Clicking the Attack button wouldn't make the bombs available. Dedicated attackers would be things like the P-38s, Bf110s and Fw190F-8.
I like this.
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I think they need ENY lowered and at least a perk cost of 2
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perk them all! then everyone will fly the P47M and the 109K4, big improvement! :bhead
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perk them all! then everyone will fly the P47M and the 109K4, big improvement! :bhead
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooo... *gasp*...oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Just bring the ENY down so I can perk farm more. :)
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Just bring the ENY down so I can perk farm more. :)
Well landing <10 perks for a double digit sortie in a P51D is low enough IMO
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all three to be used correctly need a bit of skill to pull off. they dont need anything done to them. ive killed many a spit16 and la7 because of noob flyers
That isnt the problem. The problem is the ability of those three aircraft are clearly ahead of other contemporary planes. Forget the players who fly them, new players or not, plenty of vets and "high ranking" players rely on these crutch aircraft for ranking purposes.
It is the ability of the aircraft that gives it the ENY score (arbitrated by HTC), not the player.
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A spit16 perk makes sense when you compare it the spit14
but a P51D compared to a P47M? a la7 compared to a 109K4?
the 190D is good but nowhere near godlike
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That isnt the problem. The problem is the ability of those three aircraft are clearly ahead of other contemporary planes. Forget the players who fly them, new players or not, plenty of vets and "high ranking" players rely on these crutch aircraft for ranking purposes.
It is the ability of the aircraft that gives it the ENY score (arbitrated by HTC), not the player.
you misunderstand me. all three to be used effectively need a bit of skill. unlike in a tempest which u can dive in a 600mph and have the plane push itself back up with no compression problems and 4 20mm hizookas that with a few well placed rounds will take down any aircraft. even the spit14 when used properly at altitude is a helluva plane to reckon with. this conversation should be about lowering the perk of the spit14 and not lowering the eny or perking said 3 rides. put a new player in a tempest and then a 51. see which he lands kills in very easily and which he dies in more often. a spit 16 is very easily outflown and i only have trouble in my 51 against a veteran in a spit 16. the La7 also can be very easily beaten unless the pilot with the higher skill flies the lala also and so said with the 51 too. none of them need to be lower eny theyre perfect as is.
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Well landing <10 perks for a double digit sortie in a P51D is low enough IMO
less than 10? you serious? i have landed less than 4 for 10 kills :rofl. and I couldnt care less if it was less than 1 as I fly it because i have fun in it. besides i have enough perks that I dont use to even consider upping a plane just based on what perks it gives me. it's like score.
semp
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you guys complaining, you dont get perks for 10 kills?
stop flying ponies, start flying 109s, ki84s, spit9s, you will get 10+ for 2 spixteens.
you cant pick n run in the planes i named above? sorry...
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you guys complaining, you dont get perks for 10 kills?
stop flying ponies, start flying 109s, ki84s, spit9s, you will get 10+ for 2 spixteens.
you cant pick n run in the planes i named above? sorry...
who's complaining?
semp
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I dont think perking aircraft will get people to stop flying them, just increase the probability that the pilot will only fight on his/her terms and therefore exacerbate the cry against "runstangs" 'n such.
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ponys 190s and LAs arent a problem in the MA even in my 38 the 16 tho it should be perked why is the spit 14 perked but not the 16 when its the most difficult plane to fly against in the MA...just perk it like a Chog not really high just make people pay for a plane that needs to be slightly perked my 2 cents
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Better yet, learn ACM and tactics and you won't need to perk those planes you mentioned.
ack-ack
Crazy talk... ackack is crazy.
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ponys 190s and LAs arent a problem in the MA even in my 38 the 16 tho it should be perked why is the spit 14 perked but not the 16 when its the most difficult plane to fly against in the MA...just perk it like a Chog not really high just make people pay for a plane that needs to be slightly perked my 2 cents
Holy run-on sentence, Batman!
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+1! Perk em! I hate run-stangs
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They don't need to be perked, they need their ENY lowered so the least bit of imbalance shuts 'em down, especially the la7, P51D, and Spit16.
Then everyone will fly the 20 ENY Luftwobble wonder twins..what's the difference?
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The reason why we perk planes is because they are much better than all the others and not because people fly them a lot.
So the implication is if the 262 or C-Hog wasn't perked is people people still wouldn't fly them a lot? And by "much better" dont you simply mean "faster"?
Makes a lot of sense Machfly. :huh
Why are we trying to get the new players out of planes that might make the steep learning curve a little more fun for them?
Because "Running" isn't learning. Besides if there was some better formula for controlling the vast hordes of only a a models then the introduction of the "niche" planes would be more worthwhile. And maybe this would become less of a Horde game and one where ECM actually mattered
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Because "Running" isn't learning. Besides if there was some better formula for controlling the vast hordes of only a a models then the introduction of the "niche" planes would be more worthwhile. And maybe this would become less of a Horde game and one where ECM actually mattered
Spitfire Mk XVI's, the primary target of this whine, are not good at running.
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Spitfire Mk XVI's, the primary target of this whine, are not good at running.
Yes they are. They run going straight up. ;)
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So the implication is if the 262 or C-Hog wasn't perked is people people still wouldn't fly them a lot? And by "much better" dont you simply mean "faster"?
Makes a lot of sense Machfly. :huh
Because "Running" isn't learning. Besides if there was some better formula for controlling the vast hordes of only a a models then the introduction of the "niche" planes would be more worthwhile. And maybe this would become less of a Horde game and one where ECM actually mattered
Machfly is correct, perks are based on the impact the plane/vehicle has on game play and not on usage.
So, please tell us how those planes you mentioned cause an imbalance in the game play that they need to be perked.
ack-ack
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Unperk the Spit14 and Perk the Spit16.
Spit16 does everything. Climb? Check. Speed? Check. Firepower? Check. Roll rate? Check. Turn rate? Check. A light perk of 10 is fine with me. Put two pilots of equal skill, one in a Spit16, one in a La7/K4/P51/Tempest and the spit16 wins everytime. The only plane that poses a serious threat to a spit16 (at least 1v1), is a F4U4. Spit16 outperforms every single plane but one.
Not whining here, just stating facts. Anything a Spit16 can't outturn, it can out-E fight, and vice versa.
With the La-7 and P51, their only real strength is sheer speed which can be used to escape any situation. Their maneuverability is easily matched by most planes or even outclassed.
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you misunderstand me. all three to be used effectively need a bit of skill. unlike in a tempest which u can dive in a 600mph and have the plane push itself back up with no compression problems and 4 20mm hizookas that with a few well placed rounds will take down any aircraft. even the spit14 when used properly at altitude is a helluva plane to reckon with. this conversation should be about lowering the perk of the spit14 and not lowering the eny or perking said 3 rides. put a new player in a tempest and then a 51. see which he lands kills in very easily and which he dies in more often. a spit 16 is very easily outflown and i only have trouble in my 51 against a veteran in a spit 16. the La7 also can be very easily beaten unless the pilot with the higher skill flies the lala also and so said with the 51 too. none of them need to be lower eny theyre perfect as is.
The Tempest is more of a challenge to fly than the P51D. The P51D is far more forgiving and more versatile. The Tempest if fast, sure. It hits hard, sure. But it inst the most maneuverable plane out there. A new guy is going to have an easier time in the P51D, imo. The Tempest isn't a plane to hop in to a just fly. The P51D is. In the Tempest, managing the torque, right turn, rudder, and raw speed isn't a beginners treat, it has more quirks than the pony. The P51D can go either way and is far more stable (forgiving). In the hands of a vet, sure the edge goes to the Tempest. Matter of opinion, I know.
I like the self scoring on how you defeat other aircraft. Remove the pilot, compare the actual ability of the aircraft then the "newb" variable is non-existant. Take each category for what it is worth. The La7 is a better bomber interceptor/hunter (especially low level) than either the P51D or Spit16. The P51D is better at escort duty and ground pounding. The Spit16 is more capable at dogfighter than either the La7 or P51D, both find themselves out-turned, out rolled, and out-climbed, and will eventually have to run like they always do but even then the Spit16 can hang with them for a bit because it accelerates and retains E very well.
Lastly, I wont argue that the Spit14 needs its perk reduced. There are a whole host of aircraft that needs to be checked both in ENY and perk price. The list is getting too crowded at 25+ ENY, and too few down low, IMO. Start down low at 2 ENY, bring some of the 15 ENY down to 12, etc etc. Space 'em out a bit more.
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Unperk the Spit14 and Perk the Spit16.
Spit16 does everything. Climb? Check. Speed? Check. Firepower? Check. Roll rate? Check. Turn rate? Check. A light perk of 10 is fine with me. Put two pilots of equal skill, one in a Spit16, one in a La7/K4/P51/Tempest and the spit16 wins everytime. The only plane that poses a serious threat to a spit16 (at least 1v1), is a F4U4. Spit16 outperforms every single plane but one.
No, spit16 is rather slow. Sure it does most of the things good but it's bag at high altitude, is slow in general, and does not have much fuel.
The reason why most people don't understand why spit14 is perked is because most people don't know how to fly it. Think of it this way, spit14 is a Spitfire that's faster than a P-51.
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No, spit16 is rather slow.
the spit16 is one of the fastest accelerating planes.
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the spit16 is one of the fastest accelerating planes.
I never said anything about it's acceleration. Sure it accelerates fast and that's an advantage but the only thing you'll be able to do with that acceleration is regain your energy because soon it will stop accelerating and then most likely the red guy will catch up.
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spit16 does 344 on the deck
same as the p38L/J, the D-jugs, 109G2
only only 6 mph slower than the B-pony, La-5, 109G14
in the same time, it climbs just as good as the k4, turns like crazy, very steady even at very low speeds (cant be roped, good in the scissors), rolls like a 190, accelerates like a tempest up to 250mph, still in par with the k4 up to 300, also can reach 450-470 in a dive, has uber cannons... training wheels.
Im against to perk them, they fly timid enough already... doh
:bhead
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I never said anything about it's acceleration. Sure it accelerates fast and that's an advantage but the only thing you'll be able to do with that acceleration is regain your energy because soon it will stop accelerating and then most likely the red guy will catch up.
The thing about the Spit16 is that while it isnt a speed demon from 0 to 350 TAS down low, all it needs is a wee bit of nose down to gain that much more momentum to hang with the speed demons for a bit. More than once a Spit16 has fallen in my 6 while I was in a P51, Dora, P47x, or other such "faster" plane and the Spit16 simply hangs with me for quite a bit even though the stated speed is well below what the charts say. The Spit 16 is faster than many give it credit for, the charts do not tell the entire story, they never do.
The term "slow" can not be applied to the Spit16 is any manner. When gauging it speed from 0-max @ altitude it still ranks well above average in terms of LW arena planes. There are very few planes than can actually run away from it in the short term.
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The thing about the Spit16 is that while it isnt a speed demon from 0 to 350 TAS down low, all it needs is a wee bit of nose down to gain that much more momentum to hang with the speed demons for a bit. More than once a Spit16 has fallen in my 6 while I was in a P51, Dora, P47x, or other such "faster" plane and the Spit16 simply hangs with me for quite a bit even though the stated speed is well below what the charts say. The Spit 16 is faster than many give it credit for, the charts do not tell the entire story, they never do.
The term "slow" can not be applied to the Spit16 is any manner. When gauging it speed from 0-max @ altitude it still ranks well above average in terms of LW arena planes. There are very few planes than can actually run away from it in the short term.
Most of the Spit16 are found on the deck as that's where they perform the best, at that point you usually can't dive. If you compare the Spit16 at altitude than it should have an ENY of 15 or 20 as it really doesn't handle well up high.
Spit16 might be able to accelerate to it's top speed fast but because it's top speed is slow it will stop accelerating soon, at which point the guy that's chasing you will easily catch up.
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spit16 does 344 on the deck
same as the p38L/J, the D-jugs, 109G2
only only 6 mph slower than the B-pony, La-5, 109G14
I'm not sure if I understand what your trying to prove. Are you saying that the Spit16 is slow or fast? Because your comparing a 5 ENY plane to 20 ENY planes and saying that Spit16 is fast. Let's compare the Spit16 to other 5 ENY planes, then it will look slow.
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some people said the spit16 is slow.
Well lets compare it to low eny planes:
pony: eny5, does 363 on the deck, 20 more than the spix, but the spix gets it in 1 turn also climbs a lot better
chog: perked to 15. Only 7-8mph faster than the spit16, but accelerates and climbs very slowly. Also the spix has much better maneuverability. Can dive very well and has 900 rounds of 20mm tho.
4hog: perked to 20. Very strong all around aircraft, its real hard (next to inpossible) to beat a well flown one.
spit14: perked to 10. much faster than the spit16 but a pig and cant turnfight well. I would compare it to the 109K, whats eny20. But thats an other topic
La-7: eny8, much faster than the spit, accelerates the same up to 300mph tho.
Niki: eny8, slower than the spix, turns/rolls/climbs worse, but has big guns.
The spix is not slow. If youre used to the ponies, yea you cant play the endless pick n run chicken cheit game in it (at least not as easily). But with a small alt advantage, it can catch anything.
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,318203.0.html
still whining i see.
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,318203.0.html
still whining i see.
:rofl
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Ok.. wasted about 20 minutes of my life in search of...
The first 'Perk the LA-7' thread!!
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,1013.0.html
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,318203.0.html
still whining i see.
:rofl
ack-ack
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Perk everything but the Corsair.
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some people said the spit16 is slow.
Well lets compare it to low eny planes:
pony: eny5, does 363 on the deck, 20 more than the spix, but the spix gets it in 1 turn also climbs a lot better
chog: perked to 15. Only 7-8mph faster than the spit16, but accelerates and climbs very slowly. Also the spix has much better maneuverability. Can dive very well and has 900 rounds of 20mm tho.
4hog: perked to 20. Very strong all around aircraft, its real hard (next to inpossible) to beat a well flown one.
spit14: perked to 10. much faster than the spit16 but a pig and cant turnfight well. I would compare it to the 109K, whats eny20. But thats an other topic
La-7: eny8, much faster than the spit, accelerates the same up to 300mph tho.
Niki: eny8, slower than the spix, turns/rolls/climbs worse, but has big guns.
The spix is not slow. If youre used to the ponies, yea you cant play the endless pick n run chicken cheit game in it (at least not as easily). But with a small alt advantage, it can catch anything.
I say those numbers show a pretty big difference. Also if you look at the numbers at 5K the difference will be even greater.
BTW I disagree what you said about the 14, it can out turn a lot of planes and those that it can't out turn it can easily out run.