Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Silver on May 08, 2012, 08:13:49 PM

Title: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Silver on May 08, 2012, 08:13:49 PM
Has anyone else noticed that planes like to go into snap spins at any speed with full back stick ?

Seems like P torque was increased. Does anyone know anything ? Or is my flight stick just going wack ?

 :bhead :huh :bhead
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: 4Prop on May 08, 2012, 08:16:24 PM
I do find myself taking more fuel then I used to
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: curry1 on May 08, 2012, 08:43:09 PM
(http://i.minus.com/ibtUGI41rR4P5P.gif)
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: 4Prop on May 08, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
(http://i.minus.com/ibtUGI41rR4P5P.gif)

LOLOLOL  :O  :D :D
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Ruah on May 08, 2012, 08:47:46 PM
omg!!  As someone who has done that at slow speed, in the rain, I can tell you it is quite sickining.  At last in the air there is time!

as fo the modeling, not noticed any.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 08, 2012, 09:29:24 PM
Has anyone else noticed that planes like to go into snap spins at any speed with full back stick ?

Seems like P torque was increased. Does anyone know anything ? Or is my flight stick just going wack ?

 :bhead :huh :bhead

It's just you.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Slash27 on May 08, 2012, 11:50:21 PM
Has anyone else noticed that planes like to go into snap spins at any speed with full back stick ?

Seems like P torque was increased. Does anyone know anything ? Or is my flight stick just going wack ?

 :bhead :huh :bhead
May be a controller issue.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Raphael on May 09, 2012, 12:09:13 AM
(http://i.minus.com/ibtUGI41rR4P5P.gif)
Style!
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: BaldEagl on May 09, 2012, 12:10:49 AM
(http://i.minus.com/ibtUGI41rR4P5P.gif)

I actually did exactly that on an icy winter road one night except I spun twice and stopped on the side of the road right next to and parallel to the guardrail.  It all seemed like slow motion but my heart was racing as I watched the headlights coming toward me not once but twice.

People tell me I'm an aggressive driver.  It's not really that but I'm generally a fast driver in any and all conditions so I've had more than my share of mishaps and close calls.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: lulu on May 09, 2012, 12:17:18 AM
If is it a stick problem, how to sove it?

 :salute
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: MarineUS on May 09, 2012, 12:19:40 AM
re-calibrate?
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: zack1234 on May 09, 2012, 12:36:13 AM
I feel that i am better looking since the last update :)

Then again it could just be me :rofl
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: nrshida on May 09, 2012, 03:02:06 AM
Awesome piece of lane changing. Did he read a sign which said Pie Shop, next exit?   :banana:
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: ALFAMEGA51 on May 09, 2012, 05:24:06 AM
I feel that i am better looking since the last update :)

Then again it could just be me :rofl
  :rofl  :rofl hoooraahhh!!!
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: mensa180 on May 09, 2012, 07:18:20 AM
I actually did exactly that on an icy winter road one night except I spun twice and stopped on the side of the road right next to and parallel to the guardrail.  It all seemed like slow motion but my heart was racing as I watched the headlights coming toward me not once but twice.

People tell me I'm an aggressive driver.  It's not really that but I'm generally a fast driver in any and all conditions so I've had more than my share of mishaps and close calls.

Then you're just a reckless driver.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Silver on May 09, 2012, 07:57:26 AM
May be a controller issue.

Must be. Ugh.
Every time I go full back stick it acts like some gremlin is down there stomping on the rudder pedal.
300kts - full back to pull out - instant flat spin.

Going to try and uninstall the game and all joystick drivers and see if that fixes anything.

Thanks for all the other useless trolling from everyone else.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Max on May 09, 2012, 08:08:01 AM
More info would help us, help you. What stick setup are you using? Hiw old is it? Do you use a powered USB hub in conjunction?
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Lusche on May 09, 2012, 09:02:30 AM
Must be. Ugh.
Every time I go full back stick it acts like some gremlin is down there stomping on the rudder pedal.


There we go. To me that reads like some spiking in the twist axis (rudder), if your joystick has such a thing.
I suggest you go to map controller and check the rudder axis data while pulling back the stick quickly.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: B4Buster on May 09, 2012, 09:03:16 AM
Remember kids: An airplane can stall at any speed.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: B4Buster on May 09, 2012, 09:10:08 AM
(http://i.minus.com/ibtUGI41rR4P5P.gif)

LOLOL...What a save! Ridiculous that people are driving that fast in those conditions, let alone switching lanes at those speeds.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: FLS on May 09, 2012, 09:27:33 AM
Must be. Ugh.
Every time I go full back stick it acts like some gremlin is down there stomping on the rudder pedal.
300kts - full back to pull out - instant flat spin.

Going to try and uninstall the game and all joystick drivers and see if that fixes anything.

Thanks for all the other useless trolling from everyone else.

It's normal to stall with full back stick. It's not torque, you're exceeding your lift limit.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Flavel on May 09, 2012, 09:44:36 AM
I'm curious what aircraft you are flying.

Well I know the low altitude snap roll.

Hence my monikor; 'Crater'

"Replace all divots"
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Silver on May 09, 2012, 09:46:36 AM
Tried it in several different planes with same results.



It's normal to stall with full back stick. It's not torque, you're exceeding your lift limit.

I understand about power on stalls. But this changed recently in how the planes are behaving for me. just noticed it doing it.
It's really strange. No buffet, just an abrupt drop of the left wing and wham I'm in a flat spin as fast as you can blink.

I re-calibrated the controls and checked all axis readings on the Controller Mapping pages and everything looks correct.

I have noticed though that no matter how many times I recalibrate there is always a drift up and to the left without the auto-pilot on. Kind of like the trim controls are screwed up in the code somewhere or something. But game plays and runs fine.

Might be a bad stick. Going to try and uninstall and reinstall the game and all drivers and see what that does.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: The Fugitive on May 09, 2012, 09:50:34 AM
I would check the stick before you to through all that trouble. It is far easier to test the stick than it is to reinstall everything. Odds ate also pretty good it is NOT a software issue either.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Butcher on May 09, 2012, 10:43:35 AM
My 190 won't out turn a P51/Spitfire/47 as the history channel and wikipedia says.

Game IS BROKEN@@!!!  :furious :furious :furious

(its a joke...)
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Shuffler on May 09, 2012, 10:44:22 AM
My 190 won't out turn a P51/Spitfire/47 as the history channel and wikipedia says.

Game IS BROKEN@@!!!  :furious :furious :furious

(its a joke...)

 :rofl
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: icepac on May 09, 2012, 10:49:49 AM
I'm sure he'll find his stick is going to full on for each axis with only about 40% movement.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Noir on May 09, 2012, 10:52:52 AM
pulling the stick at max angle WILL make your plane stall. And pretty badly too.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 09, 2012, 10:56:55 AM
My 190 won't out turn a P51/Spitfire/47 as the history channel and wikipedia says.

Game IS BROKEN@@!!!  :furious :furious :furious

(its a joke...)

 :rofl

ack-ack
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: FLS on May 09, 2012, 11:03:58 AM
But this changed recently in how the planes are behaving for me. just noticed it doing it.

Did you just turn off the stall limiter?

Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Wiley on May 09, 2012, 11:18:46 AM
Coincidental for me that this came up.  Just curious Silver, but did you change anything about how your stick setup is mounted to your desk/whatever?

I recently got around to mounting my HOTAS solidly to my chair, sort of a cheap DIY gaming chair setup.  The first while I flew in it, I discovered if I pulled hard to break turn, I would sometimes go into wicked accelerated stalls out of nowhere, where before I would've just pulled near blackout.

I realized the issue was my previous setup was highly unstable, on a surface with a lot of give to it that effectively was damping my control inputs.  I'd pull hard, the surface the base of my stick was on would give slightly, then go to the deflection I wanted.

I wound up having to relearn my muscle memory, and it still bites me in the backside now and again.

Just throwing out another possibility.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: DOUG on May 09, 2012, 11:58:35 AM
hehehehe < grew up on dirt roads in a teeny town where theres snow, and have done that- but NEVER on the freeway!=) SWEET you can see the wheels SNAP over at just the right time to save it=)
He either is a dune buggy owner, or just got lucky, but I DONT think it was luck.         Ohhhh, thats off topic-
Uuuummmmm its your stick, even the best sticks in the world get dust in places they shouldnt=(
elfy
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Mar on May 09, 2012, 01:08:57 PM
I am curious, why are so many assuming it's a controller problem when he is intentionally slamming the stick all the way back? It's normal for it to snap-spin if you yank it back. You'll have to readjust how you fly, or turn stall limiter back on. I recommend the former, stall limiter actually takes away from your plane's performance.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: hitech on May 09, 2012, 01:10:07 PM
My guess is he turned off Stall Limit
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: nrshida on May 09, 2012, 01:58:28 PM
My guess is he turned off Stall Limit

What the guy in the car?  :banana:


This fellow's obviously got a spiking pot in his stick. It is the most likely cause of what he is describing. I've been through this so many times on the forum I can't go through it again without feeling like an Air Steward. Why doesn't some help thingamajig get written down permanently on the wiki or whatever, to help with common hardware issues? Some of these sticks have very very poor quality potentiometers, I think this problem will always be popping up  :old:


Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: FLS on May 09, 2012, 03:31:06 PM

This fellow's obviously got a spiking pot in his stick. It is the most likely cause of what he is describing.

So your theory is that a spiking potentiometer is causing the stick to give full deflection when he pulls it all the way back? Isn't there a simpler explanation?   :D
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Silver on May 09, 2012, 04:08:13 PM
Stall limiter has always been off. I know how to fly. This is something that has changed recently in the "feel" of the game for me. It just seems like stalls became 500% more abrupt and dramatic suddenly. They induce into spins much much easier and planes seem much more unstable.

If I was in a real plane I would swear the trim tab system was messed up. Tried messing with leaving combat trim on and off doesnt seem to make much difference.

just went and did some flight testing to recheck some stuff. Something definitely not right.
F4U1A ... straight level 300kts .... 50% pull back into a loop. Top of the loop still doing over 200 knts indicated. Only partial back pressure on stick and it stalls and goes into a spin. After going into a spin it becomes almost uncontrollable even after recovery. recovered. straight and level at 200+ knts and its is wallowing around and trying to spin like I am doing 100 knts.


Let me get it all reinstalled tonight and I will report back. thanks for the feed back.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: 68ZooM on May 09, 2012, 04:54:46 PM
Silver run some film of whats going on and post it.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Butcher on May 09, 2012, 05:20:15 PM
Stall limiter has always been off. I know how to fly. This is something that has changed recently in the "feel" of the game for me. It just seems like stalls became 500% more abrupt and dramatic suddenly. They induce into spins much much easier and planes seem much more unstable.

If I was in a real plane I would swear the trim tab system was messed up. Tried messing with leaving combat trim on and off doesnt seem to make much difference.

just went and did some flight testing to recheck some stuff. Something definitely not right.
F4U1A ... straight level 300kts .... 50% pull back into a loop. Top of the loop still doing over 200 knts indicated. Only partial back pressure on stick and it stalls and goes into a spin. After going into a spin it becomes almost uncontrollable even after recovery. recovered. straight and level at 200+ knts and its is wallowing around and trying to spin like I am doing 100 knts.


Let me get it all reinstalled tonight and I will report back. thanks for the feed back.

What kind of joystick do you have? Rudders? This problem is common when your rudder isn't correctly maintained. For example one reason I got rid of the Logitech 3d PRO was because after a Month of use the Rudder kicks hard to the left - meaning even when the stick is leveled - the slightest touch moves it to easily to the left - causing you to "kick the rudder" which generally doesn't matter except when you are in a high speed turn or what not you stall out and flip over.

Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: FLS on May 09, 2012, 05:30:44 PM
Stall limiter has always been off. I know how to fly. This is something that has changed recently in the "feel" of the game for me. It just seems like stalls became 500% more abrupt and dramatic suddenly. They induce into spins much much easier and planes seem much more unstable.

If I was in a real plane I would swear the trim tab system was messed up. Tried messing with leaving combat trim on and off doesnt seem to make much difference.

just went and did some flight testing to recheck some stuff. Something definitely not right.
F4U1A ... straight level 300kts .... 50% pull back into a loop. Top of the loop still doing over 200 knts indicated. Only partial back pressure on stick and it stalls and goes into a spin. After going into a spin it becomes almost uncontrollable even after recovery. recovered. straight and level at 200+ knts and its is wallowing around and trying to spin like I am doing 100 knts.


Let me get it all reinstalled tonight and I will report back. thanks for the feed back.

What you've stated so far sounds like normal behavior. I get that it feels different to you than it was before but it's normal for full back stick to snap roll you.

Did you change your scaling?

What stick do you use?

Do you use a powered USB hub?
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Daddkev on May 09, 2012, 05:35:19 PM
 :huh :huh :huh Just recalibrate.......if still bad, replace Stick!  :huh :huh :huh
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Silver on May 09, 2012, 07:18:44 PM
It's Hotas Wartog stick with Saitek combat rudder pedals. Controllers were expensive, so I'm trying not to throw them in the trash. Or for it to at least be the very last option to try.

I understand what yall are saying about about power on stalls. I've been playing this game for 3+ years and just this week noticed airplanes are not behaving the way they used to. Like I said even just straight and level after a spin event makes the plane wallow around like a pig in the mud even at 200kts indicated.

Only thing has me thinking something might have got screwy is the game locked up and crashed the other day and kind of seems like the trouble started after that.  :headscratch: I did go around and mess with some of the scaling and axis calibration features, but think I set everything back the way it was originally.

I'll post up tomorrow if the reinstall fixes anything.



Silver run some film of whats going on and post it.


If reinstall doesn't work, that will be my next move.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: morfiend on May 09, 2012, 07:47:15 PM
 Silver,

  Could you please post a pic of your scaling settings?  I'm interested to see how you have the elevator setup.

 Since you have a warthog I doubt it's a controller problem as they dont use pots. in the JS. and the JS wont give unwanted rudder inputs.

 BTW,most planes want to climb and roll left if they're accelerating.  I'm betting that you may have had a problem when the game locked up and then when you messed around with the controller you changed something causing you to experience this sudden change in A/C behaviour.

  YMMV.



   :salute
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: hitech on May 09, 2012, 07:47:53 PM
The other thing that can cause problems is if you recently added a USB device and are short on power on the USB hub.

All this can be diagnosed simply by watching the raw numbers with the control mapper open.
Move the stick and see if the rudder input spikes.


HiTech
 
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: colmbo on May 09, 2012, 08:15:56 PM
Has anyone else noticed that planes like to go into snap spins at any speed with full back stick ?

As they should.  Full aft stick is part of the snap roll entry.  With normal C of G full aft stick should produce a stall at any speed.  Don't see an issue.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Silver on May 09, 2012, 08:25:03 PM
ok reinstalling the game from scratch has fixed it. I think something got corrupted when it crashed or I screwed with some setting I should not have. Flys "normal" again now with stall limiter off. Strange. ......... now I gotta remap my joystick buttons, ugh.
Thanks for the ideas and feedback. See you in the skies. :D :D :D


As they should.  Full aft stick is part of the snap roll entry.  With normal C of G full aft stick should produce a stall at any speed.  Don't see an issue.

But was more than that. The stalls and subsequent spins were freakishly quick and unpredictable and recoveries were strange to nonexistent. Something was definitely wacked out.

No worries. Reinstall did the trick
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: nrshida on May 10, 2012, 01:47:21 AM
So your theory is that a spiking potentiometer is causing the stick to give full deflection when he pulls it all the way back? Isn't there a simpler explanation?   :D


No, it was suggested when he mentioned 'sudden onset', this implied a change external to his flying. I think you are all being very uncharitable to less experienced players and should consider your ways  :old:


Glad that you've got it fixed Silver, you're lucky it's not your pots!  LACES OUT!!!   :mad:
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Krusty on May 10, 2012, 01:55:43 AM
I can vouch that sometimes old pots will do that. If wires get pinched or the pot starts going bad, it will skip the mid ranges and "jump" to high. Sometimes I've had rudders that with minimal deflection would spike full and back several times before settling. I've had pedals also that have some funky jittery-ness in them.

I don't mean to say I know what's going on here (sounds like the stick scaling got screwed up), just that I know this can happen from my own direct experience.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: Shuffler on May 10, 2012, 02:09:40 PM
I've found that none of this really matters if you hit a tree.
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: BudHeavy on May 11, 2012, 12:44:08 PM
Thats an awesome vid.  Did somebody say something about the flight models?
Title: Re: Flight dynamics changed ???
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 16, 2012, 01:23:01 AM
LOLOL...What a save! Ridiculous that people are driving that fast in those conditions, let alone switching lanes at those speeds.

Actually the only thing ridiculous there was that he tried to do it in an old Lada with summer tires. With proper winter tires it's a no brainer.