Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ghi on July 31, 2012, 09:17:10 AM
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Last evening the news reported 300 milion affected, today is getting worst; they have 200 miners trapped underground :pray; I'm thinking how dependent of electricity we are; if this scenario would happen here, getting stuck in large cities at 5PM without traffic lights; in winter time my gas powered furnace wouldn't work without electricity, water is powered by electric pumps also, fridge, internet......
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/world/asia/power-outages-hit-600-million-in-india.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/31/india-power-outage.html
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40 years ago a power cut in India would have not distrubed anyone :old:
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Where were you in The Great Ice Storm of 1998?
Then there was the Northeast blackout of 2003 and before that the Northeast blackout of 1965.
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The storms here in the US have been intense this year with many temporary outages. I have my RV full of gas so I can run my generator if need be. We lost power a few weeks back and my Wife and I spent the night in the RV with the AC on because of the heat wave.
Energy is king. Anyone interested in so called free energy check this site out: www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/)
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Where were you in The Great Ice Storm of 1998?
Then there was the Northeast blackout of 2003 and before that the Northeast blackout of 1965.
EDIT: never mind i was thinking of something else
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The storms here in the US have been intense this year with many temporary outages. I have my RV full of gas so I can run my generator if need be. We lost power a few weeks back and my Wife and I spent the night in the RV with the AC on because of the heat wave.
Energy is king. Anyone interested in so called free energy check this site out: www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/)
i had heard that you guys lost power out that way. it still pisses me off, even though i didn't lose power this year. in this day and age of technology, there is absolutley ZERO excuse for customers to lose power for more than an hour or so....and i'm being generous with that. unless of course the power station or substation is under water.
even when one mentions trees taking down wires, if you're old enough, you will remember when the power companies had crews out constantly, trimming things away from their power lines.
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Cap,
You have no clue. None,zip,nada,zero.
Stay with cars cause you have no idea what your talking about.
I've been a lineman for 23 years and while there is always room to improve, dealing with storms, outages, equipment failures will always take time to accomplish.
Your assumptions are based on ignorance.
Anytime you think you can do better, run down here. I've gotta set of hooks and all the 40-60 foot poles you could imagine. Climb a few in good weather and lets see what you can accomplish. Then do it in a storm.
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The government runs India's power grid. :bhead
Nuff said. :frown:
:pray Miners
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Cap,
You have no clue. None,zip,nada,zero.
Stay with cars cause you have no idea what your talking about.
I've been a lineman for 23 years and while there is always room to improve, dealing with storms, outages, equipment failures will always take time to accomplish.
Your assumptions are based on ignorance.
Anytime you think you can do better, run down here. I've gotta set of hooks and all the 40-60 foot poles you could imagine. Climb a few in good weather and lets see what you can accomplish. Then do it in a storm.
I don't think Cap was railing against linemen, but against power companies who may be skimping on numbers of crews and stalling on preventative maintenance to save money. <S> for the work you do Sim, in all kinds of weather. Tough and dangerous work under the best conditions.
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India because of false claims that coal is responsible for pollutants and global warming has cut back on coal. Several coal plants sit idle because of not having coal for fuel. If they were ready as a backup they would not have the problem they do.
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you apparently think what i said was/is a shot at you guys that actually do the work. it wasn't, and if i insulted you i apologize. i'm not gonna get into a pissing match with ya.
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I don't think Cap was railing against linemen, but against power companies who may be skimping on numbers of crews and stalling on preventative maintenance to save money. <S> for the work you do Sim, in all kinds of weather. Tough and dangerous work under the best conditions.
you nailed it sir.
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You don't put your power lines into the ground these days?
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Where were you in The Great Ice Storm of 1998?
In 1st grade in New Hampshire.
I loved not going to school and building a massive snow fort.
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What may be funny about this article is that half of that number (610 million) may never have had power to begin with.
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I wonder if when they call for service... they get an American. :rofl
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Cap,
You have no clue. None,zip,nada,zero.
Stay with cars cause you have no idea what your talking about.
I've been a lineman for 23 years and while there is always room to improve, dealing with storms, outages, equipment failures will always take time to accomplish.
Your assumptions are based on ignorance.
Anytime you think you can do better, run down here. I've gotta set of hooks and all the 40-60 foot poles you could imagine. Climb a few in good weather and lets see what you can accomplish. Then do it in a storm.
It also might be that the power grid in this country is generally in a state of decay. The fact that the vast majority of our power lines are still above ground is just one sign of the age.
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I wonder if when they call for service... they get an American. :rofl
:rofl
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I wonder if when they call for service... they get an American. :rofl
:rofl :rofl i know someone who has called for customer service and got someone from i think it was Jamaica
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Connecticut Light and Power dropped the ball so bad last October that much of Connecticut State was without power for a week or more. We had a very early snow storm hit while all the trees still had leaves, which made whole trees come down en masse. During the storm, you could hear trees breaking, falling and hitting buildings, cars, etc.
I was without power for 9 days and I saw it all; people fighting over food, gasoline, and generators that I am now convinced I need a gun in case the situation ever arises again. I've never owned one before, but I realize that we are one storm away from complete chaos. I was in a bad situation, I had a generator but I needed to run it 24/7 because my wife's grandmother was living us because she was on oxygen and needed the power for her concentrator (she had no power at her home either). At the end of the 9 day stretch, I killed my generator (it was pushing oil through the exhaust), one that was purchased (coil broke down), and I was on my 3rd unit that was borrowed.
The Gen Manger of CL&P was fired, the company had to give back 30 million to the customers and they were forced by court order to set aside money for tree trimming that they cut from their original budget (which made the storm worse). In addition, all gas stations had to have back up generators and more centers to house people without power would be made available.
I feel the pain the country of India is going through... I don't blame the lineman either. In fact during the storm I mentioned above, people were so irate that a few CL&P workers needed to have police escort as people wanted to lynch them.
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lol few years ago central Florida got hit with 3 hurricanes within a 30 mile radius, no power for over 3 weeks in my area alone, at the time I had well water which I ran on a generator for few hours a day just for a shower, dish washing and clothes.
I missed american IDOL, should of sued the hell out of the electric company, it was simply devastating time to go through.
/Actually it didn't matter, I still went to work and came home - I simply didn't have anything in the fridge to eat or freezer.
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What may be funny about this article is that half of that number (610 million) may never have had power to begin with.
You have a link for reference?
Btw, for those keeping track this is the worst blackout ever recorded in terms of people affected.
Regards,
Sun
The July 2012 India blackout is a power outage that began on 30 July 2012 at 2:48 AM (IST) (21:18 GMT) in northern India, affecting 14 states,[1] followed by another power outage on 31 July, that began at 1:02 PM (IST) (7:32 GMT), affecting 20 states. This blackout is the world's worst blackout in history, affecting an area with a population of over 600 million people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_northern_India_power_grid_failure
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And now every tech support call goes unanswered... uh oh..
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It also might be that the power grid in this country is generally in a state of decay. The fact that the vast majority of our power lines are still above ground is just one sign of the age.
Is it easier to maintain cables above the ground and are there heat problems being underground?
I think investment is the problem with the power infra structure of the US, capital out lay for a efficient and stable power grid is not viable when customer's require lower prices for power and the investor require dividends.
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i dunno. when i call crapcast, i get an american sounding person, and the last time, she was disgustingly friendly and helpful. same with t-mobile.
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I'm just glad that most of Texas is on it's own grid and not tied into those up northeast.
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Overhead lines are much easier to maintain. And restoration is a lot faster in general when there is an outage.
To repair underground lines you must first locate the fault in the line, then dig up the fault, make repairs. Doesn't sound like much time but it can be hours. Where an overhead line can be fixed much more quickly just because you don't have to locate a problem hidden underground.
What you will not hear in the news is how expensive and time consuming it is to convert an overhead system to underground. Someone is going to argue with me, but they aren't thinking thru all the problems to be encountered.
In ANY city where there are other utilities with underground line, underground power lines are automatically at risk. Every time a gas company runs a new line or the water company adds a service, a cable company even looks in the area, the power lines will get nicked, cut, dug up.......Lots of times the other utilities crews will NOT turn in the fact that they hit electrical lines. The lines don't necessarily go bad at that instance. So when the lines DO go bad and a cable tv line is found in close proximity, there is no way to prove who cut the line. That translates into lost funds for the power company as they have no way to recoup the spent money.
Why should the power company spend its money to put everything underground? That's just about like asking HTC to pay your cable bill so you can play AH.
By all means, build a new city? Put lines underground right then! That is how most subdivisions are done in this area now. But ya know something? Every time a line goes bad in an yard, for whatever reason, we get slammed for having to dig up one customers yard to repair another's power. One transformer may feed 8-10 different customers so the lines cross multiple lots at times.
There is NO easy answer. Its a nightmare at every turn.
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Its got ot be safer having cables high above ground like we have in the UK, hundreds of miles of cables underground as has been stated is going to at one time or another be interupted by accidental damage or some silly sod.
I know if you have a electricty pylon next to your house your house is worth £3.50p because of the health risk associated with magnetic fields.
We have a problem in the UK people stealng power cables etc, they regularly get burnt to a crisp which is reinforcing Darwins theory of evolution.
In the UK you could put solar panels on you roof and sell it to the excess power companies at a good profit, but the companies said if the amount of people doing it incresaes thier share prices would be affected, the government passed a law to stop this and save the loss of revenue to the power companies. :old:
The use of solar,wind power is a good way to go but the monopoly for the power companies is not going to allow for proper investment.
Imagine all those solar panels in the American deserts,
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above ground is the way to go.......but the companies need to go back to having crews out there. that would lessen the necessity of people like you to have to go up on a pole in crappy weather.
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I'm thinking how dependent of electricity we are; if this scenario would happen here
Look up a book called "One Second After". It is chilling to realize just how badly it would hit the US if the loss was prolonged.
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We have a problem in the UK people stealing power cables etc, they regularly get burnt to a crisp which is reinforcing Darwins theory of evolution.
Here the "kritters" break into substations and try to cut the grounds on the equipment. Copper theft is a thriving institution here in the states.
The problem is that the crooks just cant fathom how much load is on a transformer and that when they cut that ground they stand a chance of frying as a french fry in a greasy cooker.
Then you have the other "superhero-wannabes" that climb poles for the rush....do a search for electrical flash on youtube.....there are videos of the insane there.
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Here the "kritters" break into substations and try to cut the grounds on the equipment. Copper theft is a thriving institution here in the states.
The problem is that the crooks just cant fathom how much load is on a transformer and that when they cut that ground they stand a chance of frying as a french fry in a greasy cooker.
Then you have the other "superhero-wannabes" that climb poles for the rush....do a search for electrical flash on youtube.....there are videos of the insane there.
Yep us Americans can be pretty Damn stupid
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Y
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_northern_India_power_grid_failure
The Earth was hit by a CME in last 24 hours also, but was weak;http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/rt_plots/kp_3d.html
If you look at the time of the 1st grid failure from your link ;
02:48, 30 July 2012 (+05:30)-
20:30, 31 July 2012 (+05:30)
India Standard time zone: UTC/GMT +5:30 hours;
here in a link University of Delaware,in UTC time http://neutronm.bartol.udel.edu/spaceweather/welcome.html
space weather monitoring showing the cosmic rays density; This cosmic rays charts are not monitoring the activity from the Sun;
See the chart from 15;00 UTC to 24:00 UTC july 29th some kind of strong EMP from deep space hit the Earth, about same time with first grid failure in India ;
(http://www.bartol.udel.edu/~takao/fig/GraphFrac.png)
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The Earth was hit by a CME in last 24 hour
whats a CME
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The Earth was hit by a CME in last 24 hours also, but was weak;http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/rt_plots/kp_3d.html
If you look at the time of the 1st grid failure from your link ;
02:48, 30 July 2012 (+05:30)-
20:30, 31 July 2012 (+05:30)
India Standard time zone: UTC/GMT +5:30 hours;
here in a link University of Delaware,in UTC time http://neutronm.bartol.udel.edu/spaceweather/welcome.html
space weather monitoring showing the cosmic rays density; This cosmic rays charts are not monitoring the activity from the Sun;
See the chart from 15;00 UTC to 24:00 UTC july 29th some kind of strong EMP from deep space hit the Earth, about same time with first grid failure in India ;
(http://www.bartol.udel.edu/~takao/fig/GraphFrac.png)
Tholians? :uhoh
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4EFgWU6k9eM/TLTtrKhrZZI/AAAAAAAAAIE/7GZAVjuCB1A/s1600/tholian.jpg)
:noid
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whats a CME
coronal mass ejection ;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection
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the mayans were right were all gonna die!!!!!!!!! :cry
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coronal mass ejection ;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection
so the sun uuummm.....uuhhh.......it.... ....uumm..nevermind........
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so the sun uuummm.....uuhhh.......it.... ....uumm..nevermind........
Burped. :aok
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This is an active year for the sun and India's power grid is probably looks like a whole house full of spiderwebs.
When you count all those bizarre and crappy connections in the urban areas, you have a lot of potential for inductance.
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India is probly 98% rural and only thing affected was thier VCR or Betamax video cassette recorders :old:
I make a point of not going to a country people are trying to get out from Flippen heck a lot of Brits run off to the US,Newzealand and Australia :rofl
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This is an active year for the sun and India's power grid is probably looks like a whole house full of spiderwebs.
When you count all those bizarre and crappy connections in the urban areas, you have a lot of potential for inductance.
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_583/12977881479P1k0S.jpg)
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You don't put your power lines into the ground these days?
In some places we do.
In my neighborhood we have to have above ground lines because of how wet the earth is. ( I live across the street from a stream) That and the water table is only 10-15 below the surface.
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Cap,
You have no clue. None,zip,nada,zero.
Stay with cars cause you have no idea what your talking about.
I've been a lineman for 23 years and while there is always room to improve, dealing with storms, outages, equipment failures will always take time to accomplish.
Your assumptions are based on ignorance.
Anytime you think you can do better, run down here. I've gotta set of hooks and all the 40-60 foot poles you could imagine. Climb a few in good weather and lets see what you can accomplish. Then do it in a storm.
In my area they just trimmed trees for the first time in 12-13 years. Wires were in a lot of the trees. I have never seen anyone come and inspectect anything until after something has already happened. No preventative maintainence...
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In my area they just trimmed trees for the first time in 12-13 years. Wires were in a lot of the trees. I have never seen anyone come and inspectect anything until after something has already happened. No preventative maintainence...
i've lived here in south jersey all my life, with the exception of being with my ex-wife in philly for 9 of those years.
when i was a kid, it would seem that there were crews out every few months. they'd trim anything that was anywhere near their lines. my grand mother used to go out to them and offer them something to drink when they were near our house. they'd often take a few minutes and chat with her....
in donig this, there was rarely if ever any power outages caused by trees interfering with power lines. THIS is why i get pissed when i see power outages over here. that's usually what's caused them. last year, i was a day without electricity, thanks to hurricane irene. she was 20 miles offshore, and i'm 55 miles inland. how the hell did that kill power in my area?
the year before i was without power for 3 days. a few of us in the neighborhood were sharing our generators with each other to ease the effects. that was in june, and was from heavy rain. the stated reason was falling trees, 'cause they're old. well guess what? if they were TRIMMED, or removed when one of the crews noted that they were old enough to be a possible problem, then it would never have happened.
that's what i was getting at in my original response. i admire the guys that have the balls to climb up those poles, and work near all that voltage. i know you ain't gettin me near that crap. but why did/do the power companies need to skimp on keeping their stuff maintained? they've got the money, and i'm sure there's quite a few qualified people that could use the work.
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CAP, there is a long list of reasons why you don't see tree crews out and about as much as in times past.
My personal experiences cover many different situations, but a lot of those have a common thread......ignorance.
As a company builds in lines, they have to get right-of-way agreements with landowners so that they can cross the properties, whether overhead or underground. Those agreements contain clauses that guarantee the utility access to their equipment and facilities. Most companies have that clause contained in the service agreement customers sign when they apply for service. This has happened for YEARS. In some municipalities, the city may have right-of-way already set so the utility can build within that area without having to get one of their own.
Now say Farmer John has a field that the power company wants to build a line across. A rep from the company contacts Farmer John and negotiates the right-of-way agreement. Farmer John signs it and things go smoothly for both for years. One day Farmer John drops dead with a 30mm tater wound from some wayward firing Luftweener. His property is sold to a developer and then a couple of hundred track houses pop up on the property. As the houses are built the developer plants lots of flowers, trees, puts in a pool, walking path.....on and on, to sell those homes. People buy those homes left and right because they see a nice community for their families. Once in their new home they decide to put up privacy fences, add a few trees to the back of the property as a windbreak....
Time passes and those trees grow, right up into the power lines. So the power company comes out to do trimming. Guess what happens next? A lawsuit is filed because the power company dared trim the trees planted RIGHT UNDER THE LINES. Care to guess who wins in this situation? The lawyers most often. The power company gets smeared because it was doing what needed to be done to provide the electricity the customer needs and is paying for. The customer ends up mad at the power company for trimming the trees the customer planted under the lines and in the right-of-way. So the power company gets slammed from both sides of the fence, even tho they are staying withing the right-of-way agreement that has been in place for years prior to the subdivision being built. And, ya know what else? The developer knew about the agreement, its mentioned in the property plats and sales articles, as well as the ones the homeowners signed when they bought the home.
So now the power company is getting slammed for trimming those trees, so they back off a bit. It sucks, but how many lawsuits, in this day and age of "political correctness", can a company fight before they start getting hurt on (and God I hate this place) Wall Street?
Its a double edged sword for the customers and power company alike.
Someone is once again going to bring up underground lines......remember a few lines before I mentioned customers putting in pools and fences, AND trees? Well, how many of those customers bothered to get a location service out to their property before they dung in to plant those trees? In my state it is a free service mandated by the state. The power companies all put in money to provide that service, FREE TO THE CUSTOMER. Heck, there is an ad about it in the front of the phonebook! Power companies advertise it all the time and still those customers don't call for it.
So they dig and hit the lines, sometimes not even seeing the damage they have caused. The lines don't necessarily part, so the power goes uninterrupted for some time. then the lines finally part and a customer down the street ends up without power. Out comes the power company to dig in a yard up the street. Now you have a customer mad because their power is out, and another mad because they have a mudhole in their front yard, that they sodded in the spring, next to their wonderful Bradley Pear tree. Its not the individual that planted the tree/fence/pool that takes the heat, its the power company. So who is ultimately at fault? Most times the power company ends up paying to have a landscaper fix the yard to the homeowners liking(at least back as good as it was). The question here is who pays for the damages/crews doing the work? Why should the company pay for it? They didn't cause the situation.
Those are examples of what I see happen on a maddening basis. I am not an idiot that thinks power companies don't hold back to keep the cash flowing. My gripes there are WAY too numerous to post. But I do think there are many times that the power company takes more lumps than they should.
Folks, please excuse the long post, but most people just don't realize all that is involved when this subject comes up.
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SIM,
Thanks for the post, I think you probably cleared up a lot of stuff for people there. I have friend down the street that does a similiar job as well. A very thankless job in many respects, I for one do appreciate the hard work :aok
:salute
BigRat
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CAP, there is a long list of reasons why you don't see tree crews out and about as much as in times past.
My personal experiences cover many different situations, but a lot of those have a common thread......ignorance.
As a company builds in lines, they have to get right-of-way agreements with landowners so that they can cross the properties, whether overhead or underground. Those agreements contain clauses that guarantee the utility access to their equipment and facilities. Most companies have that clause contained in the service agreement customers sign when they apply for service. This has happened for YEARS. In some municipalities, the city may have right-of-way already set so the utility can build within that area without having to get one of their own.
Now say Farmer John has a field that the power company wants to build a line across. A rep from the company contacts Farmer John and negotiates the right-of-way agreement. Farmer John signs it and things go smoothly for both for years. One day Farmer John drops dead with a 30mm tater wound from some wayward firing Luftweener. :rofl :roflnow THAT's funny... His property is sold to a developer and then a couple of hundred track houses pop up on the property. As the houses are built the developer plants lots of flowers, trees, puts in a pool, walking path.....on and on, to sell those homes. People buy those homes left and right because they see a nice community for their families. Once in their new home they decide to put up privacy fences, add a few trees to the back of the property as a windbreak....
Time passes and those trees grow, right up into the power lines. So the power company comes out to do trimming. Guess what happens next? A lawsuit is filed because the power company dared trim the trees planted RIGHT UNDER THE LINES. Care to guess who wins in this situation? The lawyers most often. The power company gets smeared because it was doing what needed to be done to provide the electricity the customer needs and is paying for. The customer ends up mad at the power company for trimming the trees the customer planted under the lines and in the right-of-way. So the power company gets slammed from both sides of the fence, even tho they are staying withing the right-of-way agreement that has been in place for years prior to the subdivision being built. And, ya know what else? The developer knew about the agreement, its mentioned in the property plats and sales articles, as well as the ones the homeowners signed when they bought the home.this kind of crap pisses me off. i saw crap like this around local airports, wherew people move in right under the pattern....then complain.
So now the power company is getting slammed for trimming those trees, so they back off a bit. It sucks, but how many lawsuits, in this day and age of "political correctness", can a company fight before they start getting hurt on (and God I hate this place) Wall Street?
Its a double edged sword for the customers and power company alike.
Someone is once again going to bring up underground lines......remember a few lines before I mentioned customers putting in pools and fences, AND trees? Well, how many of those customers bothered to get a location service out to their property before they dung in to plant those trees? In my state it is a free service mandated by the state. The power companies all put in money to provide that service, FREE TO THE CUSTOMER. Heck, there is an ad about it in the front of the phonebook! Power companies advertise it all the time and still those customers don't call for it. this is a free service in nj too, but most people i talk to refuse to call, because it's their property, so why should they? they don't wanna hear about the stuff under the ground.
So they dig and hit the lines, sometimes not even seeing the damage they have caused. The lines don't necessarily part, so the power goes uninterrupted for some time. then the lines finally part and a customer down the street ends up without power. Out comes the power company to dig in a yard up the street. Now you have a customer mad because their power is out, and another mad because they have a mudhole in their front yard, that they sodded in the spring, next to their wonderful Bradley Pear tree. Its not the individual that planted the tree/fence/pool that takes the heat, its the power company. So who is ultimately at fault? Most times the power company ends up paying to have a landscaper fix the yard to the homeowners liking(at least back as good as it was). The question here is who pays for the damages/crews doing the work? Why should the company pay for it? They didn't cause the situation.
Those are examples of what I see happen on a maddening basis. I am not an idiot that thinks power companies don't hold back to keep the cash flowing. My gripes there are WAY too numerous to post. But I do think there are many times that the power company takes more lumps than they should.
Folks, please excuse the long post, but most people just don't realize all that is involved when this subject comes up.
i actually appreciate this post. i'm also glad you realize i wasn't taking a shot at people that do what you do. reading the above though, makes it make more sense. :salute
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SIM,
Thanks for the post, I think you probably cleared up a lot of stuff for people there. I have friend down the street that does a similiar job as well. A very thankless job in many respects, I for one do appreciate the hard work :aok
:salute
BigRat
same here. like i said, my grand mom used to be out offering the guys drinks when they came around. if i'm home, and see em working, i do the same. i appreciate what other people do.
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The kind of situation simm describes is impossible here. Utilitiy easements are right in the survey and are non-negotiable. No permanant structures can be built on the easement and access must be granted by the landowner at all times. Yet... The local power company appears to be on about a ten year maintaince schedule and seem content on putting bandaids on gaping wounds rather than investing in prevention. Consumer's Energy doesn't even do their own trimming anymore; they sub it out...
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Cap and BigRat,
I tell ya....there's nothing like being up a pole on hooks or in a bucket and having lightening pop nearby!
Nor is there anything more humbling than having someone who's home has been destroyed during a hurricane, bother to come out and offer men a drink of their water because of the heat. That goes such a long way on my job........
I was in Bogalusa Louisiana right after Katrina and during Rita(riding out Rita in a picnic shelter was a hell of a ride!). Worked Jeanne in Tampa and Plant City Florida. Was in Virginia chasing Irene out. Clarkesville Indiana and Louisville Kentucky on Ike. The list goes on.....Gotta mention HUGO....it was here at home.....
I couldn't ever really tell ya what the best or worst part of the job might be, its too hard to remember all the times.........
So come on Cap, I'll take ya for a bucket ride if those hooks worry ya!
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Cap and BigRat,
I tell ya....there's nothing like being up a pole on hooks or in a bucket and having lightening pop nearby!
Nor is there anything more humbling than having someone who's home has been destroyed during a hurricane, bother to come out and offer men a drink of their water because of the heat. That goes such a long way on my job........
I was in Bogalusa Louisiana right after Katrina and during Rita(riding out Rita in a picnic shelter was a hell of a ride!). Worked Jeanne in Tampa and Plant City Florida. Was in Virginia chasing Irene out. Clarkesville Indiana and Louisville Kentucky on Ike. The list goes on.....Gotta mention HUGO....it was here at home.....
I couldn't ever really tell ya what the best or worst part of the job might be, its too hard to remember all the times.........
So come on Cap, I'll take ya for a bucket ride if those hooks worry ya!
ya know? i can honestly tell ya that that would scare the everloving crap outta me.....enough to give you laughing fits for at least a year.
that said, i'd love to do it at least once.
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Yet... The local power company appears to be on about a ten year maintaince schedule and seem content on putting bandaids on gaping wounds rather than investing in prevention
Ever gone through the permit process to build or expand a power generating facility? I have.
Go spend 5 years to bring a peak plant into your neighborhood, deal with the real need to improve the power grid, deal with the bureaucracy of the governing agency, then the environmentalists, then the nimby, then tell me why 5 years later the project was killed by the community that demanded new homes and improved quality. Yep, those greedy rat bastages at the power companies are just going out of their way to limit power. Umm, they make money if they get you power, think about it.
What "appears to be" isn't always what the reality of it is. Now, if you'd like to discuss facts based on your real experience, I'd be happy to compare regional differences in how the power generation system works out here, but I won't be discussing facts while you argue assumptions and guesses.
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You sure do dodge the subject, huh? No one ecxept you is talking about power generation, building power plants, consumption, expansion or improving the quality of existing grids. What is being discussed is the upkeep and maintaince of and mainly the trimming of trees around overhead wires. In this area, tree trimming is such an afterthought that the power company actually subs it out. They seem to be on about a ten year schedule. Mostly though, what they do is cut up the trees that fall on the wires. After power has been disrupted.
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So tell me Skilless,
What do you know as a "good" versus "bad" maintenance schedule? Or what is a band-aid repair? Care to elaborate on your experience?
I ask because i hear those terms ALL the time mainly from folks who really don't know what their talking about, and not those who are willing to listen and think for a few minutes.
So please, by all means enlighten me.
P.S. Complaining about a company using sub-contractors really smacks of someone from a union instead of a concerned customer......
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Tell you what... On my way home tonight I'll take some pictures of a few examples of what I consider unacceptable maintaince.
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Now who is dodging a question or subject?
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SIM... Do you own a power company or something? This sure is a touchy subject for you. I'm not telling you that YOU are doing a bad job. I'm not saying that the company that YOU work for is doing a bad job. I'm saying that the power company here has some pretty crazy ideas of what comprises preventive maintaince, and low and behold, we sure get A LOT of power outages.
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Like I said Skilless, who is dodging the question now?
Come on, show some reasonable amount of knowledge about what you are trying to describe as shoddy maintenance, or ask whether what you think is right or wrong.
Yeah its a touchy subject for me, but not one time here have I avoided a comment.
You Sir, are skill-less so far.
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skilless....i think it's touchy for sim, 'cause he gets to be the one going up a 60' or higher pole around stupid amounts of current flow in 45mph winds, rain, snow, and all that other watermelon most people don't like doing things like that in.
then to top it off, i'm sure he's had more than one person standing down below calling him all kinds of names as he tries to restore their power........
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I'm certainly do not disparage anyone's job especially someone I don't even know. However, All I've said is that it is a apparent that here locally normal and obvious maintaince is not being done at a cost of reliable service. In the last month I have lost power at least six times.. Sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes for hours.
As promised, just a few sites from my drive home. In each picture, whether visible or not, tree branches are laying directly on the wires...
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0402.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0403.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0404.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0405.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0406.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0407.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0408.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/IMAG0409.jpg)
These are all within a seven mile trip on a main state highway. Many within five miles of a Consumer's Energy maintenance hub.
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Thanks for proving my theory in a public manner.
Some of those wires are telephone and cable tv lines. Others are called "tree-wire" Care to guess why?
Your opinion of a bandaid may actually be an instance of a working design.
Basically, while there may actually be a problem there, You Sir, wouldn't know one way or the other.
Picture # 1 appears to be several telephone trunk lines......not the power companies
#2 - is secondary conductors.
#3 - appears to be "tree-wire" again. I'll explain that in a minute. Just so you have time to try and figure out the why and what definition.
#4 - open wire secondary or tree-wire with cable tv below and telephone trunk on bottom.
#5 - Same as #4 but a different shot of trees.
#6 - secondary lines on top, cable tv and telephone trunk on bottom.
#7 - same as #6 but a different pole.
#8 - telephone trunk/services and cable tv lines.
So as an answer to your concerns and adamant attempt at finding fault with the power company. Once again you are skill-less.
Secondary power lines are generally low voltage lines that bring 240volts to a home. The two "hot" legs of the line are insulated and wrapped around a common neutral. Its called "triplex".
Secondary lines can lay in a tree for YEARS without giving so much as a flicker of trouble. the big problem with those secondaries in trees is squirrels! So what do you propose? Charge the power company for not beginning a squirrel eradication plan? I would LOVE to see a plan like that simply because the bulk of the outages I see on a daily basis are caused by SQUIRRELS!
Tree-wire: Its primary lines that are designed to be used in heavily forested areas. The primary cable is encased in a "plastic" shell that prevents contact between the cable and trees. if that line is broken and hit the ground, it is designed so that the cable itself will burn into the plastic covering and isolate the voltage.
Open wire secondary: secondary lines that are generally NOT insulated. In my area they are normally found in stacks of three and may span several poles distance to provide power. A single transformer will power these lines for a distance, then there is a break with another transformer providing voltage from there on several more spans.
Im not going to explain cable tv lines to you as that is NOT my area of expertise, nor will I get into telephone trunk lines.
Your photos are not the best so I reserve the right to be wrong on some of these......... But I bet Im not.
Next?
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Right now I feel like this is necessary folks, please forgive me....
I WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYONE WHO IS PATENTLY STUPID ENOUGH TO APPROACH A POWER LINE OR SUPPOSED POWER LINE!
That stuff is dangerous enough when working with rubber gloves and gear made for the task, so be smart and call the power company when you see lines down, hanging low, or burning. If its a wire, leave it alone. If you THINK it might be electrical, leave it alone and call the power company.
Electricity is the only thing you cant see, taste or feel until its too late.
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Right now I feel like this is necessary folks, please forgive me....
I WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYONE WHO IS PATENTLY STUPID ENOUGH TO APPROACH A POWER LINE OR SUPPOSED POWER LINE!
That stuff is dangerous enough when working with rubber gloves and gear made for the task, so be smart and call the power company when you see lines down, hanging low, or burning. If its a wire, leave it alone. If you THINK it might be electrical, leave it alone and call the power company.
Electricity is the only thing you cant see, taste or feel until its too late.
dude......some of us at least you don't have to say that to. :aok
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On a further note....
Secondary lines are generally left until such time as a problem arises. Its actually pretty simple to understand why secondary lines have trees on them and nothing is done.
Trees grow daily....right? Limbs expand and lengthen.
If a company spent resources and time chasing every instance of a tree limb on secondaries, what would it cost? Id bet it would break the company is a short period. So why should the power company run after every tree limb on secondaries?
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So why should the power company run after every tree limb on secondaries?
Especially since it's usually the property owner, city, or some local landscaping and lighting district that is responsible for the trees, and may, "MAY", contract back to the utility to service them, depending on their budget which might be simply nothing more than an every 10 year trimming. Ya, but it's always easier to simply blame the greedy power company before actually looking at the real answer :)
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simply because the bulk of the outages I see on a daily basis are caused by SQUIRRELS!
Squirrels have to charge their cameras somehow? :D
I also got a lot of respect for people who work on the lines, I know for Hurricane Irene they were even nice enough to take notice that we were running a generator and actually went to our door to inform us the power was back. :salute
Its not a job I think I could do, especially getting to witness how a transformer can pop. (I happened to be walking under the pole it was sitting on at the time too, nearly had to change my pants :eek:)
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Thanks for proving my theory in a public manner.
Some of those wires are telephone and cable tv lines. Others are called "tree-wire" Care to guess why?
Your opinion of a bandaid may actually be an instance of a working design.
Basically, while there may actually be a problem there, You Sir, wouldn't know one way or the other.
Picture # 1 appears to be several telephone trunk lines......not the power companies
#2 - is secondary conductors.
#3 - appears to be "tree-wire" again. I'll explain that in a minute. Just so you have time to try and figure out the why and what definition.
#4 - open wire secondary or tree-wire with cable tv below and telephone trunk on bottom.
#5 - Same as #4 but a different shot of trees.
#6 - secondary lines on top, cable tv and telephone trunk on bottom.
#7 - same as #6 but a different pole.
#8 - telephone trunk/services and cable tv lines.
So as an answer to your concerns and adamant attempt at finding fault with the power company. Once again you are skill-less.
Secondary power lines are generally low voltage lines that bring 240volts to a home. The two "hot" legs of the line are insulated and wrapped around a common neutral. Its called "triplex".
Secondary lines can lay in a tree for YEARS without giving so much as a flicker of trouble. the big problem with those secondaries in trees is squirrels! So what do you propose? Charge the power company for not beginning a squirrel eradication plan? I would LOVE to see a plan like that simply because the bulk of the outages I see on a daily basis are caused by SQUIRRELS!
Tree-wire: Its primary lines that are designed to be used in heavily forested areas. The primary cable is encased in a "plastic" shell that prevents contact between the cable and trees. if that line is broken and hit the ground, it is designed so that the cable itself will burn into the plastic covering and isolate the voltage.
Open wire secondary: secondary lines that are generally NOT insulated. In my area they are normally found in stacks of three and may span several poles distance to provide power. A single transformer will power these lines for a distance, then there is a break with another transformer providing voltage from there on several more spans.
Im not going to explain cable tv lines to you as that is NOT my area of expertise, nor will I get into telephone trunk lines.
Your photos are not the best so I reserve the right to be wrong on some of these......... But I bet Im not.
Next?
a man who knows what the hell he is talking about.....I don't but he certainly does :aok
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Here the power companies trim back trees all the time on their lines by Law (Electricity Act, 1998).
TREES CAUSED THE AUGUST 14, 2003 BLACKOUT: A tree on a right-of-way in Ohio came into contact with a power line and triggered the blackout of August 2003. The North American Electricity Reliability Corporation (NERC) investigation* following the blackout found that if the company that owned the line had maintained its right-of-way, the blackout would have been prevented. As a result of the blackout investigation, compliance to international standards is now a mandatory requirement for all North American utilities.
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should add that although i said just the power companies, i should've been more clear.....whoever owns the cables/wires
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You would think that power companies would be geared up to deal with trees that are near power cables :old:
The most common problem seems to be trees
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The link below is self refreshing; cosmic rays are off chart again :headscra
(http://) http://www.bartol.udel.edu/~takao/test_frac.html
The Earth was hit by a CME in last 24 hours also, but was weak;http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/rt_plots/kp_3d.html
If you look at the time of the 1st grid failure from your link ;
02:48, 30 July 2012 (+05:30)-
20:30, 31 July 2012 (+05:30)
India Standard time zone: UTC/GMT +5:30 hours;
here in a link University of Delaware,in UTC time http://neutronm.bartol.udel.edu/spaceweather/welcome.html
space weather monitoring showing the cosmic rays density; This cosmic rays charts are not monitoring the activity from the Sun;
See the chart from 15;00 UTC to 24:00 UTC july 29th some kind of strong EMP from deep space hit the Earth, about same time with first grid failure in India ;
(http://www.bartol.udel.edu/~takao/fig/GraphFrac.png)