Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sundowner on April 18, 2012, 05:28:44 PM
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"With all but one of 54 reactors now offline", Japan will be without nuclear power after more than 40 years starting May 6.
The Fukushima reactors meltdown has changed the face of power production in modern day Japan.
Regards,
Sun
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/17/japan-nuclear-idUSL3E8FH16V20120417
(Reuters) - Japan will within weeks have no nuclear power for the first time in more than 40 years, after the trade minister said two reactors idled after the Fukushima disaster would not be back online before the last one currently operating is shut down.
Trade Minister Yukio Edano signalled it would take at least several weeks before the government, keen to avoid a power crunch, can give a final go-ahead to restarts, meaning Japan is set on May 6 to mark its first nuclear power-free day since 1970.
"If we thoroughly go through the procedure, it would be (on or) after May 6 even if we could restart them," Edano told a news conference, adding that whether they can actually be brought back online is still up to ongoing discussions.
The crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, where a huge earthquake and tsunami in March 2011 triggered radiation leaks, has hammered public faith in nuclear power and prevented the restart of reactors shut down for regular maintenance checks, with all but one of 54 reactors now offline.
Nuclear power accounted for about 30 percent of Japan's electricity demand before the Fukushima crisis.......
Complete article at link.
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WAY TO GO
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WAY TO GO
What?
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That decision is going to cost them dearly in the long run.
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This doesn't really make sense just because there is an accident they are going to shut down where they used to get 30% of their power.
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If they start burning oil for power, you're going to see oil prices rise like a 90 year old man on double strength Viagra.
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Wind, and Solar, and who else knows. Maybe the shadow does.
Either way, Nuclear comes with a cost, and half life's of 1000's of years, is costly in my humble opinion.
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Unfortunately, Japan has little to no national resources and they are an island country. To import enough oil to produce their energy needs will really hurt their economy.
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I don't see the big deal. Green energy is proven and even the US doesn't need oil.
Yes Japan can.
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I don't see the big deal. Green energy is proven and even the US doesn't need oil.
Yes Japan can.
If the us got rid of oil people would go into crisis, I would, I need gas for my truck D:
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If the us got rid of oil people would go into crisis, I would, I need gas for my truck D:
Nah. You need a high speed magnetic choo choo train to take you to work.
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I don't see the big deal. Green energy is proven and even the US doesn't need oil.
Yes Japan can.
Has to be a joke right? the technology isn't there and green energy in no way can replace conventional and nuclear yet.
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Has to be a joke right? the technology isn't there and green energy in no way can replace conventional and nuclear yet.
The joke is on you.
If the technology isn't there why would one of the greatest nations ever try to socially engineer its populous?
It's there I tell you. My car is powered by my own excrement and I get 200 mpg.
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The is bad and getting worst, but media doesn't talk much about this subject to avoid panic; I read some rumors about Japan planing a massive evacuation, milions of people; the area around the plant is to radioactive even for robots to work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxJJ7VX5VUM
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This doesn't really make sense just because there is an accident they are going to shut down where they used to get 30% of their power.
Well, in the case of the Japanese people... They do have some reason to be a little gun shy when it comes to nuclear accidents.
I just wonder how they are going to replace that much power without any significant source of domestic power. Heck, their lack of natural resources were significant factors in the hows and whys of WW2 and their invasion of China etc.
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Well, in the case of the Japanese people... They do have some reason to be a little gun shy when it comes to nuclear accidents.
Godzilla?
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The is bad and getting worst, but media doesn't talk much about this subject to avoid panic; I read some rumors about Japan planing a massive evacuation, milions of people; the area around the plant is to radioactive even for robots to work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxJJ7VX5VUM
Very informative video.
The last part where he addresses the possibility of the unit #4 building tipping over with its TONS of spent fuel rods is quite sobering.
Regards,
Sun
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I'm not sure, but it seems many of you have misunderstood the OP's article.
"Trade Minister Yukio Edano signalled it would take at least several weeks before the government, keen to avoid a power crunch, can give a final go-ahead to restarts..."
"In discussing restarts of the No.3 and No.4 reactors at Kansai Electric's Ohi nuclear power plant, in western Japan, the first to clear the government's technical review on resilience against a severe event..."
Japan isn't abandoning nuclear power. They're reviewing their safety protocols and considering safety improvements before authorizing restarts. Big difference.
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Yada, yada, yada...the plot thickens.
In the UK they have discovered that with fracking technology they have as much natural gas energy as the middle east. Right now that government is going through the process of allowing it to be accessed. When this sorts out the UK will have a massive economic boom, jobs, salaries, etc and energy will be cheaper. It will take 5-7 years to really take hold but when it does...big time!
As this is developing in the UK what is being discovered is that Russia is beyind the opposition to changing these policies. Russia has a near monopoly of natural gas into Europe and this would end with the UK changing their policy. What we are going to see over the next 18 months is that most of the environmental movement has been backed and funded by Russia and Russian intelligence. It has been an intentional effort by this country to both harm our economies and boost their own.
The environmental movement is not what it seems. This relates to Japan in the same manner, harming their opponents. I know, put one of those black helicopter icons as a response though in 18months or so I will be a prophet. It is already being leaked. Just a matter of time before the dots are completly connected and then...bye bye envirocrap crew!
Boo
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...The environmental movement is not what it seems. This relates to Japan in the same manner, harming their opponents. I know, put one of those black helicopter icons as a response though in 18months or so I will be a prophet. It is already being leaked. Just a matter of time before the dots are completly connected and then...bye bye envirocrap crew!
Errrr, you're saying the 'environmental issues' are an economic power play?
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There is a lot of orchestrated opposition to fracking too. They found gas here recently and the anti fracking crowd were in action immediately. This is in spite of the fact that they found enough gas to supply the entire country for twelve years.
One of the objections they have to fracking is that it undermines the whole Green fantasy future of so called renewable energy. It also stymies their plans to cover the country in inefficient windmills.
The truth is, whatever way it goes. In the future nuclear will be the only option for most of the world. Green dreams aside.
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Very informative video.
The last part where he addresses the possibility of the unit #4 building tipping over with its TONS of spent fuel rods is quite sobering.
Regards,
Sun
"The is bad", opps my poor English+i didn't read what i wrote before posting, sorry.
Unit 4 is their worst nightmare ; Fukushima makes the governments rethink the use of nuclear energy; Germany has already announced a multimillion plan to eliminate totally in next years; I read this one north of San Diego was closed last month; been driving many times on I-5 , this is dangerous located, half way between San Diego and LA heavy populated area, earthquake zone, 20-30 feet above sea level vulnerable to light tsunami;
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120407124311-san-onofre-nuclear-plant-story-top.jpg)
story here on CNN;
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/06/us/california-nuclear-plant/?hpt=hp_t2
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See Rule #14
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Germany has already announced a multimillion plan to eliminate totally in next years
What are you going to replace it with? Oil from the Russian pipeline?
The planet on a whole is not ready to be limiting its energy choices, not until something at least as efficient is available.
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What are you going to replace it with? Oil from the Russian pipeline?
"Germany’s $263 Billion Renewables Shift Biggest Since War"
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-03-18/germany-s-270-billion-renewables-shift-biggest-since-war
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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Germany will back off of this shortly. There is already cracks in the policy. Wind is attractive but hardly a replacement for fossil fuels.
Agreed... until some other reliable and efficient source of power is available, oil, natural gas, and nuclear power will reign supreme.
I do feel we are within sight of developing another source, one that will wildly change the political landscape of the world, overnight.
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The future:
"The U.S. Department of Energy on Friday announced a plan to support the design of so-called “small modular nuclear reactors” and popularize their use for power generation."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliawang/2012/01/20/feds-to-finance-small-nuclear-reactor-designs/
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I have a friend who has been working on a nuc license for 5-years now. He has raised and spent over $50 mil. I am not into nuc power so I have no idea any acronyms etc. I do know he hired a\the director of nuc energy from the Bush admin in hopes he can help him navigate the regulatory nightmare that is getting a license.
Last I spoke with my buddy (year ago) they have moved their time frame back many years. While on the one hand the current admin releases info about what they are going to do what they are actually doing is something different. I doubt my buddy will ever get the license. I hope he does but...
The hostility towards anything but solar and wind is thick. Who is getting the last laugh on this one?
Boo
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The hostility towards anything but solar and wind is thick. Who is getting the last laugh on this one?
Boo
China.
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See Rule #14
:headscratch: :cry :cry :cry
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I already see a lot of #14s on this subject so I must tread carefuly while accuratley expressing my strongest opinion on this.... Iran or any emerging nation couldn't find a better blue-light special on surpluss trained/skilled nuclear talent even at WalMart.
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Has to be a joke right? the technology isn't there and green energy in no way can replace conventional and nuclear yet.
I wouldnt say its that far off though either.
One of my customers who's house is easily 3 times the size of mine had solar installed.
His electric bill in march was $2
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There is a lot of orchestrated opposition to fracking too. They found gas here recently and the anti fracking crowd were in action immediately. This is in spite of the fact that they found enough gas to supply the entire country for twelve years.
One of the objections they have to fracking is that it undermines the whole Green fantasy future of so called renewable energy. It also stymies their plans to cover the country in inefficient windmills.
The truth is, whatever way it goes. In the future nuclear will be the only option for most of the world. Green dreams aside.
Not saying fracking shouldnt be done at all but
To say or ignore the fact there is a downside to Fracking is as foolish as it is irresponsible.
Green. Or I should say greener technology is going to be the move of the future. You can count on it. And that will be good for everyone including business as new technologies are developed.
Instead of condemning one or the other. Where each opinion of which is based more on corporate money,politics and whos financial interests lie where rather then facts.
A more common sense approach would be to use all available resources and technologies in combination and responsibly.
The key word and least used principle though for either side is "responsibly".
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Nat gas will probably be the the 'bridge' fuel in the US. Why? we are swimming in it. As for Germany or Japan, who knows...
as for the naysayers of renewable energy, well change scary for ya, we know, but change will happen and not 'back to the past' so suck it up, or cry about how the rest of the world left you behind.
Already in Germany 20% of their energy is from renewable resources.
oh and don't forget, green != solar panels, there are literally 100s of emerging technologies being explored from algae to biomass combustion. IF you don't beleive me, look at where the private sector money is going...
(http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2012/04/18/ba-greenindex041_SFCG1334784105.jpg)
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Ardy, so many of these investments come with massive subsidies. My bro is a Wall street type, his boss is an insider. I've had lunch with him a few times as he considers different investments. He has on his Wall Street staff several federal government grant writers and several full time lobbyists. When my bros "free market" Wall Street insider considers a deal one of the first things he does is consider the potential subsidies available from Washington. I thought I knew people in DC, this guy has the cell phone number for most of the big names you hear about on TV.
While it is impressive it is massively disgusting. Wall Street is not about free markets or capitalism, it is about crony-ism and tax handouts. When a deal hinges on money from DC, something is very wrong.
As for a monthly electric bill being $2/mo, I don't doubt it. About 6 months ago I had a solar firm do a quick estimate on my home to take it off the grid via solar. I could post the actual estimate though in order to drop my bill down to zero I would need to spend over $50k in solar panels, and that includes tax subsidies. The subsidies means you folks get to help buy solar panels, batteries, etc for my house. (I'll send you a Christmas card for the help.)
I pay an average of $244 a month, just did taxes to IRS. At over $50,000 it would take me over 17 years. And pray I don't need repairs or something wears out. This is why average people do not invest in them. All things considered, they do not pay for themselves.
Boo
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While it is impressive it is massively disgusting. Wall Street is not about free markets or capitalism, it is about crony-ism and tax handouts. When a deal hinges on money from DC, something is very wrong.
No question that crony capitalism is a problem, its rife in many industries, including the oil and gas industry. Clean energy or not, your tax dollars are going to support some industry, might as well be one that is pushing our country ahead of the rest of the world. China currently leads the world in green energy investments. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14201939 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14201939)
That being said, many of mans greatest achievements were heavily government funded, including the technology which is allowing us to talk about it on this BBS, the internet (Darpa).
EDIT:
I pay an average of $244 a month, just did taxes to IRS. At over $50,000 it would take me over 17 years. And pray I don't need repairs or something wears out. This is why average people do not invest in them. All things considered, they do not pay for themselves.
eek! $244 for power/gas.... I pay under $100...
Where solar panels do help are on large warehouses with huge flat roofs, in sunny environments. If you live in an area that does not have a lot of sun exposure, then there is not going to be much of a savings.
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The joke is on you.
If the technology isn't there why would one of the greatest nations ever try to socially engineer its populous?
It's there I tell you. My car is powered by my own excrement and I get 200 mpg.
So do you haul a sewage tank with you when you go to longer trips or do you just harvest some toilets on the way? Which gallons are you talking about by the way, gallons of grey water, methane or regular gas? :)
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I wouldnt say its that far off though either.
One of my customers who's house is easily 3 times the size of mine had solar installed.
His electric bill in march was $2
And his solar installation bill was probably $40 000. He's going to pay 6-7 years to return the investment and then it's time to get new panels already :D
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Ardy, so many of these investments come with massive subsidies. My bro is a Wall street type, his boss is an insider. I've had lunch with him a few times as he considers different investments. He has on his Wall Street staff several federal government grant writers and several full time lobbyists. When my bros "free market" Wall Street insider considers a deal one of the first things he does is consider the potential subsidies available from Washington. I thought I knew people in DC, this guy has the cell phone number for most of the big names you hear about on TV.
While it is impressive it is massively disgusting. Wall Street is not about free markets or capitalism, it is about crony-ism and tax handouts. When a deal hinges on money from DC, something is very wrong.
As for a monthly electric bill being $2/mo, I don't doubt it. About 6 months ago I had a solar firm do a quick estimate on my home to take it off the grid via solar. I could post the actual estimate though in order to drop my bill down to zero I would need to spend over $50k in solar panels, and that includes tax subsidies. The subsidies means you folks get to help buy solar panels, batteries, etc for my house. (I'll send you a Christmas card for the help.)
I pay an average of $244 a month, just did taxes to IRS. At over $50,000 it would take me over 17 years. And pray I don't need repairs or something wears out. This is why average people do not invest in them. All things considered, they do not pay for themselves.
Boo
You were mentioning subsidies?
Estimates of the value of U.S. federal subsidies to the domestic oil and gas industry alone (not coal) range from “only” $4 billion a year, to an amazing $41 billion annually. Depending on type One recent comprehensive study of U.S. energy subsidies identified $72.5 billion in federal subsidies for fossil fuels between 2002-2008, or just over $10 billion annually.
Subsidies for fossel fuel by far surpass those for "renewables". when there is no subsidies for those. Only then does your argument become valid
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There is a lot of orchestrated opposition to fracking too. They found gas here recently and the anti fracking crowd were in action immediately. This is in spite of the fact that they found enough gas to supply the entire country for twelve years.
One of the objections they have to fracking is that it undermines the whole Green fantasy future of so called renewable energy. It also stymies their plans to cover the country in inefficient windmills.
The truth is, whatever way it goes. In the future nuclear will be the only option for most of the world. Green dreams aside.
Coal seam gas mining is great apart from the risk of poisoning groundwater - most of the anti fracking crowd here are farmers which kinda undermines the fantasy of what a greenie is
Tronsky
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Subsidies for fossel fuel by far surpass those for "renewables". when there is no subsidies for those. Only then does your argument become valid
fossil fuels work.
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fossil fuels work.
Not for long matey :lol
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Not for long matey :lol
Burning rock and coal storages will supply oil for decades to come still.
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Decades isn't enough bud, and also not sensible to expend it all.
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You mean Japan even stopped working on the LHD? Thats too bad.
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Why they built BWRs there perplexes me, given their geology.
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Not for long matey :lol
For who?
How long is not long?
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Lets hope they can make a go of this.
I wish them the best.
Regards,
Sun
Japan without nuclear power for first time in 42 years
TOKYO – Thousands of Japanese marched to celebrate the switching off of the last of their nation's 50 nuclear reactors Saturday, waving banners shaped as giant fish that have become a potent anti-nuclear symbol.
Japan was without electricity from nuclear power for the first time in four decades when the reactor at Tomari nuclear plant on the northern island of Hokkaido went offline for mandatory routine maintenance.
After last year's March 11 quake and tsunami set off meltdowns at the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant, no reactor halted for checkups has been restarted amid public worries about the safety of nuclear technology.....
.....Before the nuclear crisis, Japan relied on nuclear power for a third of its electricity.
The crowd at the anti-nuclear rally, estimated at 5,500 by organizers, shrugged off government warnings about a power shortage. If anything, they said, with the reactors going offline one by one, it was clear the nation didn't really need nuclear power.
Whether Japan will suffer a sharp power crunch is still unclear.
Electricity shortages are expected only at peak periods, such as the middle of the day in hot weather, and critics of nuclear power say proponents are exaggerating the consequences to win public approval to restart reactors.
Hokkaido Electric Power Co. spokesman Hisatoshi Kibayashi said the shutdown was completed late Saturday.
The Hokkaido Tomari plant has three reactors, but the other two had been halted earlier. Before March 11 last year, the nation had 54 nuclear reactors, but four of the six reactors at Fukushima Dai-ichi are being decommissioned because of the disaster.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/05/05/japan-to-be-without-nuclear-power-for-first-time-in-42-years/#ixzz1u36LW7nC
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Too late, over 35% of young people tested have cysts and nodules in thyroid gland ; in less than 1 year exposure and the unit 4 didn't collapse yet:
http://enenews.com/govt-thyroid-cysts-nodules-detected-35-children-18-years
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Alarmist crap. The people of Fukushima Prefecture will undoubtedly face some radiation related consequences. However, thyroid nodules are extremely common in young adults and children; almost 50% of people have had one. They indicate a thyroid neoplasm, but only a small percentage of these are thyroid cancers. Around 80 percent of adults will have at least one by the time they reach 70 years of age. Only about 5 percent are cancerous, and under 3 percent of those result in fatalities.
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Someone has forgotten to include the conclusion of the study. There is a statistical chance that one person may die as a result some time within the next 25 years. But with continuous checks being done, even that is unlikely, since no cancers will be undetected or detected too late for treatment.
Yes, we have no nuclear power plants operating now. I wonder how many have stopped to consider how this has affected you, too? Japan has drastically increased imports of oil and gas to attempt to make up the shortfall from no nuclear-generated power. Have you noticed a change at the gas pump over the last year?
Replacing 30% of the power requirement of the country cannot be done by increasing other sources 30%. It doesn't work like that. It takes almost double the oil imports to make up that thermal capacity.
We'll have to pay the piper here soon. Electricity rates are about to go up close to 20% for businesses and industry, and it'll have to be increased again. Japan already has the highest rates in the world. The sales tax rate is going to double and we'll still have energy shortages. It may well put the economy into a severe recession or worse.
The difference between a 1st-world economy and a 3rd-world, desperate place is power.
I suspect there is a plan afloat to intentionally create shortages to make people miserable during the scorching, tropical summers in Japan. People will demand some of the power plants restart. I know that I will.
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Rolex is spot on with his assessment and it mirrors my own.
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US Crude Oil Tumbles Below $100 On Host Of Factors
NEW YORK – U.S. crude oil prices fell below $100 a barrel Friday for the first time since early February--and promptly tumbled past the $99 and $98 marks after a weak reading on U.S. employment.
Light, sweet crude for June delivery recovered a bit by the end of the day and settled $4.05, or 4%, lower at $98.49 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, the lowest finish for the benchmark since Feb. 7. The slide marks the biggest one-day drop for the contract since December.
Futures have fallen 7.2% over the last three sessions. Meanwhile, Brent crude on the ICE futures exchange settled $2.90 lower, or 2.5%, at $113.18 a barrel, its weakest finish since Feb. 2.
But oil futures have been grinding down since hitting a recent settlement high of $109.77 on Feb. 26. Prices have been elevated for months over tensions with Iran over its nuclear program. But those prices have slowly succumbed to a steady drumbeat of stabilizing supplies, weak demand and an eroding global economy--with this most recent decline being particularly steep.
"I'd always felt that the only thing holding the prices up above $100 was the Iranian tensions," said John Kilduff, founding partner at Again Capital in New York.
The decline should help consumers at the pump. If oil prices stabilize below $100, the average U.S. price of regular conventional gasoline should peak at $3.75 a gallon this summer, down from the U.S. Energy Information Administration's expected monthly average peak of $4.01 a gallon, said Richard Hastings, macroeconomics analyst at Global Hunter Securities.
Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/05/04/us-crude-oil-tumbles-below-100-on-host-factors/#ixzz1u53nooV1
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I'll never eat another Pacific fish.
Thanks alot a**holes.
EDIT: Especially shellfish.
:mad:
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I'll never eat another Pacific fish.
Thanks alot a**holes.
EDIT: Especially shellfish.
:mad:
Ill eat your share of it then, im not worried about anything
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Ill eat your share of it then, im not worried about anything
Ditto.
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I've really read in to this entire event of Japan shutting down its reactors. I've spoken to college professors from different institutions, even spoke with a couple of Japanese college students on the matter. From all that I have read, all that I have heard from those in the know and those with a personal stake in the matter, I have come to this conclusion:
This is a prime example of someone falling down on a bike and NOT getting back on the bike. Instead, they chose to blame the bike, leave the bike sit, and go and buy a horse. Keep in mind they have never ridden a horse, have no clue how to ride a horse, have no clue how to care for a horse, what to feed a horse, or even know how to deal with its manure. But, the horse is "natural" and they don't have to fall off a bike ever again.
I think this is a knee-jerk reaction that has not been carefully thought out by the powers to be and it is being done just because it "feels good", like a lot of BS laws, policies, and referendums that are passed all over the globe.
I wish the Japanese people the best of luck.
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They are saying now that the Fukushima meltdown's radiation will spread to the whole earth.
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seriously awful science in here.
As for the nuke power in japan being shut down - I think it is a political ploy but there is a lot of solar and geothermal in Japan, but not enough yet.
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Lesson to be learned here is if you lose power to your reactor cooling system it melts. Don't lose power to your reactor cooling system. Imagine if your generators were in a waterproof location.
What's the odds Japan will experience another earthquake and sunami? :headscratch:
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Chernobyl: Life in the Dead Zone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud33w26qsWQ
Interesting documentary.
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They are saying now that the Fukushima meltdown's radiation will spread to the whole earth.
Only report I have seen is that the radiation levels are so low that there will be no noticeable effects from it
But then some of the tree hugging chicken little sites claim that 20,000 people in the US will die from it
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What's the odds Japan will experience another earthquake and sunami? :headscratch:
If this seismologist is correct they may have shut down the reactors just in time.
Regards,
Sun
Fears increase of big earthquake near Tokyo in the foreseeable future
Published 07 May, 2012 12:41:00 PRI's The World
A prominent Japanese seismologist rattled some nerves when he declared there was a 70 percent chance of a major earthquake in or around Tokyo -- in the next four years. Government scientists had proclaimed a similar risk, but over a longer timeframe, 30 years.
In a quiet room at Tokyo University, seismologist Shinichi Sakai points to steady, color-coded lines on a digital monitor. The screen displays real-time readings from Japan’s extensive network of seismometers.
This is one of the most seismically active countries in the world, and the flat lines show that all is quiet across the region, at least for the moment.
Then, as if on cue, two of the lines start to jump violently, splashing the screen with red and yellow pixels. They’re tracking a very small earthquake, centered just outside of Tokyo.
Sakai says small quakes like this happen about ten thousand times a year in Japan, and for geologists like him, even the small earthquakes are worth paying attention to. He says there’s been a fivefold increase in small tremors around Tokyo since the huge quake off Japan’s northeast coast in March last year. And that adds up to a mathematical omen for scientists like him.
In January, Sakai and the University’s Earthquake Research Institute crunched the new numbers and came up with a shocking prediction: There's a 70 percent chance a major earthquake will hit Tokyo within the next four years.
Sakai and his colleagues are among the country’s leading seismic authorities, so the prediction itself gave the country a jolt. The Japanese government has also predicted a similar chance of a major quake in the Tokyo area, but over a longer time period — sometime in the next 30 years......
http://www.pri.org/stories/world/asia/fears-increase-of-big-earthquake-near-tokyo-in-the-foreseeable-future-9764.html
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http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/
Found this link......real time earthquake data