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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: theblitz on June 21, 2012, 11:21:36 PM

Title: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: theblitz on June 21, 2012, 11:21:36 PM
1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jinker.

2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?

3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?

4. Does the b25c have any role ?

5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs

I'm an excellent gunner but otherwise total n00b
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: mthrockmor on June 21, 2012, 11:45:19 PM
Great questions, that over a couple years I've wondered yet never asked. I'll be interested to read the answers.

Sounds like you are buff magnet in the making. Someone headed for 91st or something. <S>

Boo
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: theblitz on June 21, 2012, 11:47:51 PM
I cannot fly fighters at all. Unless I'm intercepting bombers, then I'm okay (my knowledge of buff vs int fights goes both ways).
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Rolex on June 21, 2012, 11:47:55 PM
Some quick answers (in red):

1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jinker.

.50 cal guns are .50 caliber guns. They aren't better in one plane than the other. The rounds from all three a/c in a formation converge at 500 yards, so keep that in mind.

2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?

Dropping the HQ only takes out radar for a country, it doesn't end the war. It takes over 35,000 lbs. of ord to destroy the single HQ building, so it's virtually impossible for a single formation of Lancasters to have all bombs hit that building.

3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?

No, sorry. You're going to explode and die soon. You can bail, though.

4. Does the b25c have any role ?

All planes can be fun to fly, if you have the right attitude. Try to hit your target and return safely. It's a good plane to build perks, perhaps?

5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs

Choose your target and check out the clipboard map layout of that target (right click on map to select) then plan your route accordingly. Full power during climb out. You can sit in front gun, then select F3 outside view and turn using rudder only during climb out on autopilot. You can check all around you using top hat views. I suggest reducing rpm a little as you approach your bomb run. Your plane will continue to accelerate for a very long time otherwise. A constant speed in important for bomb sight calibration accuracy.

There are charts in the link in my signature to find out the damage required to destroy all targets in the game.

The important thing to do is to have fun...  :D

I'm an excellent gunner but otherwise total n00b
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: thndregg on June 22, 2012, 12:05:36 AM
1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jinker.

2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?

3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?

4. Does the b25c have any role ?

5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs

I'm an excellent gunner but otherwise total n00b

One of the best things to do is get with a trainer, or tune in on a bomb group's channel to learn all the various aspects. I'm a piss-poor fighter pilot myself, but I dearly love bombers, especially B17's. You'll learn. Just be persistent and patient.  :)
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: theblitz on June 22, 2012, 12:08:27 AM
True but 4 50s is better than 2 and if the 17 actually is more durable, well, it's better against fighters unless the better turrets of the 24 out weigh this. The 26 also has no ball but 5 pilot 50s...devastating for head on.
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: BaldEagl on June 22, 2012, 12:10:26 AM
1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jinker.

The 24 is much more prone to engine fires.  It's a tradeoff between speed (26), ruggedness (17) and ord load (24).

2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?

No.  It doesn't carry enough ord.

3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?

Bail out

4. Does the b25c have any role ?

Don't know.  Don't fly it.

5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs

Totally depends on the target.

I'm an excellent gunner but otherwise total n00b
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Soulyss on June 22, 2012, 12:26:48 AM
Historically, the 17 was stronger structurely and could probably take more punishment.  The low wing configuration however limited the size of the bomb bay, the 24 could carry more bombs and could fly further than the 17.  Pilot workload was higher in the 24 as well.
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Butcher on June 22, 2012, 01:08:16 AM
1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jinker.

B24s catch fire far to easily, if you get hit on the wings then you are probably on fire, 26s have so many blind spots you simply have to know where to hit them to wreck a formation. 

2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?
yep, assuming the pilot knows what he is doing.

3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?
explode and up a new cartoon plane 15 seconds later

4. Does the b25c have any role ?
Did anyone lose a shade on aisle 4? Blue light special...

5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs
First I was a shade, I was petrified, I couldn't live without a shade by my side, I spent so many nights, thinking how you did me wrong!
I'm an excellent gunner but otherwise total n00b
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: JTs on June 22, 2012, 01:14:03 AM
be straight and level by the time you reach the dar circle. for fh, bh, or vh set salvo for 3 everything else set salvo for 1. calibrate hold y key down for a count of 15 to 20. hit u key and kill your target. if you fly knight look for cody in the morning or afternoon. in the evening find 999000.
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: TheMercinary60 on June 22, 2012, 01:16:25 AM
personally, ill take a 17 over a 24 any day, just on maneuverability alone, if you know how to handle it you can just about treat it like a fighter

besides that, the rear guns on a 24 have very poor visibility in the form of a bar that can block you from seeing someone coming in on you from a shallow dive
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Fish42 on June 22, 2012, 01:33:55 AM
3 Lancs with 14x 1000bls bomb load can and do take out HQs. takes 2 passes with 7 bombs in each as all have to hit directly on the HQ. But it only takes down their radar for between 3 hours - 5 mins depending on how quickly they resupply it.

NOEd lancs to HQs many times just for fun, then waited nearby and try and shot down their C47s as they run to repair it
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: SEseph on June 22, 2012, 08:13:15 AM
3 Lancs with 14x 1000bls bomb load can and do take out HQs. takes 2 passes with 7 bombs in each as all have to hit directly on the HQ. But it only takes down their radar for between 3 hours - 5 mins depending on how quickly they resupply it.

NOEd lancs to HQs many times just for fun, then waited nearby and try and shot down their C47s as they run to repair it


yep, done this one successfully. Takes practice and good timing, but is doable.

I'd quote it, but it's in red text in a quote of it's own. The HQ needs more than 35k lbs for destruction. It takes 37k lbs according to the HTC website (http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Flight-Sim-Information/aces-high-help-gameplay.html) or over 42k lbs if you ask in the MA.
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Trukk on June 22, 2012, 09:58:06 AM
1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jink
The B-17 is much more survivable than the B-24, the Liberator flames up very easily (too easily IMO).  So if you want to make it home, take B-17s over B-24s.  For tactical, one pass, bombing, the B-26 is probably most effective.  It doesn't have the wow factor that the big bombers do but it's fast and tough.

2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?
It doesn't "end the war", but you can take down radar.

3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?
Bail

4. Does the b25c have any role?
Not really, it's too bad HTC didn't model the most numerous version of the Mitchell the B-25J.  The 3D model is beautiful but in the MA the B-25C is a sitting duck.

5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs?
This really depends on how you play Aces High.  Is your focus on the game (ie winning the map) or the simulation (trying to fly and survive as a bomber pilot). For an example of the latter see: 17th visual AAR (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,334891.msg4406150.html#msg4406150)
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Zoney on June 22, 2012, 10:24:46 AM
theblitz, welcome to the insanity !  I hope to meet (find) you at high alt in your bombers very soon.  Look for the P47N.



Look up.




No farther......................



farther...................

a little more..................




there I am,  :airplane:

 :salute



Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: earl1937 on June 22, 2012, 03:06:22 PM
 
Some quick answers (in red):

:noid Sorry Charlie, CONVERG POINT IN 17 IS 650 YARDS, ran a bunch of tests myself in training arena, have pictures of targets if u want to see them!
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: hitech on June 22, 2012, 03:33:59 PM
#define _GUNNER_CONVERANCE maYARD(500)

Cut and paste from the code .

But the inflight convergence point relative to the plane can change based its speed and direction of shooting do to drag on the bullets.

HiTech

Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: tunnelrat on June 22, 2012, 03:38:59 PM
#define _GUNNER_CONVERANCE maYARD(500)

Cut and paste from the code .

But the inflight convergence point relative to the plane can change based its speed and direction of shooting do to drag on the bullets.

HiTech

Hot DAMN!

<S>
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Rich52 on June 22, 2012, 05:25:16 PM
Quote
1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jinker.


The 17 doesnt flame as much but the 24 is a bit faster. Also the 24 has the edge carrying 1,000 pounders.

Quote
2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?

Quote
3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?
Quote
4. Does the b25c have any role ?
Ever see the beginning of "Catch 22"? Of course it has a role and is a great mission bomber. Many of the higher eny bombers can also be the most effective, like the IJA KI-67, which is a great raider and fighter killer.

Quote
5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs
Its often advantageous to take an offset path to your target and not fly bombers with the conga line of other planes, most of all fighters. It aids you in getting at least one pass on the target before a fighter can intercept. Flying a zigzag rout also gives you more time to build altitude. Any bomber formation can kill any hangar with a salvo of 2 500lb bombs. Its safer to release 3 however, or even 4, and if you do so loose them right when the crosshairs cross the front of your target due to the time lapse of multiple bombs being released. Runs? As many as necessary. Try to setup the flight path of your runs with the targets you want to take out. Use the maps for this.

Quote
I'm an excellent gunner but otherwise total n00b
You can overcome the disadvantage of the bombers without the ball gunner by setting your speed climb to a much lower speed then your going and then hitting ALT/X when a fighter is climbing up your belly. The bomber climbs steeply getting your tail gunner a shot much sooner then he would and it gives the attacker less of a profile to shoot at. I have F3 view, Alt/X speed climb, and look down all mapped on my controllers bomber profile. In a B26, Betty, or KI-67 Im watching the attacker in f3/down/rear gunner and when he starts climbing under me I'll hit the Alt/X button usually already set for 1 40 climb speed. Just make sure you release Alt/X before you stall.

Enjoy. The game has great bombers. I started off flying bombers all the time and its a great way to begin with AH
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Ten60 on June 22, 2012, 06:24:02 PM
1. B17 vs B24? I've noticed the 24 can carry a bit more bombs but the 17 seems like it can take more punishment. I can't tell for sure though. The 24's turrets have better angles too but the 17 has devastating frontal power. Interestingly, one could maybe argue the 26 is best because it's faster (less damage per sortie but more sorties). It's guns aren't quite as good but still pretty tough, a much better jinker.

2. Is it true a Lanc could sneak through with 14k and end the war by hitting the HQ?

3. If you're on fire, is there anything you can do?

4. Does the b25c have any role ?

5. What does a good buff bombardier do on a run (or runs)? Like what speed, direction, how many bombs per target, how many runs

I'm an excellent gunner but otherwise total n00b
1.  B24 has certain things that it's suited for (hangers) and B17 has others (city/town). Lancs are best!!
2.  No matter what anyone says, I've dropped HQ solo in Lancs on one pass with the 14/1k package.  And I have the film to prove it.  Landed it too!
3.  Nope. Fire is out of our control.
4.  No clue lol. Never flown it.
5.  Climb up high, always.  Level about 15 miles away from your target.  If you are dropping several hangers pre plan the direction so you can hit two per pass.  You gotta learn what targets take what ords.  Hangers, 2k per plane (6k total). Town buildings...  Depends on how you pickle it.  If you want to be a good bomber, learn your plane in the TA. Then do lots of sorties.  Bombing=Fun!!!
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: theblitz on June 22, 2012, 07:23:21 PM
One crazy thing I like doing is dropping all my bombs on the first run at 1 or 2 targets and fly around at 8k feet in a 17 and just focus on fighter kills
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: thndregg on June 22, 2012, 08:22:52 PM
One crazy thing I like doing is dropping all my bombs on the first run at 1 or 2 targets and fly around at 8k feet in a 17 and just focus on fighter kills

Just wait until you get in on a high alt large mission. Even at 20+K there's a hell of a fight brewing. The fun of it is the uncertainty of how the mission will go. ;) So many dynamics & variables involved, and the fights are a blast.  :aok
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: caldera on June 22, 2012, 08:44:58 PM
#define _GUNNER_CONVERANCE maYARD(500)

Cut and paste from the code .

But the inflight convergence point relative to the plane can change based its speed and direction of shooting do to drag on the bullets.

HiTech



What are the coads that make the B-26 tail gun bulletproof and the B-29's paper mache'?  :neener:
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: theblitz on June 22, 2012, 08:52:43 PM
How's the b29 btw? My only experience with it is when my shot up b25c and a shot up drone shot one down months ago. It looks like a monster though. Can it take a lot of punishment?
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: Volron on June 22, 2012, 11:14:53 PM
The B-29 flames a bit easier than the B-24 I think.  Feels like it to me, both being in them and intercepting them.  Take a formation of them over a Capital, and you are VERY likely to lose 2 of them to the flak, especially if you make more than one pass.  Last time I took a set of 29's over a Capital, I lost 2 in my first pass to flak.  Both of them caught fire.  Another thing to note, their engines catch fire very easy.  This is from intercepting them that I know this, though I DID intercept in a 163.  But it seems that it really doesn't take much to set their engines on fire.  Some here have been lucky enough to find 29's while in something that doesn't have 30mm's, so they will have better information.

Another thing to note is that the bombsite on it is inaccurate.  Drops are off no matter altitude, though it does get a little better the lower you are, it's still off.  In any other bomber I can get to 30k, I can get laser precision when compared to the 29's bombsite.  This doesn't really bug me as I only use the 29 for hitting a Capital, or once in a blue moon, towns.  In a way, it's a good thing.  I think HiTech intended it for use against the Capital and towns. :aok
Title: Re: Buff tactics and Questions
Post by: theblitz on June 22, 2012, 11:45:39 PM
Interestingly I shot that 29 down by starting an engine fire. Funfact I guess