Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rich52 on May 04, 2012, 07:46:33 AM
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Post your favorite hunting and fishing pics and videos. Heres my kid at 9yo harvesting his first animal http://youtu.be/YPThTw7-xH8
A big King Salmon on light line. http://youtu.be/rfrDq3SVvkU
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WOOO HOOO dead animal pics. I'm ready :aok :x
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WOOO HOOO dead animal pics. I'm ready :aok :x
I know you are. And you just couldnt help clicking the links could you? Like you couldnt help posting. But if you have nothing positive to add to the thread I'd appreciate you staying out of it. This is for the sportsmen and woman in the game.
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I know you are. And you just couldnt help clicking the links could you? Like you couldnt help posting. But if you have nothing positive to add to the thread I'd appreciate you staying out of it. This is for the sportsmen and woman in the game.
You jump to conclusions awfully quickly for a LEO. Perhaps it is the senility setting in? :neener:
No, I'm serious. Now nobody can complain about the pics. HiTech said to make a new thread for hunting and you did :aok
Just no pics of white tails, please.
I live in PA and we have more of them here than we do people because the bleeding hearts have all but halted the population control hunts.
If I want to see a white tail, I can just look out my back window and watch them decimate my garden. At least they leave the hops alone, though.
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Heres a 30 & 1/2" African waterbuck.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/waterbuck.jpg)
Even Africa residents go their entire lives without getting a 30. We walked all day looking for this one, dodging Rhinos and Buffalo in the Bushveldt. When I saw him my PH didnt have to say a word, I knew what I was looking at. It was a 200 yrd chipshot but to my horror the animal ran off apparently unharmed. When we inspected where he was at we saw the limb my bullet hit and richochet off of. The fur of the waterbuck is the same exact color as the tree limbs in the bush and I never saw it. While I was sick I lost the animal of a lifetime I was relieved he was OK and not wounded.
After lunch my PH said lets go back to the same area and sure as hell we ended up finding the same buck and this time I dropped him in his tracks with the big .375.
Here is the absolute worst animal you can walk up on in the African bush. The Black Rhino. Luckily we had the wind and just froze for 10 mins until he walked off. Being lucky enough to see a black in the wild means more to me then any animal I ever killed with gun or bow.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/blkrhino.jpg)
Heres the 2nd worst. A white mama with her baby.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/rhino-babe.jpg)
Even if all you hunt with is with a camera everyone should go to Africa once in their lives. Sporthunting is a huge industry there and generates the money for conservation officers and habitat protection. By Law, and everywhere else I hunt, no edible meat can be wasted or left. Its all eaten. Thats why I get a laugh out of the knuckleheads who think we just shoot the animals, pose with them, and then leave them to rot. :lol
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Mega-awesome catch.
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/206809_1004641679523_1329301223_30019551_3679_n.jpg)
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Hunting (sort of):
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/Christopher_Morris/PA240437.jpg)
Fishing:
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa409/Christopher_Morris/920lb-tuna-feb-1-2012-6-620x413.jpg)
Wasn't my fish to be honest...but that's ALATA sushi. Too bad the sharks took a hundred pounds or so. (It could not have been a record anyway because the sharks killed it, to be a record you must do the dirty work)
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Heres a 30 & 1/2" African waterbuck.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/waterbuck.jpg)
Even Africa residents go their entire lives without getting a 30. We walked all day looking for this one, dodging Rhinos and Buffalo in the Bushveldt. When I saw him my PH didnt have to say a word, I knew what I was looking at. It was a 200 yrd chipshot but to my horror the animal ran off apparently unharmed. When we inspected where he was at we saw the limb my bullet hit and richochet off of. The fur of the waterbuck is the same exact color as the tree limbs in the bush and I never saw it. While I was sick I lost the animal of a lifetime I was relieved he was OK and not wounded.
After lunch my PH said lets go back to the same area and sure as hell we ended up finding the same buck and this time I dropped him in his tracks with the big .375.
Here is the absolute worst animal you can walk up on in the African bush. The Black Rhino. Luckily we had the wind and just froze for 10 mins until he walked off. Being lucky enough to see a black in the wild means more to me then any animal I ever killed with gun or bow.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/blkrhino.jpg)
Heres the 2nd worst. A white mama with her baby.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/rhino-babe.jpg)
Even if all you hunt with is with a camera everyone should go to Africa once in their lives. Sporthunting is a huge industry there and generates the money for conservation officers and habitat protection. By Law, and everywhere else I hunt, no edible meat can be wasted or left. Its all eaten. Thats why I get a laugh out of the knuckleheads who think we just shoot the animals, pose with them, and then leave them to rot. :lol
Nice pics! One of my best friends is a PH and is in Africa right now, Botswana I believe. What outfit did you use over there?
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Nice pics! One of my best friends is a PH and is in Africa right now, Botswana I believe. What outfit did you use over there?
My last was my best. Rhinoland safaris in northern RSA. My first two was with a guy who is out of business now. He'd organize different leases on tracts of land. I got my Kudu with him, another amazing animal. Nice birds Curv, Ive had 3 bird dogs thru the years.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/kudu.jpg)
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Rich you said you don't waist the meat(which I believe you).
what gets done with? do they give it to the indigenous people?
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Rich you said you don't waist the meat(which I believe you).
what gets done with? do they give it to the indigenous people?
In Africa? It all ends up eaten. At least the ones killed by hunters. Either by the hunters, the outfitters, or sold to provide cheap protein in the form of jerkie they call Biltong. I believe there is a program that gives to the poor as well for tax breaks. While they grow cattle in Africa they cant do it like we do here due to the terrain, diseases, insects, and wild predators. Wild game is an important food source. Unfortunatly poachers, all of them indiginous as you say, are an extreme threat to Africa widlife. That and habitat destruction. While it brings a teary eye to think of these poor people setting snares on game trails to feed their families, causing excruciating pain to the snared animal, the truth is they use the money to buy drugs and booze like they do here. Much of the time they never even go back to check their snares cause they were to drunk when they set them. That or they will skin the animal, or take its horns, and leave the rest for hyena bait. Hunt in Africa and you will spend a lot of time taking snares down.
Most big time Rhino and Elephant poaching operations are controlled by the bigwigs in Govt.'s/Militaries there. Like that Kenyan royal family that outlawed sport hunting and then ran a poaching ring that almost destroyed the wild animal resource of that nation and almost all the elephants. Same thing in Zimbabwe where the military dictator gave the hunting rights to his pals for poaching after he stole the lands of the white residents who had been there for hundreds of years. Now Zim is becoming a wasteland.
Obviously you arent going to eat cats, jackals or the like, or baboons. Nobody eats cats but the $10,000 to $60,000 spent by the hunter to take the cat will ensure there will always be habitat for the species and a healthy population. The only threat to the big cats are the poachers and habitat destruction, which have brought so many species to the brink you cant legally hunt them anyways. Even so sportsmen organizations like SCI are still heavily involved in ensuring their future. Critters like baboons and jackals have to be controlled or they will decimate the young of many species in the breeding season.
What I kill here I clean and cook myself. I still bowhunt deer but my days of killing Elk and Moose 5 miles from camp, and having to carry the meat back, are over. If I did that again I'd have to hire a few strong young backs to do the schlepping.
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In Africa? It all ends up eaten. At least the ones killed by hunters. Either by the hunters, the outfitters, or sold to provide cheap protein in the form of jerkie they call Biltong. I believe there is a program that gives to the poor as well for tax breaks. While they grow cattle in Africa they cant do it like we do here due to the terrain, diseases, insects, and wild predators. Wild game is an important food source. Unfortunatly poachers, all of them indiginous as you say, are an extreme threat to Africa widlife. That and habitat destruction. While it brings a teary eye to think of these poor people setting snares on game trails to feed their families, causing excruciating pain to the snared animal, the truth is they use the money to buy drugs and booze like they do here. Much of the time they never even go back to check their snares cause they were to drunk when they set them. That or they will skin the animal, or take its horns, and leave the rest for hyena bait. Hunt in Africa and you will spend a lot of time taking snares down.
Most big time Rhino and Elephant poaching operations are controlled by the bigwigs in Govt.'s/Militaries there. Like that Kenyan royal family that outlawed sport hunting and then ran a poaching ring that almost destroyed the wild animal resource of that nation and almost all the elephants. Same thing in Zimbabwe where the military dictator gave the hunting rights to his pals for poaching after he stole the lands of the white residents who had been there for hundreds of years. Now Zim is becoming a wasteland.
Obviously you arent going to eat cats, jackals or the like, or baboons. Nobody eats cats but the $10,000 to $60,000 spent by the hunter to take the cat will ensure there will always be habitat for the species and a healthy population. The only threat to the big cats are the poachers and habitat destruction, which have brought so many species to the brink you cant legally hunt them anyways. Even so sportsmen organizations like SCI are still heavily involved in ensuring their future. Critters like baboons and jackals have to be controlled or they will decimate the young of many species in the breeding season.
What I kill here I clean and cook myself. I still bowhunt deer but my days of killing Elk and Moose 5 miles from camp, and having to carry the meat back, are over. If I did that again I'd have to hire a few strong young backs to do the schlepping.
Thanx for reply....ya Poachers :mad:
killin one of those awesome rino's you posted just for its horn....man o man would I love to be put in a room with someone that does that.
a lot like what we did to the Buffalo here in America back in the day....what a waist :(
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Thanx for reply....ya Poachers :mad:
killin one of those awesome rino's you posted just for its horn....man o man would I love to be put in a room with someone that does that.
a lot like what we did to the Buffalo here in America back in the day....what a waist :(
Its worse, at least the Buffalo skins and tounges were used. The Rhino horns are used for medieval medicine that only a moron would believe in. Also rhinos were custom made for extinction. Not only do they have a very long gestation period for the mothers but a Rhino male needs another male of equal age and strength in order to get sexually excited enough to mate. In short you need two rhinos males, of close to equal status, to fight in order for one to get it up.
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Its worse, at least the Buffalo skins and tounges were used. The Rhino horns are used for medieval medicine that only a moron would believe in. Also rhinos were custom made for extinction. Not only do they have a very long gestation period for the mothers but a Rhino male needs another male of equal age and strength in order to get sexually excited enough to mate. In short you need two rhinos males, of close to equal status, to fight in order for one to get it up.
:rofl
I know quite a bit about animals, but I did not know that :rofl
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An even sadder story is that of the Cheetah. Some years ago some Bambi loving genius, who probably hated dead animal pictures, decided it would be a brilliant move to ban the imports of cheetah hides in the USA to protect the animal. Heres the thing tho. The cheetah will kill an animal EVERY day, eat a small portion of fresh meat off the shoulder of its prey, and leave the rest for every other predator. So a few cheetahs on your land will tear up your hoofed species, the kind hunters spend big $$ to hunt, most of all during breeding season when the young have no chance against the cats.
To the Yank or Brit city slicker this is a good thing but to the guy owning or managing the land its a disaster cause the cheetahs are taking food out of their families mouths and bringing nothing back in return cause now hunters CANT/WONT hunt them cause they cant take the trophy back with them. So since the game on land, other then NTL parks, is all owned by the land owner they now shoot the cheetahs like vermin. They cant make money on it and indeed can only lose money, also its a threat to domestic stock. They set traps and kill them on sight. Meawhile the poachers still kill them for their hides and sell them illegally. The Bambi legislation is actually making the animal extinct.
Now IF visiting hunters would be allowed to import the hides those cheetahs would be worth $2,000 to $5,000 apiece to the land owners. They would now hold value and their survival would be protected and encouraged, bringing even more $$ into the one industry that provides habitat and healthy animal population, along with protection.
Haha, The Bambi crowd mostly goes ga-ga over the thought of the noble "indiginous" going out to hunt their game. Well these hunts are even more brutal then the slaughterhouse killings they crap out every morning. I cant show video of that either due to its brutality, "or did you think 2,000+ lb animals go down right off from little bows and arrows per Dances With Wolves"? They both make taking food cleanly with a HP rifle look like a mercy.
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An even sadder story is that of the Cheetah. Some years ago some Bambi loving genius, who probably hated dead animal pictures, decided it would be a brilliant move to ban the imports of cheetah hides in the USA to protect the animal. Heres the thing tho. The cheetah will kill an animal EVERY day, eat a small portion of fresh meat off the shoulder of its prey, and leave the rest for every other predator. So a few cheetahs on your land will tear up your hoofed species, the kind hunters spend big $$ to hunt, most of all during breeding season when the young have no chance against the cats.
To the Yank or Brit city slicker this is a good thing but to the guy owning or managing the land its a disaster cause the cheetahs are taking food out of their families mouths and bringing nothing back in return cause now hunters CANT/WONT hunt them cause they cant take the trophy back with them. So since the game on land, other then NTL parks, is all owned by the land owner they now shoot the cheetahs like vermin. They cant make money on it and indeed can only lose money, also its a threat to domestic stock. They set traps and kill them on sight. Meawhile the poachers still kill them for their hides and sell them illegally. The Bambi legislation is actually making the animal extinct.
Now IF visiting hunters would be allowed to import the hides those cheetahs would be worth $2,000 to $5,000 apiece to the land owners. They would now hold value and their survival would be protected and encouraged, bringing even more $$ into the one industry that provides habitat and healthy animal population, along with protection.
Haha, The Bambi crowd mostly goes ga-ga over the thought of the noble "indiginous" going out to hunt their game. Well these hunts are even more brutal then the slaughterhouse killings they crap out every morning. I cant show video of that either due to its brutality, "or did you think 2,000+ lb animals go down right off from little bows and arrows per Dances With Wolves"? They both make taking food cleanly with a HP rifle look like a mercy.
I love the Cheetah, hell there are not many animals I don't love
actually 3 animals I cant stand...
the maine state bird....The Black fly
mosquito
cockroaches
:D
on a serious note....I have always had a huge issue with trophy hunters (I remember as a little kid wanting to kill people that had tiger skins and stuff like that).....but reading what you are saying is giving me a different perspective on it.....
I can see the truth in what you are saying, it makes perfect sense actually....
you know I understand when a herd/pack gets to big and needs to be culled, I don't like the death of any animal (except for food) but sometimes for the health of the whole species it needs to be done...I see more clearly now.
Thanx for taking the time to explain it.
:salute
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An even sadder story is that of the Cheetah. Some years ago some Bambi loving genius, who probably hated dead animal pictures, decided it would be a brilliant move to ban the imports of cheetah hides in the USA to protect the animal. Heres the thing tho. The cheetah will kill an animal EVERY day, eat a small portion of fresh meat off the shoulder of its prey, and leave the rest for every other predator. So a few cheetahs on your land will tear up your hoofed species, the kind hunters spend big $$ to hunt, most of all during breeding season when the young have no chance against the cats.
To the Yank or Brit city slicker this is a good thing but to the guy owning or managing the land its a disaster cause the cheetahs are taking food out of their families mouths and bringing nothing back in return cause now hunters CANT/WONT hunt them cause they cant take the trophy back with them. So since the game on land, other then NTL parks, is all owned by the land owner they now shoot the cheetahs like vermin. They cant make money on it and indeed can only lose money, also its a threat to domestic stock. They set traps and kill them on sight. Meawhile the poachers still kill them for their hides and sell them illegally. The Bambi legislation is actually making the animal extinct.
Now IF visiting hunters would be allowed to import the hides those cheetahs would be worth $2,000 to $5,000 apiece to the land owners. They would now hold value and their survival would be protected and encouraged, bringing even more $$ into the one industry that provides habitat and healthy animal population, along with protection.
Haha, The Bambi crowd mostly goes ga-ga over the thought of the noble "indiginous" going out to hunt their game. Well these hunts are even more brutal then the slaughterhouse killings they crap out every morning. I cant show video of that either due to its brutality, "or did you think 2,000+ lb animals go down right off from little bows and arrows per Dances With Wolves"? They both make taking food cleanly with a HP rifle look like a mercy.
I notice with your proposed solution you get to shoot the Cheetahs.
I have a better solution: there should be areas where human beings are excluded altogether.
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I have a better solution: there should be areas where human beings are excluded altogether.
Certainly you aren't proposing some form of population control.
Because, as you know, without population control humans will spread across the land like a disease, using the Earth's resources to their benefit.
Maybe we should fire the ovens and rid the Earth of evil hunters.
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I just find the arrogance of the human race rather amusing, not only the assumption that everything is there to serve the human race, or has to justify its existence or behaviour relative to the human race or has some 'dollar value' but the concept that the human race somehow stands over the animal kingdom or is outside or isolated from nature in some way. It does not and it is not.
And for the record I do not object necessarily to hunting for food. It is far more complex than that.
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It is far more complex than that.
Exactly.
EDIT: I gladly pay license fees knowing that a great portion goes toward conservation of game species and eradication of invasive species in my State.
When I was a Boy learning to shoot, my Dad told me something like this: "Make sure your shot is good, because although you are investing in the hunt, your game is giving everything it's got."
I think of that every time I pull the trigger.
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I just find the arrogance of the human race rather amusing, not only the assumption that everything is there to serve the human race, or has to justify its existence or behaviour relative to the human race or has some 'dollar value' but the concept that the human race somehow stands over the animal kingdom or is outside or isolated from nature in some way. It does not and it is not.
And for the record I do not object necessarily to hunting for food. It is far more complex than that.
we are put above animals....that's why we should take care of them and not just destroy them for the fun of it, it is our duty to take care of them.
I do agree with the arrogance of the human race, it is quite funny...don't worry we will be put in our place, in due time.
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we are put above animals....that's why we should take care of them and not just destroy them for the fun of it, it is our duty to take care of them.
At the present rate of social awareness / development that point is approximately 250 years away minimum, a catastrophic event notwithstanding (which is increasingly likely).
I do agree with the arrogance of the human race, it is quite funny...don't worry we will be put in our place, in due time.
Perhaps you'd like this Ink, merely for related entertainment about the nature of nature:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8
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we are put above animals....that's why we should take care of them and not just destroy them for the fun of it, it is our duty to take care of them.
This is a point that both sides of the argument can agree upon.
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I notice with your proposed solution you get to shoot the Cheetahs.
I have a better solution: there should be areas where human beings are excluded altogether.
I suggest you bring your ideas to Africa and see what they say about depopulating their own countries for the good of their wildlife. Maybe they can turn the excess humans in soylent green, tho Im betting they will tell you to rid your own excess populations and leave them to manage their own wildlife. Cheetahs are a renewable resource. Just like that hamburger you ate for lunch. I think legal sport hunting is preferable to species extinction in the wild.
The "kill the humans to make room for the animals" crowd always seem to find reason to exclude themselves from sacrafice. But even some of them have woken to the fact they have made a stupid mistake with the cheetah. The residents of Africa are not to fond of the Western Walt Disney crowd.
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At the present rate of social awareness / development that point is approximately 250 years away minimum, a catastrophic event notwithstanding (which is increasingly likely).
Perhaps you'd like this Ink, merely for related entertainment about the nature of nature:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8
Ive seen that before pretty crazy :O
I seriously don't think this earth has 250 years left, I should say the people of the earth, I think its less then a hundred...maybe 150
the closer we get to the end the quicker and worse its gonna get...
I know once they abolish green cash money I will completely separate myself from this world, I do believe that is gonna happen in my life time.
This is a point that both sides of the argument can agree upon.
:salute
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Ahem .... http://www.gpforums.co.nz/thread/418387/?s=
and one of my favourite shots, 250m .243 to the head of a fallow deer (ahh thats 280 yards I think):
(http://www.gpforums.co.nz/attachment.php?s=&postid=8124153)
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Another point we can agree upon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nucSvl7VXVM
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I suggest you bring your ideas to Africa and see what they say about depopulating their own countries for the good of their wildlife. Maybe they can turn the excess humans in soylent green, tho Im betting they will tell you to rid your own excess populations and leave them to manage their own wildlife. Cheetahs are a renewable resource. Just like that hamburger you ate for lunch. I think legal sport hunting is preferable to species extinction in the wild.
The "kill the humans to make room for the animals" crowd always seem to find reason to exclude themselves from sacrafice. But even some of them have woken to the fact they have made a stupid mistake with the cheetah. The residents of Africa are not to fond of the Western Walt Disney crowd.
Well there you go again, with your black-white thinking and false logical reasoning. You're approaching this from the standpoint of a proud & righteously indignant hunter, which seems to be what your mission is all about. That's a useful and insightful perspective but rather limited and subjective.
In my opinion you do not need to 'manage' nature, or place a dollar value on it or make it a sustainable resource. Those terms only apply when you involve modern humans, with their abstract economy. You propose replacing a system with perfect inherent balance with one that has none, one that will favour one 'product' above another for irrational reasons & motivations, one that will invite marketing and investment. A business approach is a contrived human dogmatic system and it is not self-balancing.
What does need managing is the human race, and this does not imply making people into Solyent Green or depopulating areas but it does imply change, change over the long term and an international approach, not one based on financial trade between economically mismatched cultures.
As Ink says with power comes responsibility. True nature preserves will come eventually.
You've used your 'hamburger you ate for lunch' argument several times now. I know you are doing this to dismiss criticism about your activities by implying hypocrisy, however it does conveniently side step the issue that the human population is now at such a size that it would be impossible to feed it without food production employing an industrial approach. We already know the size of population which can be sustained with traditional hunter-gatherer methods and it just isn't this big. On the one hand you imply you know you have been privileged to go on some of your hunting expeditions and on the other you criticise those who are not, and eat processed food.
So I suggest you stop scoffing at this 'crowd' or that 'crowd' and placing yourself in some noble club, the members of which are the only ones who really understand ;).
Ive seen that before pretty crazy :O
Yes. Fascinating. It's the influencing their behaviour part which boggles my mind. Human Cordyceps anyone?
I seriously don't think this earth has 250 years left, I should say the people of the earth, I think its less then a hundred...maybe 150
the closer we get to the end the quicker and worse its gonna get...
I know once they abolish green cash money I will completely separate myself from this world, I do believe that is gonna happen in my life time.
:salute
I suggested 250 years before social and cultural awareness catches up with the effects of the Industrial Revolution.
I'd put the figure for what you are talking about around 60 years tops. This used to make me very miserable, however I know believe it is an inevitable stage in human development and ultimately a good thing for the human race. A wasteful, tragic, ugly, ignoble, savage and pathetic stage, but there it is.
:salute
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Well there you go again, with your black-white thinking and false logical reasoning. You're approaching this from the standpoint of a proud & righteously indignant hunter, which seems to be what your mission is all about. That's a useful and insightful perspective but rather limited and subjective.
In my opinion you do not need to 'manage' nature, or place a dollar value on it or make it a sustainable resource. Those terms only apply when you involve modern humans, with their abstract economy. You propose replacing a system with perfect inherent balance with one that has none, one that will favour one 'product' above another for irrational reasons & motivations, one that will invite marketing and investment. A business approach is a contrived human dogmatic system and it is not self-balancing.
What does need managing is the human race, and this does not imply making people into Solyent Green or depopulating areas but it does imply change, change over the long term and an international approach, not one based on financial trade between economically mismatched cultures.
As Ink says with power comes responsibility. True nature preserves will come eventually.
You've used your 'hamburger you ate for lunch' argument several times now. I know you are doing this to dismiss criticism about your activities by implying hypocrisy, however it does conveniently side step the issue that the human population is now at such a size that it would be impossible to feed it without food production employing an industrial approach. We already know the size of population which can be sustained with traditional hunter-gatherer methods and it just isn't this big. On the one hand you imply you know you have been privileged to go on some of your hunting expeditions and on the other you criticise those who are not, and eat processed food.
So I suggest you stop scoffing at this 'crowd' or that 'crowd' and placing yourself in some noble club, the members of which are the only ones who really understand ;).
What are you qualifications around the subject of game and animal management?
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What are you qualifications around the subject of game and animal management?
What are yours with anthropology?
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nrshida just stop.
I've invited Ink to camp, he refused.
You are always welcome at camp too. Perhaps if you had a first hand take on the subject your mind would clear up.
EDIT: We're not a bunch of murderous cowards. Most of the guys at camp could put wild kingdom to shame in regards to knowledge of Mother Nature and the species of the northwoods.
Dying is part of life.
EDIT2: We take the business of killing very seriously. Yahoos are culled out quickly.
EDIT3: I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm a firm believer in conservation. Hunting is required in order to keep the balance. It's gone on for millenia, and shouldn't stop.
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I'm not anti hunting as long as it is sustainable and there are preservations where you may not do it. You lot are so entrenched in defending it you can't perceive when the discussion is neither in the pro or anti camp, but addressing something much wider.
Yes I would love to come to your camp one day Bill. Are you also an archer?
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I haven't drawn a bow since I was 16.
I wounded a deer.
I never drew a bow again due to the shame I felt. (And still feel)
Like my Pops told me. "Your game is giving all it's got."
I don't trust my ability with a bow and arrow to make a clean kill.
A rifle or shotgun is a different story.
EDIT: It was hard to look in that Doe's eyes as I cut her. She kicked the crap out of me as my buddy and I dragged her to the truck. Her fawns watched from the treeline. It was a real Bambi moment.
She tasted good though.
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Here's the story:
We were throwing a party at a friend's camp. We had a half barrel of beer, plenty of smoke and a whole harem of fly honeys coming to hang out.
My buddy and I were tasked with bringing meat.
We cruised around until we saw a fat doe standing in a field. I thwacked her with a broadhead low and rear. She ran for about 100 yds and fell down. My partner then put 5 .22 rounds in her head. We thought it was over, and started dragging.
Friggin doe came to life and went ape toejame.
I stuck her in the neck.
Covered my favorite jeans in blood.
It was the lowest point in my life. Very few people knew that story until now.
We quartered her out, took the straps and neck roast. Left the head, guts and hide for the predators.
We cooked her over an open fire, got drunk, stoned and laid.
I'm ashamed of myself to this day.
EDIT: Hunting is a sacred tradition, passed down through generations of my family. I broke that bond the day I did that.
EDIT: Dammit, I'm so ashamed I could cry right now.
EDIT: My opinion means nothing. I have no more to say on this matter.
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I Love these Sat. night posts one reads on Sunday morning. I wonder what the average blood alchohol % is on a Sat. night in Aces High.
Shida I have no idea WTF you are blathering about. "Preserves" are meant for complete animal protection, tho even they dont normally keep the poachers out. lotsa luck with your Communist economic agenda to keep humanity in balance. :lol Maybe we should put the United Nations in charge of everything. :huh
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Gents this has gone a tad off topic.
If you wish to discuss hunting, take it to the O Club.
HiTech
Which is exactly what Rich52 did. Yet, the holier than thou communistic utopia geniuses can't seem to not click on a thread with a title that clearly states what's in it.
Run along now, somewhere there's a kitten that needs saving..oh wait, my dog killed it last night and didn't eat it, I have to go string her up now
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Lol, you fellas are like little tape machines that play the appropriate soundbite when certain buttons get pushed. The nature of conversation is to wander around a starting point of discussion, but discussion seems forbidden here.
So fragile is it that you cannot even bear discussion of the subject?
By all means continue hacking away applying abstract economic laws and processes to ALL OF the natural systems and resources of this planet and letting market forces dictate everything and see where that gets you.
Carry on.
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Lol, you fellas are like little tape machines that play the appropriate soundbite when certain buttons get pushed. The nature of conversation is to wander around a starting point of discussion, but discussion seems forbidden here.
So fragile is it that you cannot even bear discussion of the subject?
By all means continue hacking away applying abstract economic laws and processes to ALL OF the natural systems and resources of this planet and letting market forces dictate everything and see where that gets you.
Carry on.
Odd but that is exactly what I got from your posts.
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Odd but that is exactly what I got from your posts.
I gathered you didn't want to get anything.
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I gathered you didn't want to get anything.
No I just noted that you didn't get anything.
The cheetah for one. Your idea would assure the extinction of the cheetah. They first will kill the young of most every animal in their area. Then they will feast on the adults. Soon they have no food source and they die of starvation..... or leave their area and feed on you and yours.
What is being done at this point is the best we, as a people, have come up with. It is not set in stone. It ebbs and flows as needed to adjust for shortcomings or new knowledge of the animal. It is all based on a science which is not exact.
If you have any ideas which you think may be better, well then pass them through here. When you do though, you should listen to what other folks have to say even if they disagree. Some have different ideas from yours. Some from their ideas on the subject and some from personal experience on the subject.
You should not just wave off anything said that disagrees with what you're saying. If you do it would make you very one sided and lacking in perspective.
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I Love these Sat. night posts one reads on Sunday morning. I wonder what the average blood alchohol % is on a Sat. night in Aces High.
Oh man, you ain't kidding. :rofl
While it was quite an unfortunate incident, perhaps it wasn't the "lowest point in my life".
The kids were sleeping over at friends, so the Wife and I went out for dinner and dancing. By 0600 I was mentally retarded.
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The cheetahs will nver get the chance. The Locals kill them off like vermin cause they are taking food out of THEIR mouths and money away from THEIR kids education. Sure they will survive in NTL parks but they are few, excess animals are culled, and the ones who wander off to seek new territory will be shot like rats. All cause the Walt Disney reject crowd had a bright idea to get a law passed banning legal hide importation by sport hunters. Now if that cheetah is worth $5,000 to that land owner they wont care if it eats its share of gazelles. It now has a dollar value and thus will be protected and encouraged.
But I guess its more important to hang an "endangered" sign on a zoo cage and be politically correct instead of letting scientific wildlife managment work. And it is a pretty exact science and it does work very well. There are rich hunters who will pay $50,000 to take a Bull elephant thats at the end of its life anyways. Now you think that Tribal chief is going to allow poachers to kill that animal and take the money out of the mouth of his people?
Shida with wildlife money talks and BS walks. Unfortunatly you only have the 2nd, and even worse, have absolutly no clue what your talking about.
African Eland. The absolute best tasting animal Ive ever 'et. Domestic or wild. All 2000 lbs worth. What a day that was. The herd was with a huge herd of zebra and we had to stalk all day long to finally get the shot. Must have been 200 to 300 animals 600 lbs or more and they shook the earth when they ran.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/eland.jpg)
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The cheetah for one. Your idea would assure the extinction of the cheetah. They first will kill the young of most every animal in their area. Then they will feast on the adults. Soon they have no food source and they die of starvation..... or leave their area and feed on you and yours.
Only if the preserve wasn't large enough. My suggestion was to allow sufficient room for nature to find its own balance again. There is a reason for instance why the Cheetah typically does not eat all of its kill.
If you have any ideas which you think may be better, well then pass them through here. When you do though, you should listen to what other folks have to say even if they disagree. Some have different ideas from yours. Some from their ideas on the subject and some from personal experience on the subject.
You should not just wave off anything said that disagrees with what you're saying. If you do it would make you very one sided and lacking in perspective.
Yes you are right, some people bring out the worst in me. I must work on that. Not really worth it Shuffler, I really don't think an open or creative discussion is wanted here. But thanks for actually taking the time and energy to explain. I will consider and assimilate what you said.
Shida with wildlife money talks and BS walks. Unfortunatly you only have the 2nd, and even worse, have absolutly no clue what your talking about.
It isn't BS, it just doesn't fit into you rigid frame of reference. You haven't listened to anything which doesn't conform to your subjective or experiential view, just looked for oppotunities to dismiss immediately because you know better.
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Yes you are right, some people bring out the worst in me. I must work on that. Not really worth it Shuffler, I really don't think an open or creative discussion is wanted here. But thanks for actually taking the time and energy to explain. I will consider and assimilate what you said.
Well... on the flip side, your not the only one on these boards that happens to. Myself included of course. :aok
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nrshida just stop.
I've invited Ink to camp, he refused.
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I didn't refuse...it's just not possible, I am sure it would be a blast :aok
I am certainly not worried about getting dirty :D
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I've never had the oppurtunity to travel and hunt big game yet, but im Content with this buck from last November , Non-Typical 17 pointer, 23 inch spread.
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t461/ALFAMEGA51/046.jpg)
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I guess I just don't see the "ethical" argument over hunting... It's neither "right" nor "wrong". It simply "is".
We may like to think we're "above" the rest of the animals, but I don't see that either. We're just more intelligent.
Like it or not, we are part of the ecosystem, not above the ecosystem. As such, anything we do is "natural". Maybe not good, nor bad. Just part of it all.
The idea of a "balance" in nature between predators and prey is simplistic. It doesn't work that way. It's feast or famine. The predators eat the prey, and when the prey is bountiful, so are the predators. When the predators become too bountiful, they wipe out the prey, and so wipe out themselves as well.
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I've never had the oppurtunity to travel and hunt big game yet, but im Content with this buck from last November , Non-Typical 17 pointer, 23 inch spread.
(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t461/ALFAMEGA51/046.jpg)
Nice animal. Ive always shied away from Buck fever. For years I took the first fat doe that came by just for her meat. Then with my 2nd tag I Hunted dominant Bucks but if the bowseason was growing late enough I'd take a lesser Buck or even another doe. Big Buck fever was so bad here in IL. that they were once giving away as many doe tags as you could want for the bow season. It was bow hunters who screwed up the herd cause bow hunters simply refused to take doe's, everyone wanting to be on the front page of a magazine with a big buck, and the deer population/ratio went out of whack and hurt the herd bad. Thats why our Bucks wont come into calls or rattling. There are simply to many doe's to pick from they figure "why bother"? Another bad thing that comes from an out of whack ratio is the dominant Bucks will tend more to only come out at night to chase does, especially if pressured at all. Tho they will make the rounds to checks scrapes during the day.
Now a state like TX they have deer hunting down to a science. Thats why they produce so many fine scoring bucks and exciting hunts cause they manage their doe's right and their Bucks will come into the rattle. Ive had a few bucks come into the rattle, none close enough for my bow, but its exciting cause they come in full of piss and vinegar.
I used to mostly scrape hunt. Either looking for scrapes or setting up my own.