Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: caldera on March 19, 2012, 06:37:41 PM
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What is the point on a submarine that depth is measured from?
- Top of conning tower?
- Top of hull?
- Bottom of hull?
- Top of mast?
- Ship's center mass?
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What is the point on a submarine that depth is measured from?
- Top of conning tower?
- Top of hull?
- Bottom of hull?
- Top of mast?
- Ship's center mass?
I think it's in reference to normal surface floatation (i.e., zero means you have fully blown balast and are on the surface). I don't know this for sure, though -- it's based on recollections (and perhaps through time fuzzy recollections) of reading accounts of submarine warfare. It's not top of conning tower or top of mast, as I've read of subs being taken to 30 feet (or whatever) for periscope work.
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Lowest point on the keel I believe. This would make sense since marine maps are showing you the depth until you hit bottom.
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Lowest point on the keel I believe. This would make sense since marine maps are showing you the depth until you hit bottom.
That does seem right but wondered how many different answers I might get from asking here. Thank you sirs.
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All submarine depths are "Keel Depth".....
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On a side note: My parents just had there 65th anniversary. They took out there memorabilia , I never had seen it, but dad has the flag flown on his subs the USS Carbonara maiden war patrol in 1 945.
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On a side note: My parents just had there 65th anniversary. They took out there memorabilia , I never had seen it, but dad has the flag flown on his subs the USS Carbonara maiden war patrol in 1 945.
Pictures please :)
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On a side note: My parents just had there 65th anniversary. They took out there memorabilia , I never had seen it, but dad has the flag flown on his subs the USS Carbonara maiden war patrol in 1 945.
Congrats on your parents!
any pics of the Carbonara?
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Lowest point on the keel I believe. This would make sense since marine maps are showing you the depth until you hit bottom.
That does make sense...but periscope depth from what I've heard is way to shallow for that to mean keel. Maybe depth is related to function, and is not a single standard? or there are separate definations on a sub for depth, depending on what is desired? my neighbor served on the USS Greenville? (I'm not 100% it was that boat) as a navigator, I'll ask him, I assume he can answer the question definitively.
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On a side note: My parents just had there 65th anniversary. They took out there memorabilia , I never had seen it, but dad has the flag flown on his subs the USS Carbonara maiden war patrol in 1 945.
I think that sub was sunk off Pearl Harbor in 1975, I was going to take a dive down to the sub few years back when my father did scuba diving, I never got certified for the deep sea dive though and didn't go.
if im not mistaken it was the USS Carbonero, a Balao class.
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(http://www.wrecksite.eu/img/wrecks/uss_carbonero.jpg)
(USS Carbonero, from wrecksite)
The colors show the 48 star layout, so perhaps this photo was from the war.
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On a side note: My parents just had there 65th anniversary. They took out there memorabilia , I never had seen it, but dad has the flag flown on his subs the USS Carbonara maiden war patrol in 1 945.
Whoa. You're dad was a submariner?
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On a side note: My parents just had there 65th anniversary. They took out there memorabilia , I never had seen it, but dad has the flag flown on his subs the USS Carbonara maiden war patrol in 1 945.
That's very cool, but why would they name a sub after a spaghetti dish? ;)
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Yep, very cool. Thanks for posting, HiTech.
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(http://www.wrecksite.eu/img/wrecks/uss_carbonero.jpg)
(USS Carbonero, from wrecksite)
The colors show the 48 star layout, so perhaps this photo was from the war.
Not with that sail mod.
(http://www.usscarbonero.com/swimn16r.jpg)
Nov. 27, 1945
Carbonero (SS-337) was launched 19 October 1944 by Electric Boat Co., Groton, Conn., sponsored by Mrs. S S. Murray and commissioned 7 February 1945, Commander C. L. Murphy in command.
Sailing from New London 21 March 1945, Carbonero served with the Fleet Sonar School at Key West, and conducted torpedo exercises at Balboa, C.Z., before arriving at Pearl Harbor 9 May. Her first war patrol conducted off Formosa from 26 May to 8 July, was devoted to lifeguard duty, standing by for possible rescue of aviators downed in carrier strikes. After refitting at Subic Bay, Carbonero cleared for the Gulf of Siam on 4 August, and cruising off the east coast of the Malay Peninsula, sank four schooners, two sampans, and two junks, some of the small remnants of the Japanese merchant fleet. This second war patrol ended with the cease fire order on 15 August, and Carbonero put back to Subic Bay.
Carbonero reported at Seattle, Wash., 22 September 1945 for operations on the west coast. After a simulated war patrol to the Far East early in 1947, she was assigned to the guided missile program, as a control vessel operating out of San Diego and Port Hueneme, Calif. Fitted to launch missiles in May 1949, and with a snorkel in 1951, Carbonero operated off Southern California, and occasionally in the Hawaiian Islands. From 1952 to 1957, the submarine performed important service in the evaluation of the "Regulus" missile. On 13 May 1957, her home port shifted to Pearl Harbor. From this base she made an Arctic familiarization cruise in 1957; and in 1958 and 1959-60, cruised to the Far East. She assisted in the training of forces of the Republic of Korea and of Japan, and called at ports of Japan and the Philippines during those deployments.
Carbonero received one battle star for service in World War II. One of her two war patrols was designated as "successful."
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Some Later History
The USS Carbonero SS337 was a typical World War II type diesel submarine that was later modernized and equipped with a streamlined superstructure and a snorkle. Her keel was laid at Electric Boat in Groton, Connecticut on December 16, 1943. She was launched on October 15, 1944, and commissioned on February 7, 1945. During the remaining months of World War II Carbonero participated in two successful war patrols. No major Japanese shipping was sighted in either the Gulf of Siam or the Formosan waters patrolled but a number of smaller craft were destroyed by Carbonero with gunfire.
When the war ended Carbonero was ordered to Seattle, Washington for training and upkeep. In the following months she participated in a variety of operations including two trips to the Orient.
In April 1947, Carbonero was ordered into the Submarine Guided Missile Program, joining her sister ship the USS Cusk SS348. Carbonero was fitted with control equipment which enabled her to guide a missile once is passed beyond the range of the firing ship. She performed in various phases of this program including the launching of Loon missiles and the evaluation of Regulus guidance equipment.
Late in 1951 Carbonero entered the Mare Island Naval shipyard and was converted to a streamlined snorkle equipped submarine. A snorkle is a retractable breathing tube that permits a submarine to take in and exhaust fresh air while submerged. This allows the ship to operate her diesel engines and to receive fresh air for prolonged periods while underwater.
In 1953 guidance equipment for the Regulus I was installed so Carbonero could perform as a control platform.
In May 1957 the Carbonero was transferred to Pearl Harbor where she became a part of Submarine Division 91. During July 1959, Submarine Division 91 was dissolved and Carbonero became the flagship of Submarine Division 12. From that time forward Carbonero took part in local operations in Hawaiian waters plus deployments to the Western Pacific, trips to the South Pacific and mainland United States.
Early in 1962 the Regulus missile guidance equipment was removed from Carbonero returning her to the standard "Fleet Snorkle" (GUPPY) configuration.
Carbonero participated in the 1962 Nuclear Tests in the Central Pacific off Christmas Island and Johnston Island entitled “Operation Dominic.” She specifically was on hand for the detonation of a warhead from a Polaris missile fired from the USS Ethan Allen SSBN608. Carbonero and the USS Medregal SS480 were at a range of about 30 miles from the detonation.
During the Vietnam War she again performed aviator lifeguard duties during trips to the Far East.
The USS Carbonero was decommissioned on December 1, 1970. On April 27, 1975, she was taken to sea for one last time and used as a test target for a Mark 48 torpedo fired by the USS Pogy SSN647. The Carbonero rests in Hawaiian waters at a depth of 2340 fathoms.
The USS Carbonero was 311 feet long and 27 feet wide with a displacement of 1880 tons. Her normal peacetime complement was eight officers and seventy-four enlisted men.
http://www.usscarbonero.com/index-page2.html
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That's very cool, but why would they name a sub after a spaghetti dish? ;)
Well clueless because the USN named their subs after fish, in this case. Carbonero is a a salt-water fish found in the West Indies.
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By the way, for folks interested in recommendations for books on WWII submarine activity, I thought that The Bravest Man, by Tuohy and Silent Running, by Calvert were excellent.
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Well clueless because the USN named their subs after fish, in this case. Carbonero is a a salt-water fish found in the West Indies.
... USS Carbonara ...
And in there lies the joke, clueless.
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It is keel depth when operating. When moored however the deepest point is the bottom of the rudder on modern US boats (ie: draft) and is measured by white painted draft readings on the forward edge of the upper rudder which sticks up above the water.
V/R and <S>, LTARjink
(active USN sub service LT)
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The USS Carbonero was decommissioned on December 1, 1970. On April 27, 1975, she was taken to sea for one last time and used as a test target for a Mark 48 torpedo fired by the USS Pogy SSN647. The Carbonero rests in Hawaiian waters at a depth of 2340 fathoms.
that deep? wasn't the ship I was going to dive on then, mine rests at some 140 feet of water :uhoh
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That does make sense...but periscope depth from what I've heard is way to shallow for that to mean keel.
Keel depth always. There are several depths that are of major concern for a submarine and each varies from class to class. Test depth for certain (max normal operating depth), the depth in which you broach the sail making the submarine visible to radar and visual contacts, periscope depth(most masts and antennas also work at periscope depth with the exception of the induction mast that takes sea conditions into account), and the depth at which you can efficiently dewater the ship in the event of flooding.
Some other tidbits for you: any tank exposed to sea pressure is considered a hard tank and can be pumped to sea at any depth, but under normal operating conditions for safety reasons normal ship keeping functions are restricted to shallower depths. Trim tanks, depth control tanks, and aux ballast tanks are hard tanks pumped to and from to balance the ship and fine tune bouyancy. Main ballast tanks are not exposed to sea pressure since they are open to the sea at the bottom of the ship at all times. Trash is compacted and weighted, then put in a mini tube and flooded to sea. Sanitary tanks on my boat were pressurized with air and blown to sea.
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...don't ever flush if you see bubbles coming up from the bottom of the bowl !!!
:cool:
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That is very cool HT,
A present for you if you have never seen it.
http://issuu.com/hnsa/docs/ss-337_carbonero?mode=a_p
Some of these reports are far far better then fiction.
http://hnsa.org/doc/subreports.htm
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That is very cool HT,
A present for you if you have never seen it.
http://issuu.com/hnsa/docs/ss-337_carbonero?mode=a_p
Some of these reports are far far better then fiction.
http://hnsa.org/doc/subreports.htm
Thanks pongo, I nor my dad had seen those docs.
HiTech
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HiTech, I was browsing through WWII Database color shots and stumbled upon this:
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/ship_carbonero11.jpg)
From the periscope of the Carbonero during "Operation Dominic".
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That's what the screen door is for.
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Very cool
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:aok :huh :aok :huh :aok :huh :aok :huh