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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tracerfi on July 29, 2012, 04:57:12 PM

Title: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 29, 2012, 04:57:12 PM
why when you plane catches on fire you explode

 IE: B24s wings fall off after they catch on fire it seems unrealistic

I would appreciate some feed back
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: MK-84 on July 29, 2012, 05:44:51 PM
You're asking why an airplane can explode and break apart after they catch fire right?

Quick answer then :D  They are typically full of fuel, fuel is combustible.  Things that combust can damage the things that hold your wings on. 
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: DrBone1 on July 29, 2012, 05:45:32 PM
 :bhead
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 29, 2012, 05:49:54 PM
My problem is it happens to quickly   

In Real Life the planes did not explode as quickly
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Melvin on July 29, 2012, 05:51:06 PM
My problem is it happens to quickly   

In Real Life the planes did not explode as quickly


 :huh
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: DrBone1 on July 29, 2012, 05:51:29 PM
 :rofl
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Guppy35 on July 29, 2012, 05:59:08 PM
Don't kid yourself.  There were seconds to react by crewmen or they were dead.  The guys on a crew I researched spent a lot of time getting their time down from turret to bail out.  They figured it had to be under 5 seconds.  It proved it's worth as they took a Flak shell in the cockpit over Vienna and had to get out.  Only 5 of the 12 on board made it.  The guy I got to know and his buddy both used what they''d practiced to get out that fast.  It was instant reaction and they still almost got trapped riding the wreck down.  Sadly at least three were still alive and unwounded and rode it in to their deaths because they didn't have time to get out.

As for realistic. Note that of these 4 B24s, all burning and going down, only 1 of 40+ crew got out.  he was thrown out when it exploded but happened to have his chute on and survived.

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/fire4.jpg)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Fire3.jpg)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Fire2.jpg)

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Fire1.jpg)
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Rino on July 29, 2012, 06:59:12 PM
     I remember reading a book by a B-24 navigator flying with the 15th AF.  He said they used to count to 10 after being hit by
flak, if they hadn't exploded by then they figured they were ok.  Kind of brings it home, doesn't it.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: RedBull1 on July 29, 2012, 07:02:30 PM
Now there ARE stories of planes catching fire, and still making it home, I believe it was Memphis Belle? (correct me if I'm wrong) who caught fire, put it in a dive and used the high air speed to put the flames out? As well as the P47 who got jumped by 190's and flamed? The flames went out and he made it home eventually... I think it would be interesting to change the fire dynamic so as they are unpredictable, some will explode you or rip wings off, others might take seconds or a minute or 2 to kill you, others may just go out, of have the ability to be put out by high speeds? Maybe?




Oh, and just in case I am totally wrong   
(http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2009/01/flame_suit.jpg)
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Digr1 on July 29, 2012, 07:08:26 PM
110 octane av gas burns fast
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Guppy35 on July 29, 2012, 09:55:19 PM
Now there ARE stories of planes catching fire, and still making it home, I believe it was Memphis Belle? (correct me if I'm wrong) who caught fire, put it in a dive and used the high air speed to put the flames out? As well as the P47 who got jumped by 190's and flamed? The flames went out and he made it home eventually... I think it would be interesting to change the fire dynamic so as they are unpredictable, some will explode you or rip wings off, others might take seconds or a minute or 2 to kill you, others may just go out, of have the ability to be put out by high speeds? Maybe?




Oh, and just in case I am totally wrong   
(http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2009/01/flame_suit.jpg)

You've been watching too many movies :)

There were occasions where bombers tried to dive to put out fires.  It might work or it would have the opposite result in increasing the intensity of the fire and the wing burning off faster.  One of the things you come across often in stories of the bombers both RAF and USAAF is that many times planes came home short of crewmen as with the first damage guys would bail out before it was too late.  For gunners in the rear of the plane, there was often no knowing if the pilots were ok if there was a hit up front.

Using the example of the B24 crew I got to know.  Both pilots were killed by the flak shell in the cockpit.  Of the guys behind the bomb bay, only two made it out of the five back there.  One of the gunners, the youngest guy on the crew was last seen with his chute on, trying to contact the pilots to get permission to bail.  He wouldn't leave without it despite the effort of the two guys who did survive.

Images from "The Mighty Eighth" by Roger Freeman

First is a 17 that dove to put the fire out.  Pilot came home alone as the rest of the crew bailed.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Fire5.jpg)

I think the hard thing to understand for us cartoon pilots is we never face dying.  I imagine the will to survive is pretty strong under the circumstance.  The fire is spreading quick on this 17 and you gotta believe they are racing to get out.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/DGS%20Scenario%20bits/Fire6.jpg)
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: RedBull1 on July 29, 2012, 11:00:43 PM
Awesome stuff, Corky! Thanks a lot for the info bud  :cheers:  :rock  :salute
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: fbEagle on July 29, 2012, 11:03:09 PM
Quote
In Real Life the planes did not explode as quickly

I'm goona guess you've never seen 100LL burn have you.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: mike8318 on July 29, 2012, 11:38:05 PM
My problem is it happens to quickly   

In Real Life the planes did not explode as quickly

And you know this from first hand experence?
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 30, 2012, 08:27:14 AM
I'm goona guess you've never seen 100LL burn have you.
what is it
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Zoney on July 30, 2012, 10:33:32 AM
I think the explosions happen too fast myself.

Instead of KAABOOOM!


It should be more like, K   A   A   B   O   O   O   M   !
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Daddkev on July 30, 2012, 10:39:36 AM
 :huh :huh :huh my paper airplanes catch fire if the are in the sun. :(  :huh :huh :huh
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: sizzle22 on July 30, 2012, 04:25:11 PM
110 octane av gas burns fast


Actually the higher the octane rating the slower the fuel burns. ;)
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2012, 05:21:31 PM
In Real Life the planes did not explode as quickly

And you're an expert when it comes to all things aviation.  :rofl

Seriously, how do you know it's not realistic for a plane to explode quickly after being hit?

ack-ack
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 30, 2012, 05:23:38 PM
And you're an expert when it comes to all things aviation.  :rofl

Seriously, how do you know it's not realistic for a plane to explode quickly after being hit?

ack-ack
  Stop Flaming me Ive had enough
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: B4Buster on July 30, 2012, 05:26:09 PM
My problem is it happens to quickly   

In Real Life the planes did not explode as quickly

I'm sure you've been in a number of aircraft while they've been on fire.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Rino on July 30, 2012, 05:32:43 PM
what is it

     100 Octane Low Lead aviation fuel, the most common fuel used in general aviation aircraft. 
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2012, 05:52:26 PM
  Stop Flaming me Ive had enough

I asked you a question...how do know it's not realistic?  Don't try and dodge the answer...you're the one that made the claim it wasn't so I just want to know how you know it's not realistic.

ack-ack
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 30, 2012, 06:07:23 PM
I asked you a question...how do know it's not realistic?  Don't try and dodge the answer...you're the one that made the claim it wasn't so I just want to know how you know it's not realistic.

ack-ack
I do not I never heard of a plane catching fire that quickly
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 30, 2012, 06:14:46 PM
I do not I never heard of a plane catching fire that quickly

So because you've never heard of it, it must be unrealistic.  Weird logic.

ack-ack
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 30, 2012, 06:16:24 PM
So because you've never heard of it, it must be unrealistic.  Weird logic.

ack-ack
I am weird so it fits me
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Butcher on July 30, 2012, 06:16:29 PM
I do not I never heard of a plane catching fire that quickly

Youtube.com

Look up WW2 videos, there are a number and countless videos showing WW2 aircraft catching fire. Since you fail again at any research you simply won't understand.

I have a video somewhere if not posted on the 367thdynamitegang.com webiste showing a Zero getting caught by a P47-D11, not even soon after the guns started shooting the Zeke burst into flames and fall apart.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: SWkiljoy on July 30, 2012, 07:11:09 PM
:rofl
:rofl :aok
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: fbEagle on July 30, 2012, 10:59:16 PM
Quote
Actually the higher the octane rating the slower the fuel burns. Wink
I have an equation. Burn time = the number of flammable objects within close proximity squared. in conclusion, it burns damn quick.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: WING47 on July 30, 2012, 11:10:14 PM
Tracerfi, this sounds like a job for the... bum bum bu baa...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8RDJEjOPTJY/SgAH4o3tmPI/AAAAAAAADZo/VcQyORjYuQM/s400/whambulance.jpg)
seriously, it's a gameplay thing HTC did it so burning planes stopped shooting down the guy who caught him on fire.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Slash27 on July 30, 2012, 11:25:58 PM
I do not I never heard of a plane catching fire that quickly
Ask questions and listen. Guys like Dan will always provide you with you with accurate and very informative answers. They are true pillars of the AH community and should be looked up to and treated with due respect for sharing their knowledge with us. Much more so than any "FPH".
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: sizzle22 on July 31, 2012, 12:25:35 AM
I have an equation. Burn time = the number of flammable objects within close proximity squared. in conclusion, it burns damn quick.


not disagreeing with you but, high octane gasoline burns slower than low octane gasoline. The slow burn prevents engine knock when
cylinder pressures are high.....   :salute :cheers:
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: TheBug on July 31, 2012, 10:36:07 AM
Ask questions and listen. Guys like Dan will always provide you with you with accurate and very informative answers. They are true pillars of the AH community and should be looked up to and treated with due respect for sharing their knowledge with us. Much more so than any "FPH".

Nice post.   :salute
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Rino on July 31, 2012, 10:47:36 AM

not disagreeing with you but, high octane gasoline burns slower than low octane gasoline. The slow burn prevents engine knock when
cylinder pressures are high.....   :salute :cheers:

     That will make me feel alot better the next time my cartoon airplane catches fire  :D  Other than the Storch, don't most of the birds
in game use 100/130 or higher octane?  Heck some could use 115/145!  Ok, technically you can't have more than 100% iso-octane, so those
would be performance numbers instead of percentages :aok
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: RedBull1 on July 31, 2012, 03:24:28 PM
Ask questions and listen. Guys like Dan will always provide you with you with accurate and very informative answers. They are true pillars of the AH community and should be looked up to and treated with due respect for sharing their knowledge with us. Much more so than any "FPH".
Indeed... I have a question however,

Who the hell is Dan?  :rofl
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: TonyJoey on July 31, 2012, 03:26:19 PM
Indeed... I have a question however,

Who the hell is Dan?  :rofl

Guppy35/CorkyJr
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: RedBull1 on July 31, 2012, 03:27:31 PM
Oh, thanks  :cheers:

Use their bbs/in game ID's damnit, I can't memorize everyones name  :rofl
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: TonyJoey on July 31, 2012, 03:30:43 PM
Hence why mine are one in the same. Now you just need to figure out which one.  :)
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: B4Buster on July 31, 2012, 03:35:14 PM
100LL and the fumes from 100LL are highly flammable (much like Tracefi's posts). I can see, the fumes especially, coming in contact with flames being very devastating in an explosive way.

Some jet fuels on the other hand, not so much. I have heard of people dropping lit cagarettes into a tank of jet fuel without setting it off (it was done as a demonstration).
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: fbEagle on July 31, 2012, 07:07:26 PM
Quote
not disagreeing with you but, high octane gasoline burns slower than low octane gasoline. The slow burn prevents engine knock when
cylinder pressures are high.....   salute cheers

Yeah im well aware of this. I think that was day 2 of flight school when the new guy asked what would happen if he used automotive fuel in the plane. everyone in the room had this same look  :huh
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 31, 2012, 07:08:27 PM
Yeah im well aware of this. I think that was day 2 of flight school when the new guy asked what would happen if he used automotive fuel in the plane. everyone in the room had this same look  :huh
I am curious to know what would it do
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: ToeTag on July 31, 2012, 07:15:29 PM
it would still get you in the air.  But your engine would not like it.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on July 31, 2012, 07:16:35 PM
it would still get you in the air.  But your engine would not like it.

Automotive Fuel In Aeroplane =  Oh **** Right?
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: ToeTag on July 31, 2012, 07:18:48 PM
no the older aircraft can run av gas and auto gas.  It all goes boom in the right place at the right time but I would not do it unless my life depended on it.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Slash27 on July 31, 2012, 08:34:21 PM
Nice post.   :salute
Knew I had one in me. :D



 :salute
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: StabOps on July 31, 2012, 10:19:24 PM
100LL and the fumes from 100LL are highly flammable (much like Tracefi's posts). I can see, the fumes especially, coming in contact with flames being very devastating in an explosive way.

Some jet fuels on the other hand, not so much. I have heard of people dropping lit cagarettes into a tank of jet fuel without setting it off (it was done as a demonstration).

I've seen that same demonstration. Its the fumes that burn, the liquid in close proximity to the heat vaporizes and burns. It has to do with the condition (temp, pressure, and vapor pressure) of the liquid.

the whole group of veteran oilfield trash observing this demonstration ducked, turned, and unassed the area. Even after the explanation of why it wouldnt catch fire.

Stab
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 31, 2012, 10:42:56 PM
I'm honestly just amazed nobody's commented on the screw-up of the word "question" (or "questrion", as it were) in the title.
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Estes on July 31, 2012, 11:03:42 PM
This was as quick as I could get it.

(http://www.bargainist.com/deals/images/2011/08/hugh-jackman-horseback-riding-05.jpg)
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on August 01, 2012, 09:26:43 AM
I'm honestly just amazed nobody's commented on the screw-up of the word "question" (or "questrion", as it were) in the title.
well sorry Tank-Ace for that error I AM NOT PERFECT  :furious :bhead
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Butcher on August 01, 2012, 09:54:05 AM
I have a questrion, how come the sky is blue? water is wet?
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Shuffler on August 01, 2012, 12:09:24 PM
I've seen that same demonstration. Its the fumes that burn, the liquid in close proximity to the heat vaporizes and burns. It has to do with the condition (temp, pressure, and vapor pressure) of the liquid.

the whole group of veteran oilfield trash observing this demonstration ducked, turned, and unassed the area. Even after the explanation of why it wouldnt catch fire.

Stab

Pour gas in a coffee can.... just 1/4 full. Set can on ground and light it. It burns a nice little flame. now kick that can and watch what happens.  :rofl
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: tunnelrat on August 01, 2012, 12:20:53 PM
This was as quick as I could get it.

(http://www.bargainist.com/deals/images/2011/08/hugh-jackman-horseback-riding-05.jpg)

+1000 points for brain wavelength equivalency.

Not as quick, but....

(http://www.hpls.org/attachments/Image/equestrian.jpg)
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: Tracerfi on August 01, 2012, 12:22:29 PM
MY THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED I WILL CALL THE SKY MARSHAL
Title: Re: quick questrion
Post by: TonyJoey on August 01, 2012, 12:35:09 PM
MY THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED I WILL CALLED THE SKY MARSHAL

Have you taken an English class recently? Reading your posts makes me cringe.