Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Banshee7 on April 11, 2012, 11:07:22 PM
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Who do you believe was the most influential European of the 20th century, and why?
This is a class project coming up in my 20th Century Europe class. I'd like to see what you guys have to say, especially since there are several Europeans here.
#S#
Josh
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I vote for Albert Einstein.
E=MC*C
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Not even close: Hitler.
His actions completely define and set the stage for the following 70 years for all of Europe. Even now with all the talk of bailing out Greece with a Eurobond this tracks back to German aggression during WW2 and German dominance sinc. The French still don't take a dump without wondering what the boss thinks.
Boo
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Not even close: Hitler.
His actions completely define and set the stage for the following 70 years for all of Europe. Even now with all the talk of bailing out Greece with a Eurobond this tracks back to German aggression during WW2 and German dominance sinc. The French still don't take a dump without wondering what the boss thinks.
Boo
Indeed. Einstein wouldn't be as big a factor without Hitler. Well it is hard to tell. Einstein wouldn't have came to the US and stimulated the Manhattan project without Hitler's prejudices. Perhaps Einstein would of did equally great things in germany?
Still Hitler is easily the answer.
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Sir Winston Churchill.
Runner Up: Lech Wałęsa
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Sir Winston Churchill.
Runner Up: Lech Wałęsa
But wouldn't you say that Hitler stimulated his greatness?
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Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
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Zack1234 :old:
He taught us about angst and dealing with unexpected difficulties in the relationship department.
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Nikola Tesla.
Without him electronics in any way would not exist.
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Nikola Tesla.
Without him electronics in any way would not exist.
...or the HAARP Death Ray :old: :noid :noid :noid :noid
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Hitler, without a doubt.
His actions sparked a war the convlused the entire world for 5 years. How many millions dead? How many more left homless, how many nations disappeared from the map as a result of that war? That war helped spurr the development of a weapon so terrible that its only twice been used in anger. It litterally set the stage for the cold war and the arms race. It helped establish the USA as a superpower. German rocket technology helped us reach space.
So many things can be traced back to him.
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Stalin might give old Adolf a run for his money considering he lasted longer and certainly influenced Hitler's decision making
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Nikola Tesla, beyond a doubt.
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:lol Hitler?! Hitler was a failure with 1 nut and bugs in the brain.
Dwight D. Eisenhower or Ronald Reagan was the most influential men of the last century IMO.
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Ferdinand Porsche[2] (3 September 1875 – 30 January 1951)
I'm not a car guy. I do respect those who take lemons and make Lamborghinis (Volkswagon owns Lamborghini and Porsce started Volkswagon). He with American Henry Ford, both changed how humans relied on the horseless carriage for everyday needs.
Some men may be charasmatic to start aggression and others to defend from aggression. It takes the thinkers and tinkers to make war happen. After the wars are over, to use that experience and create peaceful pursuits that everyday people utilize fosters a great accomplishment.
Take these suggestions and choose one that will fit your needs or choose someone not listed.
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Ferdinand Porsche[2] (3 September 1875 – 30 January 1951)
I'm not a car guy. I do respect those who take lemons and make Lamborghinis (Volkswagon owns Lamborghini and Porsce started Volkswagon). He with American Henry Ford, both changed how humans relied on the horseless carriage for everyday needs.
Some men may be charasmatic to start aggression and others to defend from aggression. It takes the thinkers and tinkers to make war happen. After the wars are over, to use that experience and create peaceful pursuits that everyday people utilize fosters a great accomplishment.
Take these suggestions and choose one that will fit your needs or choose someone not listed.
Henry Ford :aok that's a good one.
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Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.
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Hitler was not influential, that's entirely the incorrect adjective.
Banshee7, are you going to tell us what grade we get collectively if we help you with this class project? :banana:
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Still Tesla.
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Arguably the trigger (pun intended) of the greatest long-term effect on Europe with a minimum of input:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Gavrilloprincip.jpg/220px-Gavrilloprincip.jpg)
None other than Gavrilo Princip.
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Arguably the trigger (pun intended) of the greatest long-term effect on Europe with a minimum of input:
None other than Gavrilo Princip.
Good, but very argueabel as to the degree of influence.
Now for obscure but influential, I give you: Watson and Crick
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Monty Python
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
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:lol Hitler?! Hitler was a failure with 1 nut and bugs in the brain.
Dwight D. Eisenhower or Ronald Reagan was the most influential men of the last century IMO.
I never realized Eisenhower and Reagan were Europeans... :huh
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:lol Hitler?! Hitler was a failure with 1 nut and bugs in the brain.
Dwight D. Eisenhower or Ronald Reagan was the most influential men of the last century IMO.
Yep great Europeans indeed.
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Yep great Europeans indeed.
I agree. And Lincoln and Colt wus the most influential the century before that. :rock
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Hitler was incredibly influential, not for good but massively influential. There are literally hundreds of modern manifestations of Adolph Hitler and his Nazi Third Reich.
One somewhat random one would be our current military intelligence and the US State Dept. During the closing days of WW2 we began to realize that the next threat was the Communists of the Soviet Union. A significant hurdle was the fact that we had almost zero intelligence infrastructure into the Soviet Union. I think most historical buffs know how the Nazi rocket program became the basis of our own rocket program which ultimately lead to John Glenn in space and a man on the moon. Did you know that most of our European intelligence through CIA (former OSS) came through a similar adoption of the Nazi SS intelligence network throughout Europe and into the Soviet Union? On Monday they worked for Adolph and the Third Reich; On Tuesday they began to work for Donovan, the OSS and Truman.
I attended a lecture at BYU years back by a retired State Dept diplomat who provided an extensive history and many of the questions raised by the influence within the State Dept by this adoption. In fact, at some level DoD still looks at the State Dept with suspicion that is long a hold over from the distrust developed afterwards. Much to debate and watching State and DoD go back and forth is good sport.
Hitler's influence in our own intelligence leading to influence in thousands of policies. Much to debate there.
Boo
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While I admit that Hitler and Stalin were certainly influential, their scope is restricted somewhat.
They will always exist as examples of the level of evil that Man is capable of achieving.
Einstein, however, gave us knowledge and insight that is the framework for understanding our world at levels we still haven't achieved.
Look at all the hoopla generated when a bunch of scientists thought he might have actually been wrong about the speed of light limit.
Tesla would be right up there with him, imho, except he went and died before we could translate his brain into something we could comprehend.
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Gavrilo Princep.
He's the one who ignited the whole powder keg. Without WW1, there would not have been a Nazi party or WW2 for that matter. Without WW2, there likely would have been no cold war. No cold war, no NATO, probably not so much of a global market either
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Do you think he knew what he caused? Only if they had Scuz back then.
To nip it in the bud.
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Stalin, rule 256. you are png. Hitler, 1120 for being a jack but
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Forgot, I would png hitler.
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Give me PNG authority, I can clean this mess up pronto.
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Give me PNG authority, I can clean this mess up pronto.
:lol
Margaret Thatcher
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Reginald Mitchell
Nuff said.
zack1234 a close second.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Alexander_Fleming.jpg/220px-Alexander_Fleming.jpg)
Alexander Fleming.
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(http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/photos/2001/345/4323_1008204454.jpg)
Wernher von Braun
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The Rothchilds followed closely by Tesla............. :noid
:salute
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Ferdinand Porsche made a working diesel/electric car in 1901.
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Ferdinand Porsche made a working diesel/electric car in 1901.
Tesla powered a pearce arrow with a 25hp electric motor and a magic box of valves!
:salute
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Banshee7, are you going to tell us what grade we get collectively if we help you with this class project? :banana:
Only if you give me enough credible sources to site :banana:
I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone had to say and the differences in American/European responses. Of course, I picked Hitler. The number of lives he affected during and after the war made him stand out to me.
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Hitler was incredibly influential...
I disagree because I think influence means the capability to affect, manipulate or shape events, development, policy, doctrine etc. and Hitler totally failed to do this. Thankfully he was little more than the tragic end point of the distasteful European experimentation with fascism. Let's face it, his artwork sucked arse too.
It's hard to name one person because many have been influential in sequence. In addition to the others here mentioned, how about: Alan Turing, Marie Curie, Albert Einstein, Alexander Fleming, Richard Trevithick, Justin Bieber.
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Bond, James Bond.
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nrshida, by your definition Hitler did this in spades. He effected, at one point the lives of 100 million killed, designs of governments and international borders that remained points of contention for decades. He created leadership vacuums that were filled by other totalitarian regimes and concepts. His massacre of Jews ultimately lead to the birth of Israel and those tension points that have existed to this day.
I think we would need to go to Napoleon to find another egolamanic who has had such a massive impact on the world scene. As someone else noted Lenin is a close second in my mind, though he and Stalin played second fiddle to the Hitler vacuum. Even Mao received leverage he likely would not have received if it were not for the changing dynamics post-Hitler. All of this is of course, just my opinion.
Boo
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I never realized Eisenhower and Reagan were Europeans... :huh
doh! :o
Then my vote would have to be for Mr.Bean :banana:
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/mr-bean.jpg)
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Tim Berners-Lee?
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The Beatles
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nrshida, by your definition Hitler did this in spades. He effected, at one point the lives of 100 million killed, designs of governments and international borders that remained points of contention for decades. He created leadership vacuums that were filled by other totalitarian regimes and concepts. His massacre of Jews ultimately lead to the birth of Israel and those tension points that have existed to this day.
I think we would need to go to Napoleon to find another egolamanic who has had such a massive impact on the world scene. As someone else noted Lenin is a close second in my mind, though he and Stalin played second fiddle to the Hitler vacuum. Even Mao received leverage he likely would not have received if it were not for the changing dynamics post-Hitler. All of this is of course, just my opinion.
Boo
I do not dispute that he and his movement affected the lives of millions and altered world events. I thought the theme was influence and in my opinion him and his minions tried and failed to do this.
I do see your point, and I'm not trying to be pedantic, but why belabour the actions of this poonibbler and his minions, hasn't this been done to death? Political upheaval and conflicts of social doctrine are insignificant compared to the huge, lasting and pan-cultural paradigm shifts of scientific or intellectual discovery. Why not pick someone else here listed. Many of them had a considerable and lasting impact to the progression of the human race.
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Arch Duke Ferdinand, his death lit the tinder box to start WWI. With all the subsequent effects of that war, it could be argued his death had the greatest effect on the European continent.
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I nominate Emmeline Pankhurst. At the beginning of the 20th century half the population of Europe was disenfranchised. She played an important role in what surely must be the largest social revolution/evolution in modern history: Women's suffrage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmeline_Pankhurst
(PS: If your teacher is female she'll love this one.)
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But wouldn't you say that Hitler stimulated his greatness?
No, it doesn't work that way.
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Benny Hill
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Nobody's mentioned Doctor Who yet.
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Harry Potter
Voldemort
:noid
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I disagree because I think influence means the capability to affect, manipulate or shape events, development, policy, doctrine etc. and Hitler totally failed to do this. Thankfully he was little more than the tragic end point of the distasteful European experimentation with fascism. Let's face it, his artwork sucked arse too.
It's hard to name one person because many have been influential in sequence. In addition to the others here mentioned, how about: Alan Turing, Marie Curie, Albert Einstein, Alexander Fleming, Richard Trevithick, Justin Bieber.
Depends on how you mean affect, manipulate, and shape events. Do you mean directly or indirectly?
Because if its indirectly, then its without question gavrilo princip. Yes, I change my vote from Hitler.
The number of lives lost as a result of the events set in motion by Princip are incalculable. While some may, and probably will, argue that WWI would have happened without him, the fact remains that WWI DID happen as a direct result of his actions. We can trace so much back to WWI; in part even the Great Depression was caused by that war. The communist revolution in Russia was sparked by the side effects of WWI. Possibly, he is even responsible for the cold war. Hitler probably would have remained anonymous were it not for Princip, WWII might have been averted, or at least the world might have been spared the horrors of the Holocaust.
The effects of his actions are so far reaching, and so tangled, that we'll probably never have an accurate guess of what he cost the world.
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neither Hitler nor Stalin, they receive too much credit for rehashing like a broken record what every megalomaniac has done before them, the only difference was the technology available to them. Nothing is new about genocide nor delusions of world domination.
Someone else, whom you may have never heard of, is the reason why you are able to set at an electronic box and read an electronic BBS, has and will have had a greater impact on humanity in the long run than anyone else of the 20th century. That person is Alan Turing.
He was an English mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, and the first computer scientist (for lack of a better term). He was the father of what we consider 'computer algorithms' and also the inventor of the concept of computer AI. His contributions were crucial in the development of what we consider a modern computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing)
EDIT: Runner ups would be these three men, who invented the transistor; John Bardeen, William Shockley, and Walter Brattain.
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neither Hitler nor Stalin, they receive too much credit for rehashing like a broken record what every megalomaniac has done before them, the only difference was the technology available to them. Nothing is new about genocide nor delusions of world domination.
Someone else, whom you may have never heard of, is the reason why you are able to set at an electronic box and read an electronic BBS, has and will have had a greater impact on humanity in the long run than anyone else of the 20th century. That person is Alan Turing.
He was an English mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, and the first computer scientist (for lack of a better term). He was the father of what we consider 'computer algorithms' and also the inventor of the concept of computer AI. His contributions were crucial in the development of what we consider a modern computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing)
EDIT: Runner ups would be these three men, who invented the solid state resistor; John Bardeen, William Shockley, and Walter Brattain.
+1 on this...
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Stalin was an Asian.
Princip or Trotsky were likely the most influential Europeans by far.
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The only answer to this question can be Tesla.
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The only answer to this question can be Tesla.
Teslas most important work took place in the late 19th century so I disagree.
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Teslas most important work took place in the late 19th century so I disagree.
True, but it came to fruition in the 20th century.
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Still, I've gotta agree with Kilo. He did the work in the late 19th century...... really a bit sketchy to say hes one of the most influential people of the 20th century.
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Still, I've gotta agree with Kilo. He did the work in the late 19th century...... really a bit sketchy to say hes one of the most influential people of the 20th century.
Maybe he meant the band.... :x
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I'm just sketching here so don't take this too seriously but I don't think Hitler will leave much of a legacy when all said and done. Like Ardy said he was just another common or garden megalomaniac, who just happened to be in the right place at the right time: a socially and politically unstable Europe and in a tragically malleable and obedient Germany. A particularly destructive post Industrial Revolution bullyboy in a human history replete with bullyboys. It's important to separate circumstance from individual contributions. If it hadn't been Hitler it would have been someone else in that environment. Similarly with Gavrilo Princip. One man's actions could not have lead to a World War, in my opinion you are focussing on the wrong component regarding those world events.
If we are discussing 'influential', then I think of far more importance are those contributors in the chain of human development & progression. I suppose if pressed to name one I'd have to agree with Ardy that Turing is responsible for setting off a Computing Revolution which is comparable in magnitude to the Industrial Revolution.
But I would say something like that, I'm technologically biased. Perhaps Yarbles or Zack will show up shortly and make a convincing case for Nelson Mandella or Mr Kipling. :banana:
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Did you pick a person yet?
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Martin Heidegger or Ludwig Wittgenstein
i tend to say Heidegger, but my colleagues here continue to argue for Wittgenstein - but both of them are indispensable for many ideas circulated today.
'influential' is a tough category, far too broad to be meaningful tbh. The usual politician answers all focus around the geopolitics of the 30s (Hitler, Stalin) and the rise of nationalism (Mao, Ho Chi Min) or even the radical changes that came about during and around the fall of communism (Regan, Gorbachev) - but these are all historical actors in my opinion - an intimate part of the tapestry and hard to isolate - so I settle on intellectual history since their influence far exceeds someone who is blind to the spirit of history.
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Did you pick a person yet?
Who?
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Einstein or Alexander Fleming
Tronsky
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Who?
the guy who started this thread
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the guy who started this thread
Well I don't think he was very influential in the last century, but there's plenty of time for the new one :banana:
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George Washington
He has influenced every century since born and I have his picture in my wallet. :D
But if you want someone who lived in the 20th century it would be........................... ..............
(http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww239/1halfelfpaladin/Einstein_young.jpg)
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Einstein...... I find anyone thinking Tesla to be shocking. :D
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Better go find a Faraday cage to hide in Shuffler.
As far as Einstein goes. He invented nuclear power and nuclear weapons and came up with the theory of relativity.
Tesla came up with the first practical way to generate electricity and send it considerable distances. With or WITHOUT wires. He is responsible for the electrification of the industrialized world.
He is also the inventor of Radio, Radar, the concept of an internet, a death ray, weather control and a whole lot more than I can list on a thread.
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Did you pick a person yet?
No, not yet. Although Hitler was my first choice, I'm starting to turn away from him after speaking with several of my classmates....who all picked Hitler :bhead
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Pick someone that will impress the teacher. Like Tesla, the most under-appreciated scientist of all time.
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I was going to try impressing him by picking someone that was French (his wiffe is French and he's spent many years there), but....well....it's the French :bolt:
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I was going to try impressing him by picking someone that was French (his wiffe is French and he's spent many years there), but....well....it's the French :bolt:
If you feel you have adequate mastery of the term "Would you like fries with that?", you can choose Inspector Clouseau.
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:rofl
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It's an opiniated project right? So who cares who you pick? Just pick the easiest one to write about. I'd say Steve Jobs if you wanna go easy (read his biography and voila, A+).
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(http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/m/mr-bean/graphics-mr-bean-706282.jpg)
Duh.
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Einstein...... I find anyone thinking Tesla to be shocking. :D
Some of Einstein's theores and calculations are yet to be proven.
Hands down Tesla. Actually Edison, he ruined Tesla's work. Who knows what else Tesla would discover if butthole Edison didn't burn his laboratory?
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I was going to try impressing him by picking someone that was French (his wiffe is French and he's spent many years there), but....well....it's the French :bolt:
There is some good French things that are coming out.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p193/elle123elle/Brigitte-Bardot.jpg)
Brigitte-Bardot
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It's an opiniated project right? So who cares who you pick? Just pick the easiest one to write about. I'd say Steve Jobs if you wanna go easy (read his biography and voila, A+).
I think Steve Jobs would be an F for failure to read the question properly titanic :old:
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I was going to try impressing him by picking someone that was French (his wiffe is French and he's spent many years there), but....well....it's the French :bolt:
The Rothchilds have places in France,look closely at this family Josh,pick anyone of them and it will make a great study.
However their "influences" go back to the 1500's so it might not suit the terms of your paper. Tesla however did most of his work in the 20th century dispite what some may say.He worked with Edison and Westinghouse and holds many patens,some of Westinghouse and Edison's patens rightfully belong to Tesla.
Then there's the whole smeer campain that Edison put on to stop Tesla,some real horific things done!
:salute
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I think Steve Jobs would be an F for failure to read the question properly titanic :old:
:o :devil
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Hitler, no doubt.
"Who do you believe was the most influential European of the 20th century, and why?"
It does not specify only positive influence, so if you only consider the absolute magnitude - Hitler. WWII was the pivotal event of the 20th century that still echoes strongly. Heck, without that ahole, we would not have this glorious game.
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It's an opiniated project right? So who cares who you pick? Just pick the easiest one to write about.
Which is why I went with Hitler in the first place. It is so much easier to find stuff on him. Which really helps when I have to have a certain amount of each kinds of sources
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If I was marking it I'd only give a B to even the most perfect essay on hitler, so predictable. most teachers give credit for not boring them to death while they are marking ...
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I was going to try impressing him by picking someone that was French (his wiffe is French and he's spent many years there), but....well....it's the French :bolt:
Try Jacque Cousteau, I believe he pioneered the rebreather, set many things in motion for underwater archeology, and discovered a great many little fishies.
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If I was marking it I'd only give a B to even the most perfect essay on hitler, so predictable. most teachers give credit for not boring them to death while they are marking ...
Which is exactly why I'm trying to come up with someone entirely different. :bhead I hate papers
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Are we talking French now? About ten years ago I was invited to this big conference in London. The most beautiful woman I have ever seen worked there. She was from France, working in London. I have loved that memory ever since. I've also noticed since then that many French woman have a similar look. What can I say...
Boo
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Are we talking French now? About ten years ago I was invited to this big conference in London. The most beautiful woman I have ever seen worked there. She was from France, working in London. I have loved that memory ever since. I've also noticed since then that many French woman have a similar look. What can I say...
Boo
To keep your memory intact please do not wave at them.
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If I was marking it I'd only give a B to even the most perfect essay on hitler, so predictable. most teachers give credit for not boring them to death while they are marking ...
Marie Curie was a Polish-French chemist who did very important work involving radiation around the turn of the century. Beside her research (obviously radioactive materials became pretty important over the course of the rest of the century), the fact that she was a woman in a traditionally very male field was a pretty big thing.
Rosalind Franklin was another important European (British) female chemist who put a lot of work into discovering the structure of DNA in the 50s.