Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Baloo on March 26, 2012, 01:35:04 PM
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Looking to improve my JABO skills...I'm a 38 pilot, and well have learned how to not auger the hard way...but my accuracy is chit. Sometimes I get lucky, most times not - I want to be able to do it as a sure thing. I was wondering if you guys can feed me your approach to a successful JABO mission. I've read mathman's tactic, I have a hard time straightening out my plane and holding it steady - I have pedals too, fast enough as to not auger - diving at the right angle, how do you know? I know practice makes perfect, I'm just looking for ideas I may try that you find successful. Thanks for the future advice in advance. <S>
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I use a 60-70 degree angle in dive, slightly throttled back during the descent. I drop at about 1.5k from target and begin pull out engaging throttle completely to recover altitude and shake pursuers. You might want to take a look at some of the great JABO gunsights out there. I use a double pip, one dot on top for guns, one dot below for where my bombs and rockets will impact when dropped or fired. Practice, practice, practice will make perfect Sir. Happy bombing!
:salute
Way
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Baloo,
Try going into the training arena,we have aids to assist you with aiming both bombs and rockets.
This can help you setup a sight picture and reference points to help with your accuracy. The TA has a lead calculating gunsight,lead calculating bombsight and rockets.
You can also enable these aids for offline practice,goto arena settings,look for {flightmodeflags} then select change,this will open a window that will give you some options. Select lead calculating gunsight and divebomb,the divebomb sight will activate automatically when you load bombs and/or rockets,to activate the gunsight press CTRL TAB,this will enable friendly lock then press tab when you have your target insight and you will see a set of crosshairs that will appear to show you how much lead you need to hit the target.
Hope this helps and if on see me in the TA just ask for some help and I'll set you up so you can practice whenever you like!
:salute
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Go to this thread and get USRangers new bomb range terrain. Be sure to get the 2nd version which is found later in the thread.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,330590.0.html
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From our website: http://www.fw190.org/training1.htm .
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The key to accurate dive bombing is consistency. If you want to use the same sight picture you have to use the same dive angle, speed, and release altitude. This is best done by setting up your approach the same way. Start at a consistent altitude above your target. If you approach perpendicular to the target you can roll and point your wing at the target and use your bank angle gauge to get an idea of the dive angle, just allow for your head height above the wing. As Waystin mentioned 60-70 degrees is generally good, just be sure you don't get too fast in the P-38, use a shallower angle if you need to. Rudder trim is important but shouldn't be an issue in a P-38. If you use an air spawn field in the training arena, like A23, you can easily practice consistency in dive angle, speed, and release altitude. If you load the TA arena for offline training as Morfiend suggested you can damage the target when you practice.
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Just wanted to chime in on this topic since after giving many of the same tips and then riding along with a newer player I've seen a repeated mistake. When you are setting up that "consistent dive angle" your target should be out of view underneath you. The mistake made is that players tend to try to keep the target in sight, and in doing so are decending and creating a shallow dive angle. Be patient. Dip your wing periodically to find where you are at in respect to the target. (edit: My preference is to keep a heading a few 100 yards right of the target so I can dip the left wing to gauge the target) But continue to keep your altitude until you are over top the target enough to enter at the desired angle.
Using the training arena is an excellent idea for getting a feel for the dive angle you need to achieve. With too shallow an angle you can see the + of the predicted impact move across the terrain and through the target leaving a brief window to hit the target. Too steep a dive and you'll find the + will be touchy and hard to keep on target. But inside the correct dive angle window you'll find you can hold that + on the target from the top of the dive until it's time to pull out.
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Baloo,
If you catch me in the MA, PM. Will be glad to help. Name is the same.
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Much appreciated for all the tips fellas <S> Guess I'll be spending some time in the TA, and I'll be sure to hit up you guys who've offered to help in game, thank you again!
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i think the mistake most people make is releasing the bombs at varying AOA and thus never getting the feel of the bombs trajectory.
you have to start the dive, choose your aim point, then unload the stick, and bring rudder to mid before releasing bombs.
when you're pulling out of the dive before you release your bombs it is hard to tell where your flight path is taking your bombs. and if you're using rudder right before the drop... forget about it.
keep practicing with the same dive angle. when i was a dive bombing noob i dived at 90 degrees to the target and rarely missed. gravity doesn't effect your trajectory when bombs are falling straight down.
the link fuzeman posted is pretty spot on.
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Go to this thread and get USRangers new bomb range terrain. Be sure to get the 2nd version which is found later in the thread.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,330590.0.html
AWESOME! Thank you very much, that is exactly what anyone needs. On a similar note, the 190 site is also great for reading up on tactics, thank you guys again! Hope one day...all your bases belong to us. <S>
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Come fly with the 113th Lucky Strikes, we a JABO squad, we fly P38's as Knights, Saturday evening 7:00PM EST. Vox 113. Come wing up for a flight or an hour or evening. We have trained a lot of pilots in the art of a single pass take down of any hanger in the game. Check out the film library of our wiki page.
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Some helpful information on the subject with screen shots to give you a better picture of whats going on. http://thesquad.forumotion.net/t40-gunsights-can-make-all-the-difference
Here's a couple (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss26.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/A8accuraterocketTEXT.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss28.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss29.jpg)
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Since "angle of attack" has a specific meaning in aerodynamics it's likely to be confusing when you use it to mean dive angle. It's also helpful to tell people the dive angle, speed, and weapons release altitude that goes along with the sight pictures you posted since changing any one of those will change the impact point.
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Pro tips:
1. Start slow if you can afford it - it gives you more time to aim before you reach critical speeds or the ground. Best is to start the dive with a zoom up to burn some speed (but saving energy). It also gives you a brief moment for SA and target acquisition as you roll inverted for the dive. Consider reducing throttle during the dive to extend it even more.
2. Put your nose where you guess you need to point, then go into 0-G. Yes use the G-meter. In that state, your trajectory is close to that of a bomb. The dive angle will steepen steadily, but within a fraction of a second you'll get the feeling of where you will hit the ground - if it happens to be on the target then release (still at 0-G) and pull out. If not, either correct or pull out without releasing and try again.
3. In 3 out of 4 cases, you will have the option to choose the direction from which you dive. Do yourself a favor and go PAST the target, then dive facing the friendly side. Too many players pull out at 500 mph and run very fast and very far into enemy air. Use that speed to get away, not to get into even more trouble.After that, don't be a sissy - pull out your guns and go die in A2A like a man.
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take the thousand pounders too. You'll suffer a performance penalty, of course, but the increase in blast damage makes up for it. In any event, if you find yourself engaged en route to your target, you'll likely ditch the eggs anyway.
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Pro tips:
2. Put your nose where you guess you need to point, then go into 0-G. Yes use the G-meter. In that state, your trajectory is close to that of a bomb. The dive angle will steepen steadily, but within a fraction of a second you'll get the feeling of where you will hit the ground - if it happens to be on the target then release (still at 0-G) and pull out. If not, either correct or pull out without releasing and try again.
The pro's don't dive at 0 G to deliver ords. If you're in freefall you have no control over the impact point. You also accelerate too quickly at 0 G even with your engine off. A consistent dive angle in the range of 45-60 degrees will generally give the best results.
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The pro's don't dive at 0 G to deliver ords. If you're in freefall you have no control over the impact point. You also accelerate too quickly at 0 G even with your engine off. A consistent dive angle in the range of 45-60 degrees will generally give the best results.
In a dive you are at G<1 anyway. The steeper it is the closer you are to 0G, so the difference in acceleration is insignificant.
You dont aim the bombs while in 0G - you check your aim point. The fact that the future impact point does not change is the whole point (pun intended). It gives you a second to estimate it, without it changing all the time. You also dont need to hold 0G for more than a second. Looks good? release, no? correct, go into 0G again. What happens to many players is that they start from 12k or so, dive and then correct, not sure, correct, not sure, correct, not sure... oops about to crach, release in panic, miss, hit the ground. 0G gives a very intuitive feeling to where you will hit, without any aids. As a result, the player is confident in releasing from a higher altitude. It teaches you to get it right in the first or second guess, instead of walking the fuzzy future impact point along the ground, loosing altitude while you wait for it to reach the target. The latter is great if you have a CCIP computer and a HUD. We don't.
Of course, a real pro can release the bomb while in a 6G spiral dive, looking back, typing profanity on channel 200, and still hit the target.
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That may work for you but I think a shallower angle is better when you're learning to dive bomb. You don't need a CCIP. You can use your sight picture if you learn to consistently fly the same attack profile.
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I only fly P38s.
My method is to approach with a 12K alt advantage.
Roll upside down and when my target is halfway between the canopy support and forward support, I chop throttle , engage "brakes" and roll level-wing in my dive, keeping my target in view the whole time; from commitment to pullout.
I generally pull out and extend away at around 1500 ft.
Works for me . . . but as the saying goes, "you're mileage may vary."
Check my stats, you'll see that I am much better at attack than fighter.
But I'm working on it. :old:
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From our website: http://www.fw190.org/training1.htm .
Where can you download the Jabo gunsight?