Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Ripsnort on June 18, 2012, 12:09:43 PM

Title: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Ripsnort on June 18, 2012, 12:09:43 PM
The offer is still open to Pyro, 10 years later, to send this 30 page pamphlet of the Northrop P-61 Black Widow for the purpose of modeling it for Aces High.
My FIL worked on them, as well as Twin Mustangs at the beginning of the Korean conflict.
This pamphlet is loaded with engineering dimensions to properly model a P-61.

Some pages scanned for your pleasure.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hnaCgFOA2kc/T99gd1XVOzI/AAAAAAAADxs/Cdi6HnTIIEg/s512/SCAN0135.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wKFwCOEGUng/T99geKzkC4I/AAAAAAAADx0/usbj3KqL9Ew/s512/SCAN0136.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Si4mrMndejQ/T99gdsOXgjI/AAAAAAAADxw/fM0mLSyJdBc/s512/SCAN0137.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6YGliAGPN9c/T99gfUvvkGI/AAAAAAAADyM/rPKkbkwLUQ0/s512/SCAN0138.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U6fgYQcaUiM/T99gfEftg_I/AAAAAAAADyE/pC4024CBHVk/s640/SCAN0139.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-opvNwlIwvyQ/T99gftHjlqI/AAAAAAAADyQ/bwLdI8D-M1k/s512/SCAN0140.JPG)
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: tunnelrat on June 18, 2012, 12:21:37 PM
She must be cold.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: TylerMac on June 20, 2012, 11:32:05 AM
Interesting articles there! Thanks!  :rock
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Karnak on June 20, 2012, 11:39:58 AM
The P-61B would be a nice and fun addition to the game.  While it would have certain surprising capabilities I don't think it would be as potent as a lot of people fear.  It isn't that fast and its power to weight ratio isn't particularly good either.

My guess is that it would mostly end up being used like the Bf110G-2 due to its ordnance capacity and guns.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Guppy35 on June 20, 2012, 12:54:03 PM
Beaufighter first  :aok
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Butcher on June 20, 2012, 01:10:56 PM
Beaufighter first  :aok

agreed since we got the Me410 now
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Reaper90 on June 21, 2012, 01:24:51 PM
Westland Whirlwind first  :aok

Fixed that for ya!  :aok
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: HighTone on June 21, 2012, 04:23:02 PM
Ki-45 and Ki-102 first  :aok


Re-fixed it for ya  :cheers:
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on June 22, 2012, 01:13:04 AM
Hey guys, my only argument against adding the P-61 is that it was MAINLY and for the most part exclusively used in a night fighter role. And seeing that we really don't have a "Night" in the normal sense, I believe that there are still quite a few other aircraft that should be added first, including but not limited to:

Beaufighter
He-111
Yak-3
Pe-2
Do-17
Dewoitine D.520

I cannot think right now being late and all, lol, but there are others and Im sure many of you could take this list further. Also, if and when we can get another map or 2 we could also include more Armored vehicles such as the IS series of Soviet Heavy Tanks, the Pershing, the Crusader, etc. Just thoughts.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Tracerfi on June 22, 2012, 06:50:47 AM
She must be cold.

yes
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Shuffler on June 22, 2012, 02:59:19 PM
Hey guys, my only argument against adding the P-61 is that it was MAINLY and for the most part exclusively used in a night fighter role. And seeing that we really don't have a "Night" in the normal sense, I believe that there are still quite a few other aircraft that should be added first, including but not limited to:

Beaufighter
He-111
Yak-3
Pe-2
Do-17
Dewoitine D.520

I cannot think right now being late and all, lol, but there are others and Im sure many of you could take this list further. Also, if and when we can get another map or 2 we could also include more Armored vehicles such as the IS series of Soviet Heavy Tanks, the Pershing, the Crusader, etc. Just thoughts.

It was the first plane designed from the ground up for a night interceptor roll. When it made it into action most of the night intrusions had ceased. The 61s were then used successfully in the daytime ground attack roll.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Volron on June 22, 2012, 03:06:55 PM
The thing is, when it was used in the daylight role, Allies practically had complete air superiority.  I don't think it would have been as successful if air was highly contested as it is in the MA's.  I'm definitely not against the P-61, and in fact would hope that Darkly Dangerous is skinned right away when it becomes available. :D :x
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on June 22, 2012, 03:20:50 PM
It was the first plane designed from the ground up for a night interceptor roll. When it made it into action most of the night intrusions had ceased. The 61s were then used successfully in the daytime ground attack roll.

Thanks Shuff, I was not aware of that. I guess my what I was trying to say/ask was, do we all think that there are other more deserving aircraft that should be added before the "late, late" war birds...?
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Nathan60 on June 22, 2012, 03:53:43 PM
While I'd love to see this a/c  how would it get along in the MA with no night?
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Karnak on June 22, 2012, 04:38:39 PM
While I'd love to see this a/c  how would it get along in the MA with no night?
Same as during the war, mostly as a strike aircraft.  Night-fighters aren't vampires, they don't magically lose their ability to operate when the sun comes up.

I am aware of quite a bit of daylight usage of the P-61s and Mosquito Mk 30s because there wasn't enough left for them to do at night.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Nathan60 on June 22, 2012, 05:29:02 PM
Same as during the war, mostly as a strike aircraft.  Night-fighters aren't vampires, they don't magically lose their ability to operate when the sun comes up.

I am aware of quite a bit of daylight usage of the P-61s and Mosquito Mk 30s because there wasn't enough left for them to do at night.

Im not saying they would lose the ability I'm asking if it's capabilities are good enough that it wont end up as  a hanger queen after a cpl weeks. I know its not a Spixteen but how does it compare to other aircraft in the role that it would be used in AH?
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Karnak on June 22, 2012, 05:35:06 PM
Im not saying they would lose the ability I'm asking if it's capabilities are good enough that it wont end up as  a hanger queen after a cpl weeks. I know its not a Spixteen but how does it compare to other aircraft in the role that it would be used in AH?
It might need to be perked to control its overuse as a strike aircraft would be my guess.

Twin engined aircraft handle their ordnance better than single engined aircraft and it was capable of carrying 6,400lbs of bombs while still having the four 20mm cannon in the belly.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Slash27 on June 23, 2012, 04:31:55 AM
Im not saying they would lose the ability I'm asking if it's capabilities are good enough that it wont end up as  a hanger queen after a cpl weeks. I know its not a Spixteen but how does it compare to other aircraft in the role that it would be used in AH?

"Despite its size, the Black Widow was remarkably maneuverable"

"the P-61 was exceptionally maneuverable for such a large plane "

"the P-61 was determined to be highly manoeuvrable- more so than any other USAAF fighter. It could have been a major 'player' as a day fighter too"

Like Karnak pointed out. She served as a ground attack aircraft as well with ability to carry various rockets, bombs, napalm, plus drop tanks to give her great range. She was one of the best armed U.S.fighters ( maybe the best) with the 4 fuselage mounted 20 mm cannons and 4 .50 cal mgs. Plus she's drop dead gorgeous. Not the traits of a hangar queen.

Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Rich52 on June 23, 2012, 08:53:23 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Hazard69 on June 26, 2012, 10:57:47 AM
i wouldn't call that thing drop dead gorgeous........thats one ugly mug shes got..........but then again seeing how the tail end does somewhat resemble the P38s twinboom setup....meh, Id give it a try.... :lol
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: nrshida on June 26, 2012, 01:35:23 PM
Fixed that for ya!  :aok

 :rock :aok
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: mthrockmor on June 26, 2012, 02:26:58 PM
If I had the choice of the Swedish Biking team or adding this beaut to the line-up....hands down the P-61. I'm in love plus my wife would understand the plane, not the bikinis.

Back on focus now...Skuzzy and HiTech, first you tease us with the Me-410 and give us the Storch. How else can we addicts be tortured? Of course we aren't going anywhere but seriousl?! What next, the Russian version of the C-47 with a miniature bomb bay and single pop-gun on top. Just do me a solid for Christmas...first the Me-410 then at least pretend like the P-61 is on deck. With that manual it should be half-way completed.

Boo

PS On a serious note, how much does it cost HiTech to develop a new plane or tank?
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Slash27 on July 05, 2012, 03:11:25 AM
i wouldn't call that thing drop dead gorgeous........thats one ugly mug shes got..........but then again seeing how the tail end does somewhat resemble the P38s twinboom setup....meh, Id give it a try.... :lol
Maybe I've turned in to a chubby chaser. :D I love everything about her.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: MiloMorai on July 05, 2012, 09:53:16 AM
It was my understanding that the ground attack was night interdiction missions.

I know it is Osprey but their Combat Aircraft #8 is on P-61 units,
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Slash27 on July 05, 2012, 05:38:56 PM
It was my understanding that the ground attack was night interdiction missions.

I know it is Osprey but their Combat Aircraft #8 is on P-61 units,
I'll have to go look but I know they did daylight missions in the CBI. Not sure to what extent or if any in the other theaters.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: STEELE on July 06, 2012, 03:55:23 AM
If I had the choice of the Swedish Biking team  

PS On a serious note, how much does it cost HiTech to develop a new plane or tank?
How are the Swedes doing in Tour de France?    :angel:

2)  I'll pitch in a case of Johnny Walker for 190 A9   :D
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Slash27 on July 08, 2012, 11:56:07 PM
It was my understanding that the ground attack was night interdiction missions.

I know it is Osprey but their Combat Aircraft #8 is on P-61 units,
The book "Combat Chronicles of the Black Widow" makes mention of several daylight missons from routine patrols, flying top cover for PT boats as well as ground attack missons and more. It's actually by the same author as Osprey #8.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: JVboob on July 10, 2012, 11:54:08 PM
Hey guys, my only argument against adding the P-61 is that it was MAINLY and for the most part exclusively used in a night fighter role. And seeing that we really don't have a "Night" in the normal sense, I believe that there are still quite a few other aircraft that should be added first, including but not limited to:

Beaufighter
He-111
Yak-3
Pe-2
Do-17
Dewoitine D.520

I cannot think right now being late and all, lol, but there are others and Im sure many of you could take this list further. Also, if and when we can get another map or 2 we could also include more Armored vehicles such as the IS series of Soviet Heavy Tanks, the Pershing, the Crusader, etc. Just thoughts.

my responce to this...the lancaster was MAINLY and for the most part exclusively used in a night fighter role. there for the whole night time thing is irrelevent... plus the accounts of it used for ground attack it would be effective as a town killer for NOE runs you could finally have an all american line up for a NOE jabo strike and not have to throw in 110s or mossies for the town killers!

and dont under estimate how it would handle its self in the MAs crowded skies. when working in wing pairs you can effectively use A20s, 110s, mossies, or any big heavy fighter/attack aircraft
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 11, 2012, 02:40:19 AM
my responce to this...the lancaster was MAINLY and for the most part exclusively used in a night fighter role. there for the whole night time thing is irrelevent... plus the accounts of it used for ground attack it would be effective as a town killer for NOE runs you could finally have an all american line up for a NOE jabo strike and not have to throw in 110s or mossies for the town killers!

and dont under estimate how it would handle its self in the MAs crowded skies. when working in wing pairs you can effectively use A20s, 110s, mossies, or any big heavy fighter/attack aircraft

The Lancaster was a bomber, not a night fighter nor was it designed to be a night bomber. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Karnak on July 11, 2012, 03:21:18 AM
P-38Ls and P-47D-40s/P-47Ns are better town killers than Mossies are as it is, so if you want to do all American missions you're all set already.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: MiloMorai on July 11, 2012, 06:21:57 AM
A more appropriate late war a/c would be the A-26.

(http://www.magellanmodels.com/images/products/72681.jpg)
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Tracerfi on July 11, 2012, 11:43:03 AM
A more appropriate late war a/c would be the A-26.

(http://www.magellanmodels.com/images/products/72681.jpg)
+1
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Slash27 on July 11, 2012, 05:03:12 PM
A more appropriate late war a/c would be the A-26.

(http://www.magellanmodels.com/images/products/72681.jpg)
"appropriate" for what?
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: MiloMorai on July 11, 2012, 07:09:38 PM
"appropriate" for what?

You have to ask? Dropping nasty iron things that go boom naturally. :x
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Slash27 on July 14, 2012, 12:54:09 AM
You have to ask? Dropping nasty iron things that go boom naturally. :x
Well the 61 is going to dogfight much better so I would have to go with her. But we should get both and do a long term in game study of them.
Title: Re: Darkly Dangerous
Post by: Karnak on July 14, 2012, 08:30:38 AM
You have to ask? Dropping nasty iron things that go boom naturally. :x
Then how could it be more appropriate?  It would be misused as a fighter and this thread is about a fighter.