Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: CAP1 on August 17, 2012, 11:55:36 PM
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ALCON.....
i was monitoring ch202 tonight. i saw a few pilots reporting some aircraft above their alt caps, some crossing the no-fly zone, and some continuing combat after cease fire was declared.
please if you had film running, save the clip of the offense, and pm it to me here on the bbs. if you prefer email, then pm me, and i'll shoot you my email address.
sooner would be better than later, but please get them to me, so i can dole out penalties.
thanks guys, and i hope you guys had fun overall!!
CAP
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ALCON.....
i was monitoring ch202 tonight. i saw a few pilots reporting some aircraft above their alt caps, some crossing the no-fly zone, and some continuing combat after cease fire was declared.
please if you had film running, save the clip of the offense, and pm it to me here on the bbs. if you prefer email, then pm me, and i'll shoot you my email address.
sooner would be better than later, but please get them to me, so i can dole out penalties.
thanks guys, and i hope you guys had fun overall!!
CAP
the bolded section above.,,,,,i should not have typed that. it should have said so i can confirm.
thanks all!!
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The bombers we encountered west of A55 were above 25 K! Sorry no film
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Although it was reported that the bombers at A49 were above 23K, the film does in fact show them at 23K.
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Although it was reported that the bombers at A49 were above 23K, the film does in fact show them at 23K.
Which is why film is required, so the actual data can be seen.
:salute
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Although it was reported that the bombers at A49 were above 23K, the film does in fact show them at 23K.
thank you for that sir. :aok :salute
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Dot and CAP:
Most of us honor the alt cap's. In fact I have never seen a squad intentionally plan to break them. But during the course of a fight as your rolling and turning to avoid being shot down popping through a alt cap can happen. Most folks then come back down.
I think most of us relay on your "downdraft" to prevent this. It seems to me that last night it wasn't working that well. I found myself last night after some twisting and rolling with a 109 popping out, engaging my auto pilot for flat and level flight to build back up my speed to catch back up with my bombers and the auto pilot was allowing me to fly flat and level at 28,200'. After I saw this I descended down 500' and reengaged the auto pilot.
Question: Is there a way to make the downdraft option stronger?
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Viper,
The downdraft started at 28k, and was 100mph (max setting is only 127mph). We all know that during a fight people can pop up over an alt cap. The cap of 23k was only for bombers, not fighters. Also, we aren't concerned with an occasional "oops" where some bombers are +200' of the cap (although you'd think they would pay better attention and make sure to stay within the limits.
There were reports of bombers flying fast and level at 25k+, and that is not a simple "oops".
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Dot and CAP:
In fact I have never seen a squad intentionally plan to break them.
I disagree with you on this one. In frame two there was a formation of dots above our squad that was well over the cap. I checked my alt I'm at 27,900 feet. They flew directly over us and obviously didn't see us. I popped up to 28 k and got a brief Icon of a 109. We decided to not piss them off and left the area.
Is it possible to layer the down drafts starting at 28k and going up to 30 increasing the down buffet as you go? If so may that be a solution to that problem?
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I disagree with you on this one. In frame two there was a formation of dots above our squad that was well over the cap. I checked my alt I'm at 27,900 feet. They flew directly over us and obviously didn't see us. I popped up to 28 k and got a brief Icon of a 109. We decided to not piss them off and left the area.
Is it possible to layer the down drafts starting at 28k and going up to 30 increasing the down buffet as you go? If so may that be a solution to that problem?
Again, as I said before, there was no alt cap for fighters - only the bombers. As far as the downdraft, it was enabled from 28k and above. It was at 100mph, and the max the game allows is 127mph.
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The 334th had our buffs above 23k. It was my job to relay the orders and I must have missed the alt cap in the orders. when we were rtb one of my guys read the mdop or full orders and said "hey, we were supposed to be below 23k", being a bunch of fighter jocks it just slipped our minds :bhead
...sorry about that.
shamus
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DOT - Rgr that on the situation you describe of bombers at 25K.
I didn't know that the down draft had a limit of 127mph. I assumed it was adjustable to infinity given its a game. no worries.
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Whats the point of a down draft if there is no set cap? I don't get it. Is it the implication of a fighter alt cap and why do that?
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Whats the point of a down draft if there is no set cap? I don't get it. Is it the implication of a fighter alt cap and why do that?
if you go back, and read the set up, there is a alt cap for fighters. it was set at 28k. that is why the downdraft.
viper.......when you mentioned the alt to me, i climbed to 28.5, and tried to set auto pilot. it buffeted me down to 28k, then the auto pilot worked ok.
shamus......how high were you guys?
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if you go back, and read the set up, there is a alt cap for fighters. it was set at 28k. that is why the downdraft.
:headscratch:
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:headscratch:
PERHAPS A RE-PHRASE......
it states downdraft at 28k. that would insinuate a alt cap, wouldn't it/?
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What about 25k for bombers, all the way through the bomb run? Is that penalty-worthy?
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:headscratch:
,
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What about 25k for bombers, all the way through the bomb run? Is that penalty-worthy?
got film?
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got film?
Of course I do, but you didnt answer my question sir.
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got film?
Why do we need film Cap...when Shamus already stated they made an honest error. I was there...with Doo...the buffs were over 25K. No doubt about it, everyone there on both sides saw it. Just saying.
Infractions/scores...the heck with all that crap. It's the spirit of the action, and how all members approach it, that matters. Without the long standing level of integrity shown by the squadrons in FSO, it becomes just another MA melee.
I think the CO's here all embrace this spirit still. At least I do hope so.
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Why do we need film Cap...when Shamus already stated they made an honest error. I was there...with Doo...the buffs were over 25K. No doubt about it, everyone there on both sides saw it. Just saying.
Infractions/scores...the heck with all that crap. It's the spirit of the action, and how all members approach it, that matters. Without the long standing level of integrity shown by the squadrons in FSO, it becomes just another MA melee.
I think the CO's here all embrace this spirit still. At least I do hope so.
the score is secondary to me. the infractions are, but aren't. the co's....as shamus did.....should take responsibility. i don't want to have to subtract from anyones score.......but i will if necessary.
i appreciate the fact that it was owned up to. a LOT. something will have to be done, and will be. it will be fair. Of course I do, but you didnt answer my question sir.
it will be taken care of.
the reason for asking for film though, is due to possible errors....someone in the beginning of this thread even stated that although they reported bombers above their alt cap, that they were wrong, and the bombers were indeed within their limits.
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The problem is this Stampf. Yes, I care about score because I want to win. But, our fun factor was shattered because of this rule infraction. We could not attack and kill the bombers as proficiently as we would've had they have been 23k. This is where the score comes into play. Them being 25k probably saved them 200 points (not stretching at all).
Point is, our fun was cut short because of either ignorance or blatant rule breaking. Either way a penalty is needed and possibly a kind word to all CO's to obey the rules as best they can. I am complaining but I am not being hostile. Just sucks for your fun to be spoiled because of others' stupidity or mischievous behavior. That happened twice to KN this month.
I havent even mentioned my feelings about the no fly zone yet haha. :noid
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The problem is this Stampf. Yes, I care about score because I want to win. But, our fun factor was shattered because of this rule infraction. We could not attack and kill the bombers as proficiently as we would've had they have been 23k. This is where the score comes into play. Them being 25k probably saved them 200 points (not stretching at all).
Point is, our fun was cut short because of either ignorance or blatant rule breaking. Either way a penalty is needed and possibly a kind word to all CO's to obey the rules as best they can. I am complaining but I am not being hostile. Just sucks for your fun to be spoiled because of others' stupidity or mischievous behavior. That happened twice to KN this month.
I havent even mentioned my feelings about the no fly zone yet haha. :noid
The winning/losing part to me...is just the outcome of how we conduct our business up there, too me.
Last night sucked...I couldn't even get my nose up on the bombers. So I hear you. Also the early, early attacks and then high tailing it to the 8 line was not cool at all in my opinion. Never could get to or catch the bombers. The only bombers we killed were after rearm and we had to fly 75 -100 miles north to get to them. So we are eye to eye...no worries there. When its not fun anymore...the game will end.
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The problem is this Stampf. Yes, I care about score because I want to win. But, our fun factor was shattered because of this rule infraction. We could not attack and kill the bombers as proficiently as we would've had they have been 23k. This is where the score comes into play. Them being 25k probably saved them 200 points (not stretching at all).
Point is, our fun was cut short because of either ignorance or blatant rule breaking. Either way a penalty is needed and possibly a kind word to all CO's to obey the rules as best they can. I am complaining but I am not being hostile. Just sucks for your fun to be spoiled because of others' stupidity or mischievous behavior. That happened twice to KN this month.
I havent even mentioned my feelings about the no fly zone yet haha. :noid
IF they were 25k, you still had 3k alt advantage......no reason for your fun to have been cut short. improvise, overcome, and adapt.
the no-fly zone was to simulate the fact that the fighters, and bombers in the real life mission this was modeled after wouldn't have been chased all the way home. since we don't have the time to launch from england, fly all the way to munich, and back, i improvised. The winning/losing part to me...is just the outcome of how we conduct our business up there, too me.
Last night sucked...I couldn't even get my nose up on the bombers. So I hear you. Also the early, early attacks and then high tailing it to the 8 line was not cool at all in my opinion. Never could get to or catch the bombers. The only bombers we killed were after rearm and we had to fly 75 -100 miles north to get to them. So we are eye to eye...no worries there. When its not fun anymore...the game will end.
are you saying that there were buffs above 28k alt?
this will be handled. i think it's time to move on. it seems most had fun, and that's the best i can strive for. i do my best, being a noob at it, and will get better as time goes on.
EDIT***
if it was shamus's group you saw at 25k, then no film necessary. if it wasn't then i need film to back the claim, or nothing can be done please.
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are you saying that there were buffs above 28k alt?
How/where are you seeing that?
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The buffs at A49 were at 23k, they looked higher because of the 28k alt cap. So without film submitted to the CM's then it wont count as an infraction.
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How/where are you seeing that?
you said you couldn't get your nose up to the bombers. that would insinuate that they were higher than your alt cap.
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3k advantage on bombers with escorts co-alt. Not much of an advantage is it. Point is CAP, we didnt plan on them being over 23k which by the way happened to be a rule.
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you said you couldn't get your nose up to the bombers. that would insinuate that they were higher than your alt cap.
Without a long explanation...what Doo said covers it. A flight of 28k A-8's is nothing but a tasty treat to a flight of 28K Lightnings. Your only defense is speed. To get speed, you must trade alt. When there is not enough alt between the escorts (well flown last night), and the buffs...well...you end up trying to recover back to the buffs at best.
EDIT: Something you Cap...posted above...I meant to comment on. Nothing from my point of view is a reflection on, or jab at your role as Event Designer. Simply comments on the actions we encountered. In no way should you take anything as an attack on you or your role as CM.
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We certainly didn't plan on fighters being over 28k either with the "implied alt cap" with no real alt cap so honestly this is getting ridiculous. Okay bombers were at 25k vrs 23k I'm sure that made a big diff to the 109s at 30k.
Oh and implying a alt cap with a down draft and not actually enforcing a alt cap is just plain lazy, or gamier as hell.
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shamus......how high were you guys?
I dont know for sure Cap, we leveled at 24k when we made our run east. We were all trying to calibrate for two sectors before the drop so we were all spread out and at different alts.
shamus
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Infractions/scores...the heck with all that crap. It's the spirit of the action, and how all members approach it, that matters. Without the long standing level of integrity shown by the squadrons in FSO, it becomes just another MA melee.
I think the CO's here all embrace this spirit still. At least I do hope so.
This is why I've always loved you Stampf..........and always will! :aok :D
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Okay bombers were at 25k vrs 23k I'm sure that made a big diff to the 109s at 30k.
Try 27.5K for the 109s. We couldnt go above 28K, Genius.
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We certainly didn't plan on fighters being over 28k either with the "implied alt cap" with no real alt cap so honestly this is getting ridiculous. Okay bombers were at 25k vrs 23k I'm sure that made a big diff to the 109s at 30k.
Oh and implying a alt cap with a down draft and not actually enforcing a alt cap is just plain lazy, or gamier as hell.
Uhh, no plane could get above 28k due to the downdraft.
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Try 27.5K for the 109s. We couldn't go above 28K, Genius.
Maybe you couldn't you condescending ass. But if you will look through these post you will see how its done which I'm quite confident more than one veteran squad knows about.
Also I don't really like being called a liar by a jerkoff on a computer who has a bad case of butthurtidus. Ya need to watch your mouth "genius" ya never know who your fin with.
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:rofl
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Maybe you couldn't you condescending ass.
Judging by you're privoius posts in this thread, it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?
Also I don't really like being called a liar...
Seems that slipper fits you well, Princess.
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This is why I've always loved you Stampf..........and always will! :aok :D
You're a good man, Dantoo, and a great friend or foeman. Always have been. <Smooch> :D
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Judging by you're privoius posts in this thread, it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?
Seems that slipper fits you well, Princess.
No I don't think it is "genius" read the whole thread.
I stated what was witnessed by me and my small squad in FSO in frame2. I also proposed a solution to both complaints of the axis and the Allies.
Haven't seen anything out of you or your squaddies that was anything other than butthurtidus.
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Didnt take you as the "Boney" sort surfinn. Pity.
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the bombers might have been a bit high, but that didn't stop us from shooting down 4 of them and an escort. they was just swinging in the breeze and we whacked them hard. we just wanted to pre-tenderize them for JG11. dont know why everyone's got their panties all twisted up, i had fun, so did my squaddies. thats all that counts! if they were a bit high, im sure it was an honest mistake and they paid dearly for it anyway. so wheres the problem? for all the screaming in here, its pretty sad when even i get a kill. some alt advantage, we just marched right in and whacked them. carry on! :salute
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butthurtidus.
If there were such a thing, I believe the proper spelling would be "butt-hurt-itis" whereas,
-itis
(pathology) Suffix denoting diseases characterized by inflammation, itself often caused by an infection.
(humorous) Used to form the names of various fictitious afflictions or diseases.
Obviously, you're not a golfer.
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:rofl Ty Ten I stand corrected in my spelling error.
To the kommandos
You guys are one of, if not the best squad in FSO as far as kills go.
Everytime things do not go your way, you have something to say about it. If it does go your way you post pictures with bragging.
It would really be nice to see you guys post a wtg to the squad that got in your way. Or a well fought post to a squad you beat. it would cost you nothing and go a long way.
This whole thing of the bombers were over this alt, so woo is me is not what I would expect out of one of the best squads in FSO.
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:rofl Ty Ten I stand corrected in my spelling error.
To the kommandos
You guys are one of, if not the best squad in FSO as far as kills go.
Everytime things do not go your way, you have something to say about it. If it does go your way you post pictures with bragging.
It would really be nice to see you guys post a wtg to the squad that got in your way. Or a well fought post to a squad you beat. it would cost you nothing and go a long way.
This whole thing of the bombers were over this alt, so woo is me is not what I would expect out of one of the best squads in FSO.
We are vocal about things we see as not being right. Now we are not the only people to think some of these things but not everyone is willing to put themselves out there for a potential public bashing. I do not remember many "bragging posts" except when we got 1000 kills which was a bit of self serving propaganda sue us.
We are not the only ones who noticed the rule violation. As for posting <S> to other squad we just don't do that stuff. For one it could be looked at as bragging or throwing it in their faces which is something we don't want to do(often see above).
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You hear us complain alot, yes. But it is only when we see potential problems with a setup, or in this case, a rule violation. I have nothing more to say really.
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Over alt cap or not I think I speak for most if not all JG-11, Friday night was one of the toughest most drawn out fights and chases we've had in a long time. We had a blast! :banana:
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Over alt cap or not I think I speak for most if not all JG-11, Friday night was one of the toughest most drawn out fights and chases we've had in a long time. We had a blast! :banana:
It was indeed difficult. Luftwaffe needs a good challenge sometimes. Can get boring up there.
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You hear us complain allot, yes. But it is only when we see potential problems with a setup, or in this case, a rule violation. I have nothing more to say really.
Rule violations happen both intentionally and unintentionally. Again to compliment your squad you guys are hard to fight. Me and my wing man fought several of you guys late in the frame several frames ago and got our butts kicked. If not for the negative post we saw out of you guys we would have been happy to say well fought. As good as you guys are it wouldn't hurt ya to be nice. :salute
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I would like to :salute all the squads for mixing it up in the air. FATE has good nights, FATE has bad nights. I had a power surge just as we engaged the B24s attacking the radar factory and :furious discod :furious :furious. By the rule I couldn't re-up even though the fields were not closed yet for discos. I stayed for about 20 min calling out radar contacts before I went offline.
I always try to take all the rules to heart as I think the integrity of our squad is paramount to any victories we gain by any other means. I put us at the edge of the no-fly-zone and I pray none of us strayed over. :O
Thank you CMs for all your work in trying to get it right for everybody and to the CiCs who put the plans together and to all of us who try to make it work. :rock It's easy to get frustrated when things don't work like you want them to, but it's freekin awesome when they do! :banana:
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I would like to :salute all the squads for mixing it up in the air. FATE has good nights, FATE has bad nights. I had a power surge just as we engaged the B24s attacking the radar factory and :furious discod :furious :furious. By the rule I couldn't re-up even though the fields were not closed yet for discos. I stayed for about 20 min calling out radar contacts before I went offline.
I always try to take all the rules to heart as I think the integrity of our squad is paramount to any victories we gain by any other means. I put us at the edge of the no-fly-zone and I pray none of us strayed over. :O
Thank you CMs for all your work in trying to get it right for everybody and to the CiCs who put the plans together and to all of us who try to make it work. :rock It's easy to get frustrated when things don't work like you want them to, but it's freekin awesome when they do! :banana:
:aok Well said.
:salute
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We had a blast! :banana:
Oh yeah. :aok
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Same here man that was a fun set up any way you look at it. :cheers: :aok
Oh and huge <S> to the AKs Frame two they totally annihilated the bombers we were protecting with those nasty 410s of theirs. Most of them survived to make it home. Frame 3 wow as soon as they got withing d400 of our b24s we were protecting, the formation looked like one big fire ball. Less of them made it home that time but we had a lot more fighters and they still gave better than they got. :salute AKs well fought sirs.
(side note to Kommandos see its not so hard :neener:)
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That was frame 3. Though I don't think a single plane made it back to base. We got torn to pieces by P51's.
:salute
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:rofl Ty Ten I stand corrected in my spelling error.
To the kommandos
You guys are one of, if not the best squad in FSO as far as kills go.
Everytime things do not go your way, you have something to say about it. If it does go your way you post pictures with bragging.
It would really be nice to see you guys post a wtg to the squad that got in your way. Or a well fought post to a squad you beat. it would cost you nothing and go a long way.
This whole thing of the bombers were over this alt, so woo is me is not what I would expect out of one of the best squads in FSO.
I have!!!!!!!!!!!
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Maybe you couldn't you condescending ass. But if you will look through these post you will see how its done which I'm quite confident more than one veteran squad knows about.
Also I don't really like being called a liar by a jerkoff on a computer who has a bad case of butthurtidus. Ya need to watch your mouth "genius" ya never know who your fin with.
[/quote
Really threats via computer? Now if you were to live down here in FL or plan to come down here look me up!!!!
Look there is a simple way to avoid all this FOLLOW THE RULES!!!!! Don't you think all this name calling is a little childish, and where does it get you? Pissing off the one person you REALLY don't want to piss off---ME!!!! If you want to know why come to Cocoa Beach Fl at the WaffleHouse on beachside to find out I'm there everyday around 1:30 to 3:00 pm except Mondays or Tuesdays. I pick my wife up from there everyday. She works there. :furious
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Really threats via computer? Now if you were to live down here in FL or plan to come down here look me up!!!!
Look there is a simple way to avoid all this FOLLOW THE RULES!!!!! Don't you think all this name calling is a little childish, and where does it get you? Pissing off the one person you REALLY don't want to piss off---ME!!!! If you want to know why come to Cocoa Beach Fl at the WaffleHouse on beachside to find out I'm there everyday around 1:30 to 3:00 pm except Mondays or Tuesdays. I pick my wife up from there everyday. She works there. :furious
Easy there big guy. I lost my head dealing with Surffinn. I didn't realize he was talking about frame 2, not 3. I was still mad about the post cease fire shootdown. There's no need to continue the verbal battering. There was no need to start it in the first place. Although, it's good to know you have my back. :salute
Surffinn, sorry for starting the purse fight. It was uncalled for. :cheers:
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I'm sorry surfinn, it just annoys me everytime I see someone "cuss" someone on 200 in the MA or in the forums. While I may not have cussed I bullied which is just as bad. For that I am sorry. :salute
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JUst a quick note for those that like to be billy badarse on the bbs, 'cause they feel safe due to distance. you may wanna look around. more than likely you've got members living/working much closer to you than you might imagine.
a for instance......pipz works less than 2 miles from my shop, and lives less than 10 miles from my home. i think that in a 50 mile radius, there's at least a half dozen members.
also, it's pretty darn rude.
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My fault for taking it a step further and not taking the high ground. It hit a nerve with me and I don't know how to keep my mouth shut when I'm pissed. No hard feelings to both of you :salute :cheers: Sorry for my part in the disagreement.
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Maybe you couldn't you condescending ass. But if you will look through these post you will see how its done which I'm quite confident more than one veteran squad knows about.
Also I don't really like being called a liar by a jerkoff on a computer who has a bad case of butthurtidus. Ya need to watch your mouth "genius" ya never know who your fin with.
[/quote
Really threats via computer? Now if you were to live down here in FL or plan to come down here look me up!!!!
Look there is a simple way to avoid all this FOLLOW THE RULES!!!!! Don't you think all this name calling is a little childish, and where does it get you? Pissing off the one person you REALLY don't want to piss off---ME!!!! If you want to know why come to Cocoa Beach Fl at the WaffleHouse on beachside to find out I'm there everyday around 1:30 to 3:00 pm except Mondays or Tuesdays. I pick my wife up from there everyday. She works there. :furious
I wish my wife worked at a Waffle House. :cry
Breakfast any time of day :rock
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So CAP, is there a reason why the Allies were not given a penalty? If no penalty then I assume they didnt break a rule (but they did). If they indeed broke a rule but were not given a penalty, who is to stop them from breaking more rules? I mean, that is the CM's job right?
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Lol VonMessa, yea it's great. I love my WaffleHouse coffe, and it's FREE to me :banana: :devil
Surfinn, again I'm sorry, I get to hotheaded also :salute