Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on June 04, 2012, 02:30:45 PM
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Guys,
With regard to the BF-109 30mm cannon, could you tater experts please share your preferences on using it for ACM (shooting range, tactics, aiming etc.).
Thanks,
Slade :salute
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Try to create crossing snapshots, lead a lot, dont be afraid to spray a bit more (6-7 rounds) til you get confident. I had difficulties with hitting a straight flying aircraft tho, wasnt trying to shoot further than 400.
Btw i think Agent or Grizz made a nice, illustrated writeup, try searching "aiming the tater". GL!
err here it is http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,280043.0.html
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Wait until they fill the windscreen.
Don't try and put your nose so much on the plane but let the enemy plane cross your nose.
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I just throw 65 taters at a con and hope 1 sticks. If I land 2 kills or more I was vulching.
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Try to create crossing snapshots, lead a lot, dont be afraid to spray a bit more (6-7 rounds) til you get confident.
This ist it. Make him fly into your taters! :aok
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Wait until they fill the windscreen.
Don't try and put your nose so much on the plane but let the enemy plane cross your nose.
this is it. fire pont blank one round does it, 2 is overkill.
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Yak 9T taters > K4 taters
:banana:
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Yak 9T taters > K4 taters
:banana:
410 taters > Yak9T taters
:neener:
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410 taters > Yak9T taters
:neener:
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Yak 9T taters > K4 taters
The 9T gun is one of the most amazing flying cannons. Makes the P39 and 109 nose taters look like something from the Napoleonic era. Too bad the plane is not as amazing as the cannon. Has a nice look to it though.
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As mentioned already, read Grizz's right up on how to set up a shot. One thing I have done before to get my tatoring skillz up is only use single tators.....it's like shooting a tanks gun at 300 MPH :aok
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Great posts - thanks all!
That Grizz post is very nice!
I did not know the Yak9t tater was that potent. Would you say the ideal technique is the same for all taters, i.e. get the enemy plane to fly through them as Grizz shows?
Thanks again,
Slade :salute
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I think i took up the Jak9T only a handful of times, my experience with it is very short.
What i noticed: the ballistics are awesome. You can hit a straight flying, tipical escaping target from 800+. In a turning fight i couldnt hit crap with it, couse of my habit of leading way too much (as i should aim with the 151/20 and the 108). Its fire rate is pretty slow, in the crossing snapshots the opponent can fly through your bullet stream and remain unhurt. Your ammo load is very limited, you cant spray 10 rounds bursts like with as the mk108. Also the plane itself is slow and is a poor turnfighter. I would say, practice a lot in the DA til youre confident.
The p-39's gun is a waste. Poor ballistics, horrible fire rate, very small ammo load, also the plane is next to be inpotent too. Its only for masochists.
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They're great for lobbing shots beyond the range of bomber defensive guns but the yak9t just won't keep up with a b17 flying at 300mph at 32,000 feet that somehow manages a 800fpm climb at the same time.
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The 9T gun is one of the most amazing flying cannons. Makes the P39 and 109 nose taters look like something from the Napoleonic era. Too bad the plane is not as amazing as the cannon. Has a nice look to it though.
The projectile is great, the gun isn't.
Before I get flamed now: I mean that for practical purposes. Slower rate of fire and much less ammo means you really have to 'snipe' - pretent you have a single shot weapon and use it accordingly. That makes it less effective in true dogfights than the Mk 108, despite it's better ballistics.
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The projectile is great, the gun isn't.
Before I get flamed now: I mean that for practical purposes. Slower rate of fire and much less ammo means you really have to 'snipe' - pretent you have a single shot weapon and use it accordingly. That makes it less effective in true dogfights than the Mk 108, despite it's better ballistics.
I actually like the slow rate of fire. In the Mk108 I always release more spuds than I like to and trying to shoot fewer takes to much attention or jumping of the trigger. NS-37 IS a sniper cannon. In term of effectiveness just give me a quad of 20mm, but if one insists on a single nose tater then I agree, the Mk108 package is more effective.
My problem with the Mk108 has always been my lousy gunnery skills. The only way I could make it work is by flying right up to the nme, so close that it feels like I am "attaching" a 30mm sticky bomb to it. The I used to ram 1 out of 4 of the victims. The NS-37 allowed some better shots against non maneuvering targets.
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Random dispersion is being reasonabley modeled in the game for this round. Check the last block of data for the dipersion at distance. Note by 200m(219yd) your random dispersion is 14ft.
Dispersion is your enemy opposed to lead timing which for the most part is lead the con 2-3 times as much as you are used to. The game code gives you a gamey advantage to average out random dispersion a bit by allowing you to tilt your gun barrel up inside of the engine out of line with the hollow airscrew shaft. In the real Bf109-K4 the cannon barrel was locked into the hollow airscrew shaft with no ability to elevate the barrel. Rounds could not be fired above the line of the airscrew shaft.
350 yards convergence is the "gamiest best" because it will average your rounds within an almost flat trajectory to 350 yards. Most of your shots against fighters will be inside of 350 yards in the game. Inside of 400 your biggest problem will be lead timing since the round slows down so rapidly. Test this against drones offline. Inside of 400 your shots are mostly point and click. If you look at the 650 convergence you can see past 350 you will progresively be shooting your rounds higher at distance with an ever expanding dispersion cone. There was a reason the MK108 was designed to shoot bombers in real life.
Setting your convergence to 150 is the closest you will get to reality.
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290TS Auto level places the K4 in the equavlent of jack stands engine leveled to zero.
Drop - Impact point of tater below the gunsight center point at the given distance.
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K4 MK108 at 150 Convergence.
Range.........Drop
100yd........(-10in)
150yd........(0.0)
250yd........(0.0)
350yd........(-3ft)
450yd........(-8ft)
550yd........(-16ft)
650yd........(-30ft)
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K4 MK108 at 250 Convergence.
Range........Drop
100yd........(-10in)
150yd........(-5in)
250yd........(0.0)
350yd........(-2ft)
450yd........(-6.5ft)
550yd........(-14.5ft)
650yd........(-28.75ft)
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Bf109-K4 -- Conv MK108 350 yards
Target-----Drop
100-------(+1.8in)
150-------(+5in)
250-------(+9in)
350-------(0.0)
450-------(-4.5ft)
550-------(-12.5ft)
650-------(-27ft)
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K4 MK108 at 650 Convergence.
Range.........Drop
100yd........(+2ft)
150yd........(+4ft)
250yd........(+6.75ft)
350yd........(+7ft)
450yd........(+5ft)
550yd........(+1.5ft)
650yd........(-9.5ft)
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K4 real world tater numbers based on cannon locked into the engine line shooting from zero.
All values in the "Drop" column are inches and feet below the engine "0" centerline or hollow ariscrew shaft.
Gunsight line of sight intersects the 400m impact point at (-12ft).
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Range(M)..m\sec...ToF......Drop......Disp......RH.Spin.Drift
0...............500.......0.. .. .....0.........0...........0
50.............486....(.10s)...(-2in).....###.......(1.7in)
100...........472....(.21s)...(-8in).....(6.8ft)...(3.7in)
150...........459....(.31s)...(-1.5ft)...###.......(5.9in)
200...........446....(.42s)...(-2.7ft)...(14.0ft)..(8.4in)
250...........434....(.54s)...(-4.4ft)...###.......(11.0in)
300...........422....(.63s)...(-6.5ft)...(21.9ft)..(1.1ft)
350...........411....(.77s)...(-9.0ft)...###.......(1.3ft)
400...........400....(.90s)...(-12.0ft)..(30.2ft)..(1.6ft)<--- Revi LoS intersects here.
425.......................... ............................. ..(1.7ft)
450...........390....(1.02s)..(-15.5ft)..###.......######
500...........379....(1.15s)..(-19.6ft)..(39.2ft)..######
525.......................... ............................. ..(2.25ft)
550...........370....(1.29s)..(-24.0ft)..###.......######
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I think i took up the Jak9T only a handful of times, my experience with it is very short.
...
the plane itself is slow and is a poor turnfighter. I would say, practice a lot in the DA til youre confident.
I don't know, I think you may just be a bit outside of your comfort zone with the Yak 9T if you're as used to 109's as you are, spend a little more time in it and I think you'll see it's a nice bird.... the 9U's slightly 'top heavy' sister that may not be as light on her feet on the dance floor but can bring the happy once you get to her "sweet spot" :) .
The 9T is only slightly slower than the 9U, and the 9u is a race horse, and turns pretty well as long as you keep your -e up.... but isn't bad slow either. I'm a mediocre pilot at best, but I was able to make LA's, ponies, and 109G's overshoot and kill them on the reverses, the LA being a LA5 that took a tater after 3 scissors. Flaps were full out by that point.
35 taters is a very limited load, but it's good for 5-6 kills on 1 sortie with no rearm if you can resist the urge to spray.
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Yups, if you can master it, good for you and im just happyer. My brain is pretty simple, only can think in the 109's dimensions, so dont take deep consequences.
With a perfect pilot, the gun alone can make this plane very dangerous. More power for you to master it!
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