Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Debrody on July 17, 2012, 12:52:53 PM
-
Got some money with the business and a wild idea just got stuck in my mind.
I would be curious whats the cheapest video card what can run AH nearly maxed out on a 3-way full-HD system with a steady 50-60FPS?
What i dont need:
-self-shadowing. The 8096 shadows really hit the performance, but i dont really like the smaller ones.
-ground cutter in flight
-bump map other aircraft and GVs
Also. I have never had a joystick and im an absolute laic in this question. Please help me out, what to buy? Which stick dont wear out quickly (potmeters), which one can serve me for a long time?
Thank you very much,
Debrődy
-
Can't help you with the first question, but I can recommend a joystick: If you aren't into HOTAS'es, the Guillemot Thrustmaster T.16000M (http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_UK/products/t16000m) is the cheapest stick to use HALL sensors instead of potentiometres. It's got a twisty for rudder, a throttle slider and plenty of buttons. Most of all, it's very accurate.
How long will it last? Well, sir, that depends on your flying style. I have a gentle hand and I've used for years sticks some claim to wear out in mere months. But if you tend to twist the stick far beyond its moving range, any stick will eventually break.
-
Ty Sir!
Honestly, idk how an average pilot flyes, but i got the feeling that i could wreck a stick very soon, as im raping my controls trying to get the best out from my aircraft :)
More or less 35 pounds, hmm... lets count 45 as the IT devices are super expensive here... thats about 60 Euros, ergo ~ 15k HuF... not as bad as i expected, still not too cheap for my budget.
Might worth a try tho.
-
debrody what cpu do you have? if you really want 3 screens a cheap vc may not do it. you dont have to get the 1k either but it more has to match your current system.
semp
-
debrody what cpu do you have? if you really want 3 screens a cheap vc may not do it. you dont have to get the 1k either but it more has to match your current system.
PhenomII 955, not a top notch one.
-
PhenomII 955, not a top notch one.
is not an average middle of the pile cpu either....... the 955 is a:
AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.2GHz Quad Core Black Editon
so it should have plenty cpu ummph to handle the higher end video cards and multiple monitors, I would think........ although you have to look at your computer's components over all ( every single component ) and how well they all match up / work together...... just a good CPU and a good GPU does not make a good PC.......
TC
-
What else is needed, TC?
My PC was built to be the "best bang for the buck"... The CPU was flashed from a PhenomII 555, the GPU is a 5830 (bought it when the 6k series came out, was cheaper than the 5770...), i got 4*2GB ddr-1600, an 1TB HDD, a 64GB OCZ agility 2.1 SSD and an 500W Chieftec PSU. Nothing special, all medicore components.
I thought a HD-7870 could be enough to run a 3-way system, and not to kill my PSU.
-
What else is needed, TC?
My PC was built to be the "best bang for the buck"... The CPU was flashed from a PhenomII 555, the GPU is a 5830 (bought it when the 6k series came out, was cheaper than the 5770...), i got 4*2GB ddr-1600, an 1TB HDD, a 64GB OCZ agility 2.1 SSD and an 500W Chieftec PSU. Nothing special, all medicore components.
I thought a HD-7870 could be enough to run a 3-way system, and not to kill my PSU.
not that anything or other things are needed..... I think you understand what I meant in my previous post
yes, I would think about possibly upgrading your PSU and maybe even consider purchasing a "true" 955 thru 980 x4 CPU, I have the 565 and although it unlocked to the 965, it was not truely stable on the 3rd core...... yet cores 1,2 & 4 were perfectly fine.... ( the prices have really dropped on the phenom II x4 cpus as well..... )
I have not kept up on the video cards lately er since middle of last year...... but I would think a 6950 or 6970 would be plenty enough......
hope this helps <S>
TC
-
What else is needed, TC?
My PC was built to be the "best bang for the buck"... The CPU was flashed from a PhenomII 555, the GPU is a 5830 (bought it when the 6k series came out, was cheaper than the 5770...), i got 4*2GB ddr-1600, an 1TB HDD, a 64GB OCZ agility 2.1 SSD and an 500W Chieftec PSU. Nothing special, all medicore components.
I thought a HD-7870 could be enough to run a 3-way system, and not to kill my PSU.
you are going to need a little better hardware than that to run triple monitors, especially for ah. that cpu may be running "like a 955" it's not actually running the way a 955 would run. you would honestly be better off using an intel cpu and mobo with an amd 69xx or 78xx or better video card. that power supply needs to be replaced too... :uhoh
-
PSU... why so? The 5830 has the TDP of 165W, while the 7870 is rated at 175W... that might cause problems, but the 7850 is even lower, 130W, while giving the 6950's performance...
I wouldnt touch the 69xx series, as they were reported noisy and they eat a load of energy.
Btw i have a "true" 955 in an other computer, and not so impressed with it. This flashed crap can reach 3.8GHz at stock voltages if needed while the true 955 cant do more than 3.4. I had luck, im happy with it.
As for the Intel, while its clearly, way superior to the AMD, its also super expensive here. A fluffin i5 2500k costs 55-60K Huf, whats about equal to 250-280 bucks, let alone the i7. Same with the motherboards.
I dont have money for a new puter, and only barely enough for a 7850 if i want to buy a good stick too (what i may have to live withouth haha).
Let me rephrase my question, would that be enough for AH in a triple head, full-hd or 1600*900 setup?
-
the T16000 is 30-40euros and is a great buy IMO, that's what I use.
concerning the PSU, it looks like your current would be enough :)
You will be able to run triple screen if you get the 7870, but as aces high is very cpu oriented you may not be able to run the full eye candy. Also 1600*900*3 will run MUCH easier than 1920*1080*3, its proportional to the number of pixels displayed.
-
PSU... why so? The 5830 has the TDP of 165W, while the 7870 is rated at 175W... that might cause problems, but the 7850 is even lower, 130W, while giving the 6950's performance...
I wouldnt touch the 69xx series, as they were reported noisy and they eat a load of energy.
Btw i have a "true" 955 in an other computer, and not so impressed with it. This flashed crap can reach 3.8GHz at stock voltages if needed while the true 955 cant do more than 3.4. I had luck, im happy with it.
As for the Intel, while its clearly, way superior to the AMD, its also super expensive here. A fluffin i5 2500k costs 55-60K Huf, whats about equal to 250-280 bucks, let alone the i7. Same with the motherboards.
I dont have money for a new puter, and only barely enough for a 7850 if i want to buy a good stick too (what i may have to live withouth haha).
Let me rephrase my question, would that be enough for AH in a triple head, full-hd or 1600*900 setup?
you're assuming that chieftec power supply is actually putting out the power it's rated at. according to the information i've found on them, that is not the case. they are on the level of logisys and diablotek. if you're happy with it, good luck.
i can tell you from first hand experience, the radeon 6950, specifically the xfx double d 2gb version is super quiet. it's possible one of the lower quality brands has a noisy fan. my cpu fan makes more noise. but, the 7850 2gb model would be a good choice, similar performance to the 6950 but uses less power.
sure the intel processors are very expensive, sometimes they aren't worth it and sometimes they are. personally, i'm running a 965be on an 890fx mobo with 8gb of ddr3 1333mhz ram. at stock speed, it doesn't go over 70% on 2 cores with the most demanding games i have.
you might want to take a closer look at the actual specs of your cpu vs the 955be, specifically the cache, which affects internal cpu performance. you may be getting higher clock cycles but, it can't do the same amount of work.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X2%20555%20-%20HDZ555WFK2DGM%20(HDZ555WFGMBOX).html (http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X2%20555%20-%20HDZ555WFK2DGM%20(HDZ555WFGMBOX).html)
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20955%20Black%20Edition%20-%20HDZ955FBK4DGI%20(HDZ955FBGIBOX).html (http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20955%20Black%20Edition%20-%20HDZ955FBK4DGI%20(HDZ955FBGIBOX).html)
-
I cant get why the 555 flashed (B55) is less than the 955.
Same 128kb L1 cache/core, same 512kb L2 cache/core, same 6MB shared L3 cache... where is the difference? Would you help me out?
Btw true, the cores arent simmilar. The first two and the fourth one can sustain the default 3.2GHz at 1.275 Volt, while the third one requires 1.35V Thats still less than the factory default.
To reach 3.8GHz i have to set the default 1.375V on each core.
With the settings im using, AH already seems to have a mixed limit, but while pulling the CPU or the VRAM only result in a minor improvement, OCing the GPU core causes an instant FPS increase.
Guessing, setting a higher resolution will cause an even stronger GPU-limit.
-
it's here Debrody...
the 955be...
Level 1 cache size = 4 x 64 KB 2-way associative instruction caches
= 4 x 64 KB 2-way associative data caches
Level 2 cache size = 4 x 512 KB 16-way associative caches
Level 3 cache size = 6 MB shared 48-way associative cache
-
Exactly, Lethrnek,
the 555 has 2*2*64KB as L1, 2*512KB as L2, and the same 6MB shared L2.
If you unlock 2 cores, you also unlock their own 2*2*64KB L1 and 2*512KB L2, right?
That will be 2*2*64KB L1 and 4*512KB L2, while the L3 stays the same, am i right? Isnt that the same as in the standard 955?
Sorry i just cant follow your logic. :headscratch:
-
Exactly, Lethrnek,
the 555 has 2*2*64KB as L1, 2*512KB as L2, and the same 6MB shared L2.
If you unlock 2 cores, you also unlock their own 2*2*64KB L1 and 2*512KB L2, right?
That will be 2*2*64KB L1 and 4*512KB L2, while the L3 stays the same, am i right? Isnt that the same as in the standard 955?
Sorry i just cant follow your logic. :headscratch:
no Debrody, the number and size of the l2 and l3 cache does not increase when you unlock the other cores. the callisto chips only carry a total of 1024kb of l2 cache, where the deneb's carry 2048kb. the way the cache is handled is different too. note the words "<number>- way associative, on the deneb chips. that's what gives the deneb chips just a little more power, it's not just clock cycles.
-
CPU-Z says:
Name: AMD Phenom II x4 B55 BE
Core Name: Deneb (yes, was Callisto before the unlock)
L1 Data Cache: 4x64KBytes (was 2x64 before)
L1 Trace Cache: 4x64KBytes (was 2x64 before)
L2 Cache 4x512 KBytes (was 2x512 before)
L3 Cache: 6144KBytes (its the same)
Looks pretty much like its a fully functioning 955...
The L1 and L2 are integrated to the cores. If you lock a core (by the BIOS), the cores cache will be locked too, if you unlock a core, you cant do it withouth unlocking the L1 and L2 cache built into it. The L3 is shared, activating or disactivating cores wont affect this.
At least what i think about it.
-
CPU-Z says:
Name: AMD Phenom II x4 B55 BE
Core Name: Deneb (yes, was Callisto before the unlock)
L1 Data Cache: 4x64KBytes (was 2x64 before)
L1 Trace Cache: 4x64KBytes (was 2x64 before)
L2 Cache 4x512 KBytes (was 2x512 before)
L3 Cache: 6144KBytes (its the same)
Looks pretty much like its a fully functioning 955...
The L1 and L2 are integrated to the cores. If you lock a core (by the BIOS), the cores cache will be locked too, if you unlock a core, you cant do it withouth unlocking the L1 and L2 cache built into it. The L3 is shared, activating or disactivating cores wont affect this.
At least what i think about it.
now you have me :headscratch: if that is indeed the case, then the info about the differences between the callisto and deneb chips that i have been referencing is off. the l1 cache would be per core, the l2 is supposedly static like the l3 but...if cpuz is reporting it correctly then...wtf?
-
Reminds me of the Thorton I once had.Originally it was a 2400+@266MHz, but it ran @390 after dropping the multiplier from 16.5 (Thorobred) to 11 (Barton). Apparently it was a Barton 3200+ which couldn't run stable @400MHz, so they crippled it down to the Thoroughbred specs. Maybe its caches could have been enlarged to Barton values with some pencil mod, I don't know. I've also read from IT magazines, that the manufacturers may even cripple fully functional items because of greater demand in the lower price category. Who knows the truth, but it seems like you've found a nugget. :aok
-
I cant get why the 555 flashed (B55) is less than the 955.
Same 128kb L1 cache/core, same 512kb L2 cache/core, same 6MB shared L3 cache... where is the difference? Would you help me out?
Btw true, the cores arent simmilar. The first two and the fourth one can sustain the default 3.2GHz at 1.275 Volt, while the third one requires 1.35V Thats still less than the factory default.
To reach 3.8GHz i have to set the default 1.375V on each core.
With the settings im using, AH already seems to have a mixed limit, but while pulling the CPU or the VRAM only result in a minor improvement, OCing the GPU core causes an instant FPS increase.
Guessing, setting a higher resolution will cause an even stronger GPU-limit.
debrody a lot of the cpus that you can unlock were due to the cpu failing the testing of the higher cpu but passing for a lower cpu. so instead of getting thrown away they were sold as a lower cpu. sometimes the manu will actually sell cpu if they have an oversupply as a lower cpu. both you can unlock and make it perform like the higher cpu but only those that never had a problem to begin with will actually perform as the higher cpu. remember there was a reason why they wouldnt pass the testing as the higher cpu. some vc manufactuers do the same with vc then spread the word to increase sales.
semp
-
Idk Semp, i never told anyone to follow my example and buy risky CPUs, but i had luck with this one and im perfectly happy with it right now, even tho its performance is just barely better then the new I3s.
At that time and my financial status, this was the best choice, just like the "last minute" supercheap (its relative tho) 5830.
-
that is some serious luck Debrody. since it is running like it is, may as well toss another 4gb of ram into the system then buy a 2gb 7850, assuming you have a 64bit os. if you want a good durable stick that isn't expensive, look for a thrustmaster hotas t-flight hotas x stick. it has a ton of buttons, throttle and you can use the twist stick function or rocker button on the throttle for rudder control.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=thrustmaster+t-flight+hotas+x&oq=thrustmaster&gs_l=hp.1.3.0l4.0.0.1.134.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1c.rfg9F3VdEjY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=640d1991c704c3df&biw=1920&bih=951&tch=3&ech=1&psi=ev0HULjlIoTGqwG1tu3EBA.1342700999905.1&wrapid=tlif134270099990510&cid=1801584783819885799&sa=X&ei=gP0HULTNE6Ti2QWZmenVBA&ved=0CE0QrQQ (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=thrustmaster+t-flight+hotas+x&oq=thrustmaster&gs_l=hp.1.3.0l4.0.0.1.134.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1c.rfg9F3VdEjY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=640d1991c704c3df&biw=1920&bih=951&tch=3&ech=1&psi=ev0HULjlIoTGqwG1tu3EBA.1342700999905.1&wrapid=tlif134270099990510&cid=1801584783819885799&sa=X&ei=gP0HULTNE6Ti2QWZmenVBA&ved=0CE0QrQQ)
(http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/SKUimages/gallery/large/H40-0026-call04-mm.jpg)
-
My motherboard has only 4 RAM slots ;)
Maybe i was misunderstandable, i have 4 sticks of 2GB ddr3. Of course, the OS is a 64bit version.
Just checked the price of the 7850s. The cheapest 2GB model costs no less than 64k HUF, whats about equal to 300 US dollars... ouch!
Unfortunately i dont have that much money now, time to work some more.
-
holy cow!!! :O you can get 7850s for $240 and free shipping here in the u.s. did you check one of the european amazon sites?
-
holy cow!!! :O you can get 7850s for $240 and free shipping here in the u.s. did you check one of the european amazon sites?
Do US prices include VAT? In Hungary it's 27%.
@Debrody: I have been quite satisfied with the Hotas Gyrene was kind enough to include a picture of. I still use the throttle part of it, trying to figure out how to modify the stick part to a bunch of buttons and pots. It's the older model (not PS2 compatible) and fully working. Highly recommendable.