Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Vinkman on June 04, 2012, 12:48:20 PM
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I think the ranking system should be modified to substitute PERKS EARNED in lieu of HIT PERCENTAGE.
Hit percentage often makes a big difference in rank, but I've never been sure why it is used. Is it a skill metric?
If so I think PERKS EARNED is a better metric. you earn perks by flying less capable planes against more capable planes. That seems like a better metric of skill than hit%. Also the rank is currently un-affected by ENY. So if you score all your points and kills in a tempest or a Pony, you are ranked even with a pilot that achieved the same results in a P-39. That seems kind of silly.
Since the Fighter Rank is based on your rank in all the categories, taking out the hit% and putting in the PERKS earned would help to compansate for the type of plane you fly.
While people would still play for score, they would have to cut down on the percentage of ponies and typhies they fly and run away in to actually be highly ranked.
I know EVERYONE says they don't play for score. It would be interesting to see how the game is affected by this simple change.
:salute
Vinkman
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<enters vinky's brain>
<leaves message:> Agree with problem but need better solution than using perks as perks can be farmed. Me flying my Spit9 all day long, earning perks, shooting down / picking inferior turners does not make me a highly skilled fighter. Note Bruv's hit pct which is one of the reasons he is highly skilled. He knows how to get close and hit hard in 1 v 1 or 1 v many.
<leaves vinky's brain rather quickly>
:old: Communicating with Vinky can be fun.
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I think who you fight and beat consistently is the best measure of skill.
Is there a better solution to measure this? :headscratch:
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I think who you fight and beat consistently is the best measure of skill.
Is there a better solution to measure this? :headscratch:
ahhh yup :aok
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ahhh yup :aok
If you are or are not implying a dueling ladder is better, I, as you know, would disagree. Highly skilled needs to include all the variety of MA encounters instead of just the sterile, and somewhat dull, environment of a 1 v 1 duel.
SA and the ability to take down the right target at the right time is a key component of skill as is knowing when to engage and when to run home to land 8+ kills.
:old: Study the best pilots and find a way to measure their activities.
I like hit pct included mostly because pilots like Bruv have higher ones than pilots like me.
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Dueling is the fundament of all. No need for more lickitty licking, midway. Cuz many BnZing a few isnt skillful. Cuz the spit is like a plaza-kitty: whatever you do, the success will be yours.
I give a +1 to Vinkman's idea.
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Dueling is the fundament of all. No need for more lickitty licking, midway. Cuz many BnZing a few isnt skillful. Cuz the spit is like a plaza-kitty: whatever you do, the success will be yours.
I give a +1 to Vinkman's idea.
You get picked a lot and complain about it often. Your SA, IMHO, is not what it should be (neither is mine)....
Improve your SA, avoid getting picked, and your skill level will improve (as should your rank).
Kazaa also appeared to be very good at this as well as Leviathn from what I can tell.
:old: A highly skilled pilot is also a very smart pilot.
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The Rank system is not used to determine who the highest skilled fighter pilot is. That is only an element of it. It is used to determine who wins the tour. I'm addressing Rank based on score. PERKS EARNED should be part of the score, becaue the capability of the plane you get all your points in should be a factor in who wins the tour.
for clarity, PERKS EARNED are specific to the TOUR and ARENA. PERKs farmedin EW wouldn't count in LW, and PERKS carried over from previous tours would not count either.
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The Rank system is not used to determine who the highest skilled fighter pilot is. That is only an element of it. It is used to determine who wins the tour. I'm addressing Rank based on score. PERKS EARNED should be part of the score, becaue the capability of the plane you get all your points in should be a factor in who wins the tour.
The fighter rank component should. :headscratch: If you are ranked nbr 1 on the fighter ranking, you should be the best, based on skill, that tour. The metrics should be set to figure that out, in my humble opinion. :)
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I am sorry to say it midway but you will never "get" it.....bruv is a great shot yup...definitely a better shot then I am.....hell a blind monkey with bananas in his eye's is a better shot then I....
as far as ACM he is no better then many I have fought and killed.... some are way better at ACM then he is and I have made them look silly (on my good days).....your obsession with him is down right strange and kinda creepy....
because of this obsession you will never make it to his level or even come close, I see you write lots of things about killing this one or that one...buddy MA is a cesspool that means nothing unless it was a straight up 1vs1 with equal E it means squat....you fly with friendlies...I know you do you cant deny it...killing someone while he is fighting Multi cons ALSO means squat....
score and RANK mean squat...you talk about getting good and that's what you want...but the best tool in game to get good you refuse to except....you only care about the kill you do not care about getting better....
staying in the spit and not staying in the ladder are 2 reasons why I say these things...also bragging about killing someone in the MA situation while most likely you had the number advantage tells me all I need to know.
I am not insulting you don't take it that way.....you should read it and take it in.....without thinking I am picking on you...because I am not.......
it does come down to your 15 bucks to fly with how you see fit...
I will say this for you....you fight and that deserves mention...considering how the MA is now a days.
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You get picked a lot and complain about it often. Your SA, IMHO, is not what it should be (neither is mine)....
Improve your SA, avoid getting picked, and your skill level will improve (as should your rank).
:old: A highly skilled pilot is also a very smart pilot.
I been number one for a couple weeks only flying the 109, finished a couple months in the top10 flying an eny30 ride. Tell me my SA suxed. Also i would only talk in past tense about me.
There are many pilots out there i couldnt beat yet none of them is bragging about their score. Your licking behaviour is odd. .ignore
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I am sorry to say it midway but you will never "get" it.....bruv is a great shot yup...definitely a better shot then I am.....hell a blind monkey with bananas in his eye's is a better shot then I....
as far as ACM he is no better then many I have fought and killed.... some are way better at ACM then he is and I have made them look silly (on my good days).....your obsession with him is down right strange and kinda creepy....
because of this obsession you will never make it to his level or even come close, I see you write lots of things about killing this one or that one...buddy MA is a cesspool that means nothing unless it was a straight up 1vs1 with equal E it means squat....you fly with friendlies...I know you do you cant deny it...killing someone while he is fighting Multi cons ALSO means squat....
score and RANK mean squat...you talk about getting good and that's what you want...but the best tool in game to get good you refuse to except....you only care about the kill you do not care about getting better....
staying in the spit and not staying in the ladder are 2 reasons why I say these things...also bragging about killing someone in the MA situation while most likely you had the number advantage tells me all I need to know.
I am not insulting you don't take it that way.....you should read it and take it in.....without thinking I am picking on you...because I am not.......
it does come down to your 15 bucks to fly with how you see fit...
I will say this for you....you fight and that deserves mention...considering how the MA is now a days.
Nothing creepy about my admiration for highly skilled plots (including you). There are many paths to success. I've chosen a different one than you. Might make it harder for me, but at least I have fun which is the 2nd of 2 reasons I fly in AH. Having fun is just as important to me as getting better. :aok
:salute :rock
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I been number one for a couple weeks only flying the 109, finished a couple months in the top10 flying an eny30 ride. Tell me my SA suxed. Also i would only talk in past tense about me.
There are many pilots out there i couldnt beat yet none of them is bragging about their score. Your licking behaviour is odd. .ignore
Great. Then your SA might be better now. Congrats! I just remember from several months ago which is what I was referring to. You were very easy for me to pick multiple times. Have not run into you lately though.
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Nothing creepy about my admiration for highly skilled plots (including you). There are many paths to success. I've chosen a different one than you. Might make it harder for me, but at least I have fun which is the 2nd of 2 reasons I fly in AH. Having fun is just as important to me as getting better. :aok
:salute :rock
want to respond...but we gotta stop hijacking Vinks thread.
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A system based on who you beat is problematic for two reasons that are related, and juxtaposed. You can't control who you fight so luck would have to be on yourside as to what rank the players you came across were. If you could, You'd never get a fight because killing one Joach1m would be worth 15 midways. This would be a nightmare for the top ranked pilots as everyone would be searching and gunning for them, while bypassing lower ranked pilots. Would Joach1m become a lower ranked pilot because his numbers dropped because he was being ganged everywhere he showed up? The real problem with a skill based rank system is that there has not yet been a system that addresses "skill". If you land 6 kills against "Ranked" pilots, there is no way to determine if you picked them, or beat them in 1v1s. Hoping or pretending that the current Ranking system addresses 1v1 dog fighting skill is fantasy.
What it does address is a winner of the tour based on the criteria of highest scoring in the designated categories. You must assume in any scoring system that smart people will use strategies that the scoring system drives them to. You earn four times the points for landing your sorties than you do if you get shot down on the way home, not to mention how landing is positive for K/D. SMART = fly PonyDs, Doras, and La7s and run when in trouble. If PERKS EARNED mattered, the ponyD, Dora, La7, Spitsteen, croud would fall out of the top 50 because those are tough planes to earn perks in. So being the smart, strategic folks they are, the scoring croud would fly planes with lower ENY. They would still horde, but a horde of P-40s is less dominating then a Horde of P-51s, or SpitXVIs, or La7s.
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I am sorry to say it midway but you will never "get" it.....bruv is a great shot yup...
Ergo my arguing against removing hit pct, as vinky requested, from the ranking metric.
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want to respond...but we gotta stop hijacking Vinks thread.
:salute
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Problem with hit percentage ranking, is the few like me who wait untill 200 yards to fire would suffer horribly.
Hit percentage usually stays above 14%
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Hit percentage often makes a big difference in rank, but I've never been sure why it is used. Is it a skill metric?
Let's put it this way:
It's not worse as a skill metric than K/D ;)
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Let's put it this way:
It's not worse as a skill metric than K/D ;)
Tue lusche very true. Ok so what do you think of my idea to add PERKS EARNED?
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I wouldn't be in favor of replacing hit % with it, but I kind of like the idea of adding it as a category. It's interesting to consider how it would affect the stats. I've never looked at the fighter scoring algorithm that hard, does it already take into account the relative ENY between the two aircraft, or not?
If so, the metric you're proposing here would already be taken into account by affecting fighter points, wouldn't it?
Wiley.
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Tue lusche very true. Ok so what do you think of my idea to add PERKS EARNED?
"Perks earned/sortie" might be interesting, but pure "perks earned" seems like it is mostly a "how much did this guy play" number. Also, for bomber ranking, hitting town centers is, by far, the best perk reward and it is also probably the safest thing to bomb and thus would not be a good metric for bombers unless dramatically rebalanced.
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I wouldn't be in favor of replacing hit % with it, but I kind of like the idea of adding it as a category. It's interesting to consider how it would affect the stats. I've never looked at the fighter scoring algorithm that hard, does it already take into account the relative ENY between the two aircraft, or not?
If so, the metric you're proposing here would already be taken into account by affecting fighter points, wouldn't it?
Wiley.
I've looked into it pretty hard, as has Lusche. It does not take ENY into account at all. That's what I think it's slanted.
Formula is to total your rank in each category (K/D, K/sortie, Kills/hour, Points, % landed, hit%, etc) for score. Then the total is ranked with lowest being best. So a bad score in a category has a big effect. Isn't it easier to run up scores in those categories in a tempest than a P-39?
That formula encourages folks ganging, picking, and to BnZ in low ENY and PERK planes.
Adding PERKS EARNED would address the Low ENY and PERK plane part. It might secondarily addess the BnZ-ing because it's hard to BnZ in most of the Low ENY birds.
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"Perks earned/sortie" might be interesting, but pure "perks earned" seems like it is mostly a "how much did this guy play" number. Also, for bomber ranking, hitting town centers is, by far, the best perk reward and it is also probably the safest thing to bomb and thus would not be a good metric for bombers unless dramatically rebalanced.
My focus was the fighter rank. Hadn't thought of Bombers. That would need a new study. :D
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"Perks earned/sortie" might be interesting, but pure "perks earned" seems like it is mostly a "how much did this guy play" number.
I don't see that as being too big of a deal, as the same can be said of fighter points, can't it? Would maybe changing the formula for fighter points to account for ENY be the better solution overall?
Wiley.
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I once made the perks/hour proposal myself, it was shot down be the higher powers :cry
In case of bombers, I have about no idea how to make it any meaningful at all. At least no idea that would be simple to implement ;)
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Your metrics need to reflect what being the best means for each fish bowl.
In the DA Debroy is 100% correct in the manner of choosing who's best. There is no other way to decide the best duelist but have averyone who is a duelist duel until only one duelist remains.
The MA has a multitiude of goals to be accomplished by a larger pool of players. So the DA manner of choosing the best is irrelevant to the multitiude of goals being measured. If you have years of MA SA experience, then more often your shooting ability in any moment is more important to your Hit%. SHawk is an excellent example of this. From time to time when accomplished duelists with years of MA and DA experience decide to achive high rank based on the curent metric. They have a higher success rates at achiving the goal but, don't always hit the mark. In the MA there is always one more con than you accounted for diving in after you.
I would speculate if it's purely fighter to fighter Hit% in the MA. You cannot achive a high Hit% purely on assists by the definition of High Hit%. It means you are activily engaging the enemy so the probability is you are killing a High percentage of those you engage.
If this whole conversation Vinkman is a cover for rehasing the merits of ENY ride choices as a veiled measure of a players real skill level for you to thump your chest over. And number of kills is the metric to measure how good you are relative to the rest of the MA. Why don't you be honest and simply Wishlist the following:
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Hitech I have a Wish.
Please create a new metric to Hallmark LWMA pilot success in the monthly pilot statistics posted on the front page of the AH WEB Site. Call it the "Vinkman Curve" or "Debroy's Revenge". Base it upon the pilot statistic of the greatest number of late war ENY aircraft shot down in the ENY range of 5-10 by the pilot flying the highest ENY aircaft in the range of 30-40.
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Vinkman I bet Lusche can teach you how to pull this metric your self and you can monthly start up a post in the forum showing the winner. Like Lusche is the Keeper of the Graphs. You can become the Keeper of the high ENY pilot kill stats or the monthly "Vinkman Curve" review.
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Dont let me wrong, even tho that rank system could make a good effect on my score, belive me, im the least interested in that stuff (not playing and possibly wont come back).
Dont troll me, Bustr. plz
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Your metrics need to reflect what being the best means for each fish bowl.
In the DA Debroy is 100% correct in the manner of choosing who's best. There is no other way to decide the best duelist but have averyone who is a duelist duel until only one duelist remains.
The MA has a multitiude of goals to be accomplished by a larger pool of players. So the DA manner of choosing the best is irrelevant to the multitiude of goals being measured. If you have years of MA SA experience, then more often your shooting ability in any moment is more important to your Hit%. SHawk is an excellent example of this. From time to time when accomplished duelists with years of MA and DA experience decide to achive high rank based on the curent metric. They have a higher success rates at achiving the goal but, don't always hit the mark. In the MA there is always one more con than you accounted for diving in after you.
I would speculate if it's purely fighter to fighter Hit% in the MA. You cannot achive a high Hit% purely on assists by the definition of High Hit%. It means you are activily engaging the enemy so the probability is you are killing a High percentage of those you engage.
If this whole conversation Vinkman is a cover for rehasing the merits of ENY ride choices as a veiled measure of a players real skill level for you to thump your chest over. And number of kills is the metric to measure how good you are relative to the rest of the MA. Why don't you be honest and simply Wishlist the following:
----------------------------------
Hitech I have a Wish.
Please create a new metric to Hallmark LWMA pilot success in the monthly pilot statistics posted on the front page of the AH WEB Site. Call it the "Vinkman Curve" or "Debroy's Revenge". Base it upon the pilot statistic of the greatest number of late war ENY aircraft shot down in the ENY range of 5-10 by the pilot flying the highest ENY aircaft in the range of 30-40.
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Vinkman I bet Lusche can teach you how to pull this metric your self and you can monthly start up a post in the forum showing the winner. Like Lusche is the Keeper of the Graphs. You can become the Keeper of the high ENY pilot kill stats or the monthly "Vinkman Curve" review.
No chest thumping. It's all about the BnZ pickers and runners and low eny planes in the game. ENY is supposed to create balance. I think integrating ENY into the score would really up it's balancing effect. That was my only reason for suggesting it.
I can't study perks because they are not part of the stats. They are a pilot's personal secret. As for scoring the High vs Low plane to plane kills, it could be done, and a rough PERK effect could be determined, and the ranks re-evaluated based on such a thing. I do not predict that I will be anywhere on any top rank list no matter how it is calculated so that is not the reason I would look at it. I'm all about insentives. You get what you encourage. Lusche showed Pony, La7, Spit, usage as not being very balanced. I thought of a way to correct it.
I'm an engineer. ;)
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I simply like the idea of ENY as well as current perk modifier (country balance) being part of the score "kill points" calculation, just as they are in perk gain calculation. After all, landing modifier is part of both systems already. :old:
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Your metrics need to reflect what being the best means for each fish bowl.
In the DA Debroy is 100% correct in the manner of choosing who's best. There is no other way to decide the best duelist but have averyone who is a duelist duel until only one duelist remains.
The MA has a multitiude of goals to be accomplished by a larger pool of players. So the DA manner of choosing the best is irrelevant to the multitiude of goals being measured. If you have years of MA SA experience, then more often your shooting ability in any moment is more important to your Hit%. SHawk is an excellent example of this. From time to time when accomplished duelists with years of MA and DA experience decide to achive high rank based on the curent metric. They have a higher success rates at achiving the goal but, don't always hit the mark. In the MA there is always one more con than you accounted for diving in after you.
I would speculate if it's purely fighter to fighter Hit% in the MA. You cannot achive a high Hit% purely on assists by the definition of High Hit%. It means you are activily engaging the enemy so the probability is you are killing a High percentage of those you engage.
If this whole conversation Vinkman is a cover for rehasing the merits of ENY ride choices as a veiled measure of a players real skill level for you to thump your chest over. And number of kills is the metric to measure how good you are relative to the rest of the MA. Why don't you be honest and simply Wishlist the following:
----------------------------------
Hitech I have a Wish.
Please create a new metric to Hallmark LWMA pilot success in the monthly pilot statistics posted on the front page of the AH WEB Site. Call it the "Vinkman Curve" or "Debroy's Revenge". Base it upon the pilot statistic of the greatest number of late war ENY aircraft shot down in the ENY range of 5-10 by the pilot flying the highest ENY aircaft in the range of 30-40.
----------------------------------
Vinkman I bet Lusche can teach you how to pull this metric your self and you can monthly start up a post in the forum showing the winner. Like Lusche is the Keeper of the Graphs. You can become the Keeper of the high ENY pilot kill stats or the monthly "Vinkman Curve" review.
Here comes bustr and one of his walls of text!! :huh
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Vinkman,
Gotta admit the guy winning that thing each month would either have a second account or is one bad arse muva in LWMA terms. It might rekindle interest and an active cadre of practitioners with fans becoming particapants themselves. Kermit was at his best when he took up an interest in the 109E and regularly landed kills.
Kind of miss that Frency challenge from 2004 to fly the D25 for a month and land the most kills with the least deaths. Frenchy told me later some players may have been using second accounts to pad their numbers to get the trophy he offered.
Other than a monthly metric to post on the WEB page, it would nice if a running freindly competition would come back concerning the dedicated use of high ENY fighters to put up high monthly kill numbers.
Every time my squad goes on a fun run fighter sweep in high ENY fighters. It's anything but fun trying to stay alive once we engage a hoard of low ENY defenders. I get rudely reminded of how easy it is to land big kill strings in LW low ENY easy mode fighters becasue you can disengage almost at will from sticky situations. Those high ENY planes are the epotomy of last man standing if you want to go home alive. You are either dead or the last man standing.
Thats why keeping score in the MA is so strange. The diversity of objectives you can measure players against makes it almost worthless to measure anyone. One would think in terms of fighters the best of the best would be the players who can land large kill strings all month long in the highest ENY planes becasue they are so good that they will always be the last man standing. Instead they are usualy flying planes with the ability to disengage at will leveraging the engine power and gun packages of their rides. I'm not even sure how bombers are being measured. Is it for the most objects destroyed with bombs every month? Or the most destroyed and getting back alive? Or the most destroyed in a high ENY bomber and getting back alive?
What objective standard is being used to measure who is best every month? Last I recently heard you can still finess it to some degree by following a formula. Guess then you are being measured on your ability to follow that formula rather than how many times a month you are the last man standing.
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Redbull,
Need the phone number of a good opthamologist? I do attempt to make it unecessary to use a dictonairy where possible. But, I was under the impression in a first world economy reading and writing is fundimental to success and should be practiced at all times, just like practicing ACM in the DA.
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Vinkman,
Gotta admit the guy winning that thing each month would either have a second account or is one bad arse muva in LWMA terms. It might rekindle interest and an active cadre of practitioners with fans becoming particapants themselves. Kermit was at his best when he took up an interest in the 109E and regularly landed kills.
Kind of miss that Frency challenge from 2004 to fly the D25 for a month and land the most kills with the least deaths. Frenchy told me later some players may have been using second accounts to pad their numbers to get the trophy he offered.
Other than a monthly metric to post on the WEB page, it would nice if a running freindly competition would come back concerning the dedicated use of high ENY fighters to put up high monthly kill numbers.
Every time my squad goes on a fun run fighter sweep in high ENY fighters. It's anything but fun trying to stay alive once we engage a hoard of low ENY defenders. I get rudely reminded of how easy it is to land big kill strings in LW low ENY easy mode fighters becasue you can disengage almost at will from sticky situations. Those high ENY planes are the epotomy of last man standing if you want to go home alive. You are either dead or the last man standing.
Thats why keeping score in the MA is so strange. The diversity of objectives you can measure players against makes it almost worthless to measure anyone. One would think in terms of fighters the best of the best would be the players who can land large kill strings all month long in the highest ENY planes becasue they are so good that they will always be the last man standing. Instead they are usualy flying planes with the ability to disengage at will leveraging the engine power and gun packages of their rides. I'm not even sure how bombers are being measured. Is it for the most objects destroyed with bombs every month? Or the most destroyed and getting back alive? Or the most destroyed in a high ENY bomber and getting back alive?
What objective standard is being used to measure who is best every month? Last I recently heard you can still finess it to some degree by following a formula. Guess then you are being measured on your ability to follow that formula rather than how many times a month you are the last man standing.
--------------------------------
Redbull,
Need the phone number of a good opthamologist? I do attempt to make it unecessary to use a dictonairy where possible. But, I was under the impression in a first world economy reading and writing is fundimental to success and should be practiced at all times, just like practicing ACM in the DA.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071116212052/uncyclopedia/images/6/60/Owl-reading.gif)
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Vinkman,
Gotta admit the guy winning that thing each month would either have a second account or is one bad arse muva in LWMA terms. It might rekindle interest and an active cadre of practitioners with fans becoming particapants themselves. Kermit was at his best when he took up an interest in the 109E and regularly landed kills.
Kind of miss that Frency challenge from 2004 to fly the D25 for a month and land the most kills with the least deaths. Frenchy told me later some players may have been using second accounts to pad their numbers to get the trophy he offered.
Other than a monthly metric to post on the WEB page, it would nice if a running freindly competition would come back concerning the dedicated use of high ENY fighters to put up high monthly kill numbers.
Every time my squad goes on a fun run fighter sweep in high ENY fighters. It's anything but fun trying to stay alive once we engage a hoard of low ENY defenders. I get rudely reminded of how easy it is to land big kill strings in LW low ENY easy mode fighters becasue you can disengage almost at will from sticky situations. Those high ENY planes are the epotomy of last man standing if you want to go home alive. You are either dead or the last man standing.
Thats why keeping score in the MA is so strange. The diversity of objectives you can measure players against makes it almost worthless to measure anyone. One would think in terms of fighters the best of the best would be the players who can land large kill strings all month long in the highest ENY planes becasue they are so good that they will always be the last man standing. Instead they are usualy flying planes with the ability to disengage at will leveraging the engine power and gun packages of their rides. I'm not even sure how bombers are being measured. Is it for the most objects destroyed with bombs every month? Or the most destroyed and getting back alive? Or the most destroyed in a high ENY bomber and getting back alive?
What objective standard is being used to measure who is best every month? Last I recently heard you can still finess it to some degree by following a formula. Guess then you are being measured on your ability to follow that formula rather than how many times a month you are the last man standing.
--------------------------------
Redbull,
Need the phone number of a good opthamologist? I do attempt to make it unecessary to use a dictonairy where possible. But, I was under the impression in a first world economy reading and writing is fundimental to success and should be practiced at all times, just like practicing ACM in the DA.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071116212052/uncyclopedia/images/6/60/Owl-reading.gif)