Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Pand on July 06, 2012, 11:19:56 PM
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In tonight's FSO, the Arena settings sent were:
Arena Settings:
- New Britain Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
--Air Starts at 24K
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
-Winds: Down Draft at 25K
As escort we climbed to 24,900 (since CAP was 25K) in our A6M3s to protect our Bettys that were around 23K. About 30 miles from target we were jumped by 10-12 F4U-1s at 30K+. They absolutely obliterated ALL the bombers in a matter of minutes and 99% of the escort. Apparently, there was no downdraft and the Corsairs could climb as high as they liked.
We love FSO and thank you all for the time you have put into arranging these fights; however, if there are rules in place that we are expected to follow, then we expect them to be followed by all.
It is obvious why the 25K CAP was designed into this FSO. If there are changes to the rules identified, then they should be communicated accordingly.
Thanks! <S>
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They absolutely obliterated ALL the bombers in a matter of minutes and 99% of the escort.
Thanks! <S>
Sounds like something topgun would do, but we also ran into Zekes at 26-28k, secondly there was NOTHING in the orders saying "ALT CAP limit" only winds down draft at 25k.
We also ran into zekes well above 25k, so clearly it was either misread or misunderstood.
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We did climb into the fight when we saw cons at 30K+.
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There was no downdraft in the design just like there were no airstarts. Here's what the setup says.
I don't know how some people are seeing airstarts and downdrafts. There was no set altitude CAP distance and time to target is your alt CAP.
Scoring:
All fighter aircraft and single engined bombers = 5 pts
All twin engined bombers=15 pts
Vehicle Hangar = 25 pts
Fighter Hangar = 25 pts
Bomber Hangar = 25 pts
All other base structures gun positions and strat buildings 2 pts each
Destroyers= 30 pts
Cruisers= 50 pts
Safe landing bonus 5 points per plane.
Arena Settings:
- New Britain Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
- Winds: Calm
I don't know if there's a glitch in the website or if some people see it because they haven't refreshed their browsers in a bit. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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I asked before event started and it was specifically said No alt CAP only down winds, usually they always tell you "ALT CAP LIMIT" specifically.
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I asked before event started and it was specifically said No alt CAP only down winds, usually they always tell you "ALT CAP LIMIT" specifically.
Who did you ask?
Plus if there is no alt cap why would there be down winds designed into it to force one?
I'm not asking to be a smartazz I'm asking so we can avoid this kind of thing in the future.
:salute
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Who did you ask?
Plus if there is no alt cap why would there be down winds designed into it to force one?
I'm not asking to be a smartazz I'm asking so we can avoid this kind of thing in the future.
:salute
Usually its written like this:
Downwinds at a certain alt - sometimes its been upwinds, it simply means in my opinion I guess - climbing over the target alt gives a huge drop in Speed/climbrate keeping planes centered around a certain alt, but not limited - upwinds draft has been used in the Africa Korp FSO's
ALT CAP Limit - usually is a set alt say 25k that has -127 mph down winds that forces any plane at 25,000ft downward to keep them at a designated ALT, although its more harsh to do it this way it is for certain to keep an ALT limit.
It's always been well written to explain if there is a simple downwind or Alt Cap limit.
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There was no downdraft in the design just like there were no airstarts. Here's what the setup says.
I don't know how some people are seeing airstarts and downdrafts. There was no set altitude CAP distance and time to target is your alt CAP.
Scoring:
All fighter aircraft and single engined bombers = 5 pts
All twin engined bombers=15 pts
Vehicle Hangar = 25 pts
Fighter Hangar = 25 pts
Bomber Hangar = 25 pts
All other base structures gun positions and strat buildings 2 pts each
Destroyers= 30 pts
Cruisers= 50 pts
Safe landing bonus 5 points per plane.
Arena Settings:
- New Britain Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
- Winds: Calm
I don't know if there's a glitch in the website or if some people see it because they haven't refreshed their browsers in a bit. Sorry for the inconvenience.
This is exactly what I see, plus my FSO orders itself says:
ARENA SETTINGS:
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Formations On
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
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I asked before event started and it was specifically said No alt CAP only down winds, usually they always tell you "ALT CAP LIMIT" specifically.
If anyone has flown into a 25K downdraft before, its a definite limiter.
I don't have anything against anyone climbing if the game allows them to. It had clearly indicated a 25K downdraft, and without it, basically created a turkey shoot for the Allies. This was not an enjoyable experience for us assigned escort duty on Axis.
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Usually its written like this:
Downwinds at a certain alt - sometimes its been upwinds, it simply means in my opinion I guess - climbing over the target alt gives a huge drop in Speed/climbrate keeping planes centered around a certain alt, but not limited - upwinds draft has been used in the Africa Korp FSO's
ALT CAP Limit - usually is a set alt say 25k that has -127 mph down winds that forces any plane at 25,000ft downward to keep them at a designated ALT, although its more harsh to do it this way it is for certain to keep an ALT limit.
It's always been well written to explain if there is a simple downwind or Alt Cap limit.
Who did you ask about alt cap and who told you there was a downdraft? That was my question. I know how it is written when there is a alt cap or down draft. Like I said there was no alt cap set. If some people are seeing it in the writeup and some are not we need to find out why so this kind of mixup doesn't happen again. Apparently the website seems to be showing two different things. If you don't mind and if you have time check out the writeup at ahevents.org Do you see an alt cap or down draft or airstarts? Because if it shows on your end and not on mine this needs to be fixed immediatly and we need to figure out whats causing it. Pand cut and pasted from the site like I did, and we have two different things. That is the real problem.
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Its usually good practice to check the arena settings a few minutes before take off. There have been times in the past where the writeup will say one thing but the actual arena settings (thanks HTC for giving us the chance to see actual arena settings while in them) are different. I always double check both the winds (be sure to look at all alt levels) and the burn multiplier. There has also been times where the arena may not have been set up correctly and then fixed right before launch or soon after launch (like tonight with the dar bars). If this is the case it is clearly noted in the text buffer (again like tonight).
Like anything else on the internet... don't always take it as the gospel.
<S>
-Climber
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I think it was in the Arena message about the downdraft. Dont hold me to that but I remember reading it somewhere.
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This is exactly what I see, plus my FSO orders itself says:
Shifty, In the orders I received from CiC it showed a downdraft at 25K. It was a direct copy/paste in my OP.
Obviously there was some confusion in the orders sent out across Axis and Allies.
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I see you already did Butcher
Thanks!
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Who did you ask about alt cap and who told you there was a downdraft? That was my question. I know how it is written when there is a alt cap or down draft. Like I said there was no alt cap set. If some people are seeing it in the writeup and some are not we need to find out why so this kind of mixup doesn't happen again. Apparently the website seems to be showing two different things. If you don't mind and if you have time check out the writeup at ahevents.org Do you see an alt cap or down draft or airstarts? Because if it shows on your end and not on mine this needs to be fixed immediatly and we need to figure out whats causing it. Pand cut and pasted from the site like I did, and we have two different things. That is the real problem.
The Down winds was posted RIGHT before we took off, I can't remember who changed it but it was posted openly about it being changed, I would say 2-5 minutes before take off.
I can't remember if it was you or someone else, frankly I didn't pay much attention - I only asked on country if it was an ALT cap and no CIC/etc answered about it.
All I remember it said "Downwinds 25k", in Blue color or maybe orange lettering from the server side.
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I think it was in the Arena message about the downdraft. Dont hold me to that but I remember reading it somewhere.
This is exactly what we saw as well.
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ARENA SETTINGS:
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Formations On
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
This was the Arena Settings that were emailed to TG with our orders.
I hope you guys had fun we did! :aok
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The Down winds was posted RIGHT before we took off, I can't remember who changed it but it was posted openly about it being changed, I would say 2-5 minutes before take off.
I can't remember if it was you or someone else, frankly I didn't pay much attention - I only asked on country if it was an ALT cap and no CIC/etc answered about it.
All I remember it said "Downwinds 25k", in Blue color or maybe orange lettering from the server side.
I must have missed this completely, but that may have been due to coordinating the squad and briefing before takeoff. Apparently everyone else saw the last minute change---- I didn't... and we all died because of it. Up against TG we likely would have all died anyway :)
Sorry for my lack of attention guys. :bhead
Settings mailed to us that were accurate up until a few minutes before takeoff:
Scoring and Arena Settings
Scoring:
All fighter aircraft and single engined bombers = 5 pts
All twin engined bombers=15 pts
Vehicle Hangar = 25 pts
Fighter Hangar = 25 pts
Bomber Hangar = 25 pts
All other base structures gun positions and strat buildings 2 pts
each
Destroyers= 30 pts
Cruisers= 50 pts
Safe landing bonus 5 points per plane.
Arena Settings:
- New Britain Map
- Fuel burn 1.0
- Icons (3k)
- 0.3 Ack
- Fighter and Bomber warning range 105,600 (20 miles)
- Tower range set to 105,600
- Haze/fog /full visibility (17 Miles)
- No Dot Dar
- Enemy Collisions On - Friendly Collisions Off
- Killshooter off - Time: 11:00 AM
--Air Starts at 24K
- Bomber Calibration: Manual
-Winds: Down Draft at 25K
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Accidental repost.
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I must have missed this completely, but that may have been due to coordinating the squad and briefing before takeoff. Apparently everyone else saw the last minute change---- I didn't... and we all died because of it.
Sorry for my lack of attention guys. :bhead
Settings mailed to us that were accurate up until a few minutes before takeoff:
-Winds: Down Draft at 25K[/sup]
This does not mean anything, normally its written in the rules like this:
Restrictions:
ALT cap of 25k until enemy is spotted.
If this was what was suppose to happen it was clearly missed, I usually see downwinds as nothing more then not allowing someone to fly at 40k if they wanted, as I said we were extremely limited to 30k and barely 300mph.
Then again you guys got royally boned thinking it was a restriction or we simply didn't have it in our orders.
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Shifty, In the orders I received from CiC it showed a downdraft at 25K. It was a direct copy/paste in my OP.
Obviously there was some confusion in the orders sent out across Axis and Allies.
I was told last week downdrafts were showing along with airstarts. I cleared them out last week before I wrote the objectives and not really sure how they got in in the first place. This was not in my original writeup. Hell this map doesn't even have a place for airstarts. :rolleyes:
Either Viper or Warloc asked me about it again last week I checked again and the writeup was showing as it was this evening. I wondered why they asked, and was certain the writeup was correct after visually reading and checking it again. Its entirely possible I screwed something up and it is actually showing different rules on different front ends for some reason. My best guess is browser refreshing may cause two different sets of results. No matter what the reason it is my setup and the fault lies with me and I apologize for the confusion and appreciate your position on it. I would like to say though both Viper and Warloc did outstanding jobs as CICs and this has nothing to do with their actions.
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This does not mean anything, normally its written in the rules like this:
Restrictions:
ALT cap of 25k until enemy is spotted.
If this was what was suppose to happen it was clearly missed, I usually see downwinds as nothing more then not allowing someone to fly at 40k if they wanted, as I said we were extremely limited to 30k and barely 300mph.
Then again you guys got royally boned thinking it was a restriction or we simply didn't have it in our orders.
TG did nothing wrong! You followed the orders you were given, and saw the last minute change that I missed. <S>
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AXIS CIC here concerning the down draft issue and what I think may have happened:
I provided the orders to the AXIS side and my last slide listed the Arena and Scoring settings. On Sunday 30 Jun 12 when I did my "Cut and Paste" from the Special Events page it stated "Winds: Down Draft at 25K" in the last line where it clearly states "Winds Calm" now. I issued my orders on Sunday night and never went back to check.
And the line "Air Starts at 24K" followed the Killshotter line. Which has now been removed as well. This of course had no effect in the game.
I issued guidance to my Strike Packages to use the Down Draft to their advantage if they could which many tried from the sounds of it.
Seems like a simple mistake where a change was made to the Web Site Page after the Task Ords went out for planning. And when the changes were made no communication was sent out to the CIC's.
I echo the statements of many here we love what the CM's do in their thankless no paid positions. Me included. Lesson learned is probably better communications when changes are made. And likewise as the CIC I should have confirmed the settings about 24 hours out.
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I was told last week downdrafts were showing along with airstarts. I cleared them out last week before I wrote the objectives and not really sure how they got in in the first place. This was not in my original writeup. Hell this map doesn;t even have a place for airstarts. :rolleyes:
Either Viper or Warloc asked me about it again last week I checked again and the writeup was showing as it was this evening. I wondered why they asked, and was certain the write was correct after checking it again. Its entirely possible I screwed something up and it is actually showing different rules on different front ends for some reason. My best guess is browser refreshing may cause two different sets of results. No matter what the reason it is my setup and the fault lies with me and I apologize for the confusion and appreciate your position on it. I would like to say though both Viper and Warloc did outstanding jobs as CICs and this has nothing to do with their actions.
Again, as referenced in my OP, thanks again for all that you guys do! It is just my frustration and disappointment to see my team get smeared due to different orders and last minute changes. At least it was realistic, we definitely felt the way I imagine the axis did! :D
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I echo the statements of many here we love what the CM's do in their thankless no paid positions. Me included. Lesson learned is probably better communications when changes are made. And likewise as the CIC I should have confirmed the settings about 24 hours out.
I will also comment that your writeup and presentation of the data was fantastic. It was a great read and very educational that provided direction that we could share with our squadrons. Thanks for taking the time to put all that stuff together. <S>