Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 33Vortex on April 21, 2012, 11:50:52 AM
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...it is said by some, and they resort to dueling to find this "good fight". Well, I for one am not convinced. Granted dueling is a side of AH I have pretty much neglected over the years, because it is not my cup of tea, I like the squad thing and flying together with a team. My experience of dueling in AH may be somewhat limited, only done it twice since ~2002, but nevertheless this is my opinion. If you are to duel someone in a 1v1 or even a multi-ship engagement, make sure they understand the significance of a neutral starting position. Cheating the merge is a fairly easy and significantly decisive way to lure a less experienced pilot into a fight he can not win. Both times that I have dueled in AH I was facing merge cheaters, and they were pretending acting as if it was a non-issue.
I see this is typical behaviour of the AH player, and a fair fight even in a dueling arena is difficult to find. Forget about a fair fight in the MA, it's just not what the MA is about. The merge cheater is typically someone who is in it to win it, not to learn. This come at a cost of learning capacity, for those who cheat themselves are limited in growth potential.
So my advice to anyone who want to get into dueling, is that make sure you get what you look for. A clean merge is a must. If your adversary lack the courtesy to give you that, don't bother.
:salute
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when you want a good fight.....to find a good fight.....Cocaine - Eric Clapton
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...it is said by some, and they resort to dueling to find this "good fight". Well, I for one am not convinced. Granted dueling is a side of AH I have pretty much neglected over the years, because it is not my cup of tea, I like the squad thing and flying together with a team. My experience of dueling in AH may be somewhat limited, only done it twice since ~2002, but nevertheless this is my opinion. If you are to duel someone in a 1v1 or even a multi-ship engagement, make sure they understand the significance of a neutral starting position. Cheating the merge is a fairly easy and significantly decisive way to lure a less experienced pilot into a fight he can not win. Both times that I have dueled in AH I was facing merge cheaters, and they were pretending acting as if it was a non-issue.
I see this is typical behaviour of the AH player, and a fair fight even in a dueling arena is difficult to find. Forget about a fair fight in the MA, it's just not what the MA is about. The merge cheater is typically someone who is in it to win it, not to learn. This come at a cost of learning capacity, for those who cheat themselves are limited in growth potential.
So my advice to anyone who want to get into dueling, is that make sure you get what you look for. A clean merge is a must. If your adversary lack the courtesy to give you that, don't bother.
:salute
After dueling twice you accuse the typical AH player of merge misbehavior? Seriously? Wouldn't you need a few thousand duels to make that statement credible?
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if you have only dueled twice in the DA you have no grounds talking about the cheating at the merge...
which I don't understand what you are talking about....you mean they fire at you on the merge :headscratch:
A good duel is when both parties try to get guns at the merge with out letting your opponent getting a gun solution....
the whole fly by each other with out maneuvering before the merge is lame and does not teach you anything.
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After dueling twice you accuse the typical AH player of merge misbehavior? Seriously? Wouldn't you need a few thousand duels to make that statement credible?
That is a fair point, and yes I'm inclined to agree. However this is my experience, and my opinion. You are free to have an opinion of my opinion but that doesn't necessarily mean that I change my opinion to agree with your opinion now does it? Generally speaking, people whine about others and rarely [typically never] look at themselves. It becomes evident in a environment such as AH wherein players whine and gripe about being shot down, acting as if it was someone else's fault. So yes, in general I think this is a common attitude. It does not disagree with a small dueling community having fun with clean fights, but they would be a minority.
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if you have only dueled twice in the DA you have no grounds talking about the cheating at the merge...
which I don't understand what you are talking about...
I think he is referring to the nature of performing a lead turn so early that the opponent is literally 90% off tail at the merge. Since there is little worry about anyone taking the shot at the merge, you can perform this ridiculous lead turn without worry. In the MA, such a lead turn would lead to a quick trip to the tower or at least have the risk of a tower trip to dissuade you from doing so.
That said, I enjoy dueling with good people and often against aircraft that are far more capable than my own, particularly in a tight 'phone booth' style fight.
the whole fly by each other with out maneuvering before the merge is lame and does not teach you anything.
Yes and no... if both opponents are flying the same aircraft, I disagree for the reasons stated above. Against dissimilar airframes, I'd agree. For example, a Hurricane vs a 190 at almost the same speed and altitude, the Hurricane wants to make the separation between the two aircraft at the merge as large as possible while the 190 wants to minimize it, to prevent the Hurri (with its lower wing loading) from having room to obtain angles.
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How do you cheat on a merge?
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How do you cheat on a merge?
I'm assuming Vortex is talking about the other guy coming in at a alt different then his own.
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Between two pilots of 'honour' it is a-given that both understand fairness and thus both know in order to preserve that they both must break right after passing, not before.
How you approach the merge is up to each pilot but for someone to break before the merge is to cheat and give in to the temptation of fighting just for "the win" and not "the fight".
As well, if you signal someone that you are going to engage in a merge and don't have altutide to match, that lies completely on you and not your opponent. <Most opponents of calibre will come down to your level to make up for this>
"Unwritten" understandings like that usually make up what is "cheating" and what isn't, your gut instinct usually is the best judge and jury in that regard.
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I'm assuming Vortex is talking about the other guy coming in at a alt different then his own.
Ic, or even Maybe the turds who climb out and dive in before icon...(like we can't see you :rofl)
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I'm a big fan of deck merges because on that. They make for less wiggle room and take away the element of alt discrepancies.
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:noid :headscratch: :noid :headscratch: :noid :headscratch:
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I'm a big fan of deck merges because on that. They make for less wiggle room and take away the element of alt discrepancies.
Lol, that's what I meant, the dive in on a set deck merge... (sorry for being vague)
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:aok :aok Thanx Jo....you had me confused. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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:aok :aok Thanx Jo....you had me confused. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:D :banana: :bolt:
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Altitude, speed (in similar a/c engagement not necessarily so in dissimilar) and angle on target are factors to consider prior to the merge. If there is a difference in angle to target between the two aircraft the one with the lesser angle is at advantage. I think Torquila said it well, you set course as close to your adversary as possible without colliding, both at a level attitude and same alt. Maneuvering commence after the two a/c pass by eachother. Any maneuvering before that basically tell you that the other guy is cheating because he is reducing the angle which he has to turn to get you in his sights.
It was meant as advice to those who are interested in dueling, because the merge is decisive. Which is why people fly the way they do in the MA, where you never see anyone fly like that. Usually you set up a lead or lag turn.
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Lol, that's what I meant, the dive in on a set deck merge... (sorry for being vague)
What!!! They do that?! No wonder I lose every duel I take part in. Cheaters!!!!
Them there duelers are tricky creatures :furious
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I don't think I've ever fought a duel where one or both players hadn't tried to create some flight path separation before the merge to gain some angles with a lead turn, and this would be the first I've heard it being thought of as cheating. It's part of the fight. If keeping still till both planes pass is the idea, then you'll want to make sure the other guy knows so and agrees before calling him a cheater, because it's not the norm.
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A duel is a duel, set within a certain frame of parameters. Whatever is agreed upon by the participants really. In the MA anything goes. No need to be sarcastic or make fun of it, unless you want to degrade yourself. Being the adult and mature person you are [uptown] of course you know that and I don't need to tell you. ;)
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I don't think I've ever fought a duel where one or both players hadn't tried to create some flight path separation before the merge to gain some angles with a lead turn, and this would be the first I've heard it being thought of as cheating. It's part of the fight. If keeping still till both planes pass is the idea, then you'll want to make sure the other guy knows so and agrees before calling him a cheater, because it's not the norm.
Not the norm? Then you may just as well call the fighting in the MA dueling. Dueling is starting a fight on equal terms, the fight commence post-merge as soon as the planes pass each other. No maneuvering is allowed prior to the merge, this is the classic duel setup no exceptions. Maneuvering before the merge is cheating, if you believe otherwise you're misinformed.
And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
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I think hes touching on the part in persistant 1v1 scenarios when both people are used to each others flying styles and have possibly fought over the same spot more then a handful of times, it starts to become ok to set your plane at an angle or roll/pitch that will pre-empt the opening move.
But that is a rare case and usually only happens when both people are simultaneously aware of it and you will find that the majority of the time, both people know when the time is right. This does *not* occur in the MA, due to the open and random nature of fighting; thus no-one should expect to have any a-givens laid down other then what is normally expected.
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most duelers just fly at each other with no HO and break before collision.
Some will dive down to get underneath their opponent, happens all the time in the MA, it isn't cheating you can dive down aswell to match their level or specify your set limits before hand.
Deck merges eliminate this but most duelers will not break turn early or too late otherwise they are at risk of giving their 6 up easily.
Dueling same types and same alts means that you cannot easily gain an energy advantage unless your opponent cuts throttle or repeatedly turns in too hard. If your viewpoint is that the fight actually starts at the very top of both pilots climbs or whoever can get the most height advantage out of a series of manoeuvres then you are in the minority.
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Pre-merge maneuvering is not part of the dueling concept no matter how you look at it. The whole point of a duel is to set aside the tactical pre-merge maneuvering occurring in a real combat situation, forcing a equal-terms engagement to determine who can make the most of a neutral situation. Because a duel is about determining pilot skill especially in similar aircraft engagements, less so in dissimilar. Any pre-merge maneuvering negates this purpose very effectively, which is why people are so keen on using such tactics.
I guess this is where the line is drawn between the tactician and the gamer mentality.
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Not the norm? Then you may just as well call the fighting in the MA dueling. Dueling is starting a fight on equal terms, the fight commence post-merge as soon as the planes pass each other. No maneuvering is allowed prior to the merge, this is the classic duel setup no exceptions. Maneuvering before the merge is cheating, if you believe otherwise you're misinformed.
And this is exactly what I'm talking about.
Sure it's equal. You can setup up your own angles, deny him his, or use his maneuvering against him. It's part of the fight. Nothing is being sneaked in behind your back.
If such maneuvering is cheating then me and every other person I've ever dueled in this game is also unknowingly cheating.
If you want otherwise, let your partner know. No big deal.
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you have to move a little otherwise you will ram each other.
I always wait until my opponent is just about flashing past, as above. Which is exactly what your looking for except your definition of a first merge is my definition of the second merge.
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If you want otherwise, let your partner know. No big deal.
Very true, however the mentality in this game is different from what is taught at air combat schools. No big deal there, either. This is a game.
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Very true, however the mentality in this game is different from what is taught at air combat schools. No big deal there, either. This is a game.
Which air combat school did you go to? Or which school of air combat are you referring to?
Do you really need to comment on people's mentality when you don't have a clue about what people are thinking? Should we speculate on your mentality for commenting on duels you don't participate in and your apparent disdain for people who don't play the game that you play the way you'd like them to?
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I completely disagree with that concept
the duel is..... meet at the same alt, no climbing above that alt before icon range, at icon range anything goes...if you fly straight past each other its just a matter of who can yank his stick faster around to get guns first...
IMO...the Maneuvering part begins long before you pass each other...
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^This^
Fly directly towards your apponent at assaigned altitude, head on untill icons, then anything (except head on firing) goes.
I like the idea that the point in time when the Icon appears is clear and definable. Otherwise, for instance, what shall you call the "merge" ? When you physically pass him? When you cant see him in your front view ?
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I completely disagree with that concept
the duel is..... meet at the same alt, no climbing above that alt before icon range, at icon range anything goes...if you fly straight past each other its just a matter of who can yank his stick faster around to get guns first...
IMO...the Maneuvering part begins long before you pass each other...
That's fine Ink but not maneuvering until you make a level pass is also fine. You just want to be clear on which rule you're following before you start. :D
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That's fine Ink but not maneuvering until you make a level pass is also fine. You just want to be clear on which rule you're following before you start. :D
this I can except :aok
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Cheating the merge is a fairly easy and significantly decisive way to lure a less experienced pilot into a fight he can not win. Both times that I have dueled in AH I was facing merge cheaters, and they were pretending acting as if it was a non-issue.
merge cheaters :rofl
How does one cheat on the merge? Or are you confusing a "cheat merge" with someone that actually knows proper merge tactics and you just don't?
ack-ack
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Very true, however the mentality in this game is different from what is taught at air combat schools. No big deal there, either. This is a game.
Then your compliant isn't that the typical behavior of the AH player is to cheat in duels with their gamer mentality, but that you don't like how duels are fought.
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merge cheaters :rofl
How does one cheat on the merge? Or are you confusing a "cheat merge" with someone that actually knows proper merge tactics and you just don't?
ack-ack
:rofl :rofl
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I wasn't sure where Turner was going with his OP because we did spend about an hour fighting the other day at his request.
I thought all of the same plane duels were fair and under normal circumstances. I was a bit :headscratch: when he started asking for auto pilot passes but they had no effect on the end result. I had the impression that he was going for altitude every fight so remained loose on the stick on most merges being unable to work enough position in height was his main problem.
I apologise if I misunderstood what you were asking for but I'm used to fighting and have a full closet of different styles to employ at any moments notice. Trying to fly away from your opponent isn't really done but I knew this was going to be the state of play so I did not judge you on it at the time and did my best to let you re-engage without being completely on your six.
I thoroughly enjoyed the P40 vs 190 fight and would love to do it again. :salute
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merge cheaters :rofl
How does one cheat on the merge? Or are you confusing a "cheat merge" with someone that actually knows proper merge tactics and you just don't?
ack-ack
This is what I thought.... But the opponent could called deck merge and then climbed until icon range and dove in with a load of extra E
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This is what I thought.... But the opponent could called deck merge and then climbed until icon range and dove in with a load of extra E
That isn't merge cheating that is just lying lol.
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Been to the dueling arena a few times................got horded by 11 enemy.
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I don't do a lot of dueling but unless someone tells me other wise I operated under what I consider to be the "standard" dueling etiquette. Take off, climb to the agreed upon altitude (not above), level, once you hit icons it's game on, maneuver as you see fit, first merge is guns cold.
Nice, simple, easy to follow.
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Take off, climb to the agreed upon altitude (not above), level once you hit icons it's game on, maneuver as you see fit, first merge is guns cold.
Nice, simple, easy to follow.
^^THIS^^ :joystick:
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It's obvious you haven't dueled much. Allow me to provide some historical context.
Back in early Air Warrior you were able to arrange a private duel in the main arena. You simply challenged someone, they accepted and you were alone in the arena. It was common to take off from the same airfield in opposite directions. Once you'd cleared icon range, or at a pre-agreed range, you'd turn to merge, most often with both players anouncing their turn. As soon as you'd turned the fight was on. As with AH today the first merge was guns cold.
Nothing has changed since then except you have to take off from different airfieds thus the set alt requirement prior to icon range. Under the old arrangement each player had an equal chance to get alt so there was no requirement.
You were obviously under some type of misconception about how duels work. There's really nothing different in a duel than in the MA except you won't get a face full of lead on the first merge and your opponent won't have a horde of buddies arrive to help.
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There is a difference then in our understanding of dueling. On that note I am not in this for a forum fight nor am I in it for some kind of popularity contest. I still consider pre-merge maneuvering to be off limits for a straight up 1v1. It sets the fight to a neutral start making it more challenging for both ensuring that it is a matter of pilot vs pilot more so than plane vs plane. The classic start in a 1v1 duel of similar a/c types is a vertical climb immediately after merging that may develop into a climbing spiral until either plane stall.
You may proceed bashing me if you like, as if I care.
Edit: Bruv119, to say that one plane is allowed to take advantage of its strengths in a duel while the other isn't is pure mindless stupidity. Why don't you just set yourself up for some target practice then? Oh... well that's exactly what you do anyway isn't it. To prohibit a P51 or FW190 from extending during a duel is exactly the same as telling a spitfire it is not allowed to pull more than 3 G's. I am apalled that someone with your experience think that this would be a fair way to conduct a duel. Forgive me it's nothing personal I just react strongly to your claim that it would be 'fair' to effectively prevent a 190 from having a chance.
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The DA is worthless because it has F-3 mode. About every moron that comes to the DA is in F-3 and flying a perk bird he can't afford in the MA, spraying the sky with cannon like a garden hose so what is the point? It teaches you nothing.
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- Each pilot takes responsibility for the condition/E-state they are in before commencing a fight.
- Approach to merge is solely based on pilots preference.
- Pilots either announce their turn over chat or by approaching the merge with their airplane in the pre-determined position; or they dont announce at all. Consecutive fights generally adopt the non-chat announcements for time-saving as you will find.
On a side note: While bruv119 is right, he is wrong as well. By principle the type of fighting that goes on here is generally down and dirty and more like wrestling then a joust. But in a duel it does not mean if someone wants to joust, that it is against the rules; just against the expectations of most pilots.
It is obvious that bruv119 wants to play into the idea of how great he is by trying to symbolically dictate the terms of the battle and thus winning before fighting in order to secure his idea of himself. Whereas his opponent in that example wishes to preserve his own idea of his flying skills by not giving in to bruv119's gesture but due to bruv119s reputation, such a stance causes him guilt because he feels the need to justify himself for the act against the collective awareness of who hes fighting.
If someone is serious about a duel they will agree on using the same plane with the same loadout and fuel to remove this possibility.
Peace out.
:airplane:
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My experience was that I wanted to get a duel from which I could learn something. Fair enough the importance of coming to an agreement on how it was to be executed was underlined to me, but while dueling I felt the opportunity to learn was destroyed by the adversary's desire to just win the fight. I have not been active for 2 months roughly so knew I was unable to give it my best. Was looking for fun hoping to learn something from it while getting to know another player. None of my expectations were met really.
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My experience was that I wanted to get a duel from which I could learn something. Fair enough the importance of coming to an agreement on how it was to be executed was underlined to me, but while dueling I felt the opportunity to learn was destroyed by the adversary's desire to just win the fight. I have not been active for 2 months roughly so knew I was unable to give it my best. Was looking for fun hoping to learn something from it while getting to know another player. None of my expectations were met really.
In real air combat training newbies often make a neutral pass before maneuvering for safety reasons. This is not a concern in Aces High but a neutral pass is an acceptable condition when stated prior to the start.
Extending to reset the fight is not appropriate to a duel. Nobody wants to wait 10 minutes while somebody climbs away from them. When you have to extend you are saying that you were in a position where you'd lose if you didn't exit. Resetting the fight is ending the first fight and starting the second one.
As in the merge you need to state the conditions for the duel prior to starting. If both parties agree to the faster better climbing aircraft taking all day to extend and improve their position that's fine but personally I wouldn't agree to it.
If your intention in a duel is destroyed by your opponent wanting to win then you don't want a duel, you want training.
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The DA is worthless because it has F-3 mode.
anyone you duel that is at least worth their arse isn't in F3 mode. sure, you may have the occasional F3 moron over the lake, but to call the DA worthless based on some half-cocked assumption that "every is doing it" is simply ignorant.
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You may proceed bashing me if you like, as if I care.
Not exactly seeing where I bashed you unless telling someone they misunderstood is bashing.
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I think I know where Turner is coming from. Back when I first started in AH the first dueling ladder I was in, 2000 I think, the rules were merge at same altitude , no maneuvering until after the merge. Since then diving at the merge, lead turns etc. seem to have become the norm.
shamus
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I think I know where Turner is coming from. Back when I first started in AH the first dueling ladder I was in, 2000 I think, the rules were merge at same altitude , no maneuvering until after the merge. Since then diving at the merge, lead turns etc. seem to have become the norm.
shamus
Exactly where he is coming from.
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Exactly where he is coming from.
In the old days it was pretty much strait up duel, today everyone's looking for an edge instead of going head to head counting on skill.
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I think I'm done with this discussion, I would like to add this though as food for thought. There are no true masters, only true students. If you lack the burning desire to learn something new, you are none of the two... but a fool indeed if you think you are.
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Here's dessert for your food for thought. :cheers:
The smaller the understanding the more pretentious the explanation.
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If someone is serious about a duel they will agree on using the same plane with the same loadout and fuel to remove this possibility.
at the time I was un-aware that Turner is completely alien to common dueling practices. Even selecting the same plane with 25% fuel seemed to put him off. Then the focus turned to the merge after strictly E-fighting didn't have the desired effect.
The last fight we had was the only one not in the same aircraft we went P40N vs 190A5 (he said pick a plane without me knowing what he wanted to fly), that negated the difference in skill and Turner finally managed to use the planes advantages successfully after 5 minutes of reversals and counter pings. Did I enjoy that fight? Not really, if I want to get BnZ ed to death I can do that in the MA ;). Did I come to the forum and suggest the whole concept of people dueling in AH is incorrect? No.
I'm putting this one down to a big difference in opinion and was going to leave it until it was obviously directed at me. I went in there for some fun / help a fellow AH er get back on his feet. :rolleyes:
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Edit: Bruv119, to say that one plane is allowed to take advantage of its strengths in a duel while the other isn't is pure mindless stupidity. Why don't you just set yourself up for some target practice then? Oh... well that's exactly what you do anyway isn't it. To prohibit a P51 or FW190 from extending during a duel is exactly the same as telling a spitfire it is not allowed to pull more than 3 G's. I am apalled that someone with your experience think that this would be a fair way to conduct a duel. Forgive me it's nothing personal I just react strongly to your claim that it would be 'fair' to effectively prevent a 190 from having a chance.
Not once did I question your tactics or prohibit "extending" mid fight. Even Dis-engaging when I was on your 6, with enough energy to follow you. As you say not much fun chasing the same plane 400-600 yards behind taking pot shots. Some people can try and force an overshoot if they get enough separation but not if your right behind them.
Kind of like Debrody asking for re-merges when he initiates a turning circle fight and loses it. :old:
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I think I'm done with this discussion, I would like to add this though as food for thought. There are no true masters, only true students. If you lack the burning desire to learn something new, you are none of the two... but a fool indeed if you think you are.
I am one of the worst shots ingame, even though I have been flying in AH for about 7 years.
I can fly with the best of them, probably get guns on them first.....
you think passing each other wingtip to wingtip is a duel, I say you are wrong in the understanding of what a duel is....
first off, when it is done this way it just comes down to who can yak the stick back faster....there is no skill in that.
second off, dueling is a skill for killing the red guy, in the MA where most killing and dieing is done you want to know how to kill as fast as possible, just for the simple fact of the massive hoards...of course if you always are in the massive green hoard it don't matter what you do you will never really learn how to fight....
the merge is where the fight/duel is won or lost...if you really want to learn how to merge, I would have no problem taking ya to the TA and show ya how to merge, I don't say DA because in the DA...you cant take hits and reset....which is one of the best things to do for truly learning.....
don't take any of this as insults its not meant that way....if you really wanna learn.....lets go to the TA.
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Here's dessert for your food for thought. :cheers:
The smaller the understanding the more pretentious the explanation.
I appreciate your comment, but do not believe you understood mine. It was not disrespectful in any way, and the dessert is all yours. :cheers:
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What the hells this thread all about? Someone goes to the trouble of helping you and you come in to GD and post that your experience with him is that hes a cheater?? :rolleyes:
Dunno how your backing out of this still believing this comes down to a matter of opinion, if you had any sort of character you'd have posted an apology for wrongly accusing someone who was trying to help you of cheating Turner.
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See rules 9 and 10 of dueling:
Rule 9. All imputations of cheating at play, races, etc., to be considered equivalent to a blow; but may be reconciled after one shot, on admitting their falsehood and begging pardon publicly.
Rule 10. Any insult to a lady under a gentleman's care or protection to be considered as, by one degree, a greater offense than if given to the gentleman personally, and to be regulated accordingly.
:aok
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anyone you duel that is at least worth their arse isn't in F3 mode. sure, you may have the occasional F3 moron over the lake, but to call the DA worthless based on some half-cocked assumption that "every is doing it" is simply ignorant.
I've had enough duels in the past few years, generally I have a set of rules - I don't openly duel just anyone. I ran into my fair share of "Hoers" or "picks their OWN ride....", ones who on a Cold merge 5k alt climb to 10k then dive to BnZ until fuel runs out.
Waste of time unless you know who you are flying against.
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There are smack talking idiots who haven't a clue.
This was a polite PM request out of the blue to do some fights, I won't go to the DA for anyone but no ill words were spoken at all throughout. I am a little disturbed this thread took the direction it has but everyone who has ever fought me will never question any foul play. Except the tinfoil hat guys :noid
If you want training then ask for my advice. Don't ask for a fight then jump back on your high horse and attempt a verbal assassination of Aces High duelers.
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There are smack talking idiots who haven't a clue.
These are the ones to avoid, generally not even worth the time to duel. I lost flavor in dueling lately, only a handful of sticks are worth the time invested.
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Dueling should really be about learning ACM techniques and friendly fair 1 on 1 competition IMO. I usually go into a duel expecting to lose because I'm not a dueler really, so don't put a lot of time in doing it. Mostly because I don't the egos of some kids and those types that run in that crowd. I'm just looking for those 1 or 2 good moves I can use in the MA. Unfortunately too many guys think a duel win somehow proves their manhood or worth to the internet world.
Nothing better then spanking a 17 yr old ego inflated dueler with his own move. :devil
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Nothing better then spanking a 17 yr old ego inflated dueler with his own move ride. :devil
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:huh How long have you been playing 33Vortex? :headscratch:
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Drama Queens!
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I know one merge only that a pilot must avoid: the Dick's merge. :D
:salute
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I know one merge only that a pilot must avoid: the Dick's merge. :D
:salute
That's what she said?