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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Rob52240 on August 13, 2012, 02:47:48 AM

Title: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Rob52240 on August 13, 2012, 02:47:48 AM
I had my e6b open while flying bombers and wondered,

does autopilot utilize separate PID loops to self adjust the controls?
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Skuzzy on August 13, 2012, 08:59:06 AM
What is a "PID" loop?
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Rob52240 on August 13, 2012, 12:11:16 PM
Proportional, Integral and Derivative

It's what most mechanical control systems run on.

Depending on how far from setpoint something is, it reacts proportionally, integral refers to how fast it reacts and nobody really uses the derivative but it determines how much to factor in past performance.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/PID_en.svg/800px-PID_en.svg.png)

From wikipedia
The response of the controller can be described in terms of the responsiveness of the controller to an error, the degree to which the controller overshoots the setpoint and the degree of system oscillation.
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Skuzzy on August 13, 2012, 01:29:55 PM
I am familiar with that, but I also know PID to mean;

Parent In Distress (its a parent thing)
Parent ID (its a server thing)
Poop Is Deep (do I need to explain?)
Premenstrual Indecision Disorder (ever been married?)

Now that we have that cleared up.

I have no idea how the EB6 works in the game.
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Rob52240 on August 13, 2012, 01:32:28 PM
Actually I was asking about the autopilot / combat trim but it's ok.  I'm no longer curious.

<S>
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Shamus on August 13, 2012, 03:12:25 PM
 :rofl
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: RTHolmes on August 13, 2012, 03:24:04 PM
Quote from: Rob52240 on August 13, 2012, 02:47:48 AM
[what is the algorithm for the autopilot in AH?]

very unlikely HT is going to post the pseudocode for this, but nowhere near as complex as most industrial PID model controllers would be my guess, given its behaviour and the cycles needed for important aero stuff.

surely using more than one PID for a single process would result in them fighting each other? :headscratch:



(as a friend of the penguin my first thought was Process ID ;)



edit: it could use a lil tweaking though - the 262's performance is way beyond what it can handle resulting in a sector's porpoising if you havent worked out how to finesse it. in other aircraft it would be good for noobs if it went level up to climb speed, then started climbing. I see new guys all the time lift, turn, get to 1000' then hit autoclimb and auger :uhoh
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Peyton on August 15, 2012, 11:33:59 PM
Quote from: Skuzzy on August 13, 2012, 01:29:55 PM
I am familiar with that, but I also know PID to mean;

Parent In Distress (its a parent thing)
Parent ID (its a server thing)
Poop Is Deep (do I need to explain?)
Premenstrual Indecision Disorder (ever been married?)

Now that we have that cleared up.

I have no idea how the EB6 works in the game.



you forgot Pelvic Inflamatory Disease
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: amulford on August 30, 2012, 04:18:24 PM
Really?  A PID?  At the very least you would need to go more on the lines of a PLC.  A multi channel PID doesn't do multi variable comparatives and sum them for multiple output response.  
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Rob52240 on August 30, 2012, 07:53:29 PM
3 PIDS could run the plane's control surfaces.
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: JimmyD3 on August 30, 2012, 08:30:34 PM
Yeah throw a Low Signal Selector or High Signal Selector in there and you could Really have some fun. Woodward Governor use to use a Signal Buss on there multi channel 43027 systems ( back in the 80'S)  :O
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: DaCoon on August 30, 2012, 10:10:28 PM
Quote from: Skuzzy on August 13, 2012, 01:29:55 PM
I am familiar with that, but I also know PID to mean;

Parent In Distress (its a parent thing)
Parent ID (its a server thing)
Poop Is Deep (do I need to explain?)
Premenstrual Indecision Disorder (ever been married?)

Now that we have that cleared up.

I have no idea how the EB6 works in the game.

definately know 1,3,&4 real well.............
#1= :bhead

#2= :x

#3= :bolt:
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: kvuo75 on September 01, 2012, 07:34:46 PM
Quote from: RTHolmes on August 13, 2012, 03:24:04 PM

(as a friend of the penguin my first thought was Process ID ;)


thats exactly what thought too.    :D  I started with 1.2.13   :aok
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: titanic3 on September 02, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
Just hook up the warp drive with the matter defibrillator and anti matter drive and the whachamacallit and you're good to go.  :aok  :devil
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: hitech on September 18, 2012, 09:44:38 AM
Quote from: Rob52240 on August 13, 2012, 02:47:48 AM
I had my e6b open while flying bombers and wondered,

does autopilot utilize separate PID loops to self adjust the controls?

I come from a control engineering back ground. Yes I use PID loops for a great many controls. And they are also called that, just a little piece of a pitch controller.


The constants are just normalizing the plane specific input into a unit that is close to 1 based for most planes.


   P = 2* Plane->PlaneModel.PlaneParams.TrimP[simpTI_ANGLE].Pitch * Scale / 2;
   I = 0.04 * Plane->PlaneModel.PlaneParams.TrimI[simpTI_ANGLE].Pitch * Scale;
   D = 0.1 * Plane->PlaneModel.PlaneParams.TrimD[simpTI_ANGLE].Pitch * Scale / 2;
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Rob52240 on September 18, 2012, 12:00:10 PM
Cool.

Have you worked for Johnson or Siemens?
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: hitech on September 20, 2012, 09:26:16 AM
Yes many years ago,some also on older GE and TI equipment this is from 82-95 era most of my plc stuff was done on A&B from 2/30  plc 3 to slc-100 slc-500 was just in first generation when I changed lives and began writing games. Man even some part numbers like 800T-A2A buttons and 802 part numbers come to mind.

BTW live 460v 60amp AB rotary disconnect switches to the forehead hurt and leave blisters. And smoke testing panels some times do smoke.

I did all from complete control design relay logic on up to 2000 I.O. panels including the design,all the way up to the inventory control DB interface on unix systems. Airport baggage handling sending the bag info between airports, building, and overall project management of both the mechanical, electrical, instillation and commissioning. 90% of the work was in material handling, some on furnace heat treating systems.
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Rob52240 on September 20, 2012, 10:29:35 AM
Nice, I did building automation controls until the economy sh* the bed.  Mostly factories, colleges and hospitals.  480 hurts, 220 hurts more.  I started out with an outfit that would toss the word popsicle around when anyone complained about having to work on something live.  Then again the owner would get defensive about my opinion of his driving skills if I put buckled my seatbelt while he was driving.

I don't miss constantly being around and inside things that can kill me, although I do sometimes miss the excitement.  Once a coworker literally peed himself at my foundry account.  He was on their 40 acre roof when a crane operator turned the roof into a waveform and blew all the doors off his side of the building.

If I ever start an electronics manufacturing company, my products will contain enough smoke to fail twice.
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: hitech on September 20, 2012, 01:20:10 PM
Being around the live stuff never really bothered me. The 180 DC is the stuff that made me the most nervous, I would never go near that stuff with out locked out cab.

The one part I miss is the commissioning/installations.   I used to love crawling all around the factories looking at different equipment.
Don't miss the travel and hotels though.


HiTech
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: Rob52240 on September 20, 2012, 07:48:10 PM
Being around it never bothered me... Aside from one penthouse at one customer's foundry.  We had to climb on 14,400 volt lines to get into it.

What made me uneasy at times was being required to work on 3 phase equipment while it was live.
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: amulford on September 29, 2012, 07:10:02 AM
Quote from: Rob52240 on August 30, 2012, 07:53:29 PM
3 PIDS could run the plane's control surfaces.

Yes, they will.  I misunderstood your question, thinking you were talking of the device.  My apologies.
Title: Re: Nerd question for the coders.
Post by: MajWoody on October 16, 2012, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: hitech on September 20, 2012, 09:26:16 AM
Yes many years ago,some also on older GE and TI equipment this is from 82-95 era most of my plc stuff was done on A&B from 2/30  plc 3 to slc-100 slc-500 was just in first generation when I changed lives and began writing games. Man even some part numbers like 800T-A2A buttons and 802 part numbers come to mind.

BTW live 460v 60amp AB rotary disconnect switches to the forehead hurt and leave blisters. And smoke testing panels some times do smoke.

I did all from complete control design relay logic on up to 2000 I.O. panels including the design,all the way up to the inventory control DB interface on unix systems. Airport baggage handling sending the bag info between airports, building, and overall project management of both the mechanical, electrical, instillation and commissioning. 90% of the work was in material handling, some on furnace heat treating systems.

See rule 12











































 :D