Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hobo on March 21, 2000, 10:03:00 PM
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I certainly don't want to start an argument or a squeak session, but I am curious...does amnyone else think the guns are a tad too strong? Or conversly, the plane armor is a tad too weak?
Seems to me that you only have to sneeze on a plane to take a wing off. What does everyone else think?
Hobo
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I like it just as it is! You shoot someone, they stay shot! Unlike brand x where you can blast away to no effect, these guns really do some damage.
This helps teach some of us dweebs not to take the HO shot, work harder to get in a good gun position and make it count.
My basic feeling is, as long as all are effected in the same way by a factor like guns, then it is almost a none issue. A bigger frustration for me is when there is an unbalance issue. To me this is a fairly balanced issue with all enjoying the good points and bad points of the issue evenly.
Dago
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I like the damage the way it is, from what I read it seems right, a short burst could knock a guy out. Perhaps we are used to putting so many rounds in a target that what we thought was correct is probally more incorrect.
I say dont change anything regarding damage done, except accuracy of acks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Now who said anything about Brand W? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I'm definitely not advocating fighting with bb guns. I prefer stronger guns. My *gripe* is that you can't afford to take a single ping without risking an instant death or wing loss.
I think in a good dogfight, both sides should be able to survive a couple minor pings *most* of the time. The occasional PK by snapshot is good. The occasional snapshot that takes out an engine or other critical part is also good. But when it is typical that a 1 ping shot rips your wing off, I think that is too strong.
Hobo
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hmm, I have been pinged plenty of times and survived, lost a tail wheel, left airelon before, and still survived.
I admit it was quite a shock when i died at first to what seemed a few rounds but I am used to it and like the model, give it some more time.
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I think someone said that sm pilots have much more stick time then real pilots in WWII so I think we are just hitting the mark better. Not the guns or the armor just good shooting.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Crew
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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Disclaimer: The following is personal opinion only.
I was talking to one of my squadmates tonight who was saying that he could pour 100s of rounds into an enemy and he was still flying, yet when he got hit once, he lost a wing. He had this happen 3 times in a row and logged off rather angry.
Is this rubber bullets raising their ugly head yet again? I don't know. Could this thread's topic be somehow related to connection quality? Maybe.
My personal opinion is that this is pretty realistic. Cannon rounds would be absolutely devastating to metal-skinned aircraft. In fact I've read that only 5 - 10 MG151 could do lethal damage to a b17. The only guns that I personally think are a little weak are 50 cals. These, by virtue of the shear number of bullets put into the air, should be excellent snapshot weapons. Most all accounts by US aces tell of wings being sawed in half by quick bursts of 50 cal. Currently it seems a good 2 second burst at convergence is needed to bring down anything using 50 cals IMO. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the damage modeling as it is, though a few minor refinements to the 50s would make it excellent. Compared to other games that I've played though, we have it pretty good in here. Great work so far HTC. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Guys there are plenty of war stories of fighters coming home with dozens of 20mm strikes and hundreds of MG hits.
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Regarding how lethal the guns can/should be...
(paraphrased from Air Classics Magazine, Feb. 2000)
Hans Joachim Marseille, flying with JG52 over France between 1939 and 1941, and with JG27 over North Africa between the spring of 1941 and Sept. 30 of 1942, scored a total of 158 kills in 382 missions, with one 17 kill day, and averaging approximately 15 rounds fired per kill. On Sept. 1, 1942, the 17 kill day, on his first sortie before refueling he shot down 4 P-40 Kittyhawks in his BF109F, using only 20 rds. of cannon and 60 rds. of machine gun ammunition.
There are other accounts (as mentioned above) of aircraft being shredded, and still returning to base. Much of this depended on the plane in question, as several had outstanding durability records. Draw your own conclusions from this info, but with the possible exception of the F4U-1C, I think the guns are modeled pretty accurately in AH, or at least they are modeled fairly evenly across the board, with the one exception I suggested.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I dunno if they're "too strong" or not.
I do know that the -1C is annoying precisely because a snapshot will kill ya.
Anything else wants a few more rounds than that. Still, if you give someone a guns solution 100 yards behind you, you will go down. A mid-range ping or two won't kill, unless it's a cannon hawg.
The ShVAKs kill pretty good too.
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Forgive my ignorance - this could be common knowledge. But - from my understanding, ammo and the damage it inflicts is modelled. Each AC's armour, however, is not (yet).
Do I have this wrong?
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H.J. Marseille's low ammo use per kill was almost entirely due to his unique shooting style, ie: very close range and high deflection. His wingman would report seeing round strikes "walking" down the nose to the cockpit area. It should only take a few 7.92mm to kill a pilot...
But are PK's even in AH? I never had one. And, the gunner positions in bombers cannot be destroyed either, afaik. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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[This message has been edited by Rommel (edited 03-22-2000).]
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Juzz.. gun positions in bombers can most definitely be killed.
Nothing worse than being in a b17 when you see the messages:
Tail gunner is dead
Top turret is dead
Bottom turret is dead
Time to think of bailing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Interesting discussion. We had exactly the same discussion on the Tangmere BB about a week ago. There are now several members of Tangmere 'moonlighting' in AH and the question reared its head about the whole of Tangmere moving over to AH... that's about another 50 pilots.
Last week I downloaded AH again after not having flown it since the very first beta. I felt quite enthusiastic, it does have some very nice features. There is no doubt that AH now holds a lot of promise and I genuinely think that both the Warbirds and AH flight models are so similar that you couldn't probably pick between the two. I'm not convinced as yet that one is significantly better than the other one or vice-versa. The only thing I can really say about it is that aircraft in AH bleed energy like stuffed pigs and in Warbirds they retain too much energy. It's a matter of personal preference but I don't have a problem with either one of them.
Where I may have a problem, is in what I would call the 'combat' model. When the next AH release comes out (2 weeks) I will go online and give it a full two week no holds barred evaluation and I will do the same for Warbirds. I have no axe to grind here and I will be as fair and impartial as I can be. If I find that the only way to survive in AH is to climb out into the stratosphere, split-s, dive, get a couple of pings on someone and watch them disintegrate then I doubt very much I will be coming back to AH for a very long time. Personally I hate that sort of crap and I especially hate those people who think they are so damn toejam-hot because of it. It is a complete no-brainer to me. I would be absolutely bored toejamless in no time at all.
The cost is a non-issue. I value my free time a lot more than the time I would spend playing any one of these sims. $29.95 per month is nothing. I wouldn't miss it at all. Being a Warbirds trainer I have a comped account. In return I give up my time to train people. Like I say the cost is a non-issue. I will fly what I perceive to be the best sim I can lay my hands on regardless of cost (within reason).
Let's say that iEN goes belly-up tomorrow and Warbirds is no more. Even if AH were the only alternative I wouldn't fly it under the conditions I have described above. It would be a complete waste of my time and I would just sit it out until something else came along. I'm not going to waste my time so that Joe Bloggs 'dweeb' with 2 days flight
experience in AH can point his heavily gunned FW 190 at me and vapourise me as soon as look at me... not going to happen. If on the other hand the 'combat' model was such that I felt that he had 'worked' a bit for his kill then I would be happy with that. Simply falling out the sky at the speed of sound, loosing off a couple of shells, vapourising someone and disappearing off to the far side of the planet is not how it should be. It might have been indicitive of air combat in 1944-45 but it is certainly not 'fun' IMHO.
Regards
Daren
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Beaz aka ==bz==
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing
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Purely anecdotal information here but I've been trying out the P38L over the last week or two. It has 4x.50cal and a 20mm with convergence set at 300 yards, (not that the conv makes a hell of a difference in the P38).
What I do is take the high angle deflection shots, (near HO or where I get the chance to put rounds into the front quarters of the con), with the 4x.50cal. About 2/3 of the time something on the con breaks, (aileron, one elevator, rudder, wingtip, etc), which is just enough to give me an advantage to get behind the con and use the 20mm.
The important point to note is that I fire from long range at the deflection shot and let the con fly through the stream. The convergence on the P38 allows me to put most of the rounds in a tight cone on the target at a distance, which I can't do with any plane that has wing mounted guns or low ammo loads. My best P38 shot to date was a 1200 yard burst into the nose and canopy of a spitfire climbing inside me, smoking their engine.
If I tried that shot in a P51 the rounds would be spread out 4 times wider than on my plane with very little damage done to the con. In a 109 I get inside 300-150 before firing and have to get that close because of the drop of the 30mm rounds.
I think the ammunition is modeled correctly. The one ping deaths I can put down to Lag on the Net catching me all at once and the toughness of the planes seems right based on what I've seen .50cal do to sheet steel and armoured vehicles. Most of all I trust Pyro, HT and all the crew at HTC are doing their damndest to recreate realistic flight and damage models based on information that sometimes is over 60 years old.
Spotcha in the Air
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Personally I like it.
Yes, there are many accounts of planes coming home with hundreds of holes in them, but there are also many accounts (not just the aces) of pilots just barely touching the firing button, and the enemy plane exploding into flames, or cartwheeling out of the sky missing an important piece.
For those of you that have never seen a WWII Fighter plane without its skin, I can pretty much tell you that there is not much space in the aircraft that isn't filled with something critical.
Armor is another misleading term. We are not talking Panzer tanks here. Depending on the aircraft, we are usually talking a plate right behind the pilot, a bulletproof windscreen (should be called bullet-resistant), and maybe a small portion of the engine being protected. And most of that "armor" is effective against rifle caliber bullets, and shell fragments. Not against high velocity .50 cals and 20mm shells.
Plus from the comments of game designers in the past (WB's/AW), guns have been intentionally toned down for "good fights". Over in WB's, Hotseat is saying this constantly.
That all being said, I know its a tough change for the guys coming over from Warbirds. Especially the pilots who like to TnB, and are use to being able to be hit a few times without worry.
But basically its like the E model, once you fly a while with this gunnery model, you will get use to it and it will seem normal.
And to be honest, I think its realistic. Weapons like we fire (cannons and MG's), which were used to sink destroyers and other warhips, shouldn't have too hard a time with aluminum aircraft.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
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Since we are tacitly or explicitly making comparisons here, I'll point some stuff out:
The important point to note is that I fire from long range at the deflection shot and let the con fly through the stream.The d12 hit here described is not usual. If you fly straight and level, you will run the risk of getting hit at LR. These shots are hard to get if the con is maneuvering.
But, the fact that every bullet is modeled makes this sort of deflection shooting work -- at a high angle it's be less effective, but if the guy is at 3-400 yards, and gently edges into your stream, he's gonna get hosed.
In situations where every other bullet is modeled, I wouldn't recommend this approach -- you just don't get the density.
Beaz, the fighting is pretty much like WB, only higher off the ground, more energy loss for flying dirty or turning, less for gliding. If you don't want to fly the way you described, don't fly the cannon hawg. Just about the only times I've felt that my getting shot down was B$, there was one of those monstrosities flying around.
Like WB, here I've had some great dogfights, and I've had some lousy ones. This thing has some nice features (gun loadouts, asymmetrical airfoils(?), anything to do with the view system, etc.), and ones that need work (icons and hit flashes come to mind).
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I too have to say I like the guns as they are. Sure there is the occasional death where it seems a wing comes off with a single ping but whos to say the guy firing didnt have me lined up for a while?
Most of my deaths dont seem due to unreasonable gun lethality. Seems due to unreasonably good opponents. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding
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I do know that the -1C is annoying precisely because a snapshot will kill ya.
Ok, I dont mean to beat a dead horse but comeon....the Niki has 4 20mm too and I've killed plenty of planes with a quick snapshot from those guns too. Why doesnt anyone complain of the Niki's guns?
-Ding
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Hobo,
I think it's so disconcerting because you are comparing it to WB gunnery/damage model(which take s bit of getting used to for all of us WB guys).
That being said, I do think the guns are too strong. A snap shot will kill almost anything, even a B-17.
On the other hand, instead of the incessant tweaking of gunnery as in WB, I'd much prefer to live with what we have now, and have HTC continue to work on the strat and the addition of more to do in AH.
One thing is certain. If you get careless in AH, you're gonna die...quickly!
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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Beaz common over mate so we can start our gunnery crusade (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
(http://www.rsaf.org/osf/images/osf_inga.gif)
http://www.rsaf.org/osf/ (http://www.rsaf.org/osf/)
[This message has been edited by Maniac (edited 03-22-2000).]
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I love the one mstake and your dead aspect of AH. It is as close as a sim can come to the R L fear of death. There are BIG guns out there, and people who know how to use them. I went back and tried the new ver. of that other sim. For me it was like a kiddy pool. I got sprayed as much aas 6 times and rtb. That was 6 screwups i got away with. Try that here.
I wish they would increase the bullit radius here even more. I get bouts of rubber bullits and an increase would help. But for the time being the 1c does pretty good at making up for lost packets, or what ever is caseing my problem.
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I can describe the entirety of a Spitfire MkXIVs armor (its my preferred mount so I'm something of an expert about it).
Spitfire MkXIV Armor Distribution
There is an armor plate between the engine and the propeller nose cone.
The fuel tank, between the enging and the cockpit, is self sealing.
The front plate of the canopy is bullet proof (could stop a 20mm shell in a head on).
There is an armor plate in front of each ammuntion box in the wings.
There are two armor plates behind the pilot (first seen in the MkXIV.) because one plate was not enough to stop a 30mm shell. The plates are separated by about six inches. 30mm shell hits the first and explodes, then the second plate stops the shrapnel from killing the pilot.
That is all of the armor on a Spitfire MkXIV
Sisu
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I think you guys need to ask yourself if you want to fly a sim where the emphasis is on ACM and out manoeuvering your opponent where there is a 'fair' chance of evading. Where if someone makes a 'good' attack and gets in a solid burst they are rewarded with a kill or whether the emphasis is on Quake? Judging from some of the responses here it looks like AH is geared towards the Quake crowd. Thats fine if you happen to like it like that. Don't you think you might actually learn something if you had it the other way around?
Does anyone horizontal scissor in AH?
Does anyone vertical scissor in AH?
Does anyone barrel roll with rudder assist in AH?
Do you people roll into lag pursuit to keep your energy up until you can pull lead for a shot?
Do you people put your lift vector on the guy after the merge?
Or do you take off, climb, dive, bladder... rince and repeat?
I notice in some of the threads on this board people already leaving AH because they are pissed off with the climb into the stratosphere and the one ping and your dead mentality. Like I say it is a no-brainer. Its not going to encourage good pilots to move over to AH. The only people that will be influenced are those not willing to pay for Warbirds because of the high online per hour charges.
If Warbirds and AH are exactly the same price. Flate rate, all you can eat. The connects are the same and it comes down to which sim is the best.
Would you fly the one with the "climb, dive, bladder... rince and repeat" mentality or would you fly the one that awarded people who flew well and got reasonable shots in where the 'combat' environment was 'balanced'?
Regards
Daren
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Beaz aka ==bz==
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing
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"Does anyone horizontal scissor in AH?
Does anyone vertical scissor in AH?
Does anyone barrel roll with rudder assist in AH?
Do you people roll into lag pursuit to keep your energy up until you can pull lead for a shot?
Do you people put your lift vector on the guy after the merge? "
Absolutely.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-22-2000).]
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Originally posted by juzz:
But are PK's even in AH? I never had one.
It's a pilot kill when you suddenly find yourself back at the tower, instead of spinning down towards the earth in your crippled plane. The "Aircraft as a projectile" hasn't been implemented yet, as it for instance also vanishes when you bail out.
Originally posted by bloom25:
he could pour 100s of rounds into an enemy and he was still flying, yet when he got hit once, he lost a wing. He had this happen 3 times in a row and logged off rather angry.
I don't believe that you are sure to hear a ping for every bullet that hits you. They might hit at same time, but I also have a feeling that if you recieve a concentrated ammount of hits to for instance your wing and it then is shot off, you won't hear all the hits before your hear the wing damage sound. AH will skip to the chase and maybe give you one ping warning and then give the wing damage sound.
Well that is just my own belief of how it works.
Try to ask your shooter if he only hit you once next time you experience this. Because in his FE he sees all the hits.
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Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Well, I am going to try and be a little more civil in my response, than in the accusation that I am nothing but a "Quake" pilot.
FYI I too flew Warbirds for quite some time, from ver 0.99 to ver 2.75, when 3 weeks ago I canceled my account there. I also flew (and still fly) with a highly regarded squadron in Warbirds, that was quite successful in both the MA and for the short time we flew in the S3 series, the **MOL**.
So please keep the condescenion to a minimum.
Yes the gunnery is more deadly, ie in my opinon, more realistic (not a hack on WB's, just my opinon). Go read Hotseats post on the Hispano on his design board where he repeatedly states that the lethality of WB's is turned down considerably for playability.
But to answer your other question Beaz, yes ALL the ACM you mentioned is quite effect here in Aces High. If you wish, Im sure many people here will spend time in teh Trainging Arena with you too prove it.
The only difference is that the timing is different, and usually you have to begin the manuever slightly earlier than you do in Warbirds. This coupled with a more demanding E model, means that you can't perform more than a few evasives, before the bad guy gets you, if you screw up.
My suggestion would be to try out your free two weeks before you form a decision on the games. They are different, and are gonna feel quite different, until you get some reasonable AH stick time. Don't form you opinon on what a few people spout off here, form in on your own experience.
Sorry if I seem a little miffed here, but I don't know how many times someone from WB's comes in here and immediately tells us we're a bunch of "Quake Pilots", without realizing that many of the pilots here came from the exact same place they did, and have just as much experience. Especially, when it is someone who I have had alot of respect for in the past, and who should know better.
All that said, I hope to see the Tangmere Wing here in AH soon, as I have enjoyed the encounters I have had with them in the past.
[edit: Don't believe the hype! Contrary to all the talk about "common 800+ yard kills" not a single person has yet produced guncam's, showing they can do it consistently.]
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-22-2000).]
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Thus spake Beaz:
I think you guys need to ask yourself if you want to fly a sim where the emphasis is on ACM and out manoeuvering your opponent where there is a 'fair' chance of evading.
I agree 100% with you here, Beaz. OTOH, with AH's current state of development, I could live without it getting to this level until more strat and vehicles/planes are introduced. So while I agree with you that this is the goal, I would be ok with leaving it as is until my primary goal of more strat is added.
One more thing, Beaz. Just because everyone else doesn't jump on your band wagon right away, doesn't necessarily mean that they are "Quakers". There can be middle ground here. Just remember that "realism" in a sim is all relative. I haven't heard many cries for drop tanks from the Warbirds camp lately.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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Does anyone horizontal scissor in AH?
Does anyone vertical scissor in AH?
Does anyone barrel roll with rudder assist in AH?
Do you people roll into lag pursuit to keep your energy up until you can pull lead for a
shot?
Do you people put your lift vector on the guy after the merge?
hell yes
and it works too.
(just steer clear of the cannon hawgs. g-d-r)
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Does anyone horizontal scissor in AH?
Does anyone vertical scissor in AH?
Does anyone barrel roll with rudder assist in AH?
Do you people roll into lag pursuit to keep your energy up until you can pull lead for a shot?
Do you people put your lift vector on the guy after the merge?
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I do all of the above and so do most of the regular sticks here. There are still issues regarding rubber bullets and front aspect shot's etc. But all in all the plane mix here is better balanced than I've seen elsewhere. Although the issue of hi hogs is certainly real, the only plane poorely equipped to deal with the threat currently is the the 38. Once the better flap modeling is enabled I think it's poor roll rate will be less of an issue.
When you sign up come on by the training area, you'll find some pretty good T&B action most of the time.
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Nash mentioned that he thought:
ammo and the damage it inflicts is modelled. Each AC's armour, however, is not (yet).
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Nash, I think you are correct!
Yeager
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Ok... good this is getting somewhere. You can use all the manoeuvres that you have spent possibly many years perfecting in "other" sims. Brand "W" for instance. Sounds good. I will enjoy testing this out.
You have other threads on this board to name but a few which talk about people feeling a little 'peeved' about the HO's and wishing to do something about it. Someone even suggests a gentlemans agreement on not HOing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Good luch with that campaign (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)Hardly rocket science, or even clever, pulling into someone for an HO shot and yet people appear to do this all the time instead of positioning themselves properly. Is this the norm? Is it that these people just don't know any ACM? Certainly sounds like it to me. If someone comes at you then you have no choice but to turn into the attack to cut the angle. This is basic ACM. Do people barrel roll on the merge to spoil the other guys aim? Or does doing that waste too much energy in AH so that you are at the mercy of the guy diving on you?
You also have another thread where people 'boast' about the number of kills they have had in 1 sortie. Correct me if I'm wrong but the greatest someone seems to have been 17. That's pretty impressive. The greatest number of kills in 1 sortie in brand "W" is 17. That's in all the time that brand "W" has been in existance and the greatest number of kills in one sortie is 17.
On the other hand AH is only into tour number 2 after the beta and already someone has posted a 1 sortie killing spree of 17. That's not to say that pilots in AH are any better or worse than pilots in brand "W" but yet AH posts a score of 17 and in only its second tour. That just smells rather fishy to me... odd! Sounds like its just too easy to get kills? It should be damn tough to get 6, 7 or 8 kills in one sortie. The Spitfire was regarded as a 2 kill wonder. Climb like a bat out of hell, kill, come back down again. The greatest number of kills by a Spitfire in WWII in one sortie was 5. Yet several people have posted 13 kills in a sortie several times already (probably not in Spits). This is unheard of in brand "W". Not to say that its wrong. It just sounds rather fishy to me. Can someone explain to me how that can be possible?
Regards
Daren
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Beaz aka ==bz==
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing
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For one, to my understanding, most people here have much more sticktime than RL pilots did in WWII. This means that we probably also have vastly better gunnery skills coupled with the fact that there are perfect conditions in the arena at all times (except for the rare cloud).
Have you ever read the fighter stories from WWII? The fighter pilots (with wingmen) usually ran into small groups of planes, 5 or 6. This means that you don't really have the opportunity to get more than that number of kills, even if you personally shoot down every plane.
Planes weren't exactly able to CAP a field, as in to say that planes weren't constantly upping from the field. Therefore they didn't get the opportunity for the vulch.
We have far more planes in a much smaller area in the arena than in RL, so your plane/sq mile ration is very high.
The F4u-1c has an amazing amount of ammo, I personally had a 9 kill sortie with 400 rounds left in both ammo counters. The FW has a ton of cannon rounds too.
Well, if that helps, your welcome.
Thzone (returned but still not playing)
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PLEASE, before this turns into a flame war, let's not point fingers or turn this into an "us VS them" comparison. That was not my intent. My intent is for us to have a good discussion on the guns/armor of AH...period.
I came back to AH for the guns...the STRONG guns. I just think they need to be turned down a slight amount. This would make for better (and longer) dogfights, yet still reward the pilot that makes a good bounce. It would discourage the HO shooters to a small degree. And it would also make the ack less deadly, thereby making jabo runs a valid tactic.
If not the guns, then I'd like to see the armor either modelled (if it isn't yet) or made slightly stronger.
Hobo
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Re: high killing sprees:
This is possible mostly due to the high lethality of cannons especially during the beta period before kinetic damage at range was tuned down. All those very high kill rates are from excellent pilots running a vulch. In truth a good shot here can kill a plane taking off with as little as 5 or 10 hispano along a wing tip or root and letting the plane spin into the ground. I think the highest I ever saw was Mitsu who had 21 using a spit Mk IX, he used his cannon rounds first then when he ran out he used 50 cal to damage wings and pick up kills when they crashed.
That being said, in combat in my experience lethality is actually pretty fair. I drive an La-5FN and in a solid shot 10-20 ShVAK will land around 5 or 10 hits and do enough damage to knock a plane out of the sky. In a mustang I usually use bursts of 50-150 rds and with anything over 10 rds hit I can expect serious damage, probably a kill if they are converged on one area. and 30mm tends to be lethal with 1-2 hits just as it should be (avoid the 109 experten like the plague!). In general planes tend to be able to sustain 1-2 strikes with damage being survivable or unnoticed depending where it hits but after that things get broken real fast. Also in AH there are 64 or more seperate areas a bullet or cannon round can strike, pass through or affect upon explosion in the plane. Quite often glancing .50 cal hits will break things on my plane but leave me flying. like wise I have pasted the tail of a B-26 with 6 ShVAK from the side and had it still fly away seemingly unhurt with just his saddle guns gone.
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[This message has been edited by Rommel (edited 03-23-2000).]
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Hi beaz & all you excellent pilots from brand "W".
1.This sim is in progress as everyone knows
and i hope it will be forever.
2.There are a bunch of really good AH pilots
(most of them former Brand "W" pilots), who
enjoy themselves spending their time in
this sim.
3.Yes, as in every other sim most of the
people(including me) want to change this
or that.
4.HTC is a very small company with great
customer support + nice people, who work
hard to get things right + they seem to
love their work.
5.I would prefer to see new pilots trying out
the 2 free weeks of flying rather than to
start some kind of investigation on the AH
BB.C'on guys, what's the problem here, just
try it - than jugde.
blitz (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
As for the discussion: Canons a tad back + 50cal a tad more agressive would be my choice.
[This message has been edited by blitz (edited 03-23-2000).]
[This message has been edited by blitz (edited 03-23-2000).]
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C'on guys, what's the problem here, just
try it - than jugde.
I will... and no there is no problem.
Just highlighting the fact that on your own BB there appear to be certain subjects that seem to be all pointing towards the fact that the guns are too strong. Hobo asked the question not myself.
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Hi beaz,
nice to see at the skies of AH soon - at least for 2 weeks. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
blitz
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Beaz;
I only wonder how much time you have played AH?
Alot of what you have state makes no sense to me. Keep in mind that I am very green, having played online sims for only 3 years. AH since early Beta.
I do not read the WB's BBS, but I am starting to get the idea of what goes on there via your progression into this BBS.
I did not like AH at all in the beginning, but now I do. Irregardless, I hope you come to like AH and change your opinion. In final evaluation I suspect that it becomes what you are used to, and what you prefer.
At in rate good luck to you!
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
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Hobo,
One thing to remember. I believe it was HT that told me that with the graphics limitations that missing wings or stabs etc are not really gone but not useable as a flight surface. In order to show them not fuctioning correctly they are removed. If an aileron is unable to redirect airflow properly due to damage it is removed from the plane as an indicator. I am sure that this will change bit by bit as the game progresses in development. I have flown since the first beta tour and have enjoyed everybit of it. I don't think that the guns are too big, I think the pilot skill is extrememly high. And as long as people ride out the early stages then we as a community can help HTC make the game better as we go (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SALUTE!
Rocket
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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
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[This message has been edited by Rocket (edited 03-23-2000).]