Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JimmyD3 on March 22, 2012, 11:31:32 PM
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Does anyone have any advice to share on good techniques for Gunners? How close do you let the bandit get before you start firing? What gunner position is the best for general protection of the bomber? I realize each bomber has a different layout. How many gunners are allowed on any aircraft, say the B17, 1 or 4 or what? If these are stupid questions let me know, I'm just trying to learn all I can. :headscratch: :old:
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Does anyone have any advice to share on good techniques for Gunners? Practice Practice Practice
How close do you let the bandit get before you start firing? Depends.. 1.5k if he's attacking you from the front, 1.0k from other angles.
What gunner position is the best for general protection of the bomber? Whichever is closest to the bad guy and gives you the clearest shot.
I realize each bomber has a different layout. How many gunners are allowed on any aircraft, say the B17, 1 or 4 or what? Pilot plus 1 additional gunner
If these are stupid questions let me know, I'm just trying to learn all I can. :headscratch: :old:
If you want to get a lot of gunnery practice, take your bombers into the target area at 10K or lower.
If you have 4 engine heavy.. and some fellow is desperately trying to catch you, chop the throttle and let him. It shortens his pain.
Happy hunting!!
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Thanks Drone, all input is appreciated. :rock
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1. You can't hit a plane beyond 1,200 yards. Your rounds disappear.
2. Your rounds from all planes in formation firing will converge at 500 yards away. That's a good distance to finish off the kill of any attacker. Some people start firing when an attacker is 1,000 yards away, others wait until 800 yards or so to open fire. Depends on how good you are. :)
3. You can open a practice target in the air in any arena. Type ".target 1000" without quotes in the text buffer and you'll see a target 1,000 yards away to the north. Don't forget the period at the beginning of the command.
You can set the target distance. For example, ".target 800" would be a target 800 yards out for you to practice. Type ".target 0" to close the target.
There is a section on bombers at the Trainer's site in my signature below.
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As noted above the biggest thing to understand is that the converging fire from your drones is locked in at 500 yards. So if the bandit is at 400 yards, and you're firing all guns (ie your drones as well), the fire may look impressive but the drones are just shooting into empty air. That is one reason having a gunner onboard can be helpful as you can put more guns on the target at all ranges.
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Does anyone have any advice to share on good techniques for Gunners? How close do you let the bandit get before you start firing? What gunner position is the best for general protection of the bomber? I realize each bomber has a different layout. How many gunners are allowed on any aircraft, say the B17, 1 or 4 or what? If these are stupid questions let me know, I'm just trying to learn all I can. :headscratch: :old:
One thing to keep in mind, the conversion point for the 3 bomber element is 650 yards! Best thing to do is go into training arena, type in radio bar, TARGET 1,000 yds, then press enter . The "target" will always be in the northern quadrant in relation to your aircraft. Example, if you want to pratice with your tail guns, the aircraft must be pointed in a south direction. If you want to pratice with your nose guns, you must have the aircraft pointed north! First thing you will notice at 1,000yds, only the guns in the "mother" ship are hitting the target! The drone to your right is crossing the bullet stream from right to left and does NOT touch the target at all. Same thing with your left drone, except in reverse! To delete the target, type TARGET 0 and the target will disappear. Most game "sticks" have a 2 position firing trigger, first pull is primary and second pull, (all the way back on trigger), will fire all guns in all three bombers of the position you have selected. My pratice is to only fire the primary guns,(first position on trigger), at 1,000 yards and then pull all the way back for all guns to fire when the target aircraft is between 600 to 800 yds distance. To fire all guns at 1,000 yards is to waste your ammo in the drones and you might need that ammo later on during the flight. I would invite you to visit www.devildogssquadron.com and click on training tab. There are some points on bombers in general about defensive methods and also bomb aiming. Glad to see you new guys in the game and I like the game so much, I am willing to help anyone learn the basic's of this GREAT game! If you are playing the game as a "rook", I invite you to join the DD's on channel 171, we run bombers 90% of the time and we would be glad to help you anyway that we can.
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Set your fire button to "fire all guns" so all of the available guns on your buffs fire at the same time (the ones that you are using at the time, anyhow).
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For those that must come in at the worst possible angle to attack me, my brother made a gunsight with a 1K mark below center. Enemy planes that come in and are 1K behind me usually get a rude surprise. ;)
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg692/scaled.php?server=692&filename=190tailgun.jpg&res=medium)
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I wonder how often did the bombers kill their nmies 1K out in real life.
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contact 999000 for gunnery tips. he has learned to turn tail guns on a b17 into lasers!!
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Lancasters are the weakest 4 engine heavy and the guns do not cover underneath the bomber. In the MA it's very difficult to survive to the target below 10k. It makes most fighters have to climb up to you if you have Alt. But you will have the Alt monkey who will be higher.
It's hard to defend against a fighter diving at steep angles and manuvers don't always stop them from taking out your drones as they will attack them first. :uhoh
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You can jump to the drone under attack and gun from it instead to improve its chances of survival.
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If the 50s on Allied bombers worked like the one's here in Aces High we would have never needed an escort fighter and never lost a plane. We would have shot down Germany s entire fighter force in a week. Ever notice the 50s on a Bomber in Aces High is like 20mm but the same 50cal on a fighter are like BBs or is it just me.
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I'd rather defend against a fighter making slashing attacks rather than coming straight down my six. The reason being is that even though i would dispatch that fighter quickly, he/she is likely to take at least one of my drones because the fighter can get more guns on me from further out. Sure, i can get a few pings from 1k, but the fighter can beat on me with cannons from that distance.
Tail gun is probably my most used gun, followed by the ball turrett and top gun equally. Ill only use the waist guns to take a few pot shots at fighters off my wing.
I have my mouse set up for my guns, i find it much more stable of a platform for fine aiming down range. Ill fire small bursts with my primary gun to get the range. I try to only use the fire all feature when the fighter is between 450-550 yards away
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If I may humbly suggest, fly fighters also and go hunt buffs. By attacking them you will gain insight and information that will help you be a better buff gunner.
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Thanks for all the input, I think I'll go right a book now that I have all this data :cheers: :banana:
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I can land hits on the buffs from a dead six attack at 1600 yards with the yak9t's cannon.
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I can land hits on the buffs from a dead six attack at 1600 yards with the yak9t's cannon.
:huh :headscratch:
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I can land hits on the buffs from a dead six attack at 1600 yards with the yak9t's cannon.
No rounds in the game travel that far. That can be verified by testing with a target.
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One mistake that I see a lot of bomber pilots doing is holding down the fire key while tracking a bandit. Instead you should fire short bursts of fire as the bandit closes in and only hold down the trigger when they're at D400 or less, otherwise you're wasting precious ammo on air.
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One mistake that I see a lot of bomber pilots doing is holding down the fire key while tracking a bandit. Instead you should fire short bursts of fire as the bandit closes in and only hold down the trigger when they're at D400 or less, otherwise you're wasting precious ammo on air.
I'm always reminding those folks in posted missions to be as conservative on ammo as possible, especially when we start out, beacuse we still have to make it home.
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No rounds in the game travel that far. That can be verified by testing with a target.
You're right....they don't fire 1500 yards.
They actually fly out to 1999 yards.
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You're right....they don't fire 1500 yards.
They actually fly out to 1999 yards.
Double :huh :huh :headscratch: :headscratch:
I'd laugh and think "This guy's a n00b, easy scalp" if you were shooting at me 1.5k away or near 2k away.
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I fly 17s a lot (and get my share of fighter jocks with the bomber guns).
The fighter attacks generally break down into 3 categories.
1. The 6-lemmings. Guys will crawl up your dead 6 in B17s thinking they can outgun you. These guys may get a drone, but usually get a rude awakening at about 800 out. These are pretty stable to shoot at so I will usually go slightly off center and try to saw off a wing. 6 or 12 .50 cals converging on a wing usually makes that happen pretty quickly. If a guy is coming up my six in a perk ride (a tempest, or me-262) - I aim for the canopy and try for a pilot wound / kill. Even if they get a drone on that first pass, if they are wounded they are done.
2. The hi-lo attacks. The guys that have learned the lesson that you don't crawl up the tail of a pack of B17s will try diving down from on top or you, or zooming up from directly underneath. These attacks are more dangerous, but if you learn to jump from top turret to tail or ball turret quickly you can give them a hail of bullets. Guys coming down from the top will usually blow by the tail and attack from underneath - usually jump to the ball turret quickly and give them a burst there, and sometimes you will see them zoom out in front of you on the climb so you can get good shots in if you jump to the chin turret quickly. The low zooming attacker usually will end up on your tail - not many of them will have enough E to zoom by and come at you from the top. You can give them a burst with the ball turret and then jump to the tail guns for most of those guys.
3. The slashing attacks. These are the most dangerous guys. They have learned the lessons from #1 and #2, and will position themselves about 2K out, high on your wing and then come at you with a fast slashing attack. First, learn to lead these guys by a lot and just get hits on them - this type of attack usually becomes a war of attrition as not too many fighters can put that much lead on you in the quick pass these guys make. Also, as they are slashing across your formation, they tend to hit the drones first. Learn to step on the rudder while you are in the gun turrets so that you can turn and put more guns on the target - just a light step on the rudder, drops your wing enough to get the extra guns into play. I usually aim center mass at these guys and go for engine hits.
Use your F3 view a lot to keep situational awareness. Learn to control your buffs from the gun turret with your rudder so that you can take evasive action. I like to make turns that either put my tailguns toward the enemy, or just frustrate them a lot while they are trying to line up for hi-lo or slashing attacks. A lot of fighter jocks don't have patience, so if you make a few turns while they are trying to line up they will just dive on in on your tailguns and have a go. I don't spare the ammo - you have plenty, and nothing makes a fighter jock not want to stay close to you like a hail of tracers.
<S> and I hope to see you bombing your enemies into tiny bits.
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I let them close within 800, fire a short burst, watch the tracers impact, pilot normally panics.
If you are worried about the fighter you can do this technique: Full speed, level (X), when they get close press alt+x (You will climb), this will normally put them under you and give you a shot into the cockpit and then you get to watch as they follow you (if still alive), then press X and watch them go soaring above you and you can then place a large burst into the belly of the plane.
I'm one of the best shots in the DHBG for a reason. ;) (hehe had to toot my own horn :devil )
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I'm always reminding those folks in posted missions to be as conservative on ammo as possible, especially when we start out, beacuse we still have to make it home.
There are exceptions. You could be in B-26s, which I think Ive never ran out of ammo. Or at a point in your flight where theres no way your going to run out of ammo.
Then there is the philosophy of allowing the IB fighter to fly INTO your bullets stream, using one planes guns and then adjusting lead as he moves in closer and switching to "All guns". Ive had bomber gunners killed often but have rarely ran out of ammo Frankly. Most of the time only in KI-67s and even then very few times.
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Lead is a bit more difficult in bombers than in a fighter where you're shooting out the front of your plane. Not only do you have to take into account where their plane is going to be when your bullets arrive, but you have to take into account the forward and lateral motion of your aircraft as well. When a plane is coming up on your 4-7 you'll shoot towards the inside wing to 'lead' the target. You'll actually end up shooting behind the target because of how the battle is actually going. Switching your lead to the outside wing places your bullet stream in front of the contact.
The concept gets even more difficult when people use high angle frontal attacks....
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bombers should just accept it and not shoot back
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Pretend your AFK........then open up on them at 400 out ..if your in full zoom...you can read the pilots lips......something like OH toejam!
999000 <S>
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I can land hits on the buffs from a dead six attack at 1600 yards with the yak9t's cannon.
:rofl
I'd like to learn that trick. First, getting the cannon to fire beyond 1500 yards and second just how to get so lucky at that range. Weighted dice? ;)
Now for the O/P-
First, remember that when you fire ALL of your guns the convergence is set at 500 yards. If the enemy plane is simply hangin' out at 1000-1.5k out, use a single gun and fire some "warning shots". Many times once you connect you will make them adjust their flight path enough to throw them out of sync which is good for you. Once inside 800 yards just lead and fire fire fire. In Lancaster, remember that your rear turret is your only .50 caliber and that it has limited ammo. Use your top turret for long range "checks".
Secondly, always aim where they are going to be, when in doubt fire out in front and let them fly into your stream of fire.
Thirdly, it take time and practice.
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best attack on bombers with the least risk to you fighter plane is front high 12 shooting at wing root...nearly 100% kills with that attack. Of coarse it's difficult to get there if you're not already there.... :D
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Smokinloon......up a yak9, type target 1999, and arc rounds into the target.
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When it comes to lanc's. Both front and real turret guns can shoot almost 90 degrees down, although they do not have a ball turret they have excellent field of fire downwards as a whole, the best attack imo is to hit them slightly low on the side in a slashing attack.
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1. Use the zoom key
2. Use F3 and your various gun positions to keep an eye on your surroundings. Do this even if you are in formation with other bombers/fighters. Too often, even with an escort, once there are a few cons in the area or the other bombers are all glued to the bombsight, bandits can slip in and slice a wing or engine before you even know what is going on.
3. Learning to lead properly is like using the force, you'll know it once you've got it. Watch for the flashes on the enemy, that means you are getting hits. Watch WHERE the flashes are landing, getting hits is better than not getting hits, however learning how and where to place your weight of fire is the difference between getting a kill and getting a kill and losing a drone.
4. Know your enemies. This is especially important when you have an entire gaggle queuing up like 12 year old girls at a Twilight sneak preview. Prioritize your targets based upon threat level. The more cannons, the higher the danger. If you have multiple bandits incoming, give the wing mounted .50 jockeys a love tap spray to the canopy or wing root if they are closing faster than the cannon boys, then concentrate fire on cannoneers as they get in range. 262s, 163s, 190s, 152s, 109s, and P38s are top priority. Spits and Hurris can be very bad news as well, but only if they know what they are doing. A newb with centerline mounted cannons can hit a buff pretty easily.
5. Unless you are trying to ward them off, don't stop firing. This is followed with the caveat that you only fire when you are going to hit them. With rate of closure being what it is, use every millisecond of time that your firing window is open to thrash hammer them.
6. Don't chase kills. Your sole mission is to deliver those eggs with precision and then land your sortie. Unless you are trying to bait enemies away from C-47s or otherwise pulling pressure off someone else, just keep flying. If I smoke an enemy fighter, depending on the mission leg, remaining ammo, number of friendlies in the area, once he breaks off I will stop firing. If one of your teammates gets the kill, take pride in setting it up and doing your job.
7. If I am alone (say strat-bombing, or trying to disable a base supporting an attack elsewhere), I will watch (especially an enemy climbing up on my 6) very closely. As they are often wondering whether or not you even know if they are coming, I will let them wonder as long as possible. I will wait until either A) they start firing or B) they get within optimum range before letting them have it. With guns converging at 500, gauge their rate of closure and open up on them ~550 or 600. If they are creeping up to get within knife range, they will most likely not even get a chance to fire.
8. You can slice a wing (or wing tip) off of an enemy fighter with relative ease (not so much with American Iron, but definitely the Loofawaffles and Shpitz). This is an easy way to abruptly alter an enemy pilots plans, but in some situations this can also guarantee a collision. A fighter screaming in on a slashing attack, or coming in high 3/9 for a cockpit line-up will spin right through your formation if you slice a wing. This is less than optimal.
9. Don't waste your waists! (Keke.) While almost never as useful as your primary gun positions, taking any shots you possibly can with your waist guns saves valuable ammo in your turrets. Nothing is worse than being a sector away from landing those strat bombing points and staring at 0's in your ammo reserves whilst staring at Zero's on your tail. (ZOMGEE THE COMEDIES!)
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Pretend your AFK........then open up on them at 400 out ..if your in full zoom...you can read the pilots lips......something like OH toejam!
999000 <S>
^^^^^^ x 2
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By the time I reach D500, I have already spread all of my 30mm taters across all 3 bombers when flying the 110g.
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By the time I reach D500, I have already spread all of my 30mm taters across all 3 bombers when flying the 110g.
Not from 2k? I'm not impressed anymore.
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By the time I reach D500, I have already spread all of my 30mm taters across all 3 bombers when flying the 110g.
Wow....you must be very honorable.