Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zigrat on April 05, 2001, 09:56:00 PM
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I dont like banning ppl
My dad runs a butcher shop. People have tried to cheat him before, or given him toejam and say a piece of meat was tough when it was just that they were a lousy cook. and he has told them not to come back if they act liek amazinhunks. To me, thats fine since them being gone doesn't hurt the rest of his customers.
I will miss both nath bdp and towd. They are both good pilots, and I enjoy fighting good pilots. I think the mute function that hitech hs in the game where he can prevent nath from talking is great, he should have done that.
Taking nath out of the game prevents me from having fun fighting him. I dont like killing newbies. Id rather get killed in an intense fight with an expert than kill 10 lesser pilots. Guess which i learn more about flying from.
Aces high, to me, is about flying. Its not about a feel good lovefest where we all hug each other and smile and sing. When a pilot acts like a handsomehunk on open channel, I just mark him as my next victim, and get double the pleasure out of killing him.
Was nath out of line? Sure he was. Towd, too, kinda harped on the cheating thing on what i think was an unfounded basis. But you know what? Towd would always call my 6, and never hesistated to risk his own virtual neck to save mine. That is more than I can say for some "nice" people in the game (not that there aren't MANY nice ppl who will save my neck too! thx rooks!)
I dont know if any of you ever flew with nath cooperatively, but he was the same way.. never said stupid toejam on roger wilco or anything. Called 6s, flew well. Saved my bellybutton when i got in trouble. Thats what *I* look for in a pilot, and when he talked like an idiot, I just squelched him.
It is of course hitechs game and his right to do what he wants, but I dont applaud it like many of you.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
I think the mute function that hitech hs in the game where he can prevent nath from talking is great, he should have done that.
HTC chose to give Nath a few minutes to cool his heels. Nath chose not to learn from it. <End of comment>
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Me neither Ziggy... but being a self confessed ego-maniac and mouth - I notice that sometimes with some people it just doesn't stop.
At least I stop to go fer a leak, kill some goons, or shag the sheep. I sometimes wondered how some people could whine for so long... guess there is a downside to flat-rate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Was nath out of line? Sure he was. Towd, too,
I am sick of people that act like Towd and Nath have. I think HTC made the right decision as they usually do. If these guys want to act like idoits they can go find another sandbox!!
I have a great time with Aces High and 99% of the guys here are great. I say we don't need the other 1%!!!
BAN THEM FOR LIFE
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Let's cast aside the two specific personnas involved here, because it is wrong to turn this into a "hack on the banned guys" fest. I know that isn't where this started, but as we know on this BBS... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Both of these guys are great sticks, no one doubts that. The question is whether or not they modelled behavior that for whatever reasons HTC decides they will no longer tolerate.
I for one am sorry there is a need to ban anyone, or that anyone quits, or that there is anything that occurs that hurts any sim. Still, stuff happens. Realities will be faced. I can't tell you the number of times I had some character just start verbally attacking me out of the blue for no reason. Sure I can squelch him, but the professional side of me inevitably tries to reason with the person. This often winds up in me blowing the little time I have soothing someone's ego.
I am not asking for a love fest. I am asking to be left alone when I fly. I think it is fair to expect a modicum of respect be afforded to all flyers. If in the heat of the moment I say something stupid I would hope that people online would immediately expect I apologize or shun me. If I can't control myself beyond that point then I am hurting the community and it is time for me to leave for a while (ejection). If that fails, and I fail to heed the warning (you know, that I was booted for a reason), then I must realize that my immediate return to the arena and resuming my misconduct can and should be construed as behavior that is in open defiance of the authority present. In any situation I can think of this will result in one final solution- said person will be removed permanently from the environment.
Is this a happy day? Depends on what side of the fence you sit. If you want to look at it from the talent perspective, it is indeed a very sad day. My years of coaching have shown me that you sometimes lose your most talented people in order to have a great team. It also seems to me that, with the influx of AW people (and who knows, with iEN getting delisted quite possibly several WB's flyers as well) now is as good a time as any to get things under control here community-wise. I can tell you this for sure; had AH been like it is now when I first joined the beta I would never have stayed even one month.
It isn't all Nath's or Towd's fault, nor should it be presented that way. To be totally fair you have to admit they did have their chances and it seems made their own choices. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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see my 2 other post, Zigrat i share the same feelings. So? You come flying now? I will not stay rook for long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Zigrat,
The best example/analogy I can give you is the one that was given to me years ago...
Kid throws a rock at your window, breaking it. You ask the kid not to throw rocks at your windows and go back inside thinking he has learned his lesson. Again, he throws a rock and breaks a window. Repeat this story as many times as it takes to sink in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You can ASK people to follow the rules, and you can even try to rub it into them in the form of temporary bannings. But if that doesn't kick the grey matter between their ears to work, what can you do?
Easy, you have to remind the user that there are consequences for their actions. Being a customer does not absolve them of being held to the terms of the user agreement. Period.
Sorry Zig, I agree with you, but there comes a time when a line is drawn in the sand, and when its crossed repeatedly, something has to happen.
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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I liked them both , still do, just because some don't like em won't sway my feelings.
NUTTZ
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OMG! No! Can some toss me a freaking bone here? Why was Nath banned! I knew Towd was, but why on earth NATH!
I know Nath liked to talk crap on the radio, and he and I were great rivals. I looked forward to shooting him down. He was a great great pilot, even though we would taunt each other, I highly respected his skills. This is sick. I feel woozy. Someone tell me what happened to Nath and why!
OK I spoke too soon. I now know, I read the other post. Too bad. Nath-BDP if you do happen to sign back on with a different credit card, give me a private message and let me know your new nick so I can continue to shoot you down. <S>
fscott
[This message has been edited by fscott (edited 04-05-2001).]
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I hate to see anyone leave the game - no matter the reason.
HiTech and Pyro are stand up guys and did what they felt was best for their business, I have no problem with their actions.
If Towd or Nath were to apologize for their actions I'll bet HTC would let them return.
Everyone makes mistakes in life - it takes a real man to acknowledge them and make matters right.
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Show no respect, get no respect... I dont care how damn good a pilot is!
Dog out............
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Speaking as a squad mate, I can only say that Nath's flying skills were better than mine and that he'd ALWAYS call 6's and clear you, even if it put himself in danger. He's a very aggressive and competitive pilot, and it manifests itself in different ways.
I wasn't there when the incident occurred and will not pass judgement until I see a film or screen shots of the text buffer. It does seem very unlike nath to go against the HTC crew, more so since after the CV imperial Star destroyer (and who has not complained about fleet ack?), we had a little discussion about it that basically ended with me saying "don't fight the HTC crew - you'll lose, every time".
So with that in mind something must have irritated him very much indeed, if what I hear is true. I am wondering what this could be.
Right now I'm bewildered and cannot really understand the reactions from people - he's a good stick, fun to fly with and against (done both) and yes, argumentative, but that comes from being highly competitive. Something real fighter pilots are, I hear. But I will not defend or attack this behaviour until I know what's going on. This just seems totally out of character for Nath.
If someone has a film or had film running during this incident, I'd very much like to see it. Send it to stclaus@mail1.stofanet.dk
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
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Santa, ICQ me.
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What Zig said. It's a sad day when folks are cheering the banning of another player. Don't worry, soon there will be plenty of room for you all to wave your pom-poms unfettered.
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Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Good thing too, them pompom's is durn heavy wrapped in chains.
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Squelch is all the power I need to tune somebody out.
I flew once with Nath, and my only experiance with him was ok.
Yea he could run off verbally,,I just squelch him if it bothered me.
I hope he and HT work it out and Nath comes back.
sax
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A fool is the man who trys for the better before securing the best.
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I seem to recall Hitec asking Nath to cool it the night before. Pity to see anyone banned, but only fool will tease a dog until it bites him.
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<Laugh>
So we are supposed to feel bad that Nath got himself banned? Oh please, he did this to himself.
Let me guess, OJ is innoncent too? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was there, perhaps that's why my feelings in this matter are what they are. Sorry man, the guy got what he deserved. I'm not out to change anyones mind on the matter but just state the guy went above and beyond reasonable behavior and was busted. If you got a problem with that, well, too bad (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Re-read the user agreement, call Johnny Cochran and go find a loophole (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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Didn't know nath was 86'ed too , I think this is a new HT syndrome " I am god , this is my game " Syndrome . Watch your 6 guys , you may be next. Didn't this happen to the jews once ?
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jesus paintmaw that was bellybutton stupid a comment as any nath ever said
comparing the holocaust to people getting booted from a game? sick (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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BD5Pilot:
From your post, I get the distinct feeling of schadefrau - being happy about the mishaps of others.
Whatever rocks your boat, I guess.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
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What Zigrat said, and a bit more.
We are serious customers paying monthly a considerable amount of money (even for months we dont play a single hour). LePaul, in your example, was that marksman stone-firing child paying for the entire house (not only the windows) each month?
We are not a bunch of drunk friends messing up somebody else house. And we, in general, are not inmature childs.
I think the process to ban customers should be considerabily more serious than just some warning messages in the ch 1 and then executing the ban. I think that because I'm also used to deal with customer (automation software provider) and just cant imagine myself acting that way with them, and believe ne, I've been "internally" wanting to nuke them more than twice.
And a second point. HT, wisely, has given us a weapon to fight people flooding ch 1 with no desirable messages: squelch command.
And my last point. If some customer is caught attacking furiously another one. He should be adviced, emailed, notified and then, if that kind of conduct persists, banned. But if a customer is just protesting for some game feature in the general ch, that is, IMO, perfectly legal. I cant talk for the rest of you, but I'll never be offended is someone keep sending messages about the BS that the roll rate of 109 is compared to 190 over'n over (for example).
All the previous comments apply only to customers, not to free trial period players.
Well as all of you can see, my english capabilities are getting degraded at an alarming rate (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Zigshit , what is your problem ?? what I ment was a few guys do things or say things someone doesn't like so they are disposed of . Some people in here just look for a reason to jump down a guys throat . YES YOU ZIGRAT
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I think it's taken HTC too long to crack down. There used to be a much more pleasant atmosphere on the boards, and in the arena, with some give and take from HTC. Why? Because players showed common courtesy and respect that are expected when you are interacting with real people. For the last nine months or so I have seen a great increase in vulgar and angry complaining about things, with personal references to the programmers, and a general lack of respect for others.
It's pretty hard for HTC to have a dialogue with us when people don't show them the common respect you would show a complete stranger on the street. Some of the stuff I have read directed at them, if somebody said it to me to my face, I'd probably slug them. That's just no way to run a business, to let that kind of crap go on in your shop. People, if a computer game is driving you to behave in that manner, you need to find another hobby. PERIOD.
Now I don't know what Nath said to get ejected. So I am no way endorsing this particular ejection. I was not there and I have absolutely no idea what transpired. And since Nath is probably not able to defend himself on this board, I don't think any criticism of his character is fair play.
However I do support HTC in attempting to remove people from the community who detract from it. It is a real problem and I know for a fact that it has cost them customers, and hampered their relationship with those customers who treat other players like human beings.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-06-2001).]
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Paintmaw did you actually READ Zigrat's post (only comment, not been there, not knowing anything)
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One thing is to say that AH has lots of problems,bugs or whatever. Fleet acks, Buffs megaflux-nonblockedbyairframe-autoaiming guns and laser-guided bombs, UFO niks, Lazer CHogs, etc. All that is in Aces high and detracts from realism and joy for some (most) of us. Other thing is to call HTC names. The first is (IMO) perfectly allowable, the second is not.
WHile I say that AH is way way under what it could be, and sometimes I may seem slamming the game (while I'm not), I've always kept both the respect and the courtesy with HTC. I'm sure you will never ever see me BSing HT in the Main arena or Pyro in the forums, or the inverse. And of course Yankee, Ronni, Superfly and NAtedog either.
I've been one of the most, if not the most, vocal member of Aces High regarding what I think are the "black spots" of the game. I've insisted a lot on many things one and twice and thousand times. I know I got a bit too insistent, but I always kept two things on mind
1-My love for AH
2-My full respect for the crew who created it.
I had a time where I reacted very violently online to anything I didnt like. I've been the protagonist of one of the biggest personal BSing in aces high (Renfield-vs-RAM). I'm not proud of either two, but everything serves to learn. And I bet that since back in november you haven't seen me squeaking (too much (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) online. As much as some people can laugh, the handle change was very very good for me, because it teached me to keep the mouth shut online. Not on the forums, though.
Many of you have noticed I've been quite silent in the forums lately. I have my reasons (wich Pyro knows aswell (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)). But bassically it turns down into two reasons
1-It simply is not worth for me to try to get AH better when so much people want it to stay as it is right now
2-I'm bored of being flamed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
Maybe someday I'll stop being tired of the flames and I think its worth that I try to fight for what I think would be better.
Whatever the course of action is, I will always keep a respectful attitude towards HTC.
MANDOBLE, regarding your example of the kid who pays the cristal and the house, if the house owner reserves the right to stop the service AT ANY MOMENT and without FURTHER NOTIFICATION, then the kid should better stop throwing stones at the first warning. Because he can be booted at any moment.
If you dont know what am I referring to, re-read the contract you agree with as you sign up.
I liked Towd. I didnt like NathBDP. I am sorry to see both banned, as it means less quality in the MA. But they both pushed the limits too much, and HTC did exerted the right they had reserved to exert (Spelling) on the contract they include on the signup.
THat doesnt mean I share what HTC has done. I simply say that they had the right to do it, and so noone of us,including the banned people, can complain.
Nath and towd, if you are reading this, do this. Email HTC and get the situation sorted out. Then come with different handles, keep #1 squelched, or in a box wich you can't select (I personally set it up into the #5 box as I dont use in-built RW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)). Fly on your own for a while, fly EVERYTHING you feel like flying and get fun.
DOnt fly for a record not for points. DOnt restrain your flying to a plane type (when I was flying as Ametz I flew everything but the Chog). Switch sides as will. Get fun. If you have something to say, say it so on the forums. But not online.
Took me almost 10 months to realize that as RAM I was not going to learn to behave online. Now, with the casual annoyement and #1 message, I have learnt it more or less and I am trying to get my handle back (hehe hey Ronni, Yankee I've sent 3 emails asking if it can be done for no answer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)).
Both of you can do it too. Just try.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-06-2001).]
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Mishaps?
You make this sound like an accident... a slip.
Uhn-uh. Their behavior was not only hostile, juvenile and tedious... It was *embarrassing*. Mishap it most definitely was not. And it was *consistently* embarrassing. To us *all* as AH flyers. To attempt to downplay this on account of their "skill" is to completely miss the boat.
Seeing these new folks come in and just wondering what goes through their minds upon witnessing on a nightly basis the utter crap being spewed forth in the arena...
In the back of my mind I was screaming "No no no - our community is not really like this(!) - there are alot of fantastic guys here - what you are seeing is an aberration!!". But no. The sad thing is, it aint...
Our community really *IS* like this. It aint an aberration... It is there, constantly, every single time you log in, and it drowns out the decency of the majority of flyers. They are, as is to be expected, a hell of a lot louder than the good that happens in the MA.
And so it goes. And the stupid thing is, as is human nature, that it seems to be so much more easy to jump on that sort of lame bellybutton hostile bandwagon than it is to give a simple <S>.
Not unlike this BBS. For some reason, when ya read a post, it's just... I dunno... it's almost instinctual (because it's so damn easy) to attack someone else's idea than it is to support it. "Aha! He's wrong and I'm gonna show him how wrong he is... and best of all I'm gonna come off like the brilliant Pulitzer Prize winning wannabe stud I am in doing it".
Make no mistake - it's a cop out. The path of least resistance. "I disagree" is so much easier to say. So don't think you are being clever or playing the Devil's advocate.... Not even close. Saying, in essence, "that sucks" is a no brainer. Child's play.
So what happened in the MA was... You'd get these (yes...) punks... You get these punks fillin' every third line of yer buffer fulla ludicrous bile... and the result? You'd have guys (and I *know* you've experienced this)... You get guys on only their 2nd day of flying, *miming* these trash talking dipshits. And they'd make absolutely no sense! You shoot their tail section clean off, for example... unmistakable rear aspect... and they accuse you of being a no skilled dweeb HO'er.
Now... Where could they have possibly gotten that idea from? Worse even - why, with only a day or two under their belts here, would they feel comfortable in saying something like this to us?
You needn't have to look far. It's the norm. It is merely "what is done" here. The way of the MA.
roadkill.
It is total poison. And with every new person who comes into the MA, and who gets a face full of this, we allow this to basically breed. Passed down from a few loud mouthed amazinhunks to a few more individuals receptive enough to think this is acceptable.
And on it goes.
Until, as is so evident, that our sim is so thoroughly overrun by people bent on making our hobby a something that we no longer look forward to as much.
It's a complete joke.
Because... It's unnecessary.
And because... why?! Why do we let this happen? Why is it ok to report someone doing an off-map raid, while we keep our mouths shut when someone is being a total diddlying idiot and wrecking our experience? In a very real sense, it is US who are allowing this to happen.
Squelch? Squelch channel one? What an absolutley rediculous proposition! Why should we cut ourselves off from 2/3 of eachother, 99% of us decent folks, onnacounta some pimply faced whiny little punk who's taken the radio hostage with his imbecile remarks? diddly that. No way.
Most of you reading this... right now... are old sticks. You know what's up. You know better. Now sure, we can relegate this job to an over-worked 6 person company and have this total toejam storm when they finally *do* act... or we can do it for ourselves. We can establish and maintain the type of environment that we choose to fly in.
*WE* are the community and it is up to *US* to set the standards by which we would like to have people treated here. Simply saying "hey man that aint cool" goes a long way. It just does.
With towd... and with Nath... it really didn't need to come to this. Honestly... It was *us* who allowed this to happen.
So come on... don't be such pushovers. Don't accept this stuff as an unavoidable fact of life. If we want a better environment, it is up to us to speak up and set an example in this community by which we can feel both comfortable in and proud of belonging to.
It is our silent acceptance that allows this BS to fester.
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I´ll back zigrat up all the way,,,PAINtMAW!!!
THAT!! was a sick comparison
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Originally posted by Nash:
With towd... and with Nath... it really didn't need to come to this. Honestly... It was *us* who allowed this to happen.
Nash, from personal experience I can tell you. Some VERY RESPECTED members of this community like to MAKE IT HAPPEN by starting the fires they know that will burn well.
Sorry but while most of you here, guys, are real nice people, there is a quite vast percentage who are simply lame m*********rs who have fun with passionate people who can't avoid to bite their baits. And when they do it, then they come with the flametrhower to toast them.
to each one his responsability.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-06-2001).]
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What a load of BS.......
Nothin wrong with fleet ack, f4us, N1K2 or any other part of AH that i have seen. Most whine because something killed them that wasnt in there control.
Ive flow and fought in fleet ack, i kill f4us, N1K2s and any other damn plane in the arena. The only whiners are the large egos that cant stand dying. Get a grip, please.
if 300 of us have no problems with ack and plane, i wonder why 4 or 5 of you do? Deflate your ego and fly the damn plane.
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Originally posted by Wardog:
if 300 of us have no problems with ack and plane, i wonder why 4 or 5 of you do? Deflate your ego and fly the damn plane.
I have my opinion. You have yours. I give my opinion. You gave yours.
While I agree that most of the times I have not put the things in the way they should be put (sometimes because language barrier ,most times not), it is also true that many people simply can't stand a different opinion.
You think that 5' AA in the fleet is OK when it predicts a change of course of 90º with 45 seconds of antelation (this is what the CV flaks do now). You think that the B17 ball turret should fire to the high 12 o clock (as it does now). You think that the 35K laser bomb accuracy is OK as it is. You say that the Hispanos are correctly modelled, that the oswtinds top armor (lack thereof) is perfectly modelled, that the N1K2's FM is perfectly adjusted.
Fine. I respect your view. But now dont roadkill my free right to give my opinion. If you think that I'm a whiner because I think all that is wrong and I say it in the forums -some times in a passionate way, others not-, go and re-read your post and think what are you.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-06-2001).]
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Sorry but while most of you here, guys, are real nice people, there is a quite vast percentage who are simply lame m*********rs who have fun with passionate people who can't avoid to bite their baits. And when they do it, then they come with the flametrhower to toast them.
So... Which one is the stupid one, one who sets the bait or one that bites it time after time knowing it is a bait?
Note about general situation here... Being a good pilot is no reason not to ban anyone. If they cannot behave like adults and respect others, then they only get what they ask for. They get no sympathy at all from me.
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jochen When I am king you will be first against the wall
Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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Ram.... dude...
I come here to fly... not get baited. You blame the guys who chomp down on that bait?
No way man..
shrecking quit the baiting. It aint what we signed up for. I don't need to listen to guys inciting a fight on a radio channel that they couldn't win in the air. I don't need guys causing humiliation *after* they've beat them in the air.
Ram, you gotta know the difference.
Placing the blame on the people who feel compelled to respond likewise to these dicks is blame misplaced.
It is, after all, what these "baiters" are looking for. Screw that noise. Quit the baiting, shut the diddly up and fly.
This is a flight sim.
You drama queens need to go back outside to yer treehouses where this kinda stuff makes more sense.
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I dont deny nor rest a single part of responsability I -or any of the vocal people in aces high- may have on flamewars, or anything of that kind. I accept that many times I've behaved like a jerk, both online and on the forums. Many others times not, but for the times I've done it intentionally, I assume full responsability, and that others may have baited me doesnt steal me a single piece of that responsability.
I simply say there is much more responsability for the flamewars than the one wich must be assumed by the vocal guys, and quite widely extended in this community, than what most of you want to accept.
BTW I am talking mostly of the Forum flamewars now, not the attitude online. I think that what it can be said here shouldnt be online because here we are to discuss things while online we are to fly and fight.
[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-06-2001).]
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RAM, I think, sincerely, that should have been easy to understand. The child breaking stones but paying for the house deserves a different response than the child that simply breaks windows for nothing.
All I'm asking for is a bit more discrection to ban customers, and a bit more serious process to do it. I didn't read what Nath was throwing at ch.1. But I read the HT response as something like: Nath, you've learn nothing, and Nath, see ya. And then a serie of player messages about the expulsion. Perhaps some emails warning about a non desirable conduct previous to the expulsion, perhaps an extense private conversation previous to click the red button...
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i read AGW and WWIIOL boards and there seems to be a consensus that AH community is mean, hostile and rude in general.
Maybe with removal of those who get a kick out of pissing people off, maybe now we will lose that reputation.
I've flown with Nath before, and have soft spot for a guy, he makes me laugh, but i've seen him cross the line before and not relent. We all did. Let's ask ourselves how many new players on 2 weeks trial didn't continue with AH because they found channel 1 to be overwhelimgly mean and rude ?
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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Nash, count me as one in your corner. Not much else to say, you pretty much said it all, so I won't bore everyone by repeating it.
<S>
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BTW I am talking mostly of the Forum flamewars now, not the attitude online. I think that what it can be said here shouldn't be online because here we are to discuss things while online we are to fly and fight.
I guess.....
But erhm... that's not to say that this kinda BS doesn't reflect horribly on HTC by any prospective flyer takin' a gander at our BBS here... Baiters bait and biters bite. I don't think it's particularly cool for the baiters to bait, and I don't think it's quite so savvy of the biters to bite...but so be it. It's here, on the BBS...
But yer now making a distinction... The BBS vs Online. Where it matters.
Tell me RAM... Do you think it's ok for guys like towd to trash talk every single person he finds himself dyin' to?
Those new guys.... the guys who say "Oh my god! I got my first AH kill!" A perty neat experience... we've all been there. Now what if his 1st kill was towd. Man, the rotten misfortune that would be. You would be called a warpin' hackin' dweeb flyin' cheat.
Welcome to Aces High.
And a new guy... totally green... Gets gunned down by Nath. "You squeak you were owned, you handsomehunk"
Welcome to Aces High.
pfft..
Anyone who would defend this type of toejam (like "oooh noo.... he gave me 6 calls alla time he was a good guy, trust me")... is... uhm...blind.
Spare me alla the rest of it cuz it don't matter.
Those guys were *bad* for our sim. They were *embarrassing* us as Aces High flyers. Their behavior was intolerable, their conduct indefensible, and the outcome almost so blatently a natural result as to probably cause a certain degree of astonishment by them, themselves, that this didn't happen sooner than it did.
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howdy all
where should the limits be,zigrat?
i agree totally that this environment should be a free expression area,but should there be no rules at all?
we live in a supposed " free society "and still obey to zillions of rules imposed on us through legacy or tradition.We call it democracy.
In law we have strict guidelines and rules.
We actually form these law's through our own
behaviour.
This BBS looks to me more like the Far West.
We got the gunslingers,the lawmakers,the hores,the nice innocent farmers etc
But there must be a limit to what can be said and done IMHO.Or should this be a test area for total anarchy?
If your best friend kills a innocent pedestrian with his car while he is drunk ,should
he just walk cuz he's a real nice guy and
goes to church every Sunday?
Sorry my english is pretty toejamty i havent gotten involded in any other discussions because i fear of getting misunderstood and
seeing so well written posts isnt too encouraging.Feels like a 5 year old throwing in comments at a scientist convention (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really like AH a lot,it has it's faults but way more positive aspects than negative.
And the game has had a incredible evolution since the first release.Nothing is perfect and it will never be,but there are ways to critisize stuff and there are ways how to behave.
<S>
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Mand, it doesn't work that way.
HTC has to ensure their game world remains a marketable product. If there are folks who are doing things that may prevent it from being as marketable, they MUST remove them. Just because we pay for the product doesn't give any one of us the right to damage that product and hurt what the rest of us are getting for our money. This is HTC's business, and if they feel anyone is doing things which will hurt that business, it is their right to remove them. Just because you pay for the product doesn't give you the right to injure it. If you pay admission to Disney World, and then run around in the park yelling about how the rides suck and the developers modelled space mountain all wrong, you think you would be in the park very long? Security would haul your butt out into the parking lot in seconds. Why should it be any different in a game world? It shouldn't, it isn't.
What these folks were like as pilots or even as people is completely irrelevant. They were doing things that HTC felt was bad for their business and hurtful to their product. They were warned to stop repeatedly, and they did not. If they got toejamcanned, it's thier own damn fault and nobody elses. HTC needs to maintain the viability of thier product, and if you do something that threatens that, you will be removed. A shame that it took an online game to show these guys that you are ultimately responsible for your own actions, and there are consequences to what you say and do.
I'm glad to see that HTC is actively involved with their product, and taking whatever steps are necessary to keep it viable. No matter how much crap they may take for doing what needs to be done. I would be far more concerned about Aces High if HTC was not involved or didn't take the steps necessary to keep it on track. Lucky for us, we have the most involved and responsive developers I've ever heard of.
<S> HTC
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 04-06-2001).]
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St Santa, I think we have a freudian slip here...
You said:
"I get the distinct feeling of schadefrau - being happy about the mishaps of others."
The correct word, unexistant in other languages, is "Schadenfreude", litterally "Damage pleasure"
"Schadefrau", on the other hand, litterally means "damaged woman", hehe...
Cheers
figaro
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This topic sure brought out into the light the some of warts and over all ugliness some folks have inside them. I've lost some respect, or in one or two cases what little remained, for a handlful of folks who actually think what HT or Pyro have did was not in thier, and this communites, best interest.
At the same time the discussion here has reinforced my respect for some and I figuring that the quailty of the community is now on the upswing.
Now if Ram would just leave. And take Paintmaw with him.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
If there are folks who are doing things that may prevent it from being as marketable, they MUST remove them
Agree with you Leph, but I was talking about the way to remove them. As you know, there are ways and ways. Perhaps it is my fault cause being used to a very different kind of relations between providers and custormers.
[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 04-06-2001).]
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Personally, I got along with both towd & Nath. However, their behavior has been difficult to deal with at times. That both were eventually banned is not very surprising.
Remember, businesses generally reserve the right to refuse service to any customer. That HTC exercised this right on the two players in question was understandable.
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leonid, Kompol
5 GvIAP VVS-KA, Knights (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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Man!! I can't believe I'm saying this but...I agree with Nash. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Put me in the same corner with Nash & Apache!
Well said on both posts Nash!
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I think its funny as hell zig. I just hope you dont feel a need to act as nath and towds replacement. I have noticed your inclination to be a real dork at times. Great *pilot* though...hehe
Saaaaaa-lute!
Y
PS great post nash. Totally astute!
[This message has been edited by Yeager (edited 04-06-2001).]
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Originally posted by StSanta:
BD5Pilot:
From your post, I get the distinct feeling of schadefrau - being happy about the mishaps of others.
Whatever rocks your boat, I guess.
StSanta (and all)
You are welcome to think what you like about me, but you also do not *know* me. So if you are going to judge me on one posting, you are not getting the entire picture.
I've been on both ends of the customer/software provider spectrum. I've been a user, and I also work for a software firm and head up the tech support department. I understand frustrated customers and I also understand that some customers will get way out of hand. While the software we make isnt an on-line game (its navigational software for boats), we do our best to take care of our users and based on knowing how *I* like to be treated, that is how I treat my users.
With that said, if a customer is going to stand in the midst of 100 of my users and be nothing but a big mouthed menace, you have to do something. You guys are so quick to defend Nath, its rather pathetic. Yet in the same message board and threads earlier, you guys are complaining you are weary of the mouthing off going on in channel 1.
You can't have it both ways.
What Nath did is quite indefensible, and if you guys get your jollies flaming me, so be it. Again, if you werent there to see it, you missed a lot. Nath showed his true colors to me and everyone on, and you can only kick the dog so many times.
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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Zig,
I agree it's sad to see good pilots go, NathBDP was one of the best and I enjoyed getting killed by him many times. And these guys in a way earned the right to mouth off because they were good, while quite a lot of other people mouth off even though they suck. But you are saying that because they are good pilots they shouldn't be banned? What if we were talking about crappy pilots, would it be OK to ban them then? If a lousy kill-stealing Niki-driving no-6-calling sub-1-K/D pilot was banned for abusing CH1, would that be OK? Or what if a great pilot was constantly calling your mother every vile name in the book over CH1? Should HT not ban him? The fact is, CH1 can be abused, this is a commercial game and there is no unlimited right to say whatever you want.
My impression from hearing HT talk about this online is that he hates doing it, but the atmosphere on CH1 is getting out of control. Many new people are joining the game and are under the impression that being obnoxious on CH1 is the way to go, so HTC wants to try to clean things up. Squelching is really an afterthought, because a new player only knows who to squelch after he's been exposed to the CH1 dribble for quite a while, and the act of squelching because of the content of the text buffer is itself a sign that things are getting out of hand. I am pretty thick skinned and I only squelch CH1 when there's too much talk and the text buffer is filling up, never because of what's being said. That's the way it should be, IMHO, but it seems that more and more people are squelching because of what's being said. HT as creator of this game has the unpleasant duty of deciding where to draw the line.
I too wish NathBDP and TOWD were still flying, but I understand that HTC has to do what it thinks it must to maintain a decent playing atmosphere for its customers. You can disagree with HTC's reasoning, but the fact that the players in question were good is not relevant.
ra
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This is no roadkill ego trip by HT Paintmaw its HTC policing their service, their business. Its up to them to ensure that the MA is a place that players can play their sim without having to listen to other users tirades on the global channel, just the same as a guy in a pub being asked to leave if he stands on a chair in the middle of the bar and insults the landlord. If that guy then apologised to the landlord the next day then he would be allowed to frequent that bar again, I'm sure if Nath or Towd apologised then HTC would allow them back in.
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Kieran, Funked, Nash, Ra have pretty much covered the bases for me. I'll stand with them on this issue.
Community.
Not skill at manipulating pixels on a computer screen, not friendship, not six calls, not whether this or that feature of the game is as you prefer it.
The issue is "was the person detrimental to the community as a whole".
Westy, I also find this thread illuminating in much the same way. Self or community?
Both of these guys know how to get a new IP and new credit card and rejoin the community. The question is how will they act the second time around.
I'd also wager that THEY could work it out with HTC, if they really wanted to.
OUT.
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Originally posted by Westy:
Now if Ram would just leave. And take Paintmaw with him.
-Westy
I will bite my tongue on this one, westy. On this one. You are more damaging for this community that Paintmaw, me ,TOWD, or even Macboy. I dont know anyone who has left because attitudes like Naths' -tho I'm sure there have been examples- but I know POSITIVELY that there have been many guys who have left because attitudes like yours.
Now cut it and forget about me because I have already to name you in this or the other thread, and you alredy have done twice in the two threads when I had nothing to do with you.
(to all the rest, this is what I mean when I talk about the flame starter and the flamethrower "respected guy")
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Originally posted by Westy:
This topic sure brought out into the light the some of warts and over all ugliness some folks have inside them.
-Westy
Westy I really agree with you, strange isn't it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
In other topic you wrote:
You, Glunz, are also and bellybutton and idiot.
-Westy
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Nash said:
And a new guy... totally green... Gets gunned down by Nath. "You squeak you were owned, you handsomehunk"
Welcome to Aces High.
OH MY GOD i almost shat my pants when I read that. That is SO nath I almost miss him when I read it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Good one Nash, if i take that S and put a T..
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Fine with me. I'm beyond being tired with the crap posted by like of you Ram, Staga and the Hristo's. It's not a language barrier or issue as I really think you folks believe the crap that you few write. I faile to see how any of you think your'e right.
This ubb is becoming septic with 'poepl' such as yourselves. The pathetic whines about who's guns are better than anothers or how there is an Allied conspricy by HTC by thier neutering the LW aricraft FM's are bad enough but then to listen to the support you jack-asses give to anarchy and social dysfunction is more than I want to deal with any more.
I'm removing myself from these boards voluntarily to see if that will help but I already feel I know the answer. As long as the simple selfe ctnered and blind ignorant can trumble through here and post garbage such as Hristo, Ram or several others are able to then this place will continue to slide into the gutter.
-Westy
OUT!
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Hello guys... <S>
For obvious reasons, I don't pass personal comment here anymore while being a guest in someone else's house, but on this issue I feel compelled to say that it is positive for the entire flight simulation community, to see the HTC crew taking an initiative to set common sense adult "community" standards as to appropriate on-line behavior.
As usual, lots of good people on here like Kieran, Funked, Nash, Apache, Lephturn, Ra, Toad etc, expressing what I'm sure most feel should be obvious to everyone. For the most part, this is an excellent community with a terrific product, which should not be permitted to be diminished by the actions of the few.
We have three golden rules about customer interaction and managing a sense of community. I think this issue is covered by number 3.
3. Treat everyone like adults and in-return, expect a mature and adult oriented approach to communicating with us ,as well as other members of this community. In fairness to the majority who wish to communicate in this kind of environment, we will remove any posts or anyone who wishes to compromise this civil and common sense approach to discussing the hobby we all love so much. Age is not a sign of maturity, public actions and community interaction are.
A salute to Dale and Doug for having the courage to draw a line in the sand.
Best Regards to all.....
Badger
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Heh, Westy...you know I said I was going to bite my tongue only once...
You know what?. You are not worth a single second of my time. This time I dont bite my tongue this time I dont give a ratz bellybutton (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
So I'm glad you "self-remove" from the forums. Is the only more or less decent thing I've seen coming from you during some 15 months.
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"i read AGW and WWIIOL boards and there seems to be a consensus that AH community is mean, hostile and rude in general. "
--fd ski
This is true. I hope it changes.
J_A_B
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ra and fd-ski both have good points
my prompt for posting this thread was the other in which many people were overjoyed to see these two guys go.
i am not.
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Originally posted by LePaul:
StSanta (and all)
You are welcome to think what you like about me, but you also do not *know* me. So if you are going to judge me on one posting, you are not getting the entire picture.
I've been on both ends of the customer/software provider spectrum. I've been a user, and I also work for a software firm and head up the tech support department. I understand frustrated customers and I also understand that some customers will get way out of hand. While the software we make isnt an on-line game (its navigational software for boats), we do our best to take care of our users and based on knowing how *I* like to be treated, that is how I treat my users.
With that said, if a customer is going to stand in the midst of 100 of my users and be nothing but a big mouthed menace, you have to do something. You guys are so quick to defend Nath, its rather pathetic. Yet in the same message board and threads earlier, you guys are complaining you are weary of the mouthing off going on in channel 1.
You can't have it both ways.
What Nath did is quite indefensible, and if you guys get your jollies flaming me, so be it. Again, if you werent there to see it, you missed a lot. Nath showed his true colors to me and everyone on, and you can only kick the dog so many times.
LePaul, and I mean this entirely inoffensively, read the first paragraph of what you wrote very carefully. That is an amazingly concise point. Reread the rest of what's there keeping that phrase sharply in mind.
Substitute anyone's handle in place of "me".
It would do this community a world of good to take such words into consideration before they engage in any type of communication. Lately however, the trend has been stereotypical and prejudice to an extent.
I am not at all suprised at HiTech or Pyro's reactions as of late. I do not agree with it but I can understand the motivation. What I cannot understand is the reaction of the community. I have seen no one quick to defend Nath. I have seen the members of the community attack like buzzards on an issue that should of been dropped. Including people who were not subject to the event, or those who do not know Nath but still decide to pass judgement anyway instead of relying on HiTech's judgement on what is best for the community. I knew Nath outside of his act in the game. How many people that are beating that dead horse did? People are condemning him for his persona. I'm sure his squad mates would agree with me on that. His actions aren't excusable in their compilation, neither is the reaction of this community to his banning.
We say we want the community better, but such negative reactions only show we are digging the hole deeper.
There is an air of hipocrasy and it stinks.
I trust in HiTech's judgement in what is best for the community.
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Bye Westy !
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Jigster-
I hope you don't think most people who are trying to remain objective and discuss this openly are doing endzone jigs over banned players. I know that certainly is not my intent, and I feel that people other than me have tried to delicately discuss this matter in a constructive way.
Like it or not this is big news and people are going to talk about it. So, how do we do that? I don't think personal attacks are the way to go anytime, certainly more so when the person attacked cannot defend themselves. The problem here is how does one relate a sense of having actually knowing the characters involved without at least a cursory mentioning of them and whether or not one had any trouble? I don't think the details of the altercations are relevant in any way and should be left out. I personally have chosen to merely say "I had my experiences with them". Hopefully that conveys the possibility that I was at least partially at fault.
Another thing that is important to try to observe in this discussion is keeping the debate focused on the behavioral aspect of the problem, not the character of the people involved. What I think of anyone else is not important; how I act to them is. Everyone isn't going to like everyone, but everyone has to behave within socially acceptable boundaries. That is the issue here, nothing else.
So, it comes to this- we have a mess of new people that are wondering what the hell happened in the last 24 hours. They don't know these guys at all, have no experiences that allow them to understand HTC's actions, and therefore conclude this was some capricious act of powermongering. Even the most ardent supporters of the two expelled must realize this is not what happened. This is not a "one false move and you're dead" environment, nor should those that know better try to portray this as some kind of unfair action on behalf of HTC.
This stuff is going to be discussed. It is ugly, painful, and sadly necessary to get through it. There are opinions here that will never change, but there are many more that will. It is important that these new people gain enough relevant information, meaning "pertaining to behavior not character", to develop a balanced view of what happened.
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Hate to see anyone banned. but the facts of life are simple. We all live by rules every day of our life. something we've all become accustomed to.
We follow driving laws, tax laws, work rules etc. dam.......there are rules all over the place <G>
some rules I naturally don't agree with, we are individuals and we all have different outlooks on life. But one thing is clear, if you violate rules you've agreed to obey you pay the consequences.
There is a word called "tact" in the english dictionary. Disagreements can be settled without becoming boisterous and argumentative. NO......I'm not a wuss, but I do know when to keep my mouth shut, and sometimes that's dam hard to do when you have a big mouth like mine <G>
One thing I've also noticed, those with the biggest mouths sometimes only open it long enough to change feet <G> I do hope however that all involved will be able to return and fly the skies of Aces High again. another thing I've learned, we all make mistakes, hopefully we learn from them.
Hajo
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Just for the record:
I had muted Nath earlier that night because he was complaining so much that it was ruining my fun and everyone else's in the arena. After that, he feels compelled to go off on Natedog and complain some more. You'd think a person would get the idea after they've been muted. Obviously, he did not. Because later on in the night he goes off on HT. So, 3 times in one night he provokes us even after being warned.
If he would have talked to one of us on private channel, it would have been a completely different story. It's one thing to voice your opinion. It's another to harass people while they are trying to enjoy themselves. You get what you deserve. We aren't on a witch hunt here. You have to really, really press our buttons to get banned, and he was asking for it.
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"Holy Underwear!"
John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD
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Does anyone else feel like they're in High School again?
Quick everyone get into their cliques and run around like monkeys making dumb bellybutton noises pissing each other off!!! Yeah.... that's the ticket.
-SW
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:::shrugs::: Worse than hating seeing people get banned, I hate seeing people doing things to get banned. Sorry to see customers go, but they left HTC little choice.
EDIT: Based on the MA scenario posted which I have yet to see anyone dispute.
[This message has been edited by Lance (edited 04-06-2001).]
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY:
<snip>It's one thing to voice your opinion. It's another to harass people while they are trying to enjoy themselves.
Does the .squelch command mysteriously not work for HTC employees? Those of us without banning or muting powers have dealt with such harrassing behavior in the past by simply tuning it out.
I wasn't there, but I get the impression that ignoring would have worked just as well as muting/perma-banning.
-- Todd/DMF
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todd,
Having squelch is a good thing as long as I never need to use it. Having to use it once in a blue moon is acceptable but having to use it every single time I log on sucks.
Asking HTC why they just dont squelch instead of banning problem people is rediculous.
If HT and crew would have hammered down on these guys three revisions ago we wouldnt be having this discussion today.
However, better late then never, much better.
Yeager
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MA is for flying
BBS is for some to launch personal attacks
Singeling out people and attacking them , saying THEY are wrong You are right , Sounds like 2 people who were banned .
I never had any respect for those who have attacked me so no lose here . what a bunch of BS
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Todd, ignore something long enough, and it will go away, right? WRONG! And even if I did .squelch him, then Superfly .squelched him, then even HT .squelched him, he would still be talking smack on the radio ruining everyone's good time.
just for the record, Nath's last words to me were, " hey Nate, why don't you go make us an MA terrain that doesn't suck. " Let me tell you how much that brightened up my day. I logged off, the fun was gone. Man, I work hard on a game that I love to play. I want to enjoy it like everyone else. I try to help people out, take suggestions, and welcome constuctive comments, but I draw the line at insults.
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "
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Let us all pause to remember that HTC, while a company, are also individuals and fellow players.
While we're extremely lucky to even have such a relationship in the game, we should appreciate all the more that no one is more sensitive to continual negative criticism than the creators of an object.
Simple civility. Can we manage that?
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Monitoring the arena is one of our jobs. If we were to squelch ch. 1, it would be irresponsible to our community. It wouldn't be long before it turned into a game where people openly used foul language, insults, etc. without fear of consequences. If you want that kind of atmosphere, then AH is not for you. Obviously, we can't catch everyone, but we do our best to regulate within reason. If someone yells over the channel "F**K!" once out of frustration, where not going to hang them. I admit I've done it once or twice. Nobody's perfect. However, there is a definite line between abuse/harassment and exhaulting in frustration.
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"Holy Underwear!"
John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD
[This message has been edited by SUPERFLY (edited 04-06-2001).]
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harranguing newbies is no good. making fun of people for asking how to join as a gunner, etc. hurts their enjoyment of the game. it is tough enough making that first open channel comment and hoping for no rejection. it is a good feeling to be accepted and you should think of your own first online moments and picture them with stinging rejection if you disagree.
when i was new the community was very forgiving. they were harassing but in a good natured way and not nasty at all. i laughed off the taunts because they were meant to teach and test character, not deconstruct.
imagine if your english wasnt so good and you were flying along having a good time and made the mistake of asking a question with the sentence not in perfect form. having to listen to the insuing bashing sucks, it is hurtful and a player with class wouldnt go there in the first place.
newbies are probably shell shocked enough just getting off the ground in this game and it is frustrating in the first few months getting shot down all the time. thats the price of realism. the ones with heart keep at it despite their frustration - THAT is the test, not listening to or accepting some kid or some bitter guy take out their aggressions on easy targets.
class players wouldnt do that. its still an open place and needs new blood. that type of harassment will turn this place into a stale ol boys club in no time.
i cant think of anything good to say about towd so i will skip him.
however i have several videos of engagements with nath and even after review, cant figure out exactly how he pulled some of those stunts. those were some awesome maneuvers no doubt and nath was a clearly superior adversary. i liked fighting him very much even if i lost almost all of the time. primarily because the fight usually taught me something either way.
this is a community though and there is a lot more to it than just being good. htc made a tough choice but a good one - that is the burden of leadership.
there's no happy ending, just an ending.
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Originally posted by Yeager:
Having squelch is a good thing as long as I never need to use it. Having to use it once in a blue moon is acceptable but having to use it every single time I log on sucks.
Asking HTC why they just dont squelch instead of banning problem people is rediculous.
This is why I'm in favor of a permanent squelch list, as suggested long ago by folks like Funked. Add handles to your list and they're squelched every time you log into AH. Out of sight, out of mind.
This was exactly the purpose of a squelch command to begin with... to remove the ability of individuals to harrass others. Banning and muting also achieve the same end, but such a punishment seems severe. Even then, why a permanent ban?
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Even then, why a permanent ban?
-- Todd/DMF
It's only permanent if the offending party decides not to pursue offering an apology to the party being offended.
Just to put a whole new spin on the subject.
-SW
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Originally posted by NATEDOG:
Todd, ignore something long enough, and it will go away, right? WRONG! And even if I did .squelch him, then Superfly .squelched him, then even HT .squelched him, he would still be talking smack on the radio ruining everyone's good time
The point initially I think was that the smack talk really got under your skins, especially HiTech's; I certainly understand why it would, given that this is as much a labor of love for all of you as it is a business. However, I also don't see why .squelching Nath wouldn't make him stop. If he was fishing for a reaction, he got one. If he'd gotten no reaction, he probably would have stopped. In the very least, none of you would have suffered from diminished fun due to what he said, because none of you would have known what he said.
Other players in the arena likewise have access to the .squelch function. If Nath was ruining the arena experience for them, they could have squelched him and flown around blissfully unaware.
I understand that some feel trepidation at using .squelch. However, the command does exist for exactly these sorts of things.
Another thing that bothered me here was that it was a permanent ban... why not one week? Or a month?
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by SUPERFLY:
Monitoring the arena is one of our jobs. If we were to squelch ch. 1, it would be irresponsible to our community.
I understand where you're coming from here. However, I didn't mention that you guys would need to squelch all of Channel 1. I think most people know where Nath's coming from, and it's unlikely that he'd start spewing forth obscenity-laden tirades. From what I've seen here (and remember, I wasn't there), he was mostly attacking gameplay in a rather gruff manner. That is, I think it would have been safe to .squelch him and get on with the job of monitoring the main channel for real problem cases. Or perhaps to privately ask him to tone it done (which may or may not have been done).
-- Todd/DMF
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Todd its not that I disagree with you. A user configurable squelch list has been much needed
as of late but I suspect HTC wants to avoid this hence the banning of t_owd abd nBDP.
Its hard but let me try to explain what I
mean:
I think we are better off with an open community instead of a community that allows everyone, out of necessity, to configure their own comms (squelch) list down to just those they want to hear. Its like living in a neighborhood where no one wants to get to know their neighbors because everyone thinks everyone else is an potentiol amazinhunk. It sucks!
It pisses me so very off that a few loudmouthed ignoramouses can threaten and disrupt such a large and viable group of people. Thats why I support banning these types.
Although some will always resent it and others leave, HTC owes it to the larger aiudience to maintain a livable and enjoyable environment for their customers to spend time in.
Yeager
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The point initially I think was that the smack talk really got under your skins, especially HiTech's
Whether it got under Hitech's skin or not is completely irrelevant, because there is a much bigger issue here. That being that you had two players openly testing HT's ability and willingness to enforce a standard of conduct in his own game and on his own BBS. Both of these people had ample time to quit acting like 'tards before eating the proverbial boot. They not only failed to do so, they upped the ante with even worse behavior. Hitech can't let that go unchecked, or else this would become an ever more common occurence. Personal feelings aside, you cannot let the inmates run the asylum.
Maybe this analogy will make more sense... If an armed criminal ignored a police request to put down his weapon, should the cop simply ignore it and move on? If all cops did this, is it likely that there would be a sudden decline in violent crime in this country? Or would it be more likely that the lack of any ultimate authority enforcing laws would lead to more laws being broken?
Gordo
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Dead Man, I don't squelch anyone. That refers back to exactly what I just explained. He could just go on merrily chastising others and myself while I'm totally oblivious to the situation. I don't ignore problems hoping they will go away on their own, and if I can, I try to solve them. Like I said, THIS IS PART OF MY JOB.
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"Holy Underwear!"
John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD
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Settle down there Super.....and show us a screenshot of a new plane or 2 would ya!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)