Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: chief- on February 24, 2000, 06:49:00 PM
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Anyone else shed wings frequently in the F4U? Seems that about 1 flight in 3 I shed the wings. Its becoming so frustrating that I really dont care to fly much anymore. (I Fly the F4U almost exclusively, and yes I flew the -1D before the -1C, so I took my lumps)
Most of the time I shed one or two wings in situations where I dont feel I should have shed them, for instance I was at 6k over F4 this evening, did a shallow dive to vulch at 350 mph true, i pulled out over the target from about 5 degree nose down to about 5-8 degree nose up and "BANG" same ole Sh#$ left wing gone at fold mechanism. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Please anyone else with this problem post here, I normally dont enter into much of the banter on this board, but I feel like this is a problem that needs some attention, if not, sorry to take your time.
PLEASE no Ive flown the F4U (all of 10 times) and never noticed this problem, lets hear from the guys that fly the hell out of it.
Thank You
Chief out
[This message has been edited by chief- (edited 02-24-2000).]
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Yup.. tho I dont fly one very often; I do kill a few.. and more than a few have gone into the dirt near me sans a wing or two; without ever gettin shot.
Swap yah my paper tail fer yer paper wings. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As a side note.. can find no historical refrence to weak Corsair wings. By all accounts I have encountered; this plane was incredibly tough.. Bombloads up to 4000 pounds; (equivelant of B25!) and a routine mission profile of outdiving kamakazi's bely a weak wing job.
Hope it gets fixed.. immediatly after the Mustangs paper tail is redone in cardboard. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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I shed wingtips ALL the time if a bogey is anymore than 10k below me. The only solution I've found is to use rudder during the boom phase of your attack to keep speed below 420 mph NO MATTER WHAT. Any faster and you are asking for a wing trimming. Using rudder also makes landing this beast very easy as well.
Using rudder also helps you in another way. More than once I've had people ask me how I possibly hit them at the angle I was diving at them. The reason is rudder. To the bogey, you APPEAR to be moving in the direction your nose is pointing, but this is just an illusion.
Hope this helps you.
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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I have had the F4U in a dive at 550 kts and not shed the wings. I use patients and easy stick inputs.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Crew
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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The wings are weak, I've no clue the historical accuracy of this or not, but the thread in one of the other folders seemed to indicate they're not that far off. Once you get used to it, it's really not that bad. I get well over 500 airspeed often in dives, and the only real danger is a quick pull. Just remember to baby the stick at speed and resist the temptation to follow a quick turn.
After a bit you'll get used to using blackout level as a guage on where you're pulling too hard. I used to snap them all the time, but don't think I've snapped em in a couple weeks now, and I frequently approach 550 both chasing and running. If you anticipate having to turn then as Bloom said, use rudder and keep your speed down in the low 400s.
Fatty
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I have wondered if some damage is carrying over from sortie to sortie by accident. IE., rudder sticking on take off. I normally don't have wing problems but twice I have pulled them off with ~3g 300IAS. The rest of the time it is fine. 550IAS dive and no loss as long as I rudder to slow down before using the stick. 400IAS regularly with no probs less than 3g. Just 2x in one day I had 300IAS and ~3g pull and no wings.
Maybe a bug??
BTW when I fly hog I a only fly the 1D to fight. 1C to buff hunt (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Rocket
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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de
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Anybody got film of this?
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I've flown the hog quite exclusively this ToD.
I think I've probably snapped my wings 2-3 times and that's only because I got too eager chasing a con. There was one time I pulled too hard in a defensive maneuver, but again it was because of a silly move.
I think you just have to pull out a little earlier and easy on the stick. Works fine for me most times.
Ex.
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Not enough, Extreme...the Hawg was a rock:
In Korea War, a Hawg pilot got caught in compression while diving...with all his forces he could pull out of the dive...but when doing he broke several bones and had the neck badly hurted (cervicals)...he was out of action for more than one year. The Corsair he was riding flew another sortie the next day!!!!!!
In more than a couple of books I have readed that the Corsair Airframe was stressed for much more than 9Gs...so when I go in a dive in 450 mph and I pull 4 Gs, ripping off my wings I get VERY VERY VERY angry. PLEASE fix this thing...thanks
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Ram, out
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/images/Ram.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-24-2000).]
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RAM...I'm not sure what you've interpretted from my post (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
My post here was simply in the context of the game and Chief's question above (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)..Real Life?...heck if I know.
Ex.
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Yup.. some oddities here with the FM if your using rudder to slow above 400 IAS.. no man alive has legs strong enuff ta kick over the rudder at those speeds. (real life)
Are you cross controlling too? (reverse ail to rudder) This is what I do in the AH stang to slow her.. and at 500 or so the rudder becomes almost useless.
If the Corsair rudder is biting at those speeds something unfinished in FM is my guess.
Hmmm... and as for the wing shedding.. dunno. Used to loose a lot of stang wings.. Now I dont.. gawd yah have to be sooooooooooooooo gentle above 450... or *BAG*BANG*... lawn dart. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Hang
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i'm exclusively flying the HOG and i noticed the same sometimes... usually i loose my wing in rather slow speed / low G situations which is weird (makes me think of spiking)
When going real fast i usually start flying with trims as soon as i hear the overstress sound coming in .. i tried the rudder kicking too but at speeds above 450-500 you must be real carefull or you loose your rudder.
However i have not lost my wing lately (just once when i had the airspeed indicator pegged at the stop (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
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(http://members.aon.at/duckwing6/dw601.gif)
Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew (http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm)
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As most of you know, I'm a Hog-O-phile as well, and fly it all the time.
I use 500 MPH dives on a regular basis with no problems. BUT, I have had a few weird experiences where I lost a wingtip at 300-400 IAS without pulling much G.. not even into tunnel vision. It seems to be sort of rare. Most times I can do stuff like pull a near-totally blacked out loop from 450 MPH with no problem. (And boy does that low 109 driver ever freak when you loop back onto his six THAT fast. <G> )
Regarding the rudder. Hog rudder is good to slow the craft, but starts to lose effectiveness over 300MPH. It works at 400.. it just doesn't do much. However, if you start a dive slow and cross control it all the way down, it keeps your speed nice and low.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/ (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
- Steve Earl
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Goes to show I must not fly it well enough, because I haven't seen this! I've lost wings- to cannon fire! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
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The only time I ever ripped an f4 wing was when I exceeded 600kn. I regularly run up a bit over 500kn without incident. I guess if I yanked the stick runnin at 550 I could rip the wings, but never tried (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
CRASH
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I'm thinking the wings shed mostly when pulling assymetric or "rolling" G (G loading with an aileron deflected). This is putting a "twist" on the wing spar.
I haven't really done enough testing but right now my perception is that if I pull "straight" I can keep the wings up in the 500 kt range.
If I pull just a little rolling G, I lose one in this range. If I really honk on rolling G, I can shed in the 400+ range.
Anyone else noticed anything like this or am I delusional yet again?
As I mentioned before, if the Hog had done this to any great extent in RL, I believe there would be "warstories" about it. I haven't heard any.
I think we're just going to have to learn to live with it here, however.
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I agree Toad,
I just ripped one online (After climbing to 15k, cruising to the enemy base, and diving on my first kill just as the acks went down.. of course. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif))
A straight pull doesn't do it, I as about 450 and as soon as I rolled left BLAM.. no wing.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/ (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
- Steve Earl
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Ive lost wing tips in turn fights. At speed as low as 300ias. I havae my stick setting pretty much 100percent across. So i assume the sharp movement is causeing this. I seldom fly the plane anymore for this reason. BTW I seldom black compleatly out.
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Yes, Hangtime, I use rudder and aileron to slow down in a dive. I've noticed that if you try any type of roll above 400 mph, you often lose wingtips. Usually what I do is dive at around 450, then slow to 400 right before shooting. This lets me do just about anything if I don't get the bogey with the first burst. (Usually I'll pull up into a shallow climb and set up for another pass.)
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Okay, to all who replied above thanks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) First a few things I've noticed throughout the threads above.
1. After going through all my gun films (wow how tedius, must keep up on them more) Ive found one instance were I ripped my wing at about 800ft and 350-375 mph in a diving right turn from 2.4 k to take out a P51 on the deck, I pulled 9 g's plus! for about 1 sec :/
2. The incident stated in my first thread I did not film (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
3. If anyone wants the film noted in 1, I will zip and send.
CONCLUSION: Perhaps I have been exceeding the Gee limits of the aircraft and not even realized it, further investigation is in order. I apologize if I cried wolf to soon I should get my proof in order first. Nevertheless I will use gun cam every flight from here on out to try and see if this wingripping is truly a problem, and will post here if I find anything.
Thank you all
Chief out
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Reason might also be that your stick is having spikes...
You pull easily, stick spikes quickly, 3G turns into 5G for matter of milliseconds and kabang... overstress.
Go into joystick setup (in the game) and then move your stick slowly and watch the diagram (or whatever..) on the left side..
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...hate these web boards.
If theres stick spikes, then just fix it by adding some dampening.
Also changing scalings for the stick might help.
[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 02-26-2000).]
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Punt. Could someone from HTC comment on this matter.
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I'll take a look at it and make an adjustment for the next version.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
"If it's stupid but works, it's not stupid."
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I used to think they were too weak Pyro, but not anymore. Last night I pulled out of a 600+ airspeed vertical dive, I think that's strong enough.
The roll snap, my experience matches Toad's. Looking back all my lower speed snaps were rolling (hard) into a pull. I don't know if that's seperate or tied into straight compression, or if it's accurate, or what, but the straight pull and high speed durability don't seem too bad (from someone who used to think it did).
Fatty