Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: lyric1 on March 21, 2012, 06:09:49 AM

Title: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: lyric1 on March 21, 2012, 06:09:49 AM
I noticed on a web site a couple of photos that showed how the tail of the I-16 is slightly askew to counteract the torque of the engine.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/I-16%20Russian/i-162-1.jpg)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/I-16%20Russian/i-163.jpg)

Our AHII I-16 has not the same type of arrangement.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/I-16%20Russian/i-161.jpg)



(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/I-16%20Russian/i-16.jpg)


Is ours incorrect or just a different model that is straight?

Is the AHII I-16 flight model correct to the shape of the bent tail if the bent tail is correct?

Just a few questions that popped to mind.

Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: MAINER on March 21, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
good question...  :headscratch:
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Rob52240 on March 21, 2012, 01:20:25 PM
Well it was made in the Soviet Union.

Will Hayden on Sons Of Guns says he's put together a lot of Russian gun kits, and he's never seen 2 that are completely identical.
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: tunnelrat on March 21, 2012, 02:22:40 PM

Will Hayden on Sons Of Guns says he's put together a lot of Russian gun kits, and he's never seen 2 that are completely identical.


American components... Russian components...
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Tec on March 21, 2012, 02:49:27 PM
All made in Taiwan...
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: colmbo on March 21, 2012, 04:52:03 PM
It's common for aircraft to have built in asymmetry to compensate for flight conditions.  Take a close look at a Cessna 172 and you can see the dorsal slightly offset to counter slipstream effect.  Normally the "tweak" is tuned for a cruise power/speed condition -- outside of that and you'll need trim to compensate.

As for in game....any offset you could see in the game would just be an artwork thing to appease the viewer.  Our cartoon airplanes do not actually fly thru air, the aerodynamics is handled by code.  The artwork could show an elephant but it would still fly the same.
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Ardy123 on March 21, 2012, 05:15:58 PM
All made in Taiwan...

hey man, that was last year... the child labor there is too expensive now.... Vietnam & Laos here we come!
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: PFactorDave on March 21, 2012, 05:16:22 PM
The artwork could show an elephant but it would still fly the same.

Or a shark with a frikkin laser on its head.
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: FLS on March 21, 2012, 05:37:46 PM
The artwork could show an elephant but it would still fly the same.

In theory you're correct but come on, if the artwork showed an elephant, Hitech would calculate the ear area, musculature, average conditioning, total mass, drag, tail and trunk moments, methane ejection etc and it would fly exactly like an elephant within the constraints of our hardware.  :neener:
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Ardy123 on March 21, 2012, 06:13:44 PM
In theory you're correct but come on, if the artwork showed an elephant, Hitech would calculate the ear area, musculature, average conditioning, total mass, drag, tail and trunk moments, methane ejection etc and it would fly exactly like an elephant within the constraints of our hardware.  :neener:

Dumbo was better than levi.
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: GNucks on March 21, 2012, 07:08:48 PM
I stuck a piece of gum to the side of my plane when I was done chewing it and it didn't fly right for the rest of the sortie.
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: lyric1 on March 21, 2012, 07:31:27 PM
I stuck a piece of gum to the side of my plane when I was done chewing it and it didn't fly right for the rest of the sortie.



Yep it happens.  :D

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/AmeliaEarhart.jpg)
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Wmaker on March 21, 2012, 08:57:46 PM
Amelia Earhart and a Pitcairn autogiro?

Funny how I hadn't noticed that feature in the I-16 and I've looked at that thing many times and walked past it many times more. :o As colmbo said there are many aircraft with similar design features. For example Fokker D.VII has its horizontal stab slightly tilted when looking from above and Macchis had their right wing slightly shorter than the left.

Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: lyric1 on March 21, 2012, 09:12:59 PM
Amelia Earhart and a Pitcairn autogiro?



http://www.gyroplanepassion.com/Amelia_Earhart.html
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Wmaker on March 21, 2012, 09:15:01 PM
http://www.gyroplanepassion.com/Amelia_Earhart.html

Yeh! :) What a gem that restored Miss Champion is! :)
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Charge on March 22, 2012, 04:52:10 AM
I recall that also 109's and Hurris's vertical stabs are asymmetric, not sure about Spitfire.

-C+
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: FLS on March 22, 2012, 07:06:41 AM
If you fly an I-16 straight, power off, in an auto pilot mode, won't the rudder position tell you if the auto pilot has to compensate for any offset in the vertical stabilizer modeling? 
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Charge on March 22, 2012, 08:39:13 AM
All our planes fly differently than the real ones. In both 109 and Spitty you had to press the rudder pedal to get the plane to fly straight in high speed. All we have now is the rolling tendency due to engine torque. Such realism would not be too pleasant in a sim even if the pedal pressure is much less than in the real thing.

-C+
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: FLS on March 22, 2012, 09:04:35 AM
I don't believe that means they fly differently, perhaps you mean that flying them in real life is different?  We just have trim options that they lacked which reduce the pilot workload.
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: hitech on March 22, 2012, 09:30:48 AM
It's common for aircraft to have built in asymmetry to compensate for flight conditions.  Take a close look at a Cessna 172 and you can see the dorsal slightly offset to counter slipstream effect.  Normally the "tweak" is tuned for a cruise power/speed condition -- outside of that and you'll need trim to compensate.

As for in game....any offset you could see in the game would just be an artwork thing to appease the viewer.  Our cartoon airplanes do not actually fly thru air, the aerodynamics is handled by code.  The artwork could show an elephant but it would still fly the same.

Most of our flight models have offsets built into many different places. Like wing twist , vstab and hstab offsets. But as you say ,the visual shape could be an elephant and it would fly the same.

HiTech
Title: Re: I-16 tail asymmetry?
Post by: Xjazz on March 22, 2012, 03:20:29 PM
Hi

This topic just catch my eye.

From my very limited 3D modeling point of view, it's easier to use a mesh mirror modifier(left/right axis) for the main shape.
The asymmetrical details are added where needed with close range LOD. 


BTW
Was the I-16 a only WW2 plane with build-in longitudinal 'relaxed stability'? Meaning, a very keen to turn in any speed?