Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 33Vortex on April 05, 2012, 02:28:33 PM
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If any heli pilots out there, what's your take on this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5aMT9MBfZI) accident? Who is to blame, the pilot or the cable pulling guy, and why do you think so?
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I would say it was the guy with the cable. Nothing the chopper pilot could have done when the cable was snapped taut.
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cable guy.
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paging RTR. Please pick up the white courtesy phone.
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I say its the heli guys fault. IMO. Why would you land with the cable still attached. Not a good idea. Should have disconnected prior to landing. Even without the cable guy pulling on it, the rotor wash would move the cable around for a blade or tail strike.
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I say its the heli guys fault. IMO. Why would you land with the cable still attached. Not a good idea. Should have disconnected prior to landing. Even without the cable guy pulling on it, the rotor wash would move the cable around for a blade or tail strike.
^^^
This! Why would the pilot even attempt to land with the cable attached? Clearly it wasnt long enough to stay clear and I'm 100% positive the pilot has control to detach the cable at anytime
:salute
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I say its the heli guys fault. IMO. Why would you land with the cable still attached. Not a good idea. Should have disconnected prior to landing. Even without the cable guy pulling on it, the rotor wash would move the cable around for a blade or tail strike.
:huh Why do you all assume that the heli was landing?
The cable was supposed to release from the top of the tree and failed. Standard practice was for the heli to hover low and the rigging supervisor to release the line from under the heli. He was not supposed to grab it.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/6169892/Chopper-crash-rigger-disputes-report
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Interesting,I'd have thought the pilot could release the cable but it doesnt appear to be the case.
From what I read it looks like blame can be had from both pilot and rigger,it said the pilot wasnt supposed to drop below the tower height and the rigger shouldnt have grabbed the cable.
Accidents happen,live and learn! :aok
:salute
PS: thanx for the link Vulcan.
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This was ultimately the pilots fault. The procedure he used to set the tower was totally bellybutton backwards and dangerous. Anytime you have a line on the belly and the other end is above you is a disaster waiting to happen. I don't know or work with any other pilots who would even think of doing this in that way.
What he needed to do was use a powered longline with a remote hook on the end that attaches to the tower. Set the tower, release the tower from the remote hook and fly the line away with him to a safe place to land.
I have landed with my line attached to the belly hook countless times, but I keep the line below me all the time.
The guy on the ground was an idiot as well, but the pilot should never have agreed to fly that load like that, and in general it looks like everyone was really poorly briefed.
Also, I have heard that he was unable to release the line (maybe an unfounded rumour) due to malfunctioning electrical and mechanical release systems on the helicopter. This would be pretty rare, but at any rate having the line above you is a pretty dangerous time to release it as well.
Bottom line is pilot error. He should never have allowed this "procedure" to take place.
cheers,
RTR
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Line man he grabbed the cable and when he pulled taut the line went in the rotor, pilot had bout 2 secs to see it and who knows what he was lookin at that time the ground guide the cable or any other numerous things.
Pilot was doing the right thing unless he had the ability to cut the cord in that case it was a bad judgment call and he almost paid for it, also lucky the thing didnt catch fire with that fuel from the engine spraying out.
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I have a question, I'm guessing that it's not normal for the tail to break like that. Was it the cable that basically sliced the tail off?
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I have a question, I'm guessing that it's not normal for the tail to break like that. Was it the cable that basically sliced the tail off?
I can't tell if it hit anything from the video, but it wouldn't have to in order to snap in a situation like that. Suddenly all the torque that was going through the transmission to the main and tail rotor is all instantly transferred to the airframe and it rips itself apart.
I've never worked on ECs. But I have pulled tailbooms off Robinsons and Bells and I can tell you that they there isn't a lot holding them on there and a torque event like that would no doubt snap them like a twig.
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wow glad everyone is ok.. not an easy thing to walk away from in most cases. Pilot almost came out of the helicopter like a rag doll. glad he had his seat belt on.
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wow glad everyone is ok.. not an easy thing to walk away from in most cases. Pilot almost came out of the helicopter like a rag doll. glad he had his seat belt on.
Were there 2 people in the helicopter? It looked like someone got thrown out of the side almost.
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No just one guy but it did almost throw him see that another issue most of these guy fly alone as well so you lose that extra set of eyes. but anyway this seems like a pretty rare event at least the way it happened. Which now things will be changed to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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We fly alone when we are doing external load work because we are outside the height velocity curve, which means we are to low and slow to perform a successful autorotation and too high to have a good chance of survival in the event of an engine failure.
cheers,
RTR
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Ah, well Its always good to hear from someone who actually does this sort of work, Im trying to get that step myself one day.
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I'd have thought the pilot would never risk hitting the line by descending below the top of the tower but instead wait above it for riggers to climb the tower to detach the line. I guess it comes down to what was said and agreed upon in preflight. However the cause is very obvious, the rigger should not have done what he did. Looks like two minds made mistakes of judgement for this to happen, pilot and rigger both made bad calls.
My experience of flying is that regardless of what type of aircraft, from radio controlled hobby gadgets to machines carrying people, one can not be too meticulous about procedures and routines. Because a accident or fatality is just one or two steps away. Good routines are crucial to safe air ops and I think all professionals know that (at least they should! some ppl make you wonder though), on the hobby side it's so-and-so with that and people learn by experience from crashing instead. :lol
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On second look you can see the guy on the ground jump up and grab the cable. After the crash the guy is on the ground on his knees.. just to the right of the helo.