Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: monroekw on June 29, 2012, 03:21:35 PM
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I would like to upgtrade my monitor and would like to have opinions regarding Tv monitors versus computer monitors, 60hz versus 120 hz. Also would like to know what everyone is using.
Thanks
Currently using 24" LCD.
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the one thing you have to watch out for with a television is input lag that is higher than what normally exists. the amount will vary from model to model and brand to brand. one feature that minimizes input lag is "game mode", and not every brand has such a feature. 120hz refresh rate won't minimize input lag either. speaking of which, if you're considering 120hz, you will need to get a monitor/tv that has a dual link dvi connection and use a dual link dvi cable in order to use vsync and get 120fps. neither hdmi nor vga will do it.
are you wanting to gain more monitor real estate?
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the one thing you have to watch out for with a television is input lag that is higher than what normally exists. the amount will vary from model to model and brand to brand. one feature that minimizes input lag is "game mode", and not every brand has such a feature. 120hz refresh rate won't minimize input lag either. speaking of which, if you're considering 120hz, you will need to get a monitor/tv that has a dual link dvi connection and use a dual link dvi cable in order to use vsync and get 120fps. neither hdmi nor vga will do it.
are you wanting to gain more monitor real estate?
A 120hz tv is the worst possible for gaming. It actually displays only 60hz refresh but uses image processing to interpolate frames at double rate to produce a smoother viewing experience. This processing is the main source of input lag in televisions. 120hz monitor then again is a completely different story.
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A 120hz tv is the worst possible for gaming. It actually displays only 60hz refresh but uses image processing to interpolate frames at double rate to produce a smoother viewing experience. This processing is the main source of input lag in televisions. 120hz monitor then again is a completely different story.
you're a little behind the times ripley. native 120hz led panels are getting more common on televisions, mostly on upper tier lg, sony, toshiba and panasonic. haven't found one with a dual link dvi output...yet.
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Five years ago when my CRT monitor packed up I was forced to get an LCD one instead. While it has worked well for most things, I was always a bit disappointed with it in AH. The drop from 80 to 60hz wasn't really noticeable in itself but there was always a bit of input lag. When flying very low I could see the terrain give tiny jumps every few frames, it just wasn't smooth.
I have recently got a 120hz monitor and this has eliminated the input lag. Flying low now lets the terrain scroll smoothly. I could be kidding myself, but it seems a bit easier to track and shoot maneuvering opponents too.
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you're a little behind the times ripley. native 120hz led panels are getting more common on televisions, mostly on upper tier lg, sony, toshiba and panasonic. haven't found one with a dual link dvi output...yet.
AFAIK true 100-120hz panels are only found on TV's that are marked 3D-ready. Regular tvs still have 50-60hz panels (EU-US). You may be right about me being behind times though, I shopped for tvs last time 3 years ago. :)
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I have used both a 3d and non 3d 120hz tv's to play on. I switched away from the 3d unit as it had issues with 3d crosstalk and I was getting artifacts showing up,like it was trying to show a 3d picture even though it was set to 2d.
The 2d unit has a fast responce rate and works quit nicely although it still only does 60hz,it doesnt have dvi! Even in game mode it still only runs 60hz!
I had to run my 24in monitor for a couple days and all I can say is I'm glad I have the big screen back. The pixel size is larger and some may not like that but for me it's a great help as I can see dots at long range and it helps when a plane at D400 is rendered at about 2 inches instead of the 1/4in I'd see on my monitor.
I have poor vission so this has helped me greatly,I can sit far enough away that I can watch the screen without glasses.I even went so far as to have a pair of glasses made just for viewing the monitor but found if I moved too much 1 way or the other everything went out of focus.
YMMV.
:salute
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In reply to gyrene81......yes, I would like to go to at least 27" (from 24"). I am having a tough time seeing the planes in shooting range. I am hoping it will help.
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Get this and don't look back.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236091 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236091)
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Get this and don't look back.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236091 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236091)
damn you...I don't need another monitor but at that price, goodbye 24 inch, hello 27 inch.
ack-ack
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damn you...I don't need another monitor but at that price, goodbye 24 inch, hello 27 inch.
ack-ack
Just remember: "If you can't go Greek, Go TKE!" :devil
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Five years ago when my CRT monitor packed up I was forced to get an LCD one instead. While it has worked well for most things, I was always a bit disappointed with it in AH. The drop from 80 to 60hz wasn't really noticeable in itself but there was always a bit of input lag. When flying very low I could see the terrain give tiny jumps every few frames, it just wasn't smooth.
I have recently got a 120hz monitor and this has eliminated the input lag. Flying low now lets the terrain scroll smoothly. I could be kidding myself, but it seems a bit easier to track and shoot maneuvering opponents too.
Haven't seen any 120 hz monitors. Any examples?
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I use a BenQ XL2420T, but any monitor that can do 3D at 60hz should also be able to do 2D at 120hz. You will also need a fairly modern video card that can run 3D, something with a DVI-D or HDMI connection. To get 120hz I just loaded the monitor's 3D drivers and the 120hz option came up in Windows. As 3D tends to make me nauseous I didn't bother buying any 3D glasses, I just run it in 2D. You can get these sorts of 3D monitor in sizes up to 27 inch, but they all have a maximum resolution of 1920 x 1080 due to the bandwidth limits of the monitor cable. Another limitation is that these monitors use TN film displays. These are very fast but have more restricted viewing angles and less accurate colour reproduction than other display types.
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I have recently got a 120hz monitor and this has eliminated the input lag. Flying low now lets the terrain scroll smoothly. I could be kidding myself, but it seems a bit easier to track and shoot maneuvering opponents too.
Ok now we have to convince this man about the superior quality of slow IPS panels! :devil
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I use a BenQ XL2420T, but any monitor that can do 3D at 60hz should also be able to do 2D at 120hz. You will also need a fairly modern video card that can run 3D, something with a DVI-D or HDMI connection. To get 120hz I just loaded the monitor's 3D drivers and the 120hz option came up in Windows. As 3D tends to make me nauseous I didn't bother buying any 3D glasses, I just run it in 2D. You can get these sorts of 3D monitor in sizes up to 27 inch, but they all have a maximum resolution of 1920 x 1080 due to the bandwidth limits of the monitor cable. Another limitation is that these monitors use TN film displays. These are very fast but have more restricted viewing angles and less accurate colour reproduction than other display types.
almost any 3d monitor you buy today is 120hz. there are "passive 3d" monitors that run 60hz, haven't found one that will do 120hz in 2d. would be nice to find a 120hz that didn't have 3d crap on it.
the resolution isn't limited by cable bandwidth, but the refresh rate frequency is. hdmi, vga and standard dvi can't handle the bandwidth for 120hz but dual link dvi and display port can. the panel technology dictates the maximum resolution it can support from the video card. this 30 inch dell ips monitor has a native resolution of 2560 x 1600 at 60 Hz...
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&sku=224-9949 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=04&l=en&sku=224-9949)
In reply to gyrene81......yes, I would like to go to at least 27" (from 24"). I am having a tough time seeing the planes in shooting range. I am hoping it will help.
well, it may help but can't say to what extent. if you have really bad vision, a good 40-42 inch 1080p television may be the most economical way to go. might ask morfiend what he's using.
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the resolution isn't limited by cable bandwidth
Why would you say that? Single link DVI has much lower max resolution than dual link.
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Why would you say that? Single link DVI has much lower max resolution than dual link.
it's resolution times refresh rate isn't it? pretty sure it's the refresh rate that decreases as you increase resolution. single link dvi can run 3,840 × 2,400 at 17hz and dual link dvi can run 3,840 × 2,400 at 33hz. same resolution capacity, different refresh rate.
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well, it may help but can't say to what extent. if you have really bad vision, a good 40-42 inch 1080p television may be the most economical way to go. might ask morfiend what he's using.
I was using a 47in LG 3d LV5500 but like I said I was getting some 3d crosstalk,so I went to a 55in LG2d unit not sure of model # and too lazy to got to the mancave to check it.
I choose the LG's because of the response rate which was about the best,the picture is close to my sammy 24in monitor,however the pixel size is much larger. For me thats a good thing and I read with it as I dont need glasses. I guess it depends on many things and how far or close you sit makes a huge difference,IMHO.
:salute
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it's resolution times refresh rate isn't it? pretty sure it's the refresh rate that decreases as you increase resolution. single link dvi can run 3,840 × 2,400 at 17hz and dual link dvi can run 3,840 × 2,400 at 33hz. same resolution capacity, different refresh rate.
So resolution x refresh = bandwith. Both define the required link type. That's why I wondered why you say resolution is not bandwith dependent. Of course it's differently way bandwith dependent than in old analog interfaces.
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This is what i have been using and you cant beat the price at 299.99. And with best buys you have a 30 day return if its not for you.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23153%3B+-+40%22+Class+-+LCD+-+1080p+-+60Hz+-+HDTV/2620821.p?id=1218340598798&skuId=2620821
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Get this and don't look back.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236091 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236091)
I have one, got it for a great price but ran into a common problem with Asus monitors.
After a while, or while still under warranty they have a tendency to become very annoying. It seems to be an issue with one of the dry contacts for the buttons on the front of the monitor.
This is what happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlBamq7nbXI
This is very annoying because it covers up your cross hairs. I was able to 'fix' mine by opening the case and unplugging the control board behind the buttons.
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Five years ago when my CRT monitor packed up I was forced to get an LCD one instead. While it has worked well for most things, I was always a bit disappointed with it in AH. The drop from 80 to 60hz wasn't really noticeable in itself but there was always a bit of input lag. When flying very low I could see the terrain give tiny jumps every few frames, it just wasn't smooth.
I have recently got a 120hz monitor and this has eliminated the input lag. Flying low now lets the terrain scroll smoothly. I could be kidding myself, but it seems a bit easier to track and shoot maneuvering opponents too.
Are you sure that what you are calling input lag isnt actually your card exceeding its maximum horizontal frequency?
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Are you sure that what you are calling input lag isnt actually your card exceeding its maximum horizontal frequency?
Yep what he described was not input lag. Input lag is a constant delay in everything that displays on the screen. Mostly you can only notice it by having two different monitors side by side showing the same image, then you see the other lagging behind.
One easy example is to connect your laptop to a hd-tv and then compare mouse movement on laptop screen and on tv - the tv usually lags badly behind.
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I just spent a large portion of my day off doing research into 120Hz monitors, and decided to get the BenQ XL2420T. I thought seriously about a "Iiyama ProLite G2773HS", since it is larger and tested to be just as fast, but it doesn't support DisplayPort (very minor, I'm not going to use DisplayPort yet either) and its apparently only really sold in Europe, the US prices for it are very high.
One reason I'm upgrading is that my current monitor's screen is glossy, and I've recently moved and now my computer room receives a lot of light. The reflection are really bad. I need a matte-style screen again, so I used this as an excuse to upgrade.
As for the connector, the one you'll want for 120Hz computer monitors is a "Dual Link DVI" cable, more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface#Dual-link_DVI . Which isn't a big deal, the DVI cables I've gotten with my past two monitors were both Dual Link and I didn't even know it, nor did they technically require it. But it is required for 120Hz operation (or DisplayPort), HDMI isn't capable.
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don't underestimate the need for displayport, its a real plus for multi monitor installations and is becoming the standard on the computers, on top of being the best monitor connection right now.
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I have display ports on my HD6970 are they better than HDMI?
Monitor/TV discussions are very confusing.
I have a Samsung LCD TV and dont believe it has lag and if it does I don't want to investigate it and find it has.
FSP rates are in my opinion are a bit obessesional in game, I stopped looking at it and just looked how the game was playing and looking.
Could someone produce a list of say the top 5 good monitors/tv's so we have a focal point for investigation.
There are people in game who are more informed about this topic than myself.
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At equal resolutions HDMI = DesplayPort, its just that displayport supports more resolutions, more screens, and 3D gaming
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At equal resolutions HDMI = DesplayPort, its just that displayport supports more resolutions, more screens, and 3D gaming
more screens? explain please...
if you want to use 120hz or higher monitors (needed for 3d gaming) you need dual link dvi or display port...hdmi won't support higher than 60hz refresh rate right now.
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ATI cards only have 2 of the channels needed for DVI or HDMI screens (can't remember the name). As a result if you want to have 3 screens, one of them has to be DisplayPort, or DP to VGA, or active DP to DVI.
You can also have a screen in DisplayPort, and plug the others as slaves on the main screen, all in displayport (only seen the schematics). In any case DisplayPort is the less limited of all the current standards, and If I get new hardware I'll make sure its displayport.
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ah i get it. thanks Noir.