Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MK-84 on March 29, 2012, 06:07:21 PM
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On the hog, why is the single droptank taken mounted offset to the left, common sense would dictate that since it wants to roll that way from torque that would make the problem worse. But thats how it is, and there must be a reason. Any ideas?
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On the hog, why is the single droptank taken mounted offset to the left, common sense would dictate that since it wants to roll that way from torque that would make the problem worse. But thats how it is, and there must be a reason. Any ideas?
I have copies of the American "Pilot's Manual for F4U Corsair" and the British "Pilot's Notes for Corsair I-IV" and I can find no mention anywhere of the drop tank being offset to the left - the release control handle is on the left side of the instrument panel but that's about all. The American manual notes that the "left wing tends to be slightly heavy just as the airplane becomes airborne, due to the high torque reaction." for which 6° Right Wing Down set on the aileron tab would compensate, otherwise nothing is mentioned in regard to re-trimming when carrying the centreline drop tank, which is what would be expected if it was offset to the left.
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otherwise nothing is mentioned in regard to re-trimming when carrying the centreline drop tank, which is what would be expected if it was offset to the left.
he is not refering to the F4U-1 or the F4U-1A.......... he is talking about the single tank on the F4U-1C or F4U-1D or F4U4............ after the right tank is dropped, I would think?????
the others ( F4U-1 and F4U-1A ) are the only 2 to carry a single tank, which is middle mounted........
TC
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and to add......
MK-84, Sir............... it is because those mounts for the tanks/or bombs are already there......they are hard mounts unlike the center mount for the 1st 2 versions of hogs...........
TC
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and to add......
MK-84, Sir............... it is because those mounts for the tanks/or bombs are already there......they are hard mounts unlike the center mount for the 1st 2 versions of hogs...........
TC
But why not design it to release the other tank first so that the remaining tank helps to stabilize the aircraft instead of making the heavy wing heavier? At least I think that that is what Mk84 is asking.
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he is not refering to the F4U-1 or the F4U-1A.......... he is talking about the single tank on the F4U-1C or F4U-1D or F4U4............ after the right tank is dropped, I would think?????
the others ( F4U-1 and F4U-1A ) are the only 2 to carry a single tank, which is middle mounted........
TC
:aok :bolt: 'nway Referring again to the pilot's manual a selector switch and release controls to the left of the seat allowed the pilot to release either one or both of the tanks (or bombs) manually or electrically, depending on the systems installed... :pray
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I do not recall there being a need for the drop tank to be mounted on the lh side. The last -4 I mounted a tank to, we mounted in on the RH side as I recall. Both sides are more than capable of feeding, especially with the boost pump sucking them dry. I can look in my manuals, but am fairly sure it is not dictated one way or the other.
As for weight, I know a couple of hog owners and none has complained about the tanks hanging one side or the other, so I imagine it is not much of an issue.
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No, I mean you can select a single droptank in the hanger, but it hangs offset to the left instead of on the right which I would have thought would make more sense.
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No, I mean you can select a single droptank in the hanger, but it hangs offset to the left instead of on the right which I would have thought would make more sense.
As Bodhi noted the offset tank doesn't have enough effect to worry about.
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As Bodhi noted the offset tank doesn't have enough effect to worry about.
Right, but that has nothing do with answering my question.
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Dunno...(This is an F4u-5, the funny pod is radar, I think
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/bj229r/Dayton/DSC_0165.jpg)
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As Bodhi noted the offset tank doesn't have enough effect to worry about.
Right, but that has nothing do with answering my question.
...which translates into if it has no effect in real life, it is modeled the same in the game which means it has little or no effect in the game.
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I remember being on VOX with Bodhi one day. He got going (as he usually does) and asks: "what did you do today?" I told him I went to work and had a pretty uneventful day. He replied: "well, I installed a windshield on a Corsair today". I felt like a lame arse after that.
:bolt: :ahand
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...which translates into if it has no effect in real life, it is modeled the same in the game which means it has little or no effect in the game.
I'm not wondering about game aspects at all. I'm wondering WHY. If the previous picture is a radar pod, it's still weight on the left side of the airframe, which supports the concept of a single side left droptank. But the question is why?
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The weight of the tank (6.84 lbs/gal * 150gallons = 1026lbs)? About the same as a 1000lb bomb.
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I remember being on VOX with Bodhi one day. He got going (as he usually does) and asks: "what did you do today?" I told him I went to work and had a pretty uneventful day. He replied: "well, I installed a windshield on a Corsair today". I felt like a lame arse after that.
:bolt: :ahand
Windscreen! I also frugged up and broke one as I recall too.
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I'm not wondering about game aspects at all. I'm wondering WHY. If the previous picture is a radar pod, it's still weight on the left side of the airframe, which supports the concept of a single side left droptank. But the question is why?
Its just a matter of whichever side you hook it up on it does not matter which side. So maybe when HT was modelling it he saw more pictures with a single tank on the left then on the right. Or he just picked the left.
(BTW the radar pod would be the big white thing in the wing...)
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But why not design it to release the other tank first so that the remaining tank helps to stabilize the aircraft instead of making the heavy wing heavier? At least I think that that is what Mk84 is asking.
just by looking at the pictures of the real life F4U-5, it is clear to see that the hardmounts for the drop tanks or 1k Bombs is so close to centerline that it pobably would be null or close to it regarding weight distribution / trimming for weight balance or what have you.... my view anyways
regarding heavier wings, I don't think you are thinking the wings in the later models have fuel cells............ only the F4U-1 & -1A are the heavy wings relating to fuel...... the torque issue was there from the beginning ........ because they wanted that big arse WASP radial engine :D
Bodhi is one lucky fella to have a job like his
:airplane: <--- Big & Blue ...... love em
cheers
TC
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just by looking at the pictures of the real life F4U-5, it is clear to see that the hardmounts for the drop tanks or 1k Bombs is so close to centerline that it pobably would be null or close to it regarding weight distribution / trimming for weight balance or what have you.... my view anyways
regarding heavier wings, I don't think you are thinking the wings in the later models have fuel cells............ only the F4U-1 & -1A are the heavy wings relating to fuel...... the torque issue was there from the beginning ........ because they wanted that big arse WASP radial engine :D
Bodhi is one lucky fella to have a job like his
:airplane: <--- Big & Blue ...... love em
cheers
TC
It is not close enough to the centerline for there not to be a very specific reason as to use a single tank on the left side. I am asking in terms "the reason why" beyond AH assuming that AH is modeling that load out correctly.
Again, because this keeps coming up, I understand in our game it makes little difference. I get that. Moving on...Why is it on the left?
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The weight of the tank (6.84 lbs/gal * 150gallons = 1026lbs)? About the same as a 1000lb bomb.
100/130 avgas weighs 6.029 lbs per gallon, or just over 904 lbs per 150 gallons.
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It is not close enough to the centerline for there not to be a very specific reason as to use a single tank on the left side. I am asking in terms "the reason why" beyond AH assuming that AH is modeling that load out correctly.
Again, because this keeps coming up, I understand in our game it makes little difference. I get that. Moving on...Why is it on the left?
Maybe HT saw more pictures with it on the left then on the right. The point is why bother? They may have flipped a coin for all we know.
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No, I mean you can select a single droptank in the hanger, but it hangs offset to the left instead of on the right which I would have thought would make more sense.
ok, MK-84, if you don't mind Sir, why do you think that it would make more sense for it to be on the right when selecting a single Drop Tank in the Hangar for the F4U-1C, -1D and -4 F4U planes ?
since none of these planes have fuel cells in their wings......
TC
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Easy answer: because when you carry a bomb and a drop tank at the same time you will likely drop the tank first. Maybe its easier to code it once?
If you look on the cover of "in detail & scale" for the F4U (Part 2) all of the planes on the carrier deck have one tank and they are on the right wing. I believe they are F4U-4s. Same thing on pg 37 (F4U-4s).
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Dunno...(This is an F4u-5, the funny pod is radar, I think
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m248/bj229r/Dayton/DSC_0165.jpg)
That plane (An F4U-5NE) came to the museum I work at. I got to sit in it! :D The NE stands for night fighter all weather. That model had de-icing boots on the wings.
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That plane (An F4U-5NE) came to the museum I work at. I got to sit in it! :D The NE stands for night fighter all weather. That model had de-icing boots on the wings.
VERY COOL! :aok
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Perhaps they were thinking along the line of taking one drop tank and a 1000lb bomb.....
.... in theory, the drop tank would be dropped first, then later the bomb, leaving the heavier weight on the right side of the A/C.
Once they did this, maybe they just left it as is for when selecting just one to make coding/modeling easier?
Just a thought....
-INCOMING
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Perhaps they were thinking along the line of taking one drop tank and a 1000lb bomb.....
.... in theory, the drop tank would be dropped first, then later the bomb, leaving the heavier weight on the right side of the A/C.
Once they did this, maybe they just left it as is for when selecting just one to make coding/modeling easier?
Just a thought....
-INCOMING
Thats kinda the answer I was looking for. Was hoping someone had data or something to show why. Again this is a question out of curiousity, not trying to prove or disprove a thing.
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So, looking through one of my F4U books (and to stir the pot)...
Motorbooks International Warbird History. F4U Corsair, Combat, Development, and Racing History (Nicholas Veronico, with John and Donna Campbell).
In the photos in the book, in every case where a radar pod has been mounted (on the starboard wing) the drop tank was mounted on the port side. This would almost seem logical, if they were making some effort to balance the ship?
However...
In the rest of the photos, the single tank is mounted on the starboard side!
They're either mounted in pairs, as singles on the center point (including on planes that are identified as F4U-1D's!) or as singles on the starboard point.
I see photos of F4U-4's with a single tank mounted on the right (and NONE with the single mounted on the left).
This includes photos with a DT mounted on the right, with a 500# bomb on the left... Again, this would seem logical if the intent was to drop the bomb, but bring the DT back to reuse it...
Now, I wouldn't want to jump to the assumption that it was more common to mount it on the right than the left, but based on the photos in this book, it was common, at least, to do so. And the practice occurred during WWII, as well as after with the use of the later-model F4U's.
I've also looked at the photos closely, making sure they hadn't just been printed in reverse... The difference between these photos, and the ones that I generally see when I do a Google search for images is that these are older photos..
Here's one that's in my book-
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/worldwariiaircraft/ig/American-WWII-Fighters/F4U-Corsair.htm
And another-
http://phoenixv.hubpages.com/hub/F4U-Corsair
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ok, MK-84, if you don't mind Sir, why do you think that it would make more sense for it to be on the right when selecting a single Drop Tank in the Hangar for the F4U-1C, -1D and -4 F4U planes ?
since none of these planes have fuel cells in their wings......
TC
I not sure I understand how not having fuel cells in the wings relates?
But the torque of the aircraft will want to pull the plane to the left. Since the droptank is offset to the left as well this would only exasperate the tendency to roll left. Putting the tank on the right side would help to balance the effects of torque.
Basically it seems that the aircraft would be better balanced with a single tank on the right as opposed to on the left. I am working with the assumption that our game models correctly this particular loadout. So the question remains as to why this seemingly odd arrangement.