Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: eagl on March 03, 2001, 10:45:00 PM
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Hallo all,
As much as I liked the center island in the previous terrain, I dislike the current terrain. It's clearly a step away from a furballer's idea of a good time. The biggest drawback - There's no place to have a three-sided air battle.
I'll see you guys in the arena when the terrain switches back. I'm honestly heartbroken to see this happen and I hate wasting my money to just hold my ident until the terrain rotates, but hell I'd pay double the current fee for a decent place to furball.
Me thog, me want 10v10v10 air battle within 5 min flying time without ostwinds nearby. Me no find that in Aces High, thog go outside and throw rocks at dogs instead, cheaper and more action.
Bummer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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Is it that bad?
Surely not. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Good point and Agreed Eagl!
This terrain just plain blows as far as Im concerned.
Yeager
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squeak-squeak-squeak
Download the terrain editor and build a better one then. 8^)
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Download the terrain editor and build a better one then. 8^)
funny you mention that, cause its been done..SEVERAL times.. There are at least 5 AWSOME maps that have been made and offered to HTC to use but insted we have.....the Uterus (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I kinda like the map. I dont understand why everyone dislike it so much. I know it looks kinda funny, but I sure like the action. To each his own I guess. I wasnt really a big fan of the last map, but suppose it was apropriate due to the release of ships. Sure would like to see a user map sometime though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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i think the same!
jihad even if i did it would never make it to the ma. i've seen some great work already out.
RWY out !
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Yes I do miss the previous terrain too. Now we are back to altitude monkies. At least the carriers brought people down to sea level. I would like to see the pacific terrain with just a little mroe land mass. That would be perfect.
fscott
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There are some h2h maps that blow my mind!
This new map is the ugliest i have ever seen.
Nuttz is the man!
EYE
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One good thing from this map - I relearned tonite how cool it can be to help newbies in the training arena (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I helped one guy figure out how to take off in a bomber while I was in the middle of the gentleman's FFA going on at A22. It was pretty fun, people were mostly behaving themselves except for the occasional misunderstanding.
I musta gotten 30+ kills in one hour, now THAT's fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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I would like to see the lake filled in partially and vehicle fields added. You can toss the fleet with this map and I doubt it would be missed.
I haven't had a problem finding furballs to feed off of. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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"funny you mention that, cause its been done..SEVERAL times.. There are at least 5 AWSOME maps that have been made and offered to HTC to use but insted we have.....the Uterus (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)"
You got me scratching my head as well.
The players get tools, contribute using those tools, and the Uterus gets put into action.
o.....k
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Funny, I thought the last map looked like a 10 year old did it in half an hour.......did a 5 year old take 10 minutes on this one?
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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This new map is MUCH better.
No cowardly chog hordes hiding in fleet ack. Actually <gasp> ground war back!
No anti LW terrain oriented around floating pieces of crap laser guided über mobile ack stations.
I'll take hangar destroying ostwinds to CV's any day (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Thanks for new terrain!
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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Has anyone actually considered just how difficult it is to playtest a map for 200 players?
This map's got plenty of elements I like - the fields in the middle of the lake allow captures in the middle of enemy territory, the deeper behind enemy lines you go the larger the fields become (or so it has seemed to me) and there's actually vehicle combat for once. Stop whining and suggest improvements and how they'd be implemented, don't think map designing's an easy task.
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Originally posted by sky_bax:
The players get tools, contribute using those tools, and the Uterus gets put into action.
o.....k
Duma......what Sky_bax said.
Explain to me why HTC would bring out a map that people are just gonna take the p*ss out of. I mean they aint stupid, they surely can SEE the map looks like a uterus. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif). I mean why man, why? Oh the humanity. Wont somebody PLEASE think of the children.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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MA map designing and building is *not* an easy task and it takes nowhere close to 5 or 10 minutes. Try it yourself and then come back talking smack against any map we have ever seen.
As soon as one of the talented player builders can come up with a map that will work in the MA then we'll probably see that map. I didn't say that, it's a paraphase from HTC itself. Yea, the player-built maps are cool. Obviously they are not MA maps.
Fury
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They already said, NO ONE made and submitted a MA type of map.
They were all huge: Med, Luzom, etc. or great looking but simple H2H furball pits.
And to why Nuttz left is best for Nuttz or Natedog to discuss or say. There's two sided to every story. Speculation from the peanut gallery only muddles that picture.
Don't forget folks, quick and successive versions of AH made what terrains they made incompable with the MA before they could be used too.
And, once again. They said NO ONE submitted a balanced MA terrain to them. Keep in mind what you might think is furballing fun might be a sTRAGEDY guys nightmare and a sTRAGEDY guys fun could be a furballers horror.
This map? ugly? Who cares. Historical? Who cares. It's the MA and it's well balanced.
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-04-2001).]
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I like this map better than the last
Eagler
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I have no problem with the new map. Or any map really.
What I have a problem with ARE THE SAME SKINS MAP AFTER MAP!
And that's honestly something that wouldn't take half as much time as actually creating the map (well implementation of player skins)
I'm tired of looking at the same old grass, tree and farm tiles.
Maps be damned, there's been alot of work on skins...to the point where you could have a skin rotation every reset with a little work.
A little variety would go a LONG way, don't ya think?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Bess
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Oh well. We get cloud banks in 1.06 anyway, that'll make it allllllll better.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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There's a lot of difference between a terrain and a terrain for the main. A small terrain with a dozen fields isn't what we're looking for. They may be great for H2H or great for events but this is a different animal. 10bears and other have some really cool scenario terrains that will be coming online shortly, but that's what they are- scenario terrains.
I even contacted Verm asking if we could scale down his Med and rework the field layouts for a main and he said go for it. We scaled it down to 250 miles across but couldn't come up with a field layout that would work for this.
I said this earlier but I think it got lost when the board crashed. If anybody is interested in ideas for main arena terrains, you don't need to make the terrain, just show us a map. Either find a real geographical location that would work or draw one up yourself. Mark how you think the countries and fields should be laid out. If it works, we'll make it.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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eagl... i agree wholeheatedly. It is not a map for fighters or for Navy planes. If you like bombers or p51's you will probly be a cheerleader but most of us like fighters.
It would not be such a bad map tho if the field closure/ fighter hanger closure was not so easy and unrealistic. A map like this really points out the flaws and sillines of the (choke) "strat" we have.
eagl... I log on and if there is no action or fields close to the action... I just log back off. A good fight in this terrain lasts about 5-10 minutes till the attention starved notice it, kill a building and stop it. Really dumb strat.... really dumb bombing accuracy.... really dumb gameplay.
lazs
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voss said..... "I haven't had a problem finding furballs to feed off of"
Nooooo.... but, I guess it a matter of personal taste. If "feeding" means 6 kills in seven and a half HOURS on line then.... I would say that your idea of "feeding" is slightly different than most folks.
some of us like just a tad more action.
lazs
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I like the new map. The gameplay sorta reminds me of Mage's second Big Pac map, only land based and not ridiculously huge.
I only wish there was a furball island stuck right in the middle of it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
anRky
-Ih8ubb
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never mind-
[This message has been edited by mrfish (edited 03-04-2001).]
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I think that the new map and the old one are about equal. The new map might even be better, since it heavily restricts the offshore CV camping and doesn't have critical strategic targets spread out in the open.
If anything, the furballing is more intense than in previous maps - you don't have to fly 50 miles overwater, and there aren't as many different ways to reach the enemy territory, meaning that most of the aircraft are funneled through the choke points.
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I like the new map. I agree looked at complete it ain't pretty but I like the fact that when the war begins there are some form of boundaries(Mountains) between the sides. I think the way the ground battles have re appeared is great to. It does unfortunately seem to dumb down the fleets effectivness. If I could make a change it would be to make the map bigger (By about 25 miles per side and place water between the countries with the exception of a small strip joining them at the maps edge This would bring the fleet back into play and still allow a way through for the ground vehicles right from "The off". The ports should be located next to the joining strip so fleets would start only 25 miles apart (So people could still have their fleet battles)
Just my 2c worth
TTFN
sanfu
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No, me Thog. You not Thog. Thog not bird-who-eats-rats, Thog be Thog. You not be Thog.
Take Thog name in vain... what would rock think?
Thog
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I really don't understand how you guys are not finding fights here. I log on, look for biggest red bar, take off that base, fight constantly until my hand hurts and log off.
Seems like I've already had more dogfights on this map than last tour, plus I get to divebomb vehicles again.
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This was a MA map i was working on ( yes i've flown it it)
It's very hard to make a MA map that is well balanced for 3 teams in a square. Considering many variables, captured feilds,HQ,defensive, offensive, it is really hard. And after your done it resembles body parts (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Well here is one that i WAS working on and it resembles the New MA but has a twist. I have this set for 256x256 miles and have it in greyscale. Some coastal edges need to be widened for CV access ( was waiting for HTC to address Land/water properties) Any mapmakers ( or HTC ) Want this greyscale, Email me and i'll send it.
(http://www.graphixone.net/images/MA.jpg)
NUTTZ
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Nice layout Nuttz, but such separation makes the arena almost totally dependant on CV's. It would be Fleet Flak gallore & Chog waves & n1k defense of fields all the time. In short, like the previous MA map. Also, I dont see ground war possibility there.
I love your other terrains! Use them in H2H a lot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
"If anybody is interested in ideas for main arena terrains, you don't need to make the terrain, just show us a map. Either find a real geographical location that would work or draw one up yourself. Mark how you think the countries and fields should be laid out. If it works, we'll make it."
Yes SIR PYRO! I will (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
*gets out his crayons and gets to work*
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I'm actually getting to like the new map. As you move around a bit you find there is a lot more variety in it than at firat appears.
Also the fields are more spread and and it brings a the fight up to a more realistic altitude (OK, not much, but some). Bagged a couple of 190s above 20,000' in my Yak yesterday, much more interesting that playing 'dodge the looming ground' all the time =)
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Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
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That's amazing,
It's been a decade since we saw a very simular map for AW. It was a good'n then, it will be just as popular with furballers now, imo. What blows me away is the good pilots asking for a pure furball arena. 30 kills per hour or bust, heheh. 8 player H2H would do a better job of insuring that kind'a fight. But I gotta admit, if your only into bombing out other player's bases, it ain't gonna make ya any friends.
I would love to see HTC take a campaign and offer two main arenas. One, a pure dogfight map with air-starts and no strat to get in the way. The second, a small, tight, strat arena for an air/ground battle. Vehicle bases along the front, and airfields farther back. This might focus the fight on the front, rather than hi-alt airbase ruining solo buff missions. Then we'd finally know which was more fun, strat ot dogfighting?
Braz
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I'll build one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Brazos, I don't see any reason to have terrain in HTH. Maybe, a field for people to rearm at, but even that is redundant to furballers. The host should have alt and spread controls, of course, but for terrain water is cool. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Tac, I see your point. Thats why the P feilds are far from each other, You'll really need to plan ahead, it's a long trip to the enemy island, but not impossible ( thus, less relying on the CV's). The water ways in, have cliffs so the CV's can't pound a feild into submission with it's 8 inchers, Possible, but only with spotters. ( much easier to defend once enemy is on your homeland) I never was much of an ETO fan, my heart always was with PAC type terrains. My first PAC map had 3 different land masses. But theres always the problem child that will claim his/her land mass is weaker, kinda like the lower right land mass in the old MA, That always seamed to be the "losers" HQ.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Tac:
Nice layout Nuttz, but such separation makes the arena almost totally dependant on CV's. It would be Fleet Flak gallore & Chog waves & n1k defense of fields all the time. In short, like the previous MA map. Also, I dont see ground war possibility there.
I love your other terrains! Use them in H2H a lot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
"If anybody is interested in ideas for main arena terrains, you don't need to make the terrain, just show us a map. Either find a real geographical location that would work or draw one up yourself. Mark how you think the countries and fields should be laid out. If it works, we'll make it."
Yes SIR PYRO! I will (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
*gets out his crayons and gets to work*
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It's not that I can't find fights... The new arena makes it easy to find fights. There's just 2 things wrong:
1) The fields are far enough apart that it takes a long time to get to the fight. Easy to find, too far away.
2) The arena setup makes it nearly impossible to find a 3-sided fight. One side has to be nearly completely destroyed before you find a spot on the map with 3 sides all involved in one fight.
This arena would be nearly perfect if I gave a hoot about field capture. Since I don't, it represents a step backwards in enjoyment for me. I'm not slamming Pyro and HTC since they obviously know something about game and player dynamics that I don't. Otherwise they wouldn't consistently set up the arena to discourage shorter fight distances and multi-sided fights.
I've got other things I can do, and they're still getting my money even when I don't fly much so it's not like HTC is losing anything with this terrain. The training arena is still using the old terrain, so that's a better place to hang out and see if anyone wants any furball training.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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Looking at Nuttz' map has me wondering about more inshore waterways. Too small for fleets but possible for PT boats. Also close VHs but destroyable bridges to prevent them mounting offensives.
[This message has been edited by Fatty (edited 03-04-2001).]
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Sometimes I think PAINT is the only tool in windows that is actually worth having (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://www.crosswinds.net/~wraithfleethq/newmap.jpg)
To see the map with a grid on it (10X10 grid with roughly the same dimensions as the current MA map.. I hope)
www.crosswinds.net/~wraithfleethq/newmapwithgrid.jpg (http://www.crosswinds.net/~wraithfleethq/newmapwithgrid.jpg)
Edited: Sorry about the crappy white static on the grid map, stupid paint program cant overlay stuff *grin*
Antyone offended by this artless finger painting has all the right to be. I cant draw a stick man, let alone a map (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 03-04-2001).]
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Country 3 is isolated therefore at an advantage defensively
SKurj
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cc, perhaps add more mini-bases in little islands near country 3. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Country 3 is isolated therefore at an advantage defensively
Yes, but its also at an offensive disadvantage aswell so that makes up for its defensive advantage 1+ -1= 0 so it doesent have any REAL advantage.
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Nope, I changed my mind.
I spent, I'd say, 95% of my time tonight flying to the fight, and maybe 2% chasing people who didn't want to fight.
I ended up getting bored, and shooting every friendly Lanc I saw, just for what little fun I could find tonight.
A big thumbs down for the current map.
anRky
-Ih8ubb, but arena play sucks worse!
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btw, I hope that naval transports and landing craft be avaliable for this map.
The idea on that map is to have force concentrated on fronts (aka, North "no mans land" and the lower right and lower left sides) instead of base hopping and undercutting like in the old and current map. The 3 small islands surrounding furball island would serve as foward bases each team would literally NEED to take in order to hop to lower island (and top small island with LARGE base belonging to country 3 would allow country 3 to be a pain in the bellybutton for country 1 and 2).
Country 3 has 2 fleets vs the other nation's 1 fleet due to their isolation (and ports are way down there), while country 1 and 2 have more airfields to work with/more land to defend.
Thnx for feeback, I just wish I could do this in the terrain editor (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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I have to say I was disapointed when I logged on and saw the current Map for the first time. I don't like it either.
ts
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Don't particularly have anything against the Layout (Like Voss said, you have a choice still : you'll easily find a Furball OR an empty field to sneak into...).
What I don't like about it are the HUGE plains... pretty boring to the eye...too flat. bit more hills would have been nice there, but oh well, I'll take it, as long as it leads to my TA 152, I won't have the possibility to look at the ground textures from 50K up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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MASS/SAW
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/fw190fp.gif) (http://eismeer.port5.com/)
click HERE (http://eismeer.port5.com/) for info on III./JG 5 Eismeer
When I was younger I hated going to weddings.
It seemed that all of my aunts and the grandmotherly types used to come up to me, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next."
They stopped that stuff after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-05-2001).]
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Just move the three center islands closer together.
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You see, alittle communication can go along way, Instead of whining in this thread, your offering suggestions with each other and building a good map. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
NUTTZ
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I'm not even sure it's so much the current map as it is the way that fields are (choke) dissabled.... Eagl has a point... there is no three sided war and most of the fields are too far apart but....
The reason some find plenty of fights and others log off in sissgust is.. There are close fields. If no one hits the fighter hanger then all is well... lots of fights. If some attention starved strat potato kills the fighter hanger at even two fields.... Ther are no fights for many sectors. The bish seem to believe this is a really great plane and do it the most it seems. completly undamaged field but you can't take off because two building are down??? That is the main problem. No amount of "furball islands" or close fields are immune to being ruined by a couple of buff jocks with more time on their hands than life.
lazs
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Originally posted by Saintaw:
What I don't like about it are the HUGE plains... pretty boring to the eye...too flat.
Like Belgium ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Muahahaha (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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wonder what HTC thinks about my finger painting (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)