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Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: Kovel on July 24, 2012, 10:31:31 AM

Title: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 24, 2012, 10:31:31 AM

Since 2 weeks ago....I notice that the nose of Dora goes up in a steeper angle than I was used to....  So I recorded it:

http://es.sizablesend.com/download/bcca3d00534853a69f69da2d97f24729 (http://es.sizablesend.com/download/bcca3d00534853a69f69da2d97f24729)

In the film I level the plane with Auto-pilot ON. As soon as I turn it off....the nose moves to the sky in a deep angle. In the film I never put any positive Gs with my jostick. I only put negative Gs to level off the nose again and repeat the process.....

You can see that the plane gets more than a climb rate of 4.

Joystick was calibrated in AH and in windows before the test.

Do you see any strange behaviour in the plane?

It could be a joy problem? Could It be that I have lost the touch over my Dora??

(I have been flying Doras and hogs for more than a year)

Thanks a lot in advance for help

Kovel
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 24, 2012, 10:44:05 AM
I can't look at film now but most likely your joystick needs to be calibrated. If your stick is OK take a look at your elevator trim indicator when you turn auto level off and see if it moves up. Check to see if you have elevator trim mapped to any controller in the controller setup. When you turn off the auto level trim you should still be in level flight unless you have analog trim mapped and set for climb.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: katanaso on July 24, 2012, 11:15:01 AM
I had the same thing happen to me, but in a 51.  It turned out to be my stick lost calibration in AH, the first time in nearly 3 years.  I don't know if it was some glitch with the update or not, but recalibrating fixed it.

Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 24, 2012, 03:34:23 PM
Joystick was calibrated before the test.

I'va just gone offline and let the dora leveled until sustained speed with auto level on. Then I turned it off (Combat trim OFF as well) and the dora flied mostly leveled...indeed it started to pull up the nose very veryyy slowly, but when I turned Combat trim ON, the problem appears again.

So... It is Combat TRIM ON that pulls my nose up at an angle higher than 45º.....

You can check it in the film.

Any ideas ?
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 24, 2012, 03:55:17 PM
Looked at your film. Note the elevator trim indicator is moving up after you fly level with CT on.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 24, 2012, 04:43:44 PM
Looked at your film. Note the elevator trim indicator is moving up after you fly level with CT on.


What does it mean or imply? Is it not correct?

(Thanks for taking your time with my film)

Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Skuzzy on July 24, 2012, 04:52:21 PM
What does it mean or imply? Is it not correct?

(Thanks for taking your time with my film)



Just FYI, I cannot review films which are not in the default Aces High film format.  They do us no good as the data we need has been removed.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 24, 2012, 04:57:29 PM
Hya Skuzzy,

Sorry but I don't get it. It is a default AH film. I recorded it with ALR+R and sent it to you. It is an .ahf  file.

(Salute)
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: fuzeman on July 24, 2012, 05:22:06 PM
What happens when you fly a Hog, F4U? If it was indeed a joystick problem I think it would manifest itself in every plane you choose opposed to just the Dora.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 24, 2012, 06:38:50 PM
What does it mean or imply? Is it not correct?

(Thanks for taking your time with my film)



It means that something is changing your elevator trim.  On the film it looks like you nose up a little first then the trim changes which makes me think the combat trim is trying to hold the same attitude as the speed changes. I don't know why you nose up initially but combat trim is not the same as auto level trim. It may be that combat trim will always trim you slightly nose up and once your pitch attitude changes then combat trim will add more elevator trim up to maintain the new angle. Whether that's on purpose or needs adjustment I can't say. I don't use it enough to notice if it's changed. You can easily avoid the pitch up by using auto level trim. CT is the same in a P-51 so it isn't the Dora or your stick.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: DREDIOCK on July 24, 2012, 07:07:00 PM
I had ame problem with plan doing things I didnt input it to do.

Check your trim wheels for center.

Drove me nuts for 3 days till I finally thought to check the trim wheels
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 25, 2012, 04:58:37 AM
I have manual elevator trim mapped to de up hat view. It's not a wheel...it's a hat.

Anyway....Once I turn COMBAT TRIM ON elevator trim starts to move up....It shouldn't be like that, should it?

Combat Trim should react to your plane flight, and not vice versa I guess.

So I think I really need to fix it. It's now really hard to fly the plane with COMBAT TRIM ON as It tends to nose up in every moment  :(

   
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 25, 2012, 07:12:18 AM
Easy short term fix is to turn combat trim off and use auto trim for angle to reset the trim when your speed changes and use auto trim for level to fly level.

If the elevator trim goes up with combat trim off then check the hat, if it only goes up when combat trim is on then there is nothing for you to fix. If it goes up anyway then recheck your controller assignments.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 25, 2012, 09:30:32 AM
Hya FLS:

It only happens with CT ON. If everything is OFF and plane is trimmed manually.....elevator trim doesnt move and plane flies leveled.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: katanaso on July 25, 2012, 09:47:21 AM
Kovel,

What happens if you turn on Combat Trim via the keyboard, and not the stick?  Does it happen then?
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 25, 2012, 09:51:52 AM
Kovel,

What happens if you turn on Combat Trim via the keyboard, and not the stick?  Does it happen then?

Yes...It happens the same

Ty :)
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: katanaso on July 25, 2012, 11:31:00 AM
Really, really odd.  Wish I had another idea.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 25, 2012, 02:32:58 PM
Hya FLS:

It only happens with CT ON. If everything is OFF and plane is trimmed manually.....elevator trim doesnt move and plane flies leveled.

 I did a quick test in the 190D then repeated it in the P-51 and got the same result. I don't use CT enough to say if that's normal or related to the 20k altitude where I tested or if it needs adjustment by HTC. I believe I've flown level with combat trim before but I don't recall if it was more than a few seconds.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 25, 2012, 04:28:00 PM
I did a quick test in the 190D then repeated it in the P-51 and got the same result. I don't use CT enough to say if that's normal or related to the 20k altitude where I tested or if it needs adjustment by HTC. I believe I've flown level with combat trim before but I don't recall if it was more than a few seconds.

FLS ty for your test. So, are you having the same behaviour than me ?
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 25, 2012, 06:27:14 PM
FLS ty for your test. So, are you having the same behaviour than me ?

CT is the same in a P-51 so it isn't the Dora or your stick.

It seems like the CT is moving the trim up as the nose comes up but I can only guess why it starts to come up in the first place.  I would expect the CT to hold the nose level so it doesn't pitch up as the speed increases. Looks like a bug.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 26, 2012, 02:57:29 AM
I agree. Once the plane is leveled CT should keep it trimmed.

The elevator trim comes up in a exponential way.

Let's see what technical staff say about this.

I wanna say thanks a lot to you FLS, DEDRIOCK, KATANASO, FUZEMAN and SKUZZY for helping me (S)

Kovel
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 26, 2012, 04:46:18 AM
Since I don't know how the CT is coded I can't say for sure it's misbehaving. It's not an auto pilot. It sets the trim according to speed but if it only resets every 10 MPH for example then any acceleration after that will bring the nose up. Once the attitude changes it may just be trying to maintain the new attitude.  If it is a bug I'm sure it will get adjusted. If you use the auto level trim you don't have to worry about it.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 26, 2012, 05:20:31 AM
FLS, the problem is that even in fight my nose tries to go up...and its dificult to fight and aim..

Thanks
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 26, 2012, 06:45:19 AM
FLS, the problem is that even in fight my nose tries to go up...and its dificult to fight and aim..

Thanks

Just turn CT off when you enter the fight and don't worry about being a little out of trim.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: fuzeman on July 26, 2012, 08:52:27 AM
One more off the wall thought, have you remapped the CT command at all? Just making sure we are using the correct one instead of say for example, Trim Set.

COMBAT TRIM [CT] is KEY_X,CTRL
vs
TRIM SET is KEY_DOT

edit - using default keystrokes for above.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 26, 2012, 10:18:38 AM
I have CT ON/OFF mapped to my joy

I have also mapped the std keys:

 - COMBAT TRIM [CT] is KEY_X,CTRL

 - TRIM SET is KEY_DOT

Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 26, 2012, 10:23:10 AM
One more off the wall thought, have you remapped the CT command at all? Just making sure we are using the correct one instead of say for example, Trim Set.

COMBAT TRIM [CT] is KEY_X,CTRL
vs
TRIM SET is KEY_DOT

edit - using default keystrokes for above.

Watching the film will answer quite a few questions. Also as I mentioned, I'm seeing the same thing with my setup in both the 190D and the P-51.  Trim set would likely accomplish what he's trying to do with combat trim.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 26, 2012, 11:12:19 AM
I dont have the same problem in Hogs.

Another player has just told me that he has noticed it in P51s, but not in the 109s....hope it helps.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 26, 2012, 12:13:58 PM
I dont have the same problem in Hogs.

Another player has just told me that he has noticed it in P51s, but not in the 109s....hope it helps.

This is good to know. If it works like you expect for other aircraft it may just need adjusting for the 51 and 190D.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 28, 2012, 09:07:57 AM
I had time to test some other aircraft and they all do the same thing. It seems to be by design, the combat trim is not for hands off flying.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Skuzzy on July 29, 2012, 11:57:32 AM
I had time to test some other aircraft and they all do the same thing. It seems to be by design, the combat trim is not for hands off flying.

Try different loadouts in the same plane and see what happens.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 29, 2012, 01:04:12 PM
Try different loadouts in the same plane and see what happens.

Doh. Forgot weight isn't factored.  Thanks.   :salute
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Kovel on July 30, 2012, 07:03:15 AM
I'll try different loadouts as well, Skuzzy.

The problem is that in the last few days (lets say about 15) the Combat Trim seems too much agressive in the elevator trim (upwards).

As I said, I've found I have to pull negative G's to aim fire when I am slow (remember that the slower your plane is , the stronger upwards CT tendency  has).   
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: FLS on July 30, 2012, 07:25:19 AM
Kovel, Skuzzy's point is that the CT is only correct for one weight. Your weight changes as you burn fuel regardless of loadout so CT will generally not trim you for hands off level flight. It's not a bug, it's just not designed to do what auto level trim does.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Skuzzy on July 30, 2012, 08:31:07 AM
Kovel, Skuzzy's point is that the CT is only correct for one weight. Your weight changes as you burn fuel regardless of loadout so CT will generally not trim you for hands off level flight. It's not a bug, it's just not designed to do what auto level trim does.

Get this man a cookie.
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: fuzeman on July 30, 2012, 11:11:33 PM
Get this man a cookie.


(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff247/Unbyo/Funny/CHOCOLATE_CHIP_COOKIE.jpg)
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 31, 2012, 07:04:41 PM
Joystick was calibrated before the test.

make sure that you not only calibrate it in Windows but that you also calibrate your controls and axis in AH to ensure your controls are properly calibrated for the game.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Tracerfi on July 31, 2012, 07:19:21 PM

(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff247/Unbyo/Funny/CHOCOLATE_CHIP_COOKIE.jpg)
YYYYUUUUMMMMMMMM!!!!!
Title: Re: Is my FW190 D9 flying correctly?
Post by: Babalonian on August 03, 2012, 03:35:49 PM
Get this man a cookie.

Stole my line!  :devil


D9 is the same it's been with this recent patch (Kovel it's most likely because you're flying with a heavy aft tank)... the A8 though is another matter me and Bustr are still debating over.  (he's thinking WEP or powerplant up-tweak, I'm thinking somewhere along how it seems maybe more stable but it's probabley nothing at all (or, alternatively, how gramps got into my smoke box))