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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 28, 2012, 07:50:25 AM

Title: Buff gunners
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 28, 2012, 07:50:25 AM
I very rarely choose to fly buffs. And those few cases that I did I usually managed to get a kill or two per sortie - but not always.

On one sortie I droped 1x163 and 2x262 while flying very high over enemy HQ. It was intense but still pretty easy at that altitude.

I always had quite a respect on buff pilots shooting as they could drop me off the sky so easily and I had so much trouble just to get a couple of kills per sortie. Of course then I found out the button which makes ALL the buff gunners shoot at the same time. Untill that point I had been using just a single station  :rock
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: B4Buster on June 28, 2012, 07:57:48 AM
I very rarely choose to fly buffs. And those few cases that I did I usually managed to get a kill or two per sortie - but not always.

On one sortie I droped 1x163 and 2x262 while flying very high over enemy HQ. It was intense but still pretty easy at that altitude.

I always had quite a respect on buff pilots shooting as they could drop me off the sky so easily and I had so much trouble just to get a couple of kills per sortie. Of course then I found out the button which makes ALL the buff gunners shoot at the same time. Untill that point I had been using just a single station  :rock

It took me about two years to figure out that you could fire all guns that have LoS on a bandit. It definitely helps!
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Noir on June 28, 2012, 07:59:49 AM
buff gunning is easy mode
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: icepac on June 28, 2012, 08:08:50 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how those bombers fly over my manned field gun at D2000 and strafe my gun down with 9 bizzillion bullets firing straight down from every gun position.

I was wondering about what we see in game concerning seeing every gun in the buff firing straight down?

I understand that films show all guns firing, but I see this live in the arena well from some planes.

Next time I smash HQ, I will invite someone to gun down the resupplying C47s from the front gun while I pursue them.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: tunnelrat on June 28, 2012, 09:21:39 AM
buff gunning is easy mode

Against pilots who suck, I agree.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: danny76 on June 29, 2012, 02:25:11 AM
Against pilots who suck, I agree.


What have I done? :)
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: thndregg on June 29, 2012, 07:52:45 AM
buff gunning is easy mode

I respectfully disagree. The more shallow the approach of the enemy into the formation, the easier it is for us to track, lead, and kill. The more extreme the angle, the more difficult it becomes.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: tunnelrat on June 29, 2012, 09:40:44 AM
I respectfully disagree. The more shallow the approach of the enemy into the formation, the easier it is for us to track, lead, and kill. The more extreme the angle, the more difficult it becomes.

This.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 29, 2012, 11:55:49 AM
I respectfully disagree. The more shallow the approach of the enemy into the formation, the easier it is for us to track, lead, and kill. The more extreme the angle, the more difficult it becomes.

With single station I agree. With all gunners aiming at 1 spot - it's easymode. A 5 year old can score kills gunning buffs.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: tunnelrat on June 29, 2012, 12:18:05 PM
With single station I agree. With all gunners aiming at 1 spot - it's easymode. A 5 year old can score kills gunning buffs.

Except for the part where you, as a fighter pilot, can choose to stay out of firing arcs which makes "all gunners aiming at one spot" (which is a very small spot indeed, with convergence) a moot point.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Lusche on June 29, 2012, 12:25:58 PM
With single station I agree. With all gunners aiming at 1 spot - it's easymode. A 5 year old can score kills gunning buffs.


And a 5 year old can kill buffs in a fighter.... when observing a few very simple principles even without getting shot in return ;)

But even with the majority of fighters insisting on the sucidal 6 c'clock approach, encounters of buffs and fighters don't end favorably for the "easymode" buffs most of the time...
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: titanic3 on June 29, 2012, 12:29:27 PM
It's silly to attack B17 or B24 or B29 alone. Pure and utter suicide unless you're a god at aiming and manage to hit them at 400 mph+ in a dive and kill at least one in one pass.

The time it takes to set up an attack and reset is better spent looking for easier targets.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Zoney on June 29, 2012, 12:33:27 PM
With single station I agree. With all gunners aiming at 1 spot - it's easymode. A 5 year old can score kills gunning buffs.

Sounds like a challenge to me.  I accept.  You in a set of buffs, me in a P47.  I'll kill all 3 of yours and then fly away.  Ultimately I'd like to kill all 3 without even 1 ping on me, but no guarantees.  When you wanna do this ?

Not giving you a hard time dude but it's easy mode against easy pilots.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: tunnelrat on June 29, 2012, 12:34:32 PM
Sounds like a challenge to me.  I accept.  You in a set of buffs, me in a P47.  I'll kill all 3 of yours and then fly away.  Ultimately I'd like to kill all 3 without even 1 ping on me, but no guarantees.  When you wanna do this ?

Not giving you a hard time dude but it's easy mode against easy pilots.

I'll bet a months sub that Zoney wins.

Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Zoney on June 29, 2012, 12:39:38 PM
I'll bet a months sub that Zoney wins.



I liked you on your first day <S>
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Wiley on June 29, 2012, 12:58:23 PM
It's silly to attack B17 or B24 or B29 alone. Pure and utter suicide unless you're a god at aiming and manage to hit them at 400 mph+ in a dive and kill at least one in one pass.

I disagree that it takes 'godly' aim.  A quad engine plane is a BIG target.  Even the wingroot is relatively huge.  When Z and I are buff hunting, we are pretty much expecting to kill a plane on each pass.  If we're in something like a 110 or other heavy cannon bird, we'll often try for a twofer or even a kill on all 3 at once, but a fair bit has to go right for that to happen.

Quote
The time it takes to set up an attack and reset is better spent looking for easier targets.

That's the key.  The reason many people are easy meat for buffs is they don't take the time to set up properly.  If you set up right, the target is huge and your risk is low.  You're right in that it takes time to do it properly though.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: tunnelrat on June 29, 2012, 01:29:51 PM
The one thing that I think buffs have going for them (assuming they aren't facing a 30mm+ or quad 20mm armed bird) is that the risk of a wildcard golden BB hit is much higher for the fighter than it is for the bomber. 

Oiling a 190 is almost a given.

On the other hand, I have sawed away at them with good convergence hits and not even noticeably damaged them.

Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 29, 2012, 01:47:15 PM
Sounds like a challenge to me.  I accept.  You in a set of buffs, me in a P47.  I'll kill all 3 of yours and then fly away.  Ultimately I'd like to kill all 3 without even 1 ping on me, but no guarantees.  When you wanna do this ?

Not giving you a hard time dude but it's easy mode against easy pilots.

If I still had an account or flew actively for the past 5-6 years I'd take you on that challenge any day now that I know where to fire all of the guns :) And that's with single digit hours of experience behind a buff gun.

Anyone with some experience like 99900 is a flying deathstar.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Wiley on June 29, 2012, 01:57:15 PM
If I still had an account or flew actively for the past 5-6 years I'd take you on that challenge any day now that I know where to fire all of the guns :) And that's with single digit hours of experience behind a buff gun.

Anyone with some experience like 99900 is a flying deathstar.

Numbers is definitely a handful, I'd guesstimate he and I are about 50/50 against one another, and Z's head and shoulders above me when it comes to the 'not getting shot' part. :)

But yeah, buff gunnery definitely gets easier when you discover the 'fire all' button.  The day I discovered that was how it worked was the day I changed my second stage trigger on my X-52 to 'fire all' instead of 'fire cannon'.

Tunnelrat- When you're 'sawing away at them', are you shooting from an angle, or within say, 20 degrees of dead 12/6?  I find it's much easier to do damage on them from a 90 degree angle for some reason.  Whether it's top, bottom, or sides I think it has something to do with more of the bullets in the burst getting onto the bigger target it presents, even at convergence.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Shuffler on June 29, 2012, 04:29:48 PM
If you have trouble killing buffs you need some pointers and a bit of stick time. :D
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Lusche on June 29, 2012, 05:23:38 PM
Anyone with some experience like 99900 is a flying deathstar.

Now there I went LOL  :D

Seriously, "anyone with some experience like" and then naming one of the players with most stick time in heavy bombers?

I have to agree... anybody can be deadly in buff guns with literally years of practice ;)
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Butcher on June 29, 2012, 05:29:16 PM
999000 seen orbiting some rebel moon:
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/death-star-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: 999000 on June 30, 2012, 03:55:39 AM
Butcher you crack me up Sir!!!!!!!!!!!
999000 <S>
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Flossy on June 30, 2012, 04:23:55 AM
buff gunning is easy mode
I agree it is if the opponent makes a straight six approach - it's the high slashing attacks that I dread as I find them difficult to hit and know that I have a good chance of losing all three bombers, especially if two or more fighters are working together. I think I am getting better though....  ;)
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 30, 2012, 05:40:54 AM
Now there I went LOL  :D

Seriously, "anyone with some experience like" and then naming one of the players with most stick time in heavy bombers?

I have to agree... anybody can be deadly in buff guns with literally years of practice ;)

A noob can score kills easily in a buff but not in a fighter.

This is pretty much exactly the opposite of how it went in real life. In real life buffs were sitting ducks with little to no chance of surviving attacks without the help of escort fighters. So yes, buff guns are easymode in AH.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Noir on June 30, 2012, 06:00:16 AM
A noob can score kills easily in a buff but not in a fighter.

This is pretty much exactly the opposite of how it went in real life. In real life buffs were sitting ducks with little to no chance of surviving attacks without the help of escort fighters. So yes, buff guns are easymode in AH.

when I first started Aces high the only way I could land two kills was to up bombers, and we didn't have formations then...
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Lusche on June 30, 2012, 06:20:17 AM
In real life buffs were sitting ducks


So they are in AH, unless flying at 25k+ (which is rare) or in tightly packed formations

In all of 2011, the total fighter K/D vs heavy bombers (yes, the big fat fellows only) was 3.47. Guess what fighter vs fighter K/D is ;)
And this even though the majority of fighter pilots insist on attacking the buffs from 6 oclock.
Interestingly, there is no fighter type in AH that had a K/D vs heavy bombers of 1.0 or less.

And when I was in my "two weeks" I quickly found out that the quickest way to get any kills... was to hunt bombers. Fighters twist and turn, bombers fly steady, giving you the intitiative the ability to dictate the engagement. It's just that most pilots simply refuse to take an additional 3-5 minutes to get into a better attack position than the good ol plain 6 attack.


A noob can score kills easily in a buff but not in a fighter..

Why don't they do it then? :)
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Max on June 30, 2012, 07:19:37 AM
Of course then I found out the button which makes ALL the buff gunners shoot at the same time.

And this magic button is what? Sorry...only been here 10 years  :cry
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 30, 2012, 07:35:29 AM

So they are in AH, unless flying at 25k+ (which is rare) or in tightly packed formations

In all of 2011, the total fighter K/D vs heavy bombers (yes, the big fat fellows only) was 3.47. Guess what fighter vs fighter K/D is ;)
And this even though the majority of fighter pilots insist on attacking the buffs from 6 oclock.
Interestingly, there is no fighter type in AH that had a K/D vs heavy bombers of 1.0 or less.

And when I was in my "two weeks" I quickly found out that the quickest way to get any kills... was to hunt bombers. Fighters twist and turn, bombers fly steady, giving you the intitiative the ability to dictate the engagement. It's just that most pilots simply refuse to take an additional 3-5 minutes to get into a better attack position than the good ol plain 6 attack.

I'd fight 2 vs 1 fighters instead of B17 formation any day. Even if the buff won't kill you usually the magic bb finds its way to the radiator or oil. Buffs can run 100% throttle all day which is totally bogus - leading to historically false performance level speedwise, they can manouver aerobatics basically running around circles around fighters at high altitude etc. And then there are the guns... The probable reason buffs have horrible k/d ratios is that many people like me haven't discovered the 'fire all' key yet or up buffs on vulched fields when FHs are down in attempt of deathstarring for a second before being vulched down. Every upping of a formation creates 3 deaths for every noob that ups on a vulched field. Also suicide attacks against cvs are very common - or losing both drones to turning too fast near enemy ... When you think of it the k/d should be much worse.

Quote
Why don't they do it then? :)

Oh but they do. They rarely get to land them though. But still they get kills vs being clubbered down in fighters.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 30, 2012, 07:37:20 AM
And this magic button is what? Sorry...only been here 10 years  :cry

Go to your AH settings and keybindings, you'll find it there. The actual key varies with different key locales afaik.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: 999000 on June 30, 2012, 08:51:27 AM
Iever knew there was a fire all button!!!!!!!!! lmao!..I really ave to check this out to see if its for real!
999000 <S>
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Rich52 on June 30, 2012, 08:54:16 AM
Theres only a few really great Buff hunters left in the game. Against them it was really hard to survive, even with the "N" key.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: icepac on June 30, 2012, 10:20:47 AM
I've changed my buff hunting ways into hunting the escorts instead.

Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: BaldEagl on June 30, 2012, 10:38:51 AM
It's silly to attack B17 or B24 or B29 alone. Pure and utter suicide unless you're a god at aiming and manage to hit them at 400 mph+ in a dive and kill at least one in one pass.

The time it takes to set up an attack and reset is better spent looking for easier targets.

Nonsense.  Killing heavies alone is relatively easy done right and the reset takes under 30 seconds.  Even my fragile Spit XVI rarely gets shot down taking heavies out.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 30, 2012, 01:39:03 PM
Nonsense.  Killing heavies alone is relatively easy done right and the reset takes under 30 seconds.  Even my fragile Spit XVI rarely gets shot down taking heavies out.

If the buff has some alt you're going to waste the majority of your fuel and playing time 'setting up' for the attack. That's pretty much the opposite of what I consider fun and that's why when I see a buff I choose to fly around it.
Title: Re: Buff gunners
Post by: Chalenge on June 30, 2012, 02:04:09 PM
Quote
A fighter pilots doctrine:

1) The number one responsibility of a fighter pilot is to knock down the heavies.
2) No self-respecting fighter pilot willingly carries bombs unless forced to do so.

Just saying...