Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuffler on March 21, 2012, 03:16:41 PM
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Wow. New Orleans Saints Head Coach Sean Payton was suspended without pay for the entire 2012 season and former Saints defensive coach Gregg Williams was suspended indefinitely. Assistant Head Coach Joe Vitt was suspended without pay for the first six regular-season games. General Manager Mickey Loomis was suspended without pay for the first eight regular-season games of the 2012 season.
The team was also fined $500,000, and the team will forfeit its second-round draft picks in 2012 and 2013.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/sport/football/saints-bounties-discipline/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/sport/football/saints-bounties-discipline/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)
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:rofl
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They are just relieved there was no ban on gangsta rap music in the locker room.
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I don't give a crap about football, but does anyone else besides me find this coming from a team called the 'Saints' ironically funny?
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I don't give a crap about football, but does anyone else besides me find this coming from a team called the 'Saints' ironically funny?
:rofl
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Tim Tebow's penalty is worse. Elway could be the Anti-Christ.
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Tim Tebow's penalty is worse. Elway could be the Anti-Christ.
No the Jets are stupid for even looking at Tebow....wtg Manning
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They are stupid. Going into full implosion mode. Manning is likely to re-injure his neck though and the Broncos will be SOL.
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Time to investigate the Steelers wondering how much Harrison makes to head hunt. <throws line in pond>
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While there is talk that other team participated in bounties, they say that the other teams were not dumb enough to leave a paper trail.
I found that funny in the middle of this horrendous revelation.
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I don't think there is any question that other teams participate in similar acts, the Saints were just unlucky enough to get caught. There is no need for it, and I think the penalties the Saints suffered are well deserved.
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Remember the NFL is selfproclaimed as an Entertainment Organization and will protect it's interests and Advertisers. It's not about protecting players but protecting Payers.
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All the teams did it to a certain extent, the Taints took it to a new level and then were stupid enough to lie to Goodell about it. This statement from the NFL is why they came down so hard on them:
The league also chastised Payton for choosing to "falsely deny that the program existed" and for attempting to "encourage the false denials by instructing assistants to 'make sure our ducks are in a row.' "
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Eagles fans might remember the Buddy Ryan era where we had the "bounty bowl". Here's the story on that good stuff:
On November 23, 1989, Philadelphia Eagles head coach Buddy Ryan found himself at the center of yet another controversy. The Eagles defeated Dallas by a score of 27-0, Dallas' only Thanksgiving game shutout. During the lopsided game, vitriol came to the surface on the field as the rivals got into several skirmishes, most notably when Dallas placekicker Luis Zendajas left the game with a concussion following a hard tackle by linebacker Jessie Small after a kickoff.
Following the game, broadcast on CBS with Pat Summerall and John Madden calling the game, Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson alleged that Ryan had taken out a bounty on two of his players, Dallas (and former Philadelphia) kicker Luis Zendejas and quarterback Troy Aikman. Johnson said:[citation needed]
“ I have absolutely no respect for the way they played the game, I would have said something to Buddy, but he wouldn't stand on the field long enough. He put his big, fat rear end into the dressing room. ”
Zendejas claimed that when he was with the Eagles, a player had once received $200 – $100 each for hits on a punter and kicker. This is what led his coach Jimmy Johnson to make the accusation that a bounty had existed in this game as well.[citation needed]
Buddy Ryan responded to Johnson's accusations:[citation needed]
“ I resent that. I've been on a diet, lost a couple of pounds. I thought I was looking good. ”
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Then there was the "Body Bag Bowl" against the 'skins. Ahh Buddy we miss ya so......
This was the second game of the year between the two NFC East rivals. The Redskins were two years removed from winning Super Bowl XXII, but were an aging team, behind a new quarterback, Jeff Rutledge. The Eagles were in their fifth season under defensive mastermind Buddy Ryan, but coming off two straight early playoff exits. In the previous game, on October 21, the 3-2 Redskins beat the 2-3 Eagles 13-7, behind a rushing touchdown by Gerald Riggs and two Chip Lohmiller field goals. The rematch would come three weeks later, on Monday Night Football, with the second-place Redskins being 5-3 and the third-place Eagles being 4-4.
The Eagles would score first, on a 30-yard interception return for a touchdown by defensive back William Frizzell. In the second quarter, the Redskins would tie the game 7-7 behind a Rutledge pass to tight end Don Warren. However, by the third quarter, the Eagles took control with three touchdowns. The first came on a trick play, with running back Keith Byars throwing a 9-yard pass to Heath Sherman. The second came via the defense, with defensive end Clyde Simmons returning a fumble 18 yards. The final touchdown was another pass to Sherman, this time by quarterback Randall Cunningham. The Redskins would finish the scoring in the fourth quarter, with Brian Mitchell scoring on a one-yard run, but it would not lead to a comeback, with the Eagles winning 28-14.[2]
During this game, eight Redskin players were injured, including starting quarterback Jeff Rutledge and backup Stan Humphries. Washington, already playing without quarterbacks Mark Rypien (who was injured earlier in the season) and Gary Hogeboom (inactive), had to end the game with rookie running back/kick returner Brian Mitchell at quarterback.
[edit] AftermathFollowing the Body Bag Game game the Eagles would go on to win five of their last seven under Cunningham, finish the season 10-6 and earn a wild card playoff berth, the fourth seed in the tough NFC. The Redskins meanwhile also would win five of their last seven to finish the season 10-6, losing the number four seed spot to the Eagles. Despite this, the Redskins would return to Veterans Stadium and defeat the Eagles in the Wild Card playoff game, 20-6. The Redskins would go on to lose to defending Super Bowl champion San Francisco in the divisional round. However, as told in the NFL Network presentation America's Game: The Story of the 1991 Washington Redskins, coach Joe Gibbs and others pointed to this game as the foundation for the successes of the 1991 Redskins, who would go on to win Super Bowl XXVI.
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Charles Martin (Green Bay) was suspended for two games after slamming Jim McMahon to the turf and ending his 1986 season. Martin wore the numbers of players who he was going to hurt on his towel.
Here's the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM
The Hitman is nothing new in football. And let's be brutally honest about all of this. The ONLY reason that the NFL came down so hard on the Saints is because there are several former players bringing lawsuits against the League for not taking better care of them (McMahon is one of them).
The NFL is going into some major lawsuits and needs to show the legal system that they do, in fact, "care".
It's all about the dollar. Not about safety or honesty.
Period.
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Again, I don't care much about football, but I don't see a problem with team owners rewarding players for tackling the quarterback/kicker. Wording it to 'knock them out of the game' is a bit much and definitely is poor sportmanship and invites the NFL penalties.
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Charles Martin (Green Bay) was suspended for two games after slamming Jim McMahon to the turf and ending his 1986 season. Martin wore the numbers of players who he was going to hurt on his towel.
Here's the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM
The Hitman is nothing new in football. And let's be brutally honest about all of this. The ONLY reason that the NFL came down so hard on the Saints is because there are several former players bringing lawsuits against the League for not taking better care of them (McMahon is one of them).
The NFL is going into some major lawsuits and needs to show the legal system that they do, in fact, "care".
It's all about the dollar. Not about safety or honesty.
Period.
Chales Martin should have been banned from the game for life. Poor sportmanship from the lowest form of human on earth.
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Martin was one of the greatest scumbags in NFL History. I remember watching that game. It was the low class Packer team that played under Forrest Greg and it was full of low lifes. Martin deserved a much stiffer penalty then he got and as far as Im concerned if they dont put an end to this low life gangsta nonsense I'll stop watching football.
Charles Martin (Green Bay) was suspended for two games after slamming Jim McMahon to the turf and ending his 1986 season. Martin wore the numbers of players who he was going to hurt on his towel.
Here's the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM
The Hitman is nothing new in football. And let's be brutally honest about all of this. The ONLY reason that the NFL came down so hard on the Saints is because there are several former players bringing lawsuits against the League for not taking better care of them (McMahon is one of them).
The NFL is going into some major lawsuits and needs to show the legal system that they do, in fact, "care".
It's all about the dollar. Not about safety or honesty.
Period.
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I don't understand all the animosity towards Tebow? :headscratch: Because he's a Christian, or wants to give God the glory for his success? We are, or were a Christian Nation. :salute
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I don't understand all the animosity towards Tebow? :headscratch: Because he's a Christian, or wants to give God the glory for his success? We are, or were a Christian Nation. :salute
don't you know it's cool to hate these days? Where HAVE you been?
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don't you know it's cool to hate these days? Where HAVE you been?
Yeah I guess, but it sure seems easier to give everyone the benefit of the doubt initially. Now don't get me wrong there are things that set me off as well, but this I don't understand.
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as far as Im concerned if they dont put an end to this low life gangsta nonsense I'll stop watching football.
C'mon Rich, do you honestly believe that headhunting and brutality are something new to the NFL? Or are you just railing against the "gangsta" attitude and those that perpetuate it?
Personally, I'll stop watching football when they make hard, aggressive play against the rules... oh wait, they are already in the process. It won't be long before a defender isn't allowed within five yards of one of those pretty boy quarterbacks. Mark my words, the sack is going to be a thing of the past.
They are going to charge people $100+ per seat, only to make them watch a game that is a mere shell of it's former self. Sip on that for awhile, because I ain't buying.
EDIT: And I still stand by my statement that the only reason the NFL is doing this to N.O. is to make themselves look good before the upcoming litigation.
EDIT2: Watch this short film and tell me that this isn't how football should be played.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBumQdwc-tE
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Penalty was too steep imo.
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I don't understand all the animosity towards Tebow? :headscratch: Because he's a Christian, or wants to give God the glory for his success? We are, or were a Christian Nation. :salute
I'd like to speak for myself, thank you very much.
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I don't understand all the animosity towards Tebow? :headscratch: Because he's a Christian, or wants to give God the glory for his success? We are, or were a Christian Nation. :salute
I'm down with Jesus....last year when people were saying "he's a good QB" I thought the world was stupid for a minute, just look at his throw
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I don't understand all the animosity towards Tebow? :headscratch: Because he's a Christian, or wants to give God the glory for his success? We are, or were a Christian Nation. :salute
Because he is more hype then substance. Alot of NFL organizations dont think he will ever be able to be a good NFL QB.
the Jets only took him for the publicity it will bring them in a local that is dominated by the Giants in the press and media almost every conceivable way.
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Because he is more hype then substance. Alot of NFL organizations dont think he will ever be able to be a good NFL QB.
the Jets only took him for the publicity it will bring them in a local that is dominated by the Giants in the press and media almost every conceivable way.
You'll maybe right, time will tell. Now if he is successful, I expect you all to "eat a little crow!" :lol
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You'll maybe right, time will tell. Now if he is successful, I expect you all to "eat a little crow!" :lol
No problem. So long as its jut a little one. The big ones give me indigestion
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I think it's fair. Sure it's a brutal sport, but when you encourage players to actually injure others you are risking the careers and potentially tens of millions in future income for the players you put the bounty on. These coaches are losing six weeks to a year of income for encouraging behaviour that could have cost others years worth.
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I think it's fair. Sure it's a brutal sport, but when you encourage players to actually injure others you are risking the careers and potentially tens of millions in future income for the players you put the bounty on. These coaches are losing six weeks to a year of income for encouraging behaviour that could have cost others years worth.
Except the bounty program didn't encourage you to play outside of the rules, just hard nosed football. What incentive would a player have if he gets a 5k bonus for knocking a player out of the game if the league fines him 60k for a cheap hit?
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Except the bounty program didn't encourage you to play outside of the rules, just hard nosed football. What incentive would a player have if he gets a 5k bonus for knocking a player out of the game if the league fines him 60k for a cheap hit?
Attempting to intentionally injure someone to knock them out of the game is against the rules. I have nothing against hard nosed football and enjoy the big hit as much as anyone. But. Not all of those shots Favre took in that championship game were exactly clean shots. And thee were a couple that should have been called as penalties and werent.
If anything some of those refs should be reprimanded as well.
The incentive is a big ring.
Most players will tell you that they couldnt care less about the superbowl money. What they really want is that championship ring
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Attempting to intentionally injure someone to knock them out of the game is against the rules. I have nothing against hard nosed football and enjoy the big hit as much as anyone. But. Not all of those shots Favre took in that championship game were exactly clean shots. And thee were a couple that should have been called as penalties and werent.
If anything some of those refs should be reprimanded as well.
The incentive is a big ring.
Most players will tell you that they couldnt care less about the superbowl money. What they really want is that championship ring
What does the bounty program have to do with wanting a Super Bowl ring then?
And knocking a player out of the game does not imply you injured him. Players get roughed up all the time in all sports and leave the game only to return later or play the next week.
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C'mon Rich, do you honestly believe that headhunting and brutality are something new to the NFL? Or are you just railing against the "gangsta" attitude and those that perpetuate it?
Personally, I'll stop watching football when they make hard, aggressive play against the rules... oh wait, they are already in the process. It won't be long before a defender isn't allowed within five yards of one of those pretty boy quarterbacks. Mark my words, the sack is going to be a thing of the past.
They are going to charge people $100+ per seat, only to make them watch a game that is a mere shell of it's former self. Sip on that for awhile, because I ain't buying.
EDIT: And I still stand by my statement that the only reason the NFL is doing this to N.O. is to make themselves look good before the upcoming litigation.
EDIT2: Watch this short film and tell me that this isn't how football should be played.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBumQdwc-tE
Your confusing hard agressive plays with headhunting.
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Attempting to intentionally injure someone to knock them out of the game is against the rules. I have nothing against hard nosed football and enjoy the big hit as much as anyone. But. Not all of those shots Favre took in that championship game were exactly clean shots. And thee were a couple that should have been called as penalties and werent.
If anything some of those refs should be reprimanded as well.
The incentive is a big ring.
Most players will tell you that they couldnt care less about the superbowl money. What they really want is that championship ring
Btw let me be clear, I am not arguing that there shouldn't have been a fine/suspension, mainly because of the publicity backlash. I wonder how many similar bounty programs got quietly retired after the Saints got ratted out. But a year suspension for the head coach? Puhhhlease, should have been a 2-4 game suspension.
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Thats not what Im saying. It was, and always will be, a hard hitting violent sport but that doesnt mean you have to act like Tony Soprano to play it. This Saints things is so low life its almost hard to believe. It isnt just the headhunting for pay but its the arrogance of the coaches, players, even the GM, lieing about it to the NFL. It has nothing to do with playing hard hitting football. Having such low life incentives promotes dirty play and a dirty organization. Again, this has nothing to do with the new rules that are trying to limit injuries. The Saints crossed a line and then tried to Lie their way out of it.
Im glad they got stepped on. I'd be just as glad if it was the Bears who got stepped on for pulling this lowlife stunt. The NFL is either a class organization or it isnt.
C'mon Rich, do you honestly believe that headhunting and brutality are something new to the NFL? Or are you just railing against the "gangsta" attitude and those that perpetuate it?
Personally, I'll stop watching football when they make hard, aggressive play against the rules... oh wait, they are already in the process. It won't be long before a defender isn't allowed within five yards of one of those pretty boy quarterbacks. Mark my words, the sack is going to be a thing of the past.
They are going to charge people $100+ per seat, only to make them watch a game that is a mere shell of it's former self. Sip on that for awhile, because I ain't buying.
EDIT: And I still stand by my statement that the only reason the NFL is doing this to N.O. is to make themselves look good before the upcoming litigation.
EDIT2: Watch this short film and tell me that this isn't how football should be played.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBumQdwc-tE
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Time to investigate the Steelers wondering how much Harrison makes to head hunt. <throws line in pond>
Lamar Woodley is the headhunter there
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What does the bounty program have to do with wanting a Super Bowl ring then?
And knocking a player out of the game does not imply you injured him. Players get roughed up all the time in all sports and leave the game only to return later or play the next week.
Players getting knocked out of the game arent knocked out because their are feeling ecstasy (well some of em might)
If you are hurt enough to get knocked out of a game you could potentially be hurt enough to have your career ended.
I remember in high school there was a coach that actually taught and encouraged going after an opponents knees.
From what I understand for talking to kids from other townships at the time it wasnt all that uncommon though still against the rules. I knew several who had to have knee surgery. Back then knee surgery meant any hope of playing football was ended.
When you go after someone in a game to intentionally hurt them to knock them out of the game. You arent just looking to make a big hit to intimidate in the normal course of the game. You are typically going after specific target areas that will do the task all in one shot.
Its all about winning the games. In the NFL you win enough games and you get to play in the superbowl. Win the superbowl and you get a big ring.
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I don't understand all the animosity towards Tebow? :headscratch: Because he's a Christian, or wants to give God the glory for his success? We are, or were a Christian Nation. :salute
We are a FREE nation, to include freedom of (or preferably FROM) religion.
Bob
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Btw let me be clear, I am not arguing that there shouldn't have been a fine/suspension, mainly because of the publicity backlash. I wonder how many similar bounty programs got quietly retired after the Saints got ratted out. But a year suspension for the head coach? Puhhhlease, should have been a 2-4 game suspension.
Actually I wouldnt be surprised if Benson ended up firing him. It certainly would seem approperiate. 2-4 Games? No way. 2-4 games is what a player gets for making one dirty hit. This went on for several years. He knew about it, condoned it, then lied about it. As the head coach the responsibility ultimately falls on his shoulders. This wasnt just something the players had going on between themselves. Coaches and supposedly the front office were in on it as well.
To be fair. I am sure that these people are being made an example of. Now precedent has been set.
and alot has to do witht he Saints "Its our Universe" attitude they took on the matter as is pointed out here.
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/new_orleans_saints_now_feel_th.html
""It's our universe." Anyone who's dealt with the New Orleans Saints in the Sean Payton era has heard the phrase more than once. It's a favorite of Saints executives, who often directed it to the uninitiated or unwitting who dared question their authority.
It's one thing to act this way to the media or opponents; it's altogether different to do so toward your boss.
In essence that's what Payton did with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and league officials when they accused the Saints of running a bounty program.
Essentially, the Saints told Goodell: "It's our universe" and to go away."
Seems Green bay was probed for similar violations in 2007 as well
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/nfl_investigated_green_bay_pac.html
The New Orleans Saints weren't the only team to be investigated by the NFL for violations of the league's "bounty rule" in recent years. The Green Bay Packers were investigated in 2007 for lesser infractions and wound up suffering no punishment after agreeing to discontinue their actions.
In 2007, Packers players reportedly offered to pay the team's defensive linemen $500 each if they were able to hold Minnesota Vikings tailback Adrian Peterson under 100 rushing yards and the Carolina Panthers under 60 rushing yards as a team.
Reportedly, the league investigated the Packers at the time for possible violations of both the illegal incentive program and the "bounty rule," which prohibits players from placing a bounty on opponents that could lead to unnecessary violent acts.
Ultimately, the league did not enact any punishments. At the time, league spokesman Greg Aiello said, "The club has handled the matter with the players, and the incentive pool has been discontinued."
At the time, Packers general manager Ted Thompson claimed responsibility, saying, "In management, we knew of the prohibition (against player incentive pools). It's my belief that the players involved did not think there was any prohibition, and that's a communication error we made. That's ultimately my responsibility."
Two different instances handled two different ways by their respective clubs.
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Btw let me be clear, I am not arguing that there shouldn't have been a fine/suspension, mainly because of the publicity backlash. I wonder how many similar bounty programs got quietly retired after the Saints got ratted out. But a year suspension for the head coach? Puhhhlease, should have been a 2-4 game suspension.
Yup you can bet there were others. Only the saints so far had a paper trail.
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We are a FREE nation, to include freedom of (or preferably FROM) religion.
Bob
So if your to force everyone else into not praticing their beliefs while you practice yours. hmm
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So if your to force everyone else into not praticing their beliefs while you practice yours. hmm
If I can sort out the sentance structure accurately, then no, I would say freedom from religion is preferable to me, but this nation is based in part on freedom of religion, so it matters not to me what others wish to believe with regards to actual religion. So you may all practice whatever, I will continue to enjoy spirituality without the constraints of religious bias and narrowminded bigotry. But no matter what is believed, Hairy Plunderer or Cosmic Muffin, this is still not a Christian nation, but a nation of many and varying religions, faiths and beliefs, and the better for it.
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If I can sort out the sentance structure accurately, then no, I would say freedom from religion is preferable to me, but this nation is based in part on freedom of religion, so it matters not to me what others wish to believe with regards to actual religion. So you may all practice whatever, I will continue to enjoy spirituality without the constraints of religious bias and narrowminded bigotry. But no matter what is believed, Hairy Plunderer or Cosmic Muffin, this is still not a Christian nation, but a nation of many and varying religions, faiths and beliefs, and the better for it.
Then believe in what you wish to believe in. Let others believe in what they wish to believe in. If folks do something that is not along your beliefs then don't participate. To force your wish on others is narrow minded bigotry.
This Nation was developed as it is. your freedom is that you can participate if you wish or make your own path.
Not sure how you got here from a bounty program. lol
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Then believe in what you wish to believe in. Let others believe in what they wish to believe in. If folks do something that is not along your beliefs then don't participate. To force your wish on others is narrow minded bigotry.
This Nation was developed as it is. your freedom is that you can participate if you wish or make your own path.
Not sure how you got here from a bounty program. lol
I agree, a bit convoluted. The path led from thinking Tebow was vilified for his religious beliefs, not the fact that he can't play at the NFL leve (which I truly believe he can someday), and the statements involved in that. It was stated he should be accepted because we are a Christian nation. I only wanted to point out that we are not, and that is not a belief, it is the first amendment in the Bill of Rights that we have freedom of religion. So pointing that out is not narrowminded, it is a point of fact. Again, I really do not mind any religion, I am not one who gets enjoyment from slamming doors in the face of Mormons, etc.
But I fully agree, it is your freedom to choose your path here, but we step daily closer to losing that exact freedom, and calling us a Christian nation is one more step because some very powerful people who love to quote the Constituion as their selling point neglect this and many other points contained within that document.
But this is unintentionally far too off topic, my apologies.
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Harrison would still be a ferocious hitter if he wouldn't lead with his head so much, but he does so blindly anyway. He'll keep paying until he figures it out.
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Harrison would still be a ferocious hitter if he wouldn't lead with his head so much, but he does so blindly anyway. He'll keep paying until he figures it out.
Or breaks his neck.