Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 1701E on April 21, 2012, 02:31:29 PM
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I know we have some professional photographers around so I'm looking for some buying suggestions.
I've been using a Canon T50 SLR (http://elftown.com/stuff/aj/105236/1334720867.jpg)(circa 1980s) for the past year or so and have gotten use to it, but it seems its time has come. The camera is getting worse and worse with quality and even even taking a picture, two batches of Film came out blank despite having been used no more than a week ago. So, I'm looking for a good DSLR Camera and Lens for continued use. I primarily use the camera for Plant-life, landscapes and Airshows (Been using primarily an 80 to 210mm lens and a 50mm lens).
Some examples of the most common usage:
(http://elftown.com/stuff/aj/105236/1334720962.jpg)
(http://elftown.com/stuff/aj/105236/1335034778.jpg)
(http://elfpack.com/stuff/FiFi_B-29.jpg)
(http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Xcelsior1701/Camera/img005.jpg)
So, again, looking for a good DSLR Camera and Lens for the appropriate usage, with any luck without having to sell my kidney and lung. :)
Thanks for any help.
<S>
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I've always been happy with my phones camera, i've taken a few good ones every now and then
(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/railroadtracks.jpg)
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You may find this thread helpful...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,295596.0.html
:salute
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I use a Nikon D90 myself. I don't know much about Canon but, if their older lenses are compatible with a newer DSLR then by all means stay with cannon so you can continue to use the lenses you already own. If they are not useable then go to a photography store and hold both Nikon and Canon and get which ever one YOU feel more comfortable holding. Clearly I am going to recommend Nikon just as someone who uses Canon will recommend a Canon. Get what you like. You really can't go wrong with either brand. This is my store of choice for camera gear. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ Now I am in no way shape or form a professional. This is just one of my many expensive hobbies.
Here are some of my pictures with my D90 and my favorite lens that I own AF-D 80-200mm 2.8 (the ducati and fifi photos were different lenses)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5126/5280334171_d2947832c0_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4051/4413008878_6579be8eca_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4040/4486913512_fd06ae4f98_o.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6240/6209833597_e4a021f811_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7062/7033565807_d8ecdc5cd4_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7121/7033567903_376af1b69a_b.jpg)
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I know PfactorDave is a professional using Canon, so if you want to stick with Canon he's the guy to ask.
I'm a part-time photographer (meaning I have a real job but I shoot youth sports, family portraits etc.. on the side mostly to pay for my wildlife and nature photography hobby) I presently use Sony/Minolta gear but have been contemplating switching to Nikon (still a Sony sensor) when my present body dies or becomes hopelessly outdated. I'm just not super thrilled with the new line of Sony bodies with electronic viewfinders, they work and have their advantages, but I still prefer a full frame 100% optical VF.
Honesty I think it's hard to go wrong in the DSLR market today, Canon, Nikon, Sony and Pentax all make fine cameras (sorry Olympus not a fan of M43 sensors, and Sigma became a joke with the $10,000 SD1) that are usually more capable then the photographers using them. Don't get to caught up in the specs of the body though, in the digital age there is always a newer better camera body, they will come and go. It's the lenses that really make a system, and in the digital age they will long outlast the camera body.
If you just need basic walk around, wide angle, and mid-tele lenses, any of the 4 makers I mentioned will have all the lenses you'd want. If you want to get into really spendy stuff like super-fast or super long telephoto, or odd stuff like tilt/shift lenses then Canon or Nikon have a better selection (keep in mind I'm talking about very, very $$$$$$$ lenses here) also third party makers like Sigma, Tamron and Tokina make a huge selections of lenses although they are usually not up to par optically with the likes of Canon L, or Nikkor G, or Sony/Minolta G or Carl Zeiss lenses.
I don't know much about Canon but, if their older lenses are compatible with a newer DSLR then by all means stay with cannon
Don't think that they are. I could be wrong but I seem to recall that they went with a completely different mount when they can out with the EOS line in the late 80's. I'm sure somebody makes a ring adapter though.
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What's your budget? If I know what you are looking to spend, I can suggest a body that will give you the best bang for your buck.
Yes, I'm a die hard Canon guy, and a full time professional photographer. Here's most of what I carry when I am working a sports event like Baseball or Football. Add a flash unit, a 1.4 tele-extender, a 2x tele-extender, a shooters vest, a two camera harness system, and some trash bags (in case it rains they make excellent disposable covers for the gear that I can use and keep working.) and you'd have my basic sports rig.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/IMG_6944.jpg)
I agree with Saggs, Canon and Nikon are the way to go if you want to get even more serious at some point down the road, simply because of the wide variety of lenses and accessories.
I personally will never recommend a third party lens. I've had Tokina and Tamron lenses in the past, while less expensive then Canon lenses, they are quite sub par in comparison. The difference between a Tokina 300mm f2.8 and a Canon 300mm f2.8 is quite stunning. I literally gave all my Tamron and Tokina lense away to my sister-in-law and replaced them with Canon glass.
Something you might want to look into is a macro lens and a set of extension tubes. You can do some really cool close up flower shots. Here's a photo I took a couple years ago with a 100mm Macro lens of a gerber daisy. I love the color and that you can see the pollen. Forgive the quality a bit, this is a scan of a print (my scanner is crappy and old), it was easier to take it off the wall in the bathroom then search the archives for the digital file. :D
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/Flower.jpg)
Nothing you buy today is going to take your current lenses, unfortunately. So choosing a brand and the direction you want to go is very important for you now. For me, I'm a Canon guy and if I didn't want to be a Canon guy... I'd still be a Canon guy. There's probably $15000 worth of gear in that photo above, maybe more then that if I do the math. Switching systems now, would be very expensive for me (Not that I want to or anything) , and you should see all of the other stuff I own on top of whats in the photo.
I love my gear and I'm looking forward to the new high speed sports camera that Canon is bringing to market. Fourteen frames per second and ISO speeds that are essentially night vision! :banana:
The important thing is to choose a system, whether it is Nikon or Canon or whatever, that can grow with you as your interests and skills grow. Like Saggs says though, the bodies get better all the time. Your real investment is your lenses. Always buy the best glass that you can for a given application. Your lenses will transfer to the latest and greatest body when it comes out.
I've had that 300mm f2.8 for almost 10 years now. I've worn out 2 or 3 shutters on at least 3 different camera bodies in that time period.
Of course, I'm not saying you should run out and drop 15 grand on L series lenses and top of the line bodies. I'm saying you should pick a system that you can get into for whatever your budget is, but as your interests evolve, you can upgrade to better glass and better bodies one piece at a time as you can afford them without ever having to completely change systems.
I did my first wedding with a Canon A2e (35mm film), a Tamron 28-105 f2.8 lens, and a flash unit (I can't remember which model I had). Did my first sports with an old Canon AE-1 with an auto winder on the bottom and 70-200mm manual focus lens. Now I shoot a Canon 5D Mk2 and a 1D Mk3 with all L series lenses. I slowly upgraded stage by stage over the years to what I use now.
On a photography related note... Here's a photo I took yesterday. A local High School softball team has a player whose mother is fighting breast cancer. They hosted a tournament yesterday and wore special pink uniforms for the event. When the tournament ended, we did this shot of the girls standing in the shape of a breast cancer awareness ribbon. They're going to get it mounted on a plaque with an encouraging inscription and present it to the girl's mother before she undergoes surgery in a few weeks.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/Vertical8x10Croppedsmall.jpg)
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I'm a part-time photographer (meaning I have a real job but I shoot youth sports, family portraits etc.. on the side mostly to pay for my wildlife and nature photography hobby) I presently use Sony/Minolta gear but have been contemplating switching to Nikon (still a Sony sensor) when my present body dies or becomes hopelessly outdated. I'm just not super thrilled with the new line of Sony bodies with electronic viewfinders, they work and have their advantages, but I still prefer a full frame 100% optical VF.
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Kinda same story here.. I've been with Sony ( assimilated Minolta owner ) since the A100 came out. Just picked up the A77.. and that VF does take a little getting used to. I haven't done enough with it to formulate an definitive opinion, though I'm a little disappointed in rapid fire mode ( 12 fps ) as the VF can't keep up with the current image.. you just have to wait until the burst mode is over and you'll know what you got when you review it.. Though, to be honest, even with the mirror, it's hard to know what you're really getting too. Aside from that, though.. the A77 is sweet.
As others have said.. the lenses will make the difference. I have 2 Zeiss/Sony lenses that are simply awesome. Well worth the extra $$$.
Good luck!
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This is something i've kind of wanted to get into since I was 14, how would I as a 16 year old be recommended to start into this?
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I've always been happy with my phones camera, i've taken a few good ones every now and then
(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/railroadtracks.jpg)
I have yet to find a camera that will take pictures at night as well as my built in iPhone camera.
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/546595_2889778044037_1247804014_32156293_1316266459_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/389932_2249144348595_1247804014_31910260_1981038800_n.jpg)
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/431432_2785005224782_1247804014_32108735_997197231_n.jpg)
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I have yet to find a camera that will take pictures at night as well as my built in iPhone camera.
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/546595_2889778044037_1247804014_32156293_1316266459_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/389932_2249144348595_1247804014_31910260_1981038800_n.jpg)
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/431432_2785005224782_1247804014_32108735_997197231_n.jpg)
Beautiful... I envy you, my droid does an ok job at night time photo's. I know for a fact there's a telescopic lens that goes with the iphone, i've seen it before on face book. How many megapixels is your iphone?
Edit: Found it! haha http://www.dsstyles.com/accessories/iphone-accessories-iphone-telephoto-lens.html?src=gb_us¤cy=USD (http://www.dsstyles.com/accessories/iphone-accessories-iphone-telephoto-lens.html?src=gb_us¤cy=USD)
(http://ak.buy.com/PI/0/350/226531882.jpg)
(http://www.honshinkan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/iphone-telephoto-lens-additional-lens-for-iPhone.jpg)
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Beautiful... I envy you, my droid does an ok job at night time photo's. I know for a fact there's a telescopic lense that goes with the iphone, i've seen it before on face book. How many megapixels is your iphone?
8, although IIRC the zoom is digital just like the other iPhones.
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8, although IIRC the zoom is digital just like the other iPhones.
Same, mine is 8, the lens on mine sticks out like a sore thumb. I know on the iphone the camera is really tiny.
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Same, mine is 8, the lens on mine sticks out like a sore thumb. I know on the iphone the camera is really tiny.
HEY! My camera isn't tiny, it's average. :D
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HEY! My camera isn't tiny, it's average. :D
:rofl :rofl :rofl Now that just made my day
On a more serious note, i've been wanting to talk to you about getting a pilots license, can you PM me?
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Nice highjacking guys. He is not interested in a camera phone. He is asking about a DSLR. As for night shots, get back to me when your iphone can take a picture like this:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5015/5545837325_58ac999331_b.jpg)
I'll bet money it will just look like a white light in the sky
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This is something i've kind of wanted to get into since I was 14, how would I as a 16 year old be recommended to start into this?
My opinion on starting - Get a camera, any camera, and start taking pictures. Seriously. That is step one, shooting lots of photos and seeing what works and what doesn't.
AFTER you start shooting (maybe 5 seconds later) go to the library (either a real library or search online) and read everything you can find about photography. When you start reading, start with the basics on subjects like what shutter speed and aperture mean, then go from there. You can read about composition but don't get obsessed with setting up shots until you pretty much instinctively know how the picture will turn out anyhow, based on lighting and other conditions.
The only way to get that feel for how a shot will come out is to just take lots of pictures. And you can do that with almost ANY camera.
After a while, you will want a camera that lets you change settings. But you don't need an SLR to start out. You can "get into photography" with a camera phone if you really had to, but I'd suggest a regular digital camera that lets you fiddle with basic settings so you can experiment and decide what you want your second camera to be able to do.
Eventually you will want to get into photo processing, since that's one way to adjust for camera limitations and turn a good photo into a great one. You can start with free utilities (Like GIMP) but I think that a large number of books and online guides will assume you're using some version of photoshop or another commercial program. You do not NEED to pay a lot for photo editing utilities especially as you learn how to do this stuff, but if you get into it to make money you will probably eventually pay for some serious software.
Oh yea, almost forgot... Although you should still start snapping pictures TODAY with whatever you have, one big investment you will eventually want to do is a good computer monitor for image processing. The cheap "TN" based LCD monitors are horrible for color reproduction and the colors change when you move your head in front of the screen. You will probably want an IPS based screen. There are some new slightly cheaper "IPS" panels that aren't quite as good as the best IPS panels but they cost half as much. A cheap 20-24" TN panel will cost less than $200, a really nice IPS screen will cost anywhere from $400-$700, but some of the newer cheaper IPS ones can be as low as $350ish. You need to be SURE what panel you are getting before you buy, because while the cheap ones are never IPS, sometimes they will sneak a TN panel into a more expensive monitor. If the specs do not specifically say "IPS", you're probably getting a TN panel no matter what the price. Also, you will want to get some sort of color calibration device. I got a "spyder elite pro" for a bit over $100 that does the job just fine. Some of the better monitors now come calibrated from the factory, but I think most computer monitors are not calibrated at all so they need to be calibrated before using them for any sort of photography work. My IPS screens came with way too much red saturation so skin tones looked almost cartoonish. After calibration they looked great.
Very few laptops have IPS screens and the ones that do are very expensive, but IPS is the way to go for color accuracy. I can't imagine going back to TN monitors for my main computer, they look that bad to me.
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Nice highjacking guys. He is not interested in a camera phone. He is asking about a DSLR. As for night shots, get back to me when your iphone can take a picture like this:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5015/5545837325_58ac999331_b.jpg)
I'll bet money it will just look like a white light in the sky
Oh it can take a picture like that. Just not from the actual moon :)
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Nice highjacking guys. He is not interested in a camera phone. He is asking about a DSLR. As for night shots, get back to me when your iphone can take a picture like this:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5015/5545837325_58ac999331_b.jpg)
I'll bet money it will just look like a white light in the sky
Interesting challenge. I'll take a moon shot with my droid next chance I get to see what happens. :)
Can I lasso the moon and pull it closer or is that against the rules. :D
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Kinda same story here.. I've been with Sony ( assimilated Minolta owner ) since the A100 came out. Just picked up the A77.. and that VF does take a little getting used to. I haven't done enough with it to formulate an definitive opinion, though I'm a little disappointed in rapid fire mode ( 12 fps ) as the VF can't keep up with the current image.. you just have to wait until the burst mode is over and you'll know what you got when you review it.. Though, to be honest, even with the mirror, it's hard to know what you're really getting too. Aside from that, though.. the A77 is sweet.
As others have said.. the lenses will make the difference. I have 2 Zeiss/Sony lenses that are simply awesome. Well worth the extra $$$.
Good luck!
Yea, I've been with Minolta/Sony since 1990 when I bought a second hand Maxxum 9000 w/ motor drive, since then I've had an Maxxum 800si, 7 and 9 and presently a Alpha 700 and 900. I still think my Maxxum 9 was the greatest SLR ever built, construction like a tank, perfect ergonomics and controls, excellent meter and speed, to this day I regret selling it when the A700 came along.
My current issue is in addition to not clicking with the EVF, I've got some serious lens envy as well. My favorite photography is wildlife, and as you know long fast lenses aren't cheap. But when Sony recently (finally) announced the 500mm f4 "G" which I would love to get, I was shocked to realize that I could buy a Nikkor 500mm f4 + a D800 + a Nikkor 70-200 2.8 for the same as the Sony lens alone. Even the Sony 300mm f2.8 is like 40% more then the same Nikon. Problem is I have probably ~$5-6k already invested in Minolta/Sony/CZ glass, and would no doubt take a huge hit financially to switch.
In all honesty I will stick with Sony for at least another year before I do anything rash. It's possible that Sony is ahead of the curve and in 3-4 years even the new Canikon bodies will be EVF (though likely much better then current ones). The Sony lens pricing still irritates me though.
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This is something i've kind of wanted to get into since I was 14, how would I as a 16 year old be recommended to start into this?
Shuffler offered sound advice take it.
I would add this; Remember that there is basically 2 sides to photography, the technology/gear side and the artistic side. To be a good photographer you need to do well at both. For example you could have the greatest gear in the world, and a great artistic eye, but if you don't know how to get the most out of that gear you will never reach it's potential. The flip side is having great gear and knowing how to use it, but having no artistic talent at all.
What I see a lot of is people with great gear, who don't know how to use it, and have not artistic talent. Like the mom I saw at a soccer game I was photographing for a team last fall. She had a Canon 7D, with a 70-200mm f2.8 "L" lens. (arguably better gear then the A700 and Minolta 80-200mm f2.8 I was using) After I had photographed the game and done team/individual pictures she comes up and asks me "Can you tell me what all these buttons and dials do?" and "How come my pictures are all blurry?" Apparently her husband bought it for her, because she wanted to photograph her girls sports, and he read on the internet that it was the best. She had no clue and was just flipping to random settings hoping to find what worked. To make matters worse her composition was horrible too. I took her camera and set it to aperture priority at f4, auto ISO, continuous AF and just told here to leave it there.
In general most photographers are not limited by their equipment but by their own talent. That's why like Shuffler said, start with a simple, cheapish camera (you can pick up second hand film SLRs for well under $100, or even 1st get digital SlRs for not much more, lenses too). When your skills reach the point where your equipment is holding you back, you will know it, and by then you will be knowledgeable enough to know what kind of equipment you need for the kind of work you do.
For the technology side of photography the best online resource I've found is this website http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/ go there and start with reading all of their "photo essentials" tutorials. It will help you understand what all the knobs and buttons do, and how they effect the photograph.
For the gear side, find a forum that is specific to the brand you choose.
For the Artistic side, it's mostly just a whole lot of trial and error, you can also browse online photo sharing sites like flickr, smugmug, photosig, dpreview etc.. to get ideas. I find looking at the work of others that I like, gets my own creative juices flowing. There are some basics like leading lines and rule of thirds, framing and so forth, but you can't learn it from a book I feel. Some people have a natural knack for composition, posing etc., others don't. But even if you don't, you can still develop it I believe, you just have to work harder.
As a side note, for wildlife photography like I do, there is another important aspect as well, and that is biology. You can't photograph wildlife if you don't know where and when to find it. Oh and patience, lots and lots of patience.
I've let my own website languish without updates for the past 2 years (been to busy with school and work) but if you want to see a small sampling of my work you can check it out here www.kirksagers.com hopefully sometime this year I will revamp my website and add a LOT more content.
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Interesting challenge. I'll take a moon shot with my droid next chance I get to see what happens. :)
Can I lasso the moon and pull it closer or is that against the rules. :D
Interesting. Since camera phones don't have a spot meter (that I know of) I'm with Silver. I think it would fool the meter and you'd just get an big overexposed blob against a dark background. Unless you "digital zoom" (AKA crop in camera) close enough to fill most of the frame with moon, in which case you'd lose most of the resolution.
FWIW I took this shot
(http://www.kirksagers.com/Nature/Misc/The-Moon/217610354_uC3pb-M-2.jpg)
without metering at all, I just followed the "sunny f16" rule, since the moon is light by sunlight it works. Shot with a 400mm f5.6, at f16, ISO 200 and 1/200s I believe. (I may have also tweaked the exposure some in Lightroom I don't recall)
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Nice highjacking guys. He is not interested in a camera phone. He is asking about a DSLR. As for night shots, get back to me when your iphone can take a picture like this:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5015/5545837325_58ac999331_b.jpg)
I'll bet money it will just look like a white light in the sky
Cannon Digital Rebel XSI
He's right. ;)
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x311/archywood/jack_moon.jpg)
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x311/archywood/jack_orions_belt.jpg)
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Thanks for all the help guys! :D
More than likely I'll stick with Canon simply because I'm a sucker for using the same brands a lot (least when they work well). Likely price range will be ~800-1100 (In place of the Summer out-of-state Tuition) for a Body and single lens, preferably a Lens fit best for airshows if that isn't more than the price in of itself.
The best I can get with the 80-210mm I am really fine with, but any better would be more than welcome:
(http://elfpack.com/stuff/aj/41532/1309762703.jpg)
Being that I really have only ever used the T50 with its fairly simple and straight forward usage most Camera settings are foreign to me. That's another part of the reason for upgrading, to learn some more with other settings.
I'll definitely get back to your PM about Canon, PFactor. :)
I'd love to be able to afford a few lenses for a few uses, but I'm hardly rolling in money...or even coins for that matter.
And you people are making me jealous, the pictures Silver, Factor and Jack have posted are amazing. One day I'll get close to that. :)
Also, I saw that Canon has an FD Lens to EF Body adapter, would that in any way work? I know the T50 uses the FD mount and read the new Canon standard is EF, would it be worth the $40 test or just not even worth it?
Thanks again!
<S>
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If you go to certain events like airshows only once or twice a year, you can always rent a lens. I've used www.lensrentals.com several times and have never had a problem. It great for when you want to try a lens before you buy or if you only need a particular lens once. :aok
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such a shame the camera companies completely forgot the whole concept of 35mm rangefinders - pocketable, light, sturdy, decent fast prime lens with easy access to focus/aperture/shutter controls. that is what you need to learn how to make good images and its taken them ?15yrs to produce digital versions which are almost as good. and you have to pay at least £1000 for them. :rolleyes:
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nice night for moon shots, let's see those phone camera photos.
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Also, I saw that Canon has an FD Lens to EF Body adapter, would that in any way work? I know the T50 uses the FD mount and read the new Canon standard is EF, would it be worth the $40 test or just not even worth it?
If you can afford to get started with some modern equipment, then that's what I would suggest. Adapters like the one you mentioned are still extremelt outdated. If you can afford to make the jump to digital, you should. The benefits are great, and getting greater every year.
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I'm just not super thrilled with the new line of Sony bodies with electronic viewfinders, they work and have their advantages, but I still prefer a full frame 100% optical VF.
Saggs,
To follow up on some lessons learned with the A77.. Sad to say, but that viewfinder doesn't work for sports shooting where you need the burst rate. Between the lag in the image appearing in the viewfinder ( I may need to see if there's a setting that keeps that active all the time ) and the lack of memory write speeds, it's just not going to work, reliably, for what I've been doing for the last few years. Whoops. If SONY releases all their new high end bodies with that infernal SD memory and this EV, I'll have to bite the bullet and go Canon or Nikon, also.. sigh. Gotta tell the kid she can only attend a 3 year college..
Aside from that, tho.. if you don't need the bursting for more than a second every 30 seconds, or so.. the A77 does some really cool stuff.
It's great for examining the effectiveness of your lawn-mower blade..
(http://www.ka4zzq.com/Mongrels/LR_Mushroom.jpg)
I think I need to get mine sharpened...