Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Moss on April 06, 2001, 03:52:00 PM
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You ever wonder why so many people stayed with AW (Air Warrior) even though it had allowed itself to antiquate? The reason is one word: "Community".
What makes a community? I'm no expert but it seems to me that a community is a place where a group of people gather together to enjoy a common interest.
What made AW's community so good? Again, in one word: "respect". Being modest in victory and complimentary in defeat. Graciousness goes a long no matter the outcome of a contest.
Unfortunately, not everyone holds values like these as a standard, whether it be in a game or real life and respect has to be enforced. As most of you know, in AW, there were staff members that could be instantly paged as necessity dictated. Additionally, these staff members visited the different arenas and made their presence known by chatting with players. I can tell you from personal experience, that you certainly were prone to choose your words more carefully anytime in AW precisely because you knew there would be consequences for a personal attack, abuse or unacceptable language.
I know players that heretofore, would not leave AW to come to AH. Oh..they had tried AH but after playing for a short while and hearing all the bitter insults, just didn't feel comfortable. Specifically, they said it was the lack of community
I know some of you are saying that the same thing happened in AW and it did but how long did it last?
Mutual respect my friends, mutual respect. Without it, there is no quality of play, no lasting friendships and a poor community.
I think all of us admire and respect Dale (Hitech) and Doug (Pyro) for the enormous gamble they took in initiating and bringing this game to life. I think we all, and not just for selfish reasons, want Hitechcreations to succeed. How do we help them? By being the type of community that people feel comfortable in and proud to be a part of.
So there, I've gotten it off of my chest. You'll have to look long and hard to find anything I've posted in here but felt this was the time, if any.
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Well said. S!
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<S>! Moss (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Nice post Moss: I have a feeling that what happens in AH is a reflection of the lack of community in real life. People being sort of walled off and all from having political power and so forth. I suspect some of the younger players want power to control things and when that does not work they get angry. Does seem like a lot of anger/acting out stuff at times. The anger may have developed elsewhere but it gets dumped here. I don't like the profanity and the sexual innuendo which is one reason that I just play for like 10-12 days, cancel the subscription and then come back again later on. Both good and bad vibes can spread. Let's keep good vibes in our consciousness.
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Well said Moss.
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Well said Moss < S >
Vati
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No offence Moss, but that was some sappy toejam! Nice, but God, too funny..
Lol, Belushi took yer guitar and smashed it, and us guys that missed yer point cheered!
Glad you got it off your chest, its so huge and important...lol.
Fluuurrrrblap!
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Well said.
<S>! Moss.
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Right On! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Who is this Moss fella and what's his handicap?
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Well Said Moss! <S>
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Well put Mossie! I agree 99%. My only difference that I think the average maturity in AH is higher than in AW, IMHO. I agree entirely with everything else you've said. I too have noticed that there seems to be more angry, low-level personal attacks, and just childish sexual innuendo with no practical consequences to those that indulge in the behavior in AH. I have mixed feelings about even suggesting this, but perhaps AH could use some "policing".
aka AW "yormt....DaddyAce"
[This message has been edited by wapiti (edited 04-07-2001).]
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Originally posted by Moss:
As most of you know, in AW, there were staff members that could be instantly paged as necessity dictated. Additionally, these staff members visited the different arenas and made their presence known by chatting with players. I can tell you from personal experience, that you certainly were prone to choose your words more carefully anytime in AW precisely because you knew there would be consequences for a personal attack, abuse or unacceptable language.
Yes, and for 18 months I was one of those staff.... the tragedy is, EA.com recently decided they no longer wanted the volunteer staff and we were all shown the door a few weeks ago. I guess one reason I have returned to have another go at Aces High is because of the way I feel about EA.com right now... they have robbed me of something that has been a major part of my life for the last 18 months. Some of us have set up an independent group, but I am not sure we will be able to have the same impact as we did before. I truly hope the Air Warrior community doesn't degenerate as a result of EA.com's actions... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Flossy
AH - <Kraits>
AW - Hell Gods (and <Kraits>)
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Well said Moss.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Moss:
You ever wonder why so many people stayed with AW (Air Warrior) even though it had allowed itself to antiquate?
<snip>
Well, as a very fresh AH pile-it, and long time AW pile-it, I think I have a view worth sharing on this issue. First off I think Moss hit the nail on the head with the above post. Going thru the boards here there seems to be a lot of hostility going on. Which is a shame, but also upto a certain level it is part of the game. Every community has it's share of a**holes. But a working community always finds it's own way in dealing with those. Having voluntary staff members around helps in some cases to set these characters straight, but usually the community itself takes care of business before any staffer has had time to jump in. And I don't mean by way of flaming the guys ass, although sometimes funny, but the most effective way is ignoring the kid altogether. There is nothing more deadly to annoying loudmouthed kiddies than silence.
But after all this talk about community, I feel I should point out some differences between the AH community and that in AW. AW community dates back into the eighties. People have known eachother for years and years. In contrast the AH community is still quite young. It has yet to be formed. Arena play doesn't really do that. Webbased discussion boards do to some extent, but NNTP capable newshosts do a better job of putting people in contact with eachother. But the all time high supersuper community forming substance is called scenario's. In AW, people still talk about DoK's scenario's (yes he's flying here now) which were held years & years ago. You meet new people, have a common goal etc etc.
And after such a scenario, you look these people up in the arena. Talk on the open channel if they fly for an nme country. And this is the way community is formed.
The funny thing that an AW pilot notices right away is the lack of conversation on open channel (or as we call it channel 1). People come into the arena, greet their fellow country members, switch to squad channel and you never hear from them again during the time they're on. They fight enemy icons. For the good of their squad. They might as well be fighting drones. They wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Some people even have grown to hate the rooks, knights or bishops. Which is silly really. It was the same in AW, but I never experienced it as intense as here in AH. Having friends on 'the other side' helps to lessen the hostility.
And yes, as Moss stated, there's much friendship in the AW arena's. People congratulating eachother on the kill , or saying thanks for a good fight. Giving advice to newbie's (before clubbing them). It's what I miss here in AH.
But the AH community is young. Feed more big scenario's into it and it will grow. Throw in an offline readable message board and it will grow even faster. And ofcourse the influx of AW types like myself. We're being lured in here with nice eyecandy, clouds, sunsets, pt-boats, naval taskforces etc etc etc. And with the last happenings with regard to Kesmai / EA I expect there will be more in the future.
Some people here might feel a bit threatened by this. They might feel their community is changing. They are right, it will change. Nothing ever stays the same. But I expect the AW pile-its will blend in nicely here. And maybe introduce part of an age-old community of aviation and aerial combat enthusiasts.
What your community has that AW lacks at the moment is that the people making AH are also enjoying it, and can be seen flying the arena regularly. Right now, AW is more dead than alive. No real view of improvement.
So AH will be my refuge for the time to come. Be patient with us AW pile-its. We look upon you guys with baby-seal eyes, fumbling with trim wheels, fighting rubber bands and evading lethal headon shots. Club us gently. We'll grow teeth over time.
Immel
'Knights of Airwarrior'
[This message has been edited by Immel (edited 04-07-2001).]
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Alright, thats it Torque... I can search my email to track you back down, but you better just fess up and get the hell in here.
Just join the FDB RW, ignore analmal and Fatty. Sort it out from there........
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Very well said, Moss.
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In my experience, you give and you shall receive. Treat your opponent respectfully regardless of the victor and he will return that respect.
If the opponent doesn't return that respect, let it go. Anger is a choice.
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<S> MOss, and very well said.
Immel, that was a really nice post. I never flew in AW, but from what I have seen of the serveral AW pilots I have had a chance to meet online, I gotta say the group seems like a really good one.
I, for one, say, "Welcome to all the recent AW pilots who have joined our young community."
I hope you all have as much here as I do (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net
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<SALUTE> Moss , well said , although , we need no police in here (mage) PLEASE .
this post was not ment to be a personal attack on anyone .
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Nicely said Mossie! Most of the players in AH come from WB's, AW, and FA. Respect is the first element needed for a relationship to mature, second is be humble, third is have fun!
Thorns
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Mossman! well said! Learned awhile back in aw that after I got shot down, I had no one to get mad at but myself, hell I put myself into that position, why would I blame the enemy pilot for shooting me down? If it weren't for some of th oldtimers in AW, I'd still be doing circles around b85, and poorly at that.
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Nicely stated Moss and Immel =o)
dabear
Knights of AiWarrior
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Oh you know I have to say something. Nice post Moss and I'm sure many die hards will stay with an old worn out sim like AW just for the community. But on the contrary..
Call me a selfish Generation Xer, but I'm puttin my money where the beef is. If AH was crap I'd be long gone regardless of the community. Fortunately AH is not crap and is the best sim ever IMO.
And, another contrary point, I like pilots like Nath who are extremely competitive. I don't always want the guy saluting me when I shoot him down, I would prefer he get ticked and come back with a vengence. I'm not for all this love peace slap each other on the back kinda air war. I want some real competition. I want someone to come back at me with fire in his eyes. That was Nath, and it was even more enjoyable shooting him down. To me that makes it fun. Of course I don't condone getting po'd the way he did, but there's a fine line one can walk.
fscott
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Originally posted by fscott:
Oh you know I have to say something. Nice post Moss and I'm sure many die hards will stay with an old worn out sim like AW just for the community. But on the contrary..
Call me a selfish Generation Xer, but I'm puttin my money where the beef is. If AH was crap I'd be long gone regardless of the community. Fortunately AH is not crap and is the best sim ever IMO.
And, another contrary point, I like pilots like Nath who are extremely competitive. I don't always want the guy saluting me when I shoot him down, I would prefer he get ticked and come back with a vengence. I'm not for all this love peace slap each other on the back kinda air war. I want some real competition. I want someone to come back at me with fire in his eyes. That was Nath, and it was even more enjoyable shooting him down. To me that makes it fun. Of course I don't condone getting po'd the way he did, but there's a fine line one can walk.
fscott
Hehehe.....so true fscott. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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fscott wrote:
I don't always want the guy saluting me when I shoot him down, I would prefer he get ticked and come back with a vengence.
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you can do both.. showing respect for a good fight dosnt make you lose any intensity in your next engagement.
Krusher
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Torque when are you going to shut up and start flying?
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Yeah Torque, I need someone to take nath's place. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
fscott
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Needs a punt!
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You know what AH has that AW didnt? A scores page. How many AW players ever knew what their score was, or even cared? We flew to have fun and get our side to win. If ya got shot down 50 times in a night, it didnt matter and we all had fun. I regularly see score specific behavior from my own countrymen. Refusal to engage to help a defensive countryman because it might be a tough fite. Kill stealing, gang bangs, refusal to leave your ack even when odds are fair and on and on. That score specific attitude brought on by having that stupid scores page has made people on the same side behave like competitors instead of team mates. Lose that stupid thing and you'll see the general attitude in the ma decidedly improve. You wanna keep score, fine, then you should only be able to view your own scores and not anyone elses..if they wanna share them with rest of us, then fine.
CRASH
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(jumping on the bandwagon) Thank you Moss<S>
Buhdman, out
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Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
The Buccaneers - "Return with Honor"
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow